Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #16

[sandbar]

I’ll bet you saw a lot of couches.

That made me laugh...

I'd never heard the term pull out before this case. They were called rest stops when I was growing up in Ontario. Or "the shoulder".

 

[MistyWaters]

I’m not sure, maybe this information below was just recently updated. Milepost features travel information along the Alaskan Highway, BC through to Alaska.

“NOTE: Campers are urged to use established campgrounds. Overnighting in rest areas and turnouts may be unsafe and is illegal unless otherwise posted...”
Camping | The Milepost

 

[Ooohm]

Hi all

I haven't posted before. This obviously is bothering so many people as to motive including me!

I think these 2 guys saw an abandoned van on the side of highway at night.
They decided to loot it. I doubt it occurred to them that anyone was in the van.

I don't think they meant to go on mission but they did have gun or guns I think. Doubt Lucas had one but possible.

The couple were probably sleeping.
The pair opened side or front door.
Lucas woke up and came to door without shoes.
Bryer and Kam were surprised but had a gun and decided to threaten robbery. Lucas fought back. They shot him in abdomen as angle upwards from road fits. Chynna heard all woke up tried to put on shoe at back of camper. The 2 entered van saw her and shot multiple times as freaked out and not experienced with real guns which blew out back window as well as her. Escalation. Botched robbery.

Rcmp will be able to determine this from van inspection. Surely they can find out where guns came from. They simply have no obligation to release these details until they have done every angle analysis.

After the shootings there was likely debate between 2 of them which led the pair to drag couple out of van onto side of road. Likely thinking they would drive van away. Van didn't start. I doubt they were posed. Likely dragged by one arm overone of the pair's shoulder and bodies rolled that way.

They the pair split scene taking as many bits of identification as possible. Missed her passport and left most of couples belongings. Likely nighttime.

The pair then spent 3 days somewhere freaking out and plotting how to get out of this meanwhile listening to all news on radio.

Drove north and west and then south to dease lake (evasive action). Opportunistically they found another poor guy (Len)at side of road. Opportunity to dispose of evidence of their car and take another one. Hey they had already killed people so why not and had 3 days of desperate rationalization talks on board. They were desperate to flee and try to evade capture.

The pair did this deed and headed east. Whether they went back up and passed original crime scene or went south noone knows.

I doubt they thought about possibility of being caught on camera at coop store in Saskatchewan. But likely heard about this on radio after which they were named as suspects.


They continued to drive east and north.
Unfortunately they didn't understand that past Gillam 280 highway (which would have led them west and then south first before going east into Ontario) they took 290. This road ends at Bush.
They ran out of gas.

Knowing they couldn't go back they decided to take their chances in Bush hoping to cross river or something.
They probably burned car to get rid of evidence or more likely in hopes that people would think they got another car and split.

Once in deep Bush they likely soon learned that survival in bc and west coast was really easy compared to Manitoba. West coast has nice tall trees cedar paths and no bugs.
Maybe or not they tried to cross river in boat and failed.
Elected to then kill themselves as they saw no way out.
All of this is just my opinion.

I don't think anything was premeditated here but certainly actions of a desperate pair who thought they were smart and thought they had no other way.
They certainly were polite to guy getting them out of ditch. They didn't feel the need to kill him. He was helping them. Polite and saying sorry to the patrol who waived them over for alcohol checks.
Sad all around.
I am not defending these men. I just think this is plausible.
Looking forward to replies.

Thank you very much for your thoughts. I find your scenario quite plausible. Welcome to the discussion.

 

[otto]

Pretty sure that one of the people who stopped to offer assistance was a mechanic. IIRC correctly, he felt that the engine was flooded and they would be on their way after a while, which seems to imply that perhaps Lucas attempted to start it while the mechanic was there. Also, to whom, other than a police officer, would LF even need to attempt to lie about the condition of the van to, in order to get away with staying there overnight? I truly doubt anyone else cared. And if they had, perhaps they would have, or did, call the police. If so, LE apparently did not consider it a high enough priority to respond to the call. JMO

A woman did contact RCMP at 4PM July 14 to report the couple on the side of the highway. She explained that she did not stop because there was traffic and her car was full of relatives. RCMP did not drive 4 hours to follow up (discussion and links started in the first thread).

