Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #14

[sprucetip]

Interesting.

IMO I hope you don't get a bye on stealing a gun because you have a license.

I'm saying he could have been fully licensed and carrying his own gun (or two) legally.

 

[Jpoho]

Maybe it's the guns that connected KM and BS to the victims after all? After LF and CD were found shot to death and BS and KM were reported missing, IF guns were missing from the McLeod home, the McLeod family would have been obligated to report that to the RCMP. Maybe the RCMP determined that the gun used to kill CD and LF was the same type(s) missing from the McLeod home, and they put two and two together from there.

Good point. In addition, and I’m not sure if this has been pitched as a theory yet, or if I’ve missed something that makes it not plausible, but is it possible that one gun is responsible for one murder; LD and the second gun, that we are now aware of, is responsible for the murder of CD and LF which would explain why they strongly suspect the connection, but didn’t lay the other sets of charges? IMO

 

[Thinkzerz]

Yeah well, I think that can be questionable given now the RCMP have admitted their personal effect and clothing were lying on the shore, for "several days" near where they should have been expected to be, and only found them because of a civilian tip! Not sure if that qualifies for "great work".

It was a tip that lead them to the clothing?

 

[sprucetip]

Then...would he not have acquired the guns legally, in which case RCMP would have known which guns he had. That brings us full circle to the discussion about whether there should have been more info/warnings. I personally think RCMP would have said "believed to be armed and dangerous" or equivalent if they knew Kam had legally purchased guns.

Maybe not. I'm just guessing.

Good point, yep they would know but would they share it with us?

 

[SnooperDuper]

So here's how my thinking has shifted on what went down:

Previously I thought they went down the river by boat right after they set the RAV4 on fire. RCMP says they were alive and in the area for at least a few days after that. I now realize that it's possible that they set the boat and unneeded gear in the river as both a decoy and taunt to police, and could have traveled on foot along 290, diving in the bush when a vehicle was heard and becoming almost instantly invisible as we have seen in the RCMP videos.

People keep asking why they would have set the truck and camper on fire and signaled their presence at the crime scene, and provided a direct link to them? I mean, how stupid if you want to remain undetected. Why set the RAV4 on fire? If they had not, how long would it be before someone decided to check out an abandoned vehicle outside of an abandoned town? And if they never used the boat, why fill it up with things and send it down the rapids?

These were intentional, brazen statements. They wanted to signal to people that they were out there alive and still dangerous, that they were faster and smarter than LE. In the heat of the chase people were saying these boys were geniuses. I think they wanted to die notorious and made the chase, and their fast escapes, as newsworthy as possible. Did their story grip the nation? The world? Yes. And Dad: "Kudos, boys!"

All of a sudden with word that there were two guns, I realize there is no dominant leader and submissive follower. They were both armed, they were equal, they were a team. They both spent a lot of time gaming as a team against others and they were united in this: no one was being dragged along.

I think they never ever wanted to be found. They were ok to die knowing they had left behind a trail of havoc and were certain to win fame and notoriety. That's the motive: live fast, die young, be notorious.

 

[Zella]

I was not surprised to learn they committed suicide--I suspected as much as soon as the bodies were found together away from the shore.

I was a little surprised to have it confirmed there were 2 firearms, though I had wondered if LF and CD were shot with different weapons. Am curious where the weapons came from and what caliber they were.

What surprised me the most was that they apparently survived for a few days after they were last sighted. I'd assumed they had killed themselves shortly after torching the rav4, but it sounds like they may have rode it out in the woods for a bit after all. Bet that Manitoba bug problem was a factor, as well as the helicopters they probably heard suddenly descend.

I'm also pleasantly surprised the RCMP confirmed they would publicize their findings after the investigation concluded because I had feared we would wait a long time and perhaps never learn anything. I realize there may not be a doc dump, but that is fine.

 

[otto]

It was a tip that lead them to the clothing?

It wasn't. RCMP spotted the boat and checked the area more thoroughly.

In a separate situation, a boater saw a sleeping bag at Port Nelson, 110km downstream.

 

[KR72]

It was a tip that lead them to the clothing?

From what I recall, (I'm too tired to go looking for it now), it was Clint Sawchuk, the adventure tour guide, who spotted a sleeping bag hung up in the willows on the banks of the Nelson. If I'm remembering correctly, the sleeping bag wasn't located near the personal effects of the suspects.

 

[JuneBug67]

Canada as a relatively gun free place? Nope, not any more (at least, not in the public mind, right now). RCMP must surely be concerned as well.

I think Canada as a relatively gun free place was an idea held externally, not here. The vast majority of Canadians know how significant hunting is here and that the country has long guns coming out the ying yang. We also know there is an illegal handgun trade, particularly in the major urban centres, and if the weapons turn out to be handguns there will be some curiosity about just how they hooked that up, but there isn’t going to be any movement on public concern about about guns either way. This isn’t that story.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Where is our dark web expert?

Are guns sold on the dark web in Canada?

Honestly, I think BS spent so much time on Steam perfecting his gangsta talk, that he was probably able to connect with someone in e.g., Vancouver that could supply him with a couple guns at a price far cheaper than retail.

Why would this guy put so much effort into learning to talk the talk if it wasn't to get something? He learned the lingo, earned the street cred, to get connected to someone through Steam, IMO.

 

[justchrissy47]

Where is our dark web expert?

Are guns sold on the dark web in Canada?

I don't know about the dark web, but I had a conversation with a police officer in Winnipeg a couple of months ago. He was telling me about his undercover training. They had to buy a firearm from someone on the streets......he did it within 7 minutes of starting!!

