Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #22

[NJSleuth91]

Oh I know! My post wasn't directed to your comment, it was more meant in regards to AL looking for all the reasonings possible which I find sad but also normal for him to try to rationalize being a parent.

He's also said he wants to prevent this type of thing from happening again. And I think there is something to be said for the overall environment contributing to development.

Crimes stats are kinda weird I find. I think Victoria was dubbed a dangerous city too somewhere. There is high petty theft here and probably in PA because of the drug addicts. So high numbers for crime.

Then you go to Vancouver and there's more gangs and 'big' violent crime. Pick your poison! I lived in Vancouver and no crime experiences, moved to Victoria and had license plates stolen off my car, two bikes stolen, window smashed on car to break in which I found odd and annoying.

Well in that article it also said Port Alberni was 7th in Canada for violent crime. I don't think it actually has the highest murder rate in Canada as Bryer's dad claimed, but it's definitely up there.

But I also wonder what the Canadian definition of "high crime rates" is vs. the US definition. Like my husband grew up in Jersey City in the 80s and 90s, so our definition of "high crime rates" is "accidentally walking into a gunfight between rival gangs while walking down the street," "family car is stolen, presumably by crackheads, but it's such a terrible car that they return it three days later," and "wow, turns out Ramzi Yousef and his buddies were living a few blocks away!"

Lots of transient people from all over Canada flock to the island because we have mild winters, so easy to 'live on the street' here. That creates volume on the mental health/healthcare system here as well (although the problem is Canada wide, it doesn't help having a high transient population).

Yeah there's the same problem in the Pacific Northwest in the US, also. Seattle and Portland actually have much higher crime rates than people would think.

It sounds like Bryer and Kam didn't have a ton of interests or ambitions. They droned out on screens/video games and isolated themselves with each other. They were surrounded by beautiful scenery, hiking and an outdoorsy lifestyle. They could've started a rock band in PA, went to Tofino to surf, Port Renfrew to fish, the big city of Victoria to go to University or meet new people or done many things if compelled to. It's too bad they couldn't or chose to not see a brighter future for themselves.

Technically they did seem to spend a lot of time outdoors, especially with their Airsoft and survivalist stuff. Kam's family was outdoorsy, Bryer's great-uncle said Bryer was into hiking as well, and they were described as going camping in that article with the Nazi Ritalin thing (which sounds like something they did regularly).

But you know how they say "wherever you go, there you are"?

Two potential murderers and two victims always involves complexity because the Crown is required to prove beyond reasonable doubt who specifically murdered who. Clearly both K&B did not both murder L, and both did not murder C if two guns were involved but each victim incurred fatal gunshot wounds from only one of the two guns involved.

Therefore I disagree charges were ready to be filed in the murders of L&C. With two defendants, if reasonable doubt is created over who caused the murder of which victim, there’s high risk both defendants will be found Not Guilty of both murders.

They were both charged with Professor Dyck's murder on July 23rd even though there was only one gunshot wound which was the cause of death. So clearly confusion over which one of them shot whom isn't the reason why they weren't charged in Lucas and Chynna's deaths.

 

[NJSleuth91]

This article is in response to the Maclean’s ranking.

https://www.bclocalnews.com/news/port-albernis-crime-wave-more-of-a-roller-than-a-tsunami-rcmp/

That article does not dispute that crime rates are high, and the officer even says they are rising. It is, in fact, saying exactly what I'm saying about an overburdened mental health system.

Having said that, he pointed to a continuing crime wave affecting communities across the board: “I’m not saying we’re in good shape; I’m saying we’re in the same boat as others.”

Overall, calls for police service in Port Alberni are up by 16 percent over second quarter 2018.

“Society is having challenges right now with criminal activity. It’s not just Port Alberni.”
[...]
“This is a symptom of addiction and people are feeding their addiction,” he said.

“Everyone really is struggling with the same challenge in mental health and property crimes,” said Mayor Sharie Minions.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes, that case was a doozy. RCMP did quite a few strategic curve balls I think in regards to being careful and catching their suspect, I was blown away by the drama of the capture and how it all went down.

