Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #14

[NJSleuth91]

I think when most of us think of someone who is homeless, we think of someone literally living on the street. But I don't think his situation of living in a van and having a job and apparently some disposable income to buy things for his son is necessarily unusual. I know of people who live in their vehicles and work. They are certainly homeless, but they're always clean and their clothing, though not fancy, looks nice. I don't know the full story behind why he has been living in a van for a couple of years, but I wonder if he doesn't make enough to cover rent, but his income, without that concern, is okay for meeting his other needs.

It does make me wonder if this is one reason he is willing to keep doing interviews. I know someone mentioned that 60 Minutes Australia pays for exclusives. If true, that decision might have been somewhat pragmatic on his part.

All MOO.

I read once that in NYC, about 40% of homeless people have jobs. The rent is just too high. From what you guys posted it sounds like Vancouver Island is almost as expensive as, say, the NJ suburbs. Also if Bryer's dad had a criminal record or bad credit it could make it difficult for him to find a place. My hope is that at least the vulture reporter will pay him enough to get a more stable living situation and mental health care.

2. Looks like airsofts are the 'topic' this morning - what I'm surprised about is that no here has noticed or picked up on the vid clip of Bryer with the airsoft, being filmed at Kam McLeod's home property.

Yeah we did remark on the clip. I don't think it showed us much we didn't already know. We already knew that he and Kam played "survivalist games" in the woods around Kam's house, involving camouflage and airsoft guns. Plenty of people that age have the same interests and don't commit acts of violence. I'm not sure why he was wearing bright red sneakers in the clip if he was trying to be a "master of camouflage" though.

A note about BS's eye-colour changing:

Wow that's really interesting!

In the first filmed interview, he said Bryer would use voice-to-text, so it was the phone mishearing him and filling in Kim instead of Kam.

I wonder if that could indicate what his learning difficulty was? Using voice to text sounds like maybe he could have had dyslexia or something.

I know, right? It's not like parents would say "oh yeah, we totally saw the signs. They were just killers waiting to kill."

I think AS's "blaze of glory", getting killed in a shootout with police, etc comments made me think it was *close* to that, hence my original opinion about him and his son and what he knew, but he sure has toned down his rhetoric since.

I don't think he saw Bryer as a killer waiting to kill the whole time. I think he definitely knew Bryer was troubled but was unaware or in denial of the extent of it. A lot of teens are troubled and most of them don't kill innocent people. Usually parents are more concerned about suicide being a possibility as opposed to homicide. I think after the murders happened all of the signs coalesced in his mind and he was like "OMG...."

It was mentioned here that the gun laws in Canada extend to proper weapon storage as well. I wonder if that's one of the reasons why Kam's family is being so quiet: the possibility of culpability because Kam took or was given a firearm for his trip with Bryer.

From what's been said here about Canadian gun laws, they are in serious trouble if it turns out Kam took the gun from their home.

Too many comments to quote on the "were the families' reactions justified" discussion...I don't blame any of the families for any of their reactions. I can totally understand why Chynna's mom is upset that Bryer's dad went to the media like that. I don't think it's true that Bryer's dad turned Bryer into a killer, since as I said it's multi-factorial, and I also think Bryer's dad did own up to his failures as a parent. But am I going to blast a grieving mother of a murder victim for feeling that way? Of course not.

I also don't blame Kam's family for not going to the media. They are under no obligation to dance for the media circus if they want to grieve in private.

I also don't blame Bryer's family for going to the media. I think they are genuinely trying to shed insight on what may have happened. I don't think they have any bad intentions with this, to get sympathy or steal the spotlight. I have issue with the predatory way the media is treating Bryer's dad, and I don't think he has the capacity right now to fully consent to this much exposure and I don't think it's good for his mental health either.

Also I hope I was wrong in the discussion from the other day about how the RCMP might not release cause of death for Kam and Bryer. It sounds like they actually might.

 

[scrappinkat]

My assumption was also that he was communicating with the grandma by actually calling her or texting her. I found it kind of strange that he communicated with his dad through messenger. Why not texting? Maybe dad doesn’t have a phone and it using an ipad? When my son is out and about we call and text each other.

