Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #14

[srper2]

Could they have been at the bottom of the cliff? As in jumped off of it? I'm just trying to get a picture of the terrain here. But I don't know if they've released enough details for us to have a clear picture.

Now I am imagining them going through the thick bush in the dark and stumbling of a 30m plus cliff, falling to the bottom and dying hidden in the scrub at the bottom, although from my (unverified) experience, hanging still sticks in my mind

 

[MistyWaters]

Didn't the police say there was a 6o to 80 foot cliff face, and the river was at the bottom, and Kam and Bryer were at the top of it? Am I correct in that interpretation of what they were saying? If so, my theory is that they threw a bunch of their items off the cliff on purpose to attract searchers so their bodies would be found. As for the boat I don't know if it was ever used or if it was just coincidentally located. I know the Globe and Mail reporters showed the police trying to trace their route and it was on land, not the river.

In that same Globe article I believe there was one photo of a RCMP boat near the shore of the river too.

 

[mtnstream]

The burning of the vehicles makes sense only for the purpose of destroying evidence that may have been transferred from the murder scenes to the vehicles. Of course, making that decision needs to be weighted against what you say, that it's basically giving up their general location, or at the very least giving the police a point to pick up their trail again.

I've always wondered why they burned the RAV4, instead of just hiding it in the bush.

I've also wondered why they didn't just head to Winnipeg, where they could blend in more easily.

Point is, hindsight is 20/20, but who knows what was going on inside their heads when they were making those decisions.

Burning the vehicle destroyed evidence, DNA, etc. And served as a calling card. MOO

 

[Trooper]

Whoever called it didn't have a hard time convincing his accomplice. I think.

or maybe the accomplice didn't see it coming.. .. ..

That is.. while their dead bodies were found at the same time, and, apparently, close by each other, it hasn't been definitively established that they both died at the same time, by their own respective hands...

 

[KR72]

What? Saying that a multitude of factors led up to them committing these murders and that those factors could have been changed, and that we can learn from this case to prevent the next one from happening, isn't the same thing as saying the victims don't deserve any sympathy and that Kam and Bryer are absolved of what they did. You're literally making up something that absolutely nobody here is saying. But what I can tell you is your attitude of "they didn't have any real issues because they were white males in a Western country," is going to accomplish absolutely ZERO when it comes to preventing other young people from turning to senseless violence. And that is backed up by multitudes of research on this topic.
School Shooters: What's Their Path To Violence?

People have been ripping into BS's mom and blaming her for parenting fails, painting AS as her victim, and earlier (several pages back) people were critiquing CD's sisters Facebook post because she said she "forgave" the suspects' famlies. I read the post as having a bit of hyperbole myself.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes, and I'm sure it'll be revealed that KM's mother was a real piece of work as well and responsible for her poor son's choices.

AS already covered that off too. Him good, she bad, raised him on video games and YouTube.

 

[srper2]

What? Saying that a multitude of factors led up to them committing these murders and that those factors could have been changed, and that we can learn from this case to prevent the next one from happening, isn't the same thing as saying the victims don't deserve any sympathy and that Kam and Bryer are absolved of what they did. You're literally making up something that absolutely nobody here is saying. But what I can tell you is your attitude of "they didn't have any real issues because they were white males in a Western country," is going to accomplish absolutely ZERO when it comes to preventing other young people from turning to senseless violence. And that is backed up by multitudes of research on this topic.
School Shooters: What's Their Path To Violence?

DBM

 

[Optics]

Bryer Schmelgesky did not finish high school, and he did not graduate, correct?

He completed his grade 12 requirement or the equivalent and did graduate.

 

[KR72]

AS already covered that off too. Him good, she bad, raised him on video games and YouTube.

One thing about that comment of AS's re the video games and YouTube that I just thought of. How does he know? He wasn't there, he wasn't part of his son's life during that time, yet somehow he thinks his son was raised on video games and YouTube. I take it he's listening to Bryer's version of events?

 

[Iwondertoo]

That’s a real eye-opener. I’d never heard of Ritalin being snorted until mention of B doing so on a prior camping trip.

I've being following this Ritalin thought.

Let's keep in mind that, as far as I know, our only source of the idea BS snorted Ritalin comes from just one person quoted in a newspaper article. And he admits he didn't even witness it first hand.