I hate to admit, but at the time I was very suspect of the grandparent's and business dealings, so easy to get caught up in internet sleuthing! I felt bad after finding out what really happened, was floored by it all.

But it's so true. Hindsight - and the 'why didn't we see this coming?' is the part that victimizes all the friends, family, coworkers, etc. as well in all this. I'll be interested to see if people come of out the woodwork about B&K once things quiet down or not.

I'm also curious what the seasoned cops on B&K's case know but can't prove as I bet there's more details we'll never know without a trial.

Yes, while we won’t learn the details of the autopsies but all three deaths were described as violent, the Professor's even more so. By the time the manhunt reached Gillam, the RCMP knew the level of viciousness and brutality toward innocent strangers these two were capable of.

I think the summaries of what was stated by B&K on the videos when admitting to the murders was extremely downplayed for the sake of the victims families. ”Cold, no remorse” insinuates to me the two were literally gloating. During the PC, a couple of times I thought Hackett’s expression revealed pure revolution when speaking of the videos.

And they also mentioned they were intending to kill “more people”. I’d be very surprised they used such general terms. I think they named a specific target group, possibly massacring as many policeman as possible and that’s the reason they initially stockpiled ammunition at various locations. IMO it’s a miracle no officers lost their lives and either it was the bad weather or viciously pesky sandflies that caused the two to get their next best idea to hijack a boat to Africa instead.

BBM

“This video is 32 seconds long and Schmegelsky says they have shaved in preparation for their own death. They now plan to go back to kill more people and expect to be dead in a week”

“On July 29, 2019, police located several items belonging to the suspects in the Sundance area, including hundreds of rounds of ammunition from a number of scenes.”
RCMP in British Columbia - Overview of Fort Nelson and Dease Lake Homicide Investigation

 

[MistyWaters]

That article does not dispute that crime rates are high, and the officer even says they are rising. It is, in fact, saying exactly what I'm saying about an overburdened mental health system.

Are you referring to this -

“This is a symptom of addiction and people are feeding their addiction,” he said.”

Drug addiction and mental health treatment are not always synonymous. Many communities suffer from a shortage of detox facilities but the current focus appears to be creating safe injection sites instead (entirely OT to this thread). But I don’t think it’s reasonable to blame the murders of the three victims entirely on Port Alberni’s unknown quality of mental health care. If it were so, we could blame the mental health care system in every municipality throughout the world for every murder that occurs.

If the person doesn’t believe they require help, no mental health care system is able to provide it.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Are you referring to this -

“This is a symptom of addiction and people are feeding their addiction,” he said.”

Drug addiction and mental health treatment are not always synonymous. And I don’t think it’s reasonable to blame the murders of the three victims on Port Alberni’s unknown quality of mental health care. If it were so, we could blame the mental health care system in every municipality throughout the world for every murder that occurs.

If the person doesn’t believe they require help, no mental health care system is able to provide it.

“Everyone really is struggling with the same challenge in mental health and property crimes,” said Mayor Sharie Minions.

I'm not "blaming the murders" on it. I'm saying that lack of adequate mental health care may have been one contributing factor to why warning signs weren't recognized (and with teen killers on an "extinction burst" type of mass violence thing...there are always warning signs). And in cases like this, there usually is some kind of failure of the mental health system, so it's not really a radical speculation. (For example in Columbine, Dylan Klebold wrote that he had "suicidal and homicidal thoughts" on a psychiatric evaluation form several months earlier, and was not further questioned about it.)

In fact, we already know that a lot of warning signs for Bryer, some very blatant, were overlooked for like, 7 years before the spree. Plus there are indications of the mental health system being inadequate with handling his family situation as well (his dad said in one of his interviews that in 2008 or something like that, after one of his arrests, he was court-ordered to see a therapist "once a month," but eventually stopped going due to lack of funds...that says it all, doesn't it?)