AS has a phone, we see it in interviews. Maybe it’s Bryer that doesn’t have an actual cell phone that includes his own phone number and data plan. He might just have a hand me down that’s only useful when you can connect to wi-fi. If that’s the case Messenger would be the easiest app to use for texting others.

 

[Schmoosh]

I read once that in NYC, about 40% of homeless people have jobs. The rent is just too high. From what you guys posted it sounds like Vancouver Island is almost as expensive as, say, the NJ suburbs. Also if Bryer's dad had a criminal record or bad credit it could make it difficult for him to find a place. My hope is that at least the vulture reporter will pay him enough to get a more stable living situation and mental health care.



Yeah we did remark on the clip. I don't think it showed us much we didn't already know. We already knew that he and Kam played "survivalist games" in the woods around Kam's house, involving camouflage and airsoft guns. Plenty of people that age have the same interests and don't commit acts of violence. I'm not sure why he was wearing bright red sneakers in the clip if he was trying to be a "master of camouflage" though.



Wow that's really interesting!



I wonder if that could indicate what his learning difficulty was? Using voice to text sounds like maybe he could have had dyslexia or something.



I don't think he saw Bryer as a killer waiting to kill the whole time. I think he definitely knew Bryer was troubled but was unaware or in denial of the extent of it. A lot of teens are troubled and most of them don't kill innocent people. Usually parents are more concerned about suicide being a possibility as opposed to homicide. I think after the murders happened all of the signs coalesced in his mind and he was like "OMG...."



From what's been said here about Canadian gun laws, they are in serious trouble if it turns out Kam took the gun from their home.

Too many comments to quote on the "were the families' reactions justified" discussion...I don't blame any of the families for any of their reactions. I can totally understand why Chynna's mom is upset that Bryer's dad went to the media like that. I don't think it's true that Bryer's dad turned Bryer into a killer, since as I said it's multi-factorial, and I also think Bryer's dad did own up to his failures as a parent. But am I going to blast a grieving mother of a murder victim for feeling that way? Of course not.

I also don't blame Kam's family for not going to the media. They are under no obligation to dance for the media circus if they want to grieve in private.

I also don't blame Bryer's family for going to the media. I think they are genuinely trying to shed insight on what may have happened. I don't think they have any bad intentions with this, to get sympathy or steal the spotlight. I have issue with the predatory way the media is treating Bryer's dad, and I don't think he has the capacity right now to fully consent to this much exposure and I don't think it's good for his mental health either.

Also I hope I was wrong in the discussion from the other day about how the RCMP might not release cause of death for Kam and Bryer. It sounds like they actually might.

Excellent post!

 

[sandbar]

I'll reply, despite your condescending tone.

1. There's absolutely no report that says his mother reported him missing
2. Police would already know there have been no contact orders, so why on earth would they assume she'll pick up the phone to tell Alan?
3. Her name isn't "Mrs. Schmegelsky"

I do care that he wasn't told by the RCMP. He's his father.

HYPOTHETICAL: It is possible that they tried to reach him and couldn't. Maybe he had no minutes or whatever, saw an unknown number etc. If that was the case, should LE have held up the announcement, when BS lived with Gramma?

 

[Gina20]

Am I the only one that sees ‘PA’ and always has a moment of ‘Pennsylvania?Huh?’ immediately followed by ‘Ohhhhh. Not-a-Port Alberni’. ‘On the island’ always throws me into a similar brief mental tailspin because around here that means Manitoulin Island. I’m managing.

NAPA could be the acronym, but that'd cause vehicle confusion.

 

[srper2]

Strange that BS would tell his dad he was going to Alberta, but his grandmother was told they were going to Whitehorse. And he called Kam 'Kim'? Is that a spelling error?

bs may have told his dad Alberta to not worry him due to his possibly fragile mental health

 

[Deleted member 248860]

From what's been said here about Canadian gun laws, they are in serious trouble if it turns out Kam took the gun from their home.

I don’t think that this is high on the list of things that the RCMP is focused on, and there are a lot of assumed facts which have to be true before you even get there. Even then, I think that it’s more a potential civil liability issue, which of course could indeed be serious if there is a lawsuit.