From the way the article is written, it sounds like the 'teenager' is just repeating something he's heard happened at the party. Otherwise he wouldn't have said "If it's true..."

Suddenly, behaviour that some who knew the teens had dismissed as simply odd or unsettling has taken on a grave new meaning. A teen in Port Alberni described hanging out with Mr. Schmegelsky and Mr. McLeod while they camped at Sproat Lake this spring, and said Mr. Schmegelsky was wearing a swastika armband and military fatigues, and using a replica Nazi knife to crush Ritalin tablets and snort them.


“I’m so dumbfounded that Kam would be a part of this,” said the teen, whom The Globe and Mail is not identifying by name because of his youth and his concern about being associated with Mr. Schmegelsky. (The Globe conducted the interview with the knowledge of the teen’s father.) “If it is true, I’d be surprised about Kam, but I would not be surprised about Bryer. Let’s just put it this way, he was a little bit [messed] up in the mind.”

I'm reserving judgement on how much weight I give to this 'snorting Ritalin' statement.

Just one person in Canada has mentioned someone had told them this story about Bryer and Ritalin at a party and then it's mentioned in a national paper and taken as the truth and ran with...

It makes me wonder.

Edited to add source:

Searching for answers: Sense of unease lingers in B.C.’s isolated north as police hunt suspects in remote killings

 

[Trooper]

One thing about that comment of AS's re the video games and YouTube that I just thought of. How does he know? He wasn't there, he wasn't part of his son's life during that time, yet somehow he thinks his son was raised on video games and YouTube. I take it he's listening to Bryer's version of events?

and in would be in little Bry's best interest to bag out Mum over everything, everytime, all the time, otherwise Dad's attention would certainly waver. And that wouldn't be an advantage , from little Bry's point of view.

 

[NJSleuth91]

People have been ripping into BS's mom and blaming her for parenting fails, painting AS as her victim, and earlier (several pages back) people were critiquing CD's sisters Facebook post because she said she "forgave" the suspects' famlies. I read the post as having a bit of hyperbole myself.

I mean, there is evidence to indicate that she was a less than ideal parent too. Overall though, this is all speculation based on the limited evidence we have. I don't agree with the criticism of the Deese family. They have a right to be upset about whatever they want at this point IMO.

But this guy has been making a series of posts saying basically "They didn't have anything to complain about because they didn't live in Uganda, so they should have just manned up and gotten over it." I don't see how that attitude is helpful to anything. In fact I suspect that type of "get over it, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, what do you have to be upset about?" attitude (they did come from a town that I've seen described as "redneck") contributed to a failure to notice or intervene in their downward spiral, which could have prevented this from happening. And this is a recurring problem in our society as of late, so I think it's in our best interests to take steps to resolve it, especially out of respect to the victims. As it happens, research indicates that effective interventions to prevent this type of thing from happening pretty much involve the opposite of the "man up and get over it because people are starving in Africa" attitude this guy is promoting. I know some people probably just want to write these guys off as monsters beyond redemption and not bother to get into their heads and figure out what was going on, but research indicates (see the article I posted above) that most young people who turn to violence could have been stopped with these interventions.

 

[mtnstream]

Yes I've speculated on this as well. I even said a while ago that my husband was prescribed Adderall in his 20s (not exactly the same as Ritalin but similar effects) and had to stop taking it because he started having violent feelings and thoughts out of nowhere.

I feel like we could probably bet money on that drugs were involved. It just seems to make sense. First of all they usually are in these types of cases. Substance use can mean the difference between violent thoughts and violent acts, holding your tongue or starting something, joking about doing something really stupid like armed robbery and actually going and doing it, etc. I think when Bryer's friend told him "don't go out and kill somebody," and he said "I would never do that," he actually did mean it. Up until that point he was all talk when it came to violence. But drugs could be the missing piece that lowered their inhibitions just enough to push them over the edge into doing something terrible.

Also, two troubled oddball teenagers with a known history of substance use, out on their own for the first time, in the middle of nowhere where cops are unlikely to be around...are we really going to think that they stayed sober? Kam single-handedly driving halfway across the continent in three days...snorting Ritalin would certainly help with that. Their totally baffling and nonsensical decisions too. To paraphrase one of those "Meth: Not Even Once" ads, "Burning your car next to a murder scene to cover up the murder isn't normal...but on amphetamines it is." I'd bet El Chapo's entire fortune that they weren't sober.