 

[MistyWaters]

They were both charged with Professor Dyck's murder on July 23rd even though there was only one gunshot wound which was the cause of death. So clearly confusion over which one of them shot whom isn't the reason why they weren't charged in Lucas and Chynna's deaths.

I think this has been mentioned several times already but once again.....charges were required to be filed by the Crown in order for a Warrant To Arrest to be issued in order for the two to be arrested outside the province of BC. There is no point of the RCMP undertaking a cross-country manhunt if Manitoba RCMP (or police in any other province) were unable to legally facilitate an arrest. But that doesn’t mean the 2nd degree murder charges against both were forever written in stone or that the charges couldn’t be upgraded - or even reduced or dropped against one of the two later upon a plea deal in exchange for incriminating testimony against the other, for example.

This frequently occurs in the US as well, after an arrest and during the months and years prior to a trial, depending on the course of events.

 

[MistyWaters]

“Everyone really is struggling with the same challenge in mental health and property crimes,” said Mayor Sharie Minions.

I'm not "blaming the murders" on it. I'm saying that lack of adequate mental health care may have been one contributing factor to why warning signs weren't recognized (and with teen killers on an "extinction burst" type of mass violence thing...there are always warning signs). And in cases like this, there usually is some kind of failure of the mental health system, so it's not really a radical speculation. (For example in Columbine, Dylan Klebold wrote that he had "suicidal and homicidal thoughts" on a psychiatric evaluation form several months earlier, and was not further questioned about it.)

In fact, we already know that a lot of warning signs for Bryer, some very blatant, were overlooked for like, 7 years before the spree. Plus there are indications of the mental health system being inadequate with handling his family situation as well (his dad said in one of his interviews that in 2008 or something like that, after one of his arrests, he was court-ordered to see a therapist "once a month," but eventually stopped going due to lack of funds...that says it all, doesn't it?)

If AS was court ordered to see a therapist and he didn’t or couldn’t, that’d be considered a parole violation. I can assure you that in Canada we do not send people to prison because they cannot afford to pay for mental health treatment.

 

[poupetty77]

From the same video AS has been commenting on -


Bobby Harper5 days ago
I want to see the videos these guys made.


Al Schmegelsky1 day ago
Trust me, you don’t

Ouch!

I wanted to see a bit of those videos, tbh, but that comment plus the face the police officer pulled while thinking about the video during the conference makes me wonder what was in it. But it also makes me think it's better we don't see them, it would be highly disturbing. And I am already disturbed enough by this case.

Poor Alan, what has he seen and what is he going through.

 

[Seattle1]

Alexis Daish‏Verified account @LexiDaish
Canadian authorities gave journalists more than an hour in a room with the primary investigator of triple killers Kam McLeod and Bryer Schmegelsky. If you were interested in the case, here’s all the details we can now reveal.@9NewsAUS
8:02 PM - 4 Oct 2019 from Los Angeles, CA

What detectives knew when in Canadian manhunt for triple killers

 

[Esprite]

If AS was court ordered to see a therapist and he didn’t or couldn’t, that’d be considered a parole violation. I can assure you that in Canada we do not send people to prison because they cannot afford to pay for mental health treatment.

Yes, a therapist would be appointed by the court who would be covered by the BC health care system. A mental health assessment would first take place to determine possible suicide risk or risk to the safety of others.

 

[poupetty77]

It sounds like Bryer and Kam didn't have a ton of interests or ambitions. They droned out on screens/video games and isolated themselves with each other. They were surrounded by beautiful scenery, hiking and an outdoorsy lifestyle. They could've started a rock band in PA, went to Tofino to surf, Port Renfrew to fish, the big city of Victoria to go to University or meet new people or done many things if compelled to. It's too bad they couldn't or chose to not see a brighter future for themselves.

That is what is being said now, as the perception of them is changing because of the crimes they committed. The didn't seem to care about going to University or having a fly high career, but a lot of people that age don't. They had a job, friends, acquaintances and were said to go to sports events, skate park and parties at the beginning, when they were first named suspects.

