Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #21

[sandbar]

Compared to the States where it's almost every day that yet another barely-old-enough-to-shave idiot decides to go on a killing spree.

sbm

There have been more mass shootings than days this year

Probably some of them were old enough to shave, but still...

 

[Ondeckc]

One piece of information that I thought would be answered that, to my knowledge, wasn't. Who was the mysterious bearded man that the road worker saw arguing with Lucas and Chynna? In the end, I guess his identity doesn't matter. All of the evidence, especially the ammo matching the gun, pointed to Bryer and Kam. Without that evidence, I thought the bearded man may have been involved.

 

[sandbar]

One piece of information that I thought would be answered that, to my knowledge, wasn't. Who was the mysterious bearded man that the road worker saw arguing with Lucas and Chynna? In the end, I guess his identity doesn't matter. All of the evidence, especially the ammo matching the gun, pointed to Bryer and Kam. Without that evidence, I thought the bearded man may have been involved.

RCMP said in the report that he has not presented himself to police nor has he been identified.

 

[sandbar]

I'm not sure I believe that there were no indications of a motive, group affiliation, or promotion of a hate agenda on the videos.

With all due respect to RCMP, to say that there was NO INDICATION of any agenda, and then to say that they won't release videos for fear of copycats is a dichotomy of entities.

If there was nothing to "copy", why withhold videos out of fear of copycats? This is a rhetorical question at this point, and I accept and respect RCMP's decision. I also respect their withholding the videos out of respect to the families of Chynna, Lucas, and Leonard.

MOO

100% agree.

I would like to hear RCMP speak specifically about the recovery efforts made to gather info on the hard drives and other computer equipment from the burning/burnt camper and that specifically there was no evidence on those drives of internet searches related to anti-social, para-military, neo/n**i or hate groups.

 

[Kubirai]

Is it possible that someone else could have lit the truck on fire because something smells with the time line.

The truck was reported fifty kilometres south of Dease Lake at 719 am burning yet they were spotted at 11:38 am in Kitwanga, BC thesame day. It's 6 hours and forty minutes to get from deese lake to Kitwanga. Take thirty minutes off to account for the distance it'd take to get from Deese Lake to where the truck was found. That's just over six hours to get there. But yet they magically made it to Kitwanga in four hours. So something stinks.

No. The body and truck fire was near where Highway 37 crosses Stikine River. Check driving time from there to Highway 37 and Kitwanga. The fire was probably started long before 7AM, and they drove very fast on an empty road.

 

[Kubirai]

RCMP said in the report that he has not presented himself to police nor has he been identified.

That sighting may have been unreliable, like Cold Lake. That sketch was quite similar to the US fugitive, causing too much speculation that these confessed killers were innocent.

 

[Schmoosh]

100% agree.

I would like to hear RCMP speak specifically about the recovery efforts made to gather info on the hard drives and other computer equipment from the burning/burnt camper and that specifically there was no evidence on those drives of internet searches related to anti-social, para-military, neo/n**i or hate groups.

Me too. Not publicly though, just to me

 

[ktm44]

Correct, they hadn't charged them by the time they found their bodies, but they had enough ballistics and other evidence to name them as suspects. This gave them "probable cause" which allowed RCMP to get search warrants, etc. necessary to gather more information and evidence in order to apprehend them.

The killers already had quite a head start by the time RCMP discovered they were linked to all 3 murders. Autopsies and evidence testing were still incomplete by the time they reached Manitoba, IIRC. Preliminary autopsy results for Mr Dyck weren't ready until the 23rd, the same day the killers were spotted in Gillam.

JMO, it was surprising to see they still had so much ammo at the end. Everyone was speculating about why the killings stopped, assuming they had run out of ammo.

Question for any locals here: Was their plan to make their way to Hudson Bay and commandeer a boat or ship to go elsewhere realistic? Of course their plan to go down the Nelson River was ill conceived, but is there much ship traffic in the Hudson Bay? It doesn't look like it. They would have needed to go to the Port of Churchill

MarineTraffic: Global Ship Tracking Intelligence | AIS Marine Traffic

I was one of those people that felt that they likely ran out of ammo and was quite surprised at how many rounds they had, with only 20 rounds being purchased with the SKS. It did support AS original comment about them planning on going out in a blaze of glory and speaks to some level of premidiation.

I'm somewhat surprised that he

 

[LadyL]

something's been bugging me since last night

they shaved themselves in preparation for their own deaths yet their last will & testament was to be cremated so why did shaving matter?

 

[Betty P]

100% agree.

I would like to hear RCMP speak specifically about the recovery efforts made to gather info on the hard drives and other computer equipment from the burning/burnt camper and that specifically there was no evidence on those drives of internet searches related to anti-social, para-military, neo/n**i or hate groups.

Why would that information be important to the general public? Why would revealing it be worth the risk of triggering copycat killers?

 

[Solaris420]

LD’s connection to Port Alberni didn’t slip by me (or others).

Sorry, I only joined this discussion a short time ago. What was LD's connection to Port Alberni?

 

[Satchie]

something's been bugging me since last night

they shaved themselves in preparation for their own deaths yet their last will & testament was to be cremated so why did shaving matter?

I believe the shaving was mentioned in the same video as a plan to go back and kill more people. Possibly they believed that being clean-shaven would make them look less like two murderers who'd been hiding out in the bush, and therefore more successful in their "mission".

 

[Kubirai]

Do you all think that the Cold Lake sighting, pulling out of the mud, really happened?

They probably drove from Fairview to Meadowlake without stopping. I will check the exact times in the report.

Their unexpected La Ronge detour may have been for a sleep, food, gas.