Not to belabor a point, and I hear your concerns - but Ritalin is different than Adderall. And we still don't know if these young men/suspects had substance abuse issues.

 

[Optics]

I am adamantly against drugs and drug misuse. In relation to this boy saying he saw Bryer snort Ritalin, that may be the case. The thing that bugs me is this boy did not know him well, and didn't say what everyone else was doing in terms of drugs at the party. I am only guessing , but it could have been a pending Grad Party which happens in BC. The only people who have said anything of him were basically this boy, plus the girl who told of a story from 6 or 7 years ago and had not seen him since. Everyone is pretty mum on Kam. Media takes those little 10 seconds of fame sound bites and blows them up. Young people tend to embellish also. Although the older adult guy at Cold Lake has really embellished his original story too. The kid may have seen Bryer snort Ritalin, but heck Kam may have been selling cocaine to others for all we know. I'm not sure how much weight I put on those 2 'witnesses'.

 

[Francie Starr]

Prof. Dyck may not have died from the bullet, even if he was shot. This could be true for all 3 victims. We will know in the future.

Quite so. Even if proven that the deaths occurred as a result of gunshots, it would be necessary to determine who held the gun that fired the bullets, and the rationale for that action: murder, self defense or accident.

 

[KR72]

and in would be in little Bry's best interest to bag out Mum over everything, everytime, all the time, otherwise Dad's attention would certainly waver. And that wouldn't be an advantage , from little Bry's point of view.

Totally, and I think that almost any child of divorce would do the same to a certain extent. My parents divorced when I was young and I sure tried to play sides when I was a teen and wanted something, you know, "but Dad lets me..." type of stuff. It didn't always work, but sometimes it did!

 

[scrappinkat]

AS already covered that off too. Him good, she bad, raised him on video games and YouTube.

I think the poster you were answering said KM, I took it to refer to Kam? I’m not sure though if that’s what she meant or if it’s just so many initials to keep track of at times.

 

[mtnstream]

The thing that bugs me is this boy did not know him well, and didn't say what everyone else was doing in terms of drugs at the party. I am only guessing , but it could have been a pending Grad Party which happens in BC.

How do you know the boy quoted didn't know Bryer well?

Different types of substances (legal and illegal) are used by people (adults and teens) on a somewhat regular basis.

 

[srper2]

An inquest won’t be held because the autopsy has been completed IMO. Your reference refers to a death to which the police aren’t currently investigating and an autopsy is by the request of the family. Information is never disclosed during a criminal investigation. The coroners office’s investigation into cause and manner of death is supported by the police investigation. The autopsy then becomes evidence which supports the police file.

There is a set protocol for responding to the death/suicide of a young person, this link has all the requirements set out and may be helpful for anyone (like me) following this particular conversation,
Manitoba Laws
It seems that an inquest might be required according to the info. provided there?

 

[Francie Starr]

Didn't the police say there was a 6o to 80 foot cliff face, and the river was at the bottom, and Kam and Bryer were at the top of it? Am I correct in that interpretation of what they were saying? If so, my theory is that they threw a bunch of their items off the cliff on purpose to attract searchers so their bodies would be found. As for the boat I don't know if it was ever used or if it was just coincidentally located. I know the Globe and Mail reporters showed the police trying to trace their route and it was on land, not the river.

There was a video with someone (..police ? local guide? I'd have to search again) showing a densely overgrown "trail" that reportedly went along the top of a steep cliff, with the river visible far below. This was theoretically somewhere near where the bodies were found. Accordingly, I wondered if one or other or both had actually fallen down the cliff face. But that would not help explain how their stuff ended up over a kilometre away on the shoreline. If one stretches the imagination, perhaps it could have been that one guy fell down the cliff; the other tried unsuccessfully to reach him, then carried on along the trail 'til it was possible to get down to the shore and then doubled back to find his friend. JMO. I have no idea, truly. As with mostly everything in this case so far, it is "a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma" (apologies to the ghost of W. Churchill)