 

[SteveP]

The Canadian highway roadside pullout

View attachment 198827

B.C. Highway Cams

Thank you for posting these pics. This is exactly what I envisioned a pullout to look like. And fwiw, I do not believe such a spot screams "danger". I think, taking sensible precautions, i.e., keeping doors locked, I would feel safe at such a spot, if I needed to spend the night. JMO

 

[otto]

I'm finding this thread a bit of a 'blaming the victim' for pulling off to the side of the road. I'm going to guess that it's rare to be attacked at the side of the road, based on the number of people who do so. I might be wrong.

I'm hearing people say, "who would ever pull over?" "Everyone knows it's a risk." But truly how often does it happen relative to how often people pull over?

Just curious.

Two peripheral points have been discussed in relation to the three murders on Canadian highways. One relates to why children go wrong, the other is how to improve highway safety awareness.

 

[SteveP]

A woman did contact RCMP at 4PM July 14 to report the couple on the side of the highway. She explained that she did not stop because there was traffic and her car was full of relatives. RCMP did not drive 4 hours to follow up (discussion and links started in the first thread).

Yes, but as I stated, apparently, it was not a high enough priority for LE to respond to the call. I believe she called because she thought they were having trouble though. I do not think the purpose of her call was to tattle on someone just camping. JMO

 

[Zella]

I suspect LF and CD probably recognized there was an inherent risk in spending the night there, but with the vehicle breaking down as far from help as it did, I understand why they made that decision. They were experienced travelers, and I'm sure it dawned on them there was some potential for the van on the side of the road to be a potential target for robbers. But I don't think it ever even dawned on them that they needed to fear the potential of being visited by 2 homicidal teenagers armed with firearms.

 

[MistyWaters]

Thank you for posting these pics. This is exactly what I envisioned a pullout to look like. And fwiw, I do not believe such a spot screams "danger". I think, taking sensible precautions, i.e., keeping doors locked, I would feel safe at such a spot, if I needed to spend the night. JMO

Okay now I’m confused because I thought the van was parked on the gravelled portion on the edge of the paved highway? That’s not the same as a pullout, which is a specifically designated parking area located on the side of the highway much like a rest stop but without washrooms or picnic tables, etc. However I’m also unable to find a link that mentions the van was parked at a pullout.

“We just saw their van on the side of the road and we saw a young couple, and the van hood was up like it had broken down and they were sitting in some lawn chairs in the ditch,” she said...”
Tourists found dead along B.C.’s Alaska Highway appear to have been shot: NSW police

 

[LadyL]

I’ll bet you saw a lot of couches.

LMAO yes!!!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I’m unable to find a link to a photo at the moment but did anyone notice the electronic billboard set up early on by the RCMP asking for dashcam also mentioned Mucho Lake? Google tells me Mucho Lake Prov Park is 66 km south of Laird Hotsprings Prov Park and so the murder site was 46km beyond that, but reported as only 20km south of Laird HS.

I wonder what’s the interest in Mucho Lake? Possibly L&C stayed there the night of the 14th?

ETA - here

View attachment 198807


Final tragic twist in Canada highway murders

Very interesting and good catch! Do you think L&C stayed there maybe or K&B? I think it's a plausible reason for RCMP wanting dashcam footage.

 

[otto]

I’m not sure, maybe this information below was just recently updated. Milepost features travel information along the Alaskan Highway, BC through to Alaska.

“NOTE: Campers are urged to use established campgrounds. Overnighting in rest areas and turnouts may be unsafe and is illegal unless otherwise posted...”
Camping | The Milepost

That's not new information. That's what I've been saying throughout the discussion. It would be great if new signage and public awareness are a priority.

 

[SteveP]

Okay now I’m confused because I thought the van was parked on the gravelled portion on the edge of the paved highway? That’s not the same as a pullout, which is a specifically designated parking area located on the side of the highway much like a rest stop but without washrooms or picnic tables, etc. However I’m also unable to find a link that mentions the van was parked at a pullout.