 

[otto]

RCMP have stated the case is not closed and that there could still be other people involved (the link to this is in my post from the previous thread)

I have searched everywhere for a link to support the claim that RCMP believe that other people were involved in the murders. Any idea where this information is coming from?

 

[sprucetip]

Am I the only one that sees ‘PA’ and always has a moment of ‘Pennsylvania?Huh?’ immediately followed by ‘Ohhhhh. Not-a-Port Alberni’. ‘On the island’ always throws me into a similar brief mental tailspin because around here that means Manitoulin Island. I’m managing.

Funny, I think of Prince Albert, Saskatchewan!

 

[Rottiluvr]

AS described it as "auto correct".

AS said it was voice to text.

 

[Gina20]

HYPOTHETICAL: It is possible that they tried to reach him and couldn't. Maybe he had no minutes or whatever, saw an unknown number etc. If that was the case, should LE have held up the announcement, when BS lived with Gramma?

Other family members of BS did not notify him, which begs the question "why?" His son was missing. They did not get along. His son was missing.

They could have held up the announcement. They didn't. Other people go missing and their families can't get anyone to take much notice. Maybe they knew right away that these were "suspects", so followed the suspect protocol, not the missing person protocol. It gets confusing, eh?

 

[amizeee]

Funny, I think of Prince Albert, Saskatchewan!

Same because that's where I'm from! lol

 

[srper2]

Well, I am taking the cat to the vet and hope that by the time I get back, the RCMP have finished following all the protocols for identification they have to follow and can provide some information regarding the deaths of their suspects. Unfortunately, nothing will bring back five people who all lost their lives completely unnecessarily <modsnip>

 

[missy1974]

I was seeing 'PA' as Prince Albert at first. My mind has since been retrained

I think of Prince Albert... doubt my mind could be retrained haha

 

[SteveP]

I have searched everywhere for a link to support the claim that RCMP believe that other people were involved in the murders. Any idea where this information is coming from?

I am sure that someone more organized than me will be able to supply a link, but IIRC, RCMP never said they believe that other people were involved, but said instead, and I am paraphrasing, that at this time, they cannot rule out that others may have been involved. @Seattle1? JMO

 

[sandbar]

Other family members of BS did not notify him, which begs the question "why?" His son was missing. They did not get along. His son was missing.

Right, but should LE have held the announcement until AS was reached?

 

[modernpenny]

Is that on an iPhone? My Android doesn't do that with Messenger, but I know app appearances on different devices can vary quite a bit.

I'm not overly familiar with apple devices, speaking from an android perspective, haha.

 

[KR72]

Am I the only one that sees ‘PA’ and always has a moment of ‘Pennsylvania?Huh?’ immediately followed by ‘Ohhhhh. Not-a-Port Alberni’. ‘On the island’ always throws me into a similar brief mental tailspin because around here that means Manitoulin Island. I’m managing.

Nope! I'm Canadian and when I see PA, I automatically think Pennsylvania too!

 

[Schmoosh]

AS said it was voice to text.

It's both. Voice to text tries to guess what you're saying.

 

[10ofRods]

I wonder why the RCMP didn't mention anything about the last time KM or BS's phones were used? Obviously, they could track their movements from the pings. Seems like their keeping that information under wraps too.

Yes, they certainly are, along with a host of other info. I get it, though. Their job is and was to collect evidence and pass it on to the Crown. The Crown looked at (some of) the information and laid charges in the Prof Dyck case, on its own.

I think it's unfortunate for the families of Chynna and Lucas that charges were not laid before the two were found dead. If it were me, that would have provided a bit of closure. In my experience, families of crime victims really want information, more than anything. Some want it all. I am one of those people and I tend to remain in contact with survivors/victims who are the same way. But not everyone is like that.

I assume that if the suspects had been formally charged, in court, they would have heard their charges and their attorney would have had the evidence, which would have been filed with the court. Since it never got to that stage, I don't know how Canada treats this, next. But in most of the US, since no charges were laid in the Chynna and Lucas murders, there would be no court records to ask for and acquire (there's a fee, but court records, unless sealed by a judge - which is rare - are available to all). It's usually the media who grabs them.