Of course, when the media couldn't get the people that knew them to do interviews, they went to anybody who could have seen them/interact with them and they ended up being described as unnoticeable and 2 guys who kept to themselves. Which I am pretty sure anybody is to strangers.

I don't believe that Bryer and Kam were as socially awkward and ostracized as they are now described to be. Which makes it all the more sickening and incomprehensible.

 

[MistyWaters]

Alexis Daish‏Verified account @LexiDaish
Canadian authorities gave journalists more than an hour in a room with the primary investigator of triple killers Kam McLeod and Bryer Schmegelsky. If you were interested in the case, here’s all the details we can now reveal.@9NewsAUS
8:02 PM - 4 Oct 2019 from Los Angeles, CA

What detectives knew when in Canadian manhunt for triple killers

from your link -

“One thing I always wondered was what efforts police made to track the boys via their mobile phones. Police say they reached out to their mobile phone providers back when they thought they may be victims. The investigator says 'We know that the last time Kam's phone is active is on the 17th July and Bryer's is before that. We were consistently checking throughout the investigation to see if phones were on in an effort to track them – they were never turned on.'

In the days after the three victims' bodies were found, police discovered Kam's damaged SIM card. Police admit they still don't know what happened to the boys' mobile phones.

Another question a lot of people had was whether one of the two boys was the ringleader, and the other was just following along. Investigators don't agree with this theory, saying they do not believe there was a definite leader between the two of them – describing their offending as a 'partnership'...”

 

[katydid23]

@NJSleuth91 excellent catch! Funny thing about that photo, it looks clearer on my cellphone screen than it does on the computer screen, but it could just be my computer. Another thing, I noticed if you're viewing the final report website, some of the photos are cutoff if you're reading it in portrait view making it very easy to not even see Bryer at all in that photo. Here's another thing, he's clearly doing that obsessive compulsive check your phone glance that we all do (even when you know there's nothing new to look at) but does he perhaps have WiFi or it just that reflex? I think this really helps narrow down when he changed his Instagram photo. It also answers my question if Bryer burned his phone in the Dodge and Camper fire. Did Kam keep his as well minus the SIM card? You know, ever since the final report came out and it was revealed they were at the McDonald's in Thompson I couldn't help but think he was using their free WiFi and changed it right there that Monday afternoon the 22nd. I know the interpretation can be subjective, but I agree with you and @Grouper.
This is the love of my life and you'll never tear us apart.
https:Question for you also @NJSleuth91 who do you think this mystery someone was, whom was surprised they were still alive? I had wondered if they sent this person a Snapchat of one of the crime scenes but left it vague and open to interpretation. Trolling so to speak. Do you think maybe this anonymous person received a message Monday or was triggered by the Instagram photo change and that was why they came forward on the 22nd or do you think they had waited a few days, perhaps over the weekend before reporting it on Monday to the RCMP. Maybe longer? I asked yesterday if they didn't send someone a Snapchat of one of murder scenes, maybe even the burning truck? But this person was unsure or scared whether or not to come forward for several days?

from your post:
"This is the love of my life and you'll never tear us apart."

That^^^ is how my daughter, a longtime Instagram user, described that photo. I showed it to her, telling her nothing about the 2 boys, and asked what it might mean, to add the butterflies.

She said they are probably announcing they are soulmates, not just best bros anymore.

 

[katydid23]

What does the butterfly mean on Instagram?
The butterfly emoji represents the butterfly, as well as the symbolisms associated with it: positive transformations, hope during a dark time, and new beginnings.
ATW: What does - butterfly emoji mean? - Dictionary.com

https://www.dictionary.com › emoji › butterfly-emoji


Butterfly Symbolism and Meaning
Butterflies are deep and powerful representations of life. Many cultures associate the butterfly with our souls. The Christian religion sees the butterfly as a symbol of resurrection. Around the world, people view the butterfly as representing endurance, change, hope, and life.

 

[srper2]

Also why buy gloves after the first two murders? They were using the same weapons anyway. Unless they were sure to not have touched anything/left any DNA at C and L's crime scene?