“We just saw their van on the side of the road and we saw a young couple, and the van hood was up like it had broken down and they were sitting in some lawn chairs in the ditch,” she said...”
Tourists found dead along B.C.’s Alaska Highway appear to have been shot: NSW police

You are correct. The van was not in a pullout. It was on the side of the highway, but completely off of the road. Pullouts are only being mentioned because the poster was stating that it is illegal to park st them overnight, and highly risky.

 

[otto]

Yes, but as I stated, apparently, it was not a high enough priority for LE to respond to the call. I believe she called because she thought they were having trouble though. I do not think the purpose of her call was to tattle on someone just camping. JMO

Her husband passed the spot 20 minutes earlier with their two children. When she saw they were still there 20 minutes later, she called RCMP.

 

[MistyWaters]

I suspect LF and CD probably recognized there was an inherent risk in spending the night there, but with the vehicle breaking down as far from help as it did, I understand why they made that decision. They were experienced travelers, and I'm sure it dawned on them there was some potential for the van on the side of the road to be a potential target for robbers. But I don't think it ever even dawned on them that they needed to fear the potential of being visited by 2 homicidal teenagers armed with firearms.

Yes, unfortunately people are murdered within the security of their own homes or shot at while driving as well. But statistically Canada is an extremely safe country and if we all lived our lives in fear of getting murdered, we’d be basket cases.

 

[sandbar]

Okay now I’m confused because I thought the van was parked on the gravelled portion on the edge of the paved highway? That’s not the same as a pullout, which is a specifically designated parking area located on the side of the highway much like a rest stop but without washrooms or picnic tables, etc. However I’m also unable to find a link that mentions the van was parked at a pullout.

“We just saw their van on the side of the road and we saw a young couple, and the van hood was up like it had broken down and they were sitting in some lawn chairs in the ditch,” she said...”
Tourists found dead along B.C.’s Alaska Highway appear to have been shot: NSW police

Ya, not a deep ditch, for sure. I would describe the van as on the shoulder.

 

[otto]

I suspect LF and CD probably recognized there was an inherent risk in spending the night there, but with the vehicle breaking down as far from help as it did, I understand why they made that decision. They were experienced travelers, and I'm sure it dawned on them there was some potential for the van on the side of the road to be a potential target for robbers. But I don't think it ever even dawned on them that they needed to fear the potential of being visited by 2 homicidal teenagers armed with firearms.

All descriptions of them were that they were happy, relaxing in lawn chairs, snacking, waving and all was well.

That's one reason I'm curious where they stayed on July 13. Maybe they stayed on the side of the highway or at a rest stop. If so, I would expect them to be very relaxed about staying where they were - sensing no urgency to be at a campground or populated location. Maybe they didn't know about highway safety regulations and law.

 

[otto]

Wasn't that a case of someone driving along the highway? Are you suggesting no one is safe driving on highways in Canada?

Of course not. I think there should be more awareness of highway regulation and law. No one should assume that beautiful scenery means absence of criminals and safety hazards.

 

[Zella]

All descriptions of them were that they were happy, relaxing in lawn chairs, snacking, waving and all was well.

That's one reason I'm curious where they stayed on July 13. Maybe they stayed on the side of the highway or at a rest stop. If so, I would expect them to be very relaxed about staying where they were - sensing no urgency to be at a campground or populated location. Maybe they didn't know about highway safety regulations and law.

BBM

Yeah, I think one of the things that drew me to the case was the descriptions of LF and CD taking the mechanical mishap in stride and deciding to make the best of it. I would have come unglued! But I think it's a good insight into their personalities, as well as the fact they were experienced travelers. I think they knew sometimes, on trips, somethings things just happen, and you have to roll with it.

I think in their mind it was just going to be an interesting anecdote for family and friends after the trip was over. "Just a couple of days in, the van flooded, and we spent the night on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere in British Columbia!" And, by all rights, that's all their vehicle breakdown should have ever been.

 

[Snoopster]

Of course not. I think there should be more awareness of highway regulation and law. No one should assume that beautiful scenery means absence of criminals and safety hazards.

Yes, people should be aware, but I think you are promoting "fear", particularly of criminals. I think the risk of nature FAR outweighs that of criminals. I think the risk of criminals is quite low. I do think that we all underestimate the risk of nature far too much. So many people die from the elements of nature.

But to take this case and fan the flames of fear of the bogeyman is excessive in my mind.