 

[Schmoosh]

I believe the shaving was mentioned in the same video as a plan to go back and kill more people. Possibly they believed that being clean-shaven would make them look less like two murderers who'd been hiding out in the bush, and therefore more successful in their "mission".

From the report:

"This video is 32 seconds long and Schmegelsky says they have shaved in preparation for their own death. They now plan to go back to kill more people and expect to be dead in a week"

It's a little confusing, like "we expect to die in a week, but first we're going to shave and go out and kill more people". Like, their facial hair wouldn't grow that much in a week that they'd have to shave again before their end-of-the-week deaths? Weird.

 

[Tilly23]

From the report:

"This video is 32 seconds long and Schmegelsky says they have shaved in preparation for their own death. They now plan to go back to kill more people and expect to be dead in a week"

Thanks for adding the quote from the report in here, Schmoosh.

If it was in preparation for their own death, it does seem odd that they expect the shave to last a week!

It has me remembering all the discussion about how they seemed pretty well groomed in the Meadow Lake video. I suppose in their fantasy world they needed to be ready to die at any time - perhaps in a hail of bullets.

MOO

 

[Solaris420]

Has RCMP released how the two managed to get their hands on so much ammunition? I read they had hundreds of rounds with the same manufacturing no. but had only purchased 20 from the gun store legally.

But the police said there was no evidence of pre-planning or motive. If they had tried to recruit someone else, that would have counted as evidence of pre-planning, and they surely would have said something to this person about motive, while trying to recruit them.

There had to be some element of pre-planning.

I think all evidence of pre-planning or motive was lost in the burning wreckage of their computers. Maybe that's why they bought them with them. I always thought the two having their computers on them meant they actually did leave to find work up north, but I do doubt that now. It seems they were planning to commit crimes the day they left. JMO

 

[JoshuaTree]

Mr. Schmegelsky was found about one and a half metres away, lower down on the slope. He was dressed in full camouflage.
How the RCMP found Canada’s most wanted fugitives with a raven, a Cree trapper and luck

This video is 31 seconds long and McLeod and Schmegelsky state this is their last will and testament and express their wish to be cremated.
RCMP in British Columbia - Overview of Fort Nelson and Dease Lake Homicide Investigation


Guess that suit he bought wasn't a "funeral suit" afterall

 

[Schmoosh]

Thanks for adding the quote from the report in here, Schmoosh.

If it was in preparation for their own death, it does seem odd that they expect the shave to last a week!

It has me remembering all the discussion about how they seemed pretty well groomed in the Meadow Lake video. I suppose in their fantasy world they needed to be ready to die at any time - perhaps in a hail of bullets.

MOO

And look great at the same time while being mowed down in hail of bullets thinking that in no way that might force their families to have a closed casket. Delusional. It boggles any sane mind trying to figure out how theirs worked.

 

[Sillybilly]

Hi, I was one of the posters who was calling for cooler heads before proclaiming K&B guilty on the circumstantial evidence that we had prior to the report.

I was not troll baiting.

I was pointing out that I personally needed more info to judge K&B guilty. I "knew" there was more to know and I was trying to make the point that until the investigative report came out any judgement would be based on curcumstantial evidence. I am concerned (and maybe I shouldn't be?) that what I was reading on WS was coming from people who are potentially jurors and I AM FRIGHTENED to think of those people being responsible for upholding justice.

Here, in a forum, where there is no cost to slowing down, no cost to being level-headed (and, I might add, a perfect place to practice) what I was reading, for the most part, sounded like vigilantes and madmen calling for blood.

I haven't read all the comments since the report and I have only read the report once. Maybe others, like me, prefer to compose a response to information after receiving and digesting it and not prior.

Warning: I am popping in at random to ramble here

Websleuths is a crime discussion group, not a court room. Most WSers are quite capable of being fair and changing their minds if/when additional information becomes available to them. Most cases that result in guilty verdicts are based on circumstantial evidence. Experience tells us that with the circumstantial evidence before them, WSers are rarely wrong with their initial perceptions but are certainly willing to admit if they are. Most jurors, when confronted with all the evidence, can form an impartial opinion and render a proper verdict in conjunction with their peers. At a stage when knowing a person's life can be hinging on their decision, jurors take their responsibility very seriously and are capable of setting aside any preconceived ideas or biases they may have had.

Certainly not directed at you or anyone in particular, but the problem we have with some "devil's advocate" type of posters is them presenting an unbridled defence of the accused at all costs without known facts to substantiate such a position, or even disregarding or refuting those available facts with nonsensical suggestions. One case that springs to mind is the Bosma case where no matter the known facts, certain members had blinders on when it came to Millard's possible guilt. Frequently the wild speculation that screams innocence is not necessarily based on any known fact/evidence available to us at that point in time. As we have to say so often, the presumption of innocence is a judicial principle that applies throughout the judicial process but it does not apply to the general public who are entitled to form their opinions based on the knowledge that is available to them.

Example in this case: How would someone reasonably explain KM and BS running across country in LD's vehicle after he was found murdered nearby their own burned out vehicle. How does one see innocence in that or what is a reasonable doubt explanation for it? Can anyone conjure up a really great explanation for that?

As for any WSers here as potential jurors and their ability to uphold justice, they would then have the whole enchilada in front of them on which to base their decision and I am confident any jury, with the instruction from a learned judge, would render a verdict that was "true and just" regardless of what they thought they knew beforehand.

 

[jaejae]

Here is a Sky News report about this case:

Teenagers hunted over triple murder in Canada planned to kill again, videos reveal

Here is a BBC report:

Canada teenage fugitives admitted murders - police