There isn't a thing that won't be a why in this case, is it?

I have also been wondering why they would buy gloves after the first murders. I was thinking that maybe the gloves weren't to stop fingerprints etc, but were part of their crazy fantasty. In the RUST game they played, using gloves improves your game and aim. Maybe the tags someone said were found from gloves, were from some sort of tactical/shooters gloves? - An example: - Tactical Gloves. They certainly also used the same guns as the guns available on RUST (the ones they could obtain/afford that were from the game). I have also noticed that on the PUBG game, you could get a rare item, a pair of red sports shoes, which look a lot like the red shoes Bryer wore at times, although Bryers didn't look like hi-tops, Kicks (Red) There is an "iconic" blue campervan in the PUBG game as well! It isn't the same model as Lucas's, and has a white roof, but it is a blue van, Minibus
There is a rare cowboy hat that looks a lot like the hat Bryer started wearing along with his red shoes after the murders, and it has a purple band, PUBG player disappointed after opening 200 crates but was he unlucky? | Dexerto.com interesting that Bryer chose a purple tie to go with his suit, that he apparently carried with him after they burnt their truck. I read somewhere that they played RUST, PUBG and others. (Not saying the games caused this at all, and all MOO!)

 

[Jan424]

What does the butterfly mean on Instagram?
The butterfly emoji represents the butterfly, as well as the symbolisms associated with it: positive transformations, hope during a dark time, and new beginnings.
ATW: What does - butterfly emoji mean? - Dictionary.com

https://www.dictionary.com › emoji › butterfly-emoji


Butterfly Symbolism and Meaning
Butterflies are deep and powerful representations of life. Many cultures associate the butterfly with our souls. The Christian religion sees the butterfly as a symbol of resurrection. Around the world, people view the butterfly as representing endurance, change, hope, and life.

Several threads back, I posted something similar on butterfly symbolism and took some criticism for it.... so I’m glad to see it posted here once again. I don’t think it is to be overlooked. JMO

 

[JudgeJudi]

from your link -

“One thing I always wondered was what efforts police made to track the boys via their mobile phones. Police say they reached out to their mobile phone providers back when they thought they may be victims. The investigator says 'We know that the last time Kam's phone is active is on the 17th July and Bryer's is before that. We were consistently checking throughout the investigation to see if phones were on in an effort to track them – they were never turned on.'

In the days after the three victims' bodies were found, police discovered Kam's damaged SIM card. Police admit they still don't know what happened to the boys' mobile phones.

Another question a lot of people had was whether one of the two boys was the ringleader, and the other was just following along. Investigators don't agree with this theory, saying they do not believe there was a definite leader between the two of them – describing their offending as a 'partnership'...”

I was ready to post these paras. myself but you beat me to it.

I'd just like to add a bit more.

"Around the same time, police receive critical information. According to the report, '…primary investigators became aware of a witness who came forward…the witness knew Mcleod and Schmegelsky and believed the boys may have been involved in the murders.'"

It doesn't say the witness "recognised" K and B , it says "knew".

 

[Jan424]

from your post:
"This is the love of my life and you'll never tear us apart."

That^^^ is how my daughter, a longtime Instagram user, described that photo. I showed it to her, telling her nothing about the 2 boys, and asked what it might mean, to add the butterflies.

She said they are probably announcing they are soulmates, not just best bros anymore.

I think if anyone wants to get a sense of the deep connection between Kam and Bryer, they just need to look at that one photo.

 

[poupetty77]

Several threads back, I posted something similar on butterfly symbolism and took some criticism for it.... so I’m glad to see it posted here once again. I don’t think it is to be overlooked. JMO

I honestly highly doubt that an 18 years old guy would be that deep into the symbolism of butterflies but who knows...

 

[Jan424]

I think the summaries of what was stated by B&K on the videos when admitting to the murders was extremely downplayed for the sake of the victims families. ”Cold, no remorse” insinuates to me the two were literally gloating.

Agree, I can definitely see gloating and I’d even suspected they were mocking as well. Hackett looked repulsed. JMO