 

[sprucetip]

Maybe the reason for K and B's trip was to buy guns - they spent their money- the murder of the couple was a robbery gone wrong. I don't know - its just speculation - I'm still grappling with the suicides. I really thought their cause of death was going to be hyperthermia and not suicide - otherwise, why kill yourself in the bush? Forensics should be able to determine the time of death more precisely than what we know currently. For example, IMO, a body decomposing in the bush for 5 days vs, 10 days should be quite different.

I really think people are making it way too complicated. What about them just wanting to wreak havoc around the country then die in a suicide pact? I think it's really that simple. They probably hung around the first murders because they wanted to hear about it in the news, kind of like when killers return to the scene of the crime. Maybe they did that. They were likely fired up after killing two people and not sure what to do next. I think they made plans as they went. The only thing they knew for sure was that they were dying at the end. I don't think they planned when the end would be. Or where it would be. But that's likely why they made no attempt to conceal their identity at all along the way.

 

[Trooper]

From what I recall, (I'm too tired to go looking for it now), it was Clint Sawchuk, the adventure tour guide, who spotted a sleeping bag hung up in the willows on the banks of the Nelson. If I'm remembering correctly, the sleeping bag wasn't located near the personal effects of the suspects.

ahh hh c'mon@!! don't spoil a good story to shovel the RCMP!!..

 

[sandbar]

Because if you try to apply Occam's Razor in the case, it certainly does not lead to the mainstream narrative!

DBM

Uncooperative plants.

Triffids

 

[10ofRods]

Maybe the reason for K and B's trip was to buy guns - they spent their money- the murder of the couple was a robbery gone wrong. I don't know - its just speculation - I'm still grappling with the suicides. I really thought their cause of death was going to be hyperthermia and not suicide - otherwise, why kill yourself in the bush? Forensics should be able to determine the time of death more precisely than what we know currently. For example, IMO, a body decomposing in the bush for 5 days vs, 10 days should be quite different.

Well, RCMP did say (I think) that they survived 4-5 days after their last sighting (the checkpoint? We don't know what marker RCMP is using).

I too thought they would be dead from exposure.

They had a choice of death-by-cop (with possibly some death/damage to RCMP individuals) but somehow veered away from that fairly easily managed event. Instead, they chose a more solitary, intimate death. If it's true they did not come up to their death place from the river and instead threw some of their belongings down the bank, that may signal that they wanted to be found (dead). Remorse, of a kind.

My guess is that they did something they simply could not live with; they set out to do exactly that. They were suicidal from the beginning, whether conscious of it or not. Like many criminals, really (willing to die, hoping not to die, at least initially).

Burning the vehicles makes much more sense to me now.

 

[SteveP]

I am wondering if both guns were used in the murders of Chynna and Lucas? That may explain the seemingly different amounts of visible injuries that they may have sustained. The gentleman who guarded their bodies until RCMP arrived stated that only a small hole was obvious on Lucas, which, imo, seems could have been from a .22 rifle, whereas the injuries at least hinted that Chynna suffered seem to be much worse...a shotgun blast in the face perhaps?? Something prevented her from having an open coffin funeral. If each suspect killed one, my gut tells me that it may more likely have been BS who killed Chynna, as he seemed to have at least some history with making threatening comments to a female. JMO

 

[sprucetip]

I know an awful lot of academics and I can assure you that they do not travel with guns. Guns and academics are two things that do not go together in one sentence.

Plus I think most people in BC/Yukon are more likely to take bear spray than a gun for protection.

ETA: LD was probably super comfortable out in the wilderness, given his history and profession so I can see him easily going without a gun.

 

[Francie Starr]

Hmmm, I always thought the shift in terminology was to be more specific, to indicate death, kinda like concussions are referred to as brain injuries. And I think I thought that because I thought suicides are a crime in Canada. Ya, they are, right?

Wiki sez "Suicide was decriminalized in Canada in 1972."

 

[southgoldengirl]

So here's how my thinking has shifted on what went down:

Previously I thought they went down the river by boat right after they set the RAV4 on fire. RCMP says they were alive and in the area for at least a few days after that. I now realize that it's possible that they set the boat and unneeded gear in the river as both a decoy and taunt to police, and could have traveled on foot along 290, diving in the bush when a vehicle was heard and becoming almost instantly invisible as we have seen in the RCMP videos.

People keep asking why they would have set the truck and camper on fire and signaled their presence at the crime scene, and provided a direct link to them? I mean, how stupid if you want to remain undetected. Why set the RAV4 on fire? If they had not, how long would it be before someone decided to check out an abandoned vehicle outside of an abandoned town? And if they never used the boat, why fill it up with things and send it down the rapids?

These were intentional, brazen statements. They wanted to signal to people that they were out there alive and still dangerous, that they were faster and smarter than LE. In the heat of the chase people were saying these boys were geniuses. I think they wanted to die notorious and made the chase, and their fast escapes, as newsworthy as possible. Did their story grip the nation? The world? Yes. And Dad: "Kudos, boys!"

All of a sudden with word that there were two guns, I realize there is no dominant leader and submissive follower. They were both armed, they were equal, they were a team. They both spent a lot of time gaming as a team against others and they were united in this: no one was being dragged along.

I think they never ever wanted to be found. They were ok to die knowing they had left behind a trail of havoc and were certain to win fame and notoriety. That's the motive: live fast, die young, be notorious.

Yep, this is what I think also.

 

[webbie]

Cowards. They are cowards. Everything they did was cowardly.

I'm thinking desperados.
Bored desperados.

As to the why.... obviously not for any particular cause or reason.
For the thrill? The challenge? Who knows...

What is for sure is they ended it the way they planned.