Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #22

[NJSleuth91]

Al Schmegelsky1 hour ago
Let’s have a public inquiry, then we all can get some answers on what is going on in Port Alberni, the murder per capita trophy winner in all of Canada


Al Schmegelsky58 minutes ago
A 18 year old girl murdered another girl in Port Alberni while this manhunt was going on. A serial rapist on trial was released back into Port Alberni while this manhunt was going on. My kid wanted out of Port Alberni

Very interesting, I did not know about the two incidents he mentions in his latter comment.

I mean technically he kind of has a point. Port Alberni has the 19th highest crime rate in all of Canada and the murder rate is 10x the national average. It also has a huge drug problem. So it stands to reason that likely inadequate infrastructure was a contributing factor to warning signs being missed. Of course, it's debatable how much that was a contributing factor to this particular murder spree.

I do wonder if Kam actually shot Bryer as we only had one (I believe so?) report saying so.

It was an official police report so...yes. It was also heavily implied in the report that they said in the videos that was what they were going to do.

It sounds like Bryer's dad thinks Kam brainwashed Bryer into this. Which is pretty standard. As I said before, Sue Klebold still thinks Eric Harris brainwashed Dylan Klebold into doing Columbine -- she even wrote a whole book about it! -- and it's been 20 years. Kam's family probably thinks Bryer brainwashed him.

 

[Jan424]

I think it was because they didn’t want to get their hands dirty, they didn’t want to have skin to skin contact with their victim because they were increasing their violence.

Certainly sounds plausible.... but eerie to think about that.

 

[Solaris420]

DBM

 

[NJSleuth91]

Sorry, all I saw were MSM articles mentioning this.

RCMP in British Columbia - Overview of Fort Nelson and Dease Lake Homicide Investigation

"Based on the autopsy findings, the firearms lab report, analysis of the scene and the content of the videos it is believed that McLeod shot Schmegelsky before shooting himself in a suicide pact."

It was also mentioned in the press conference on September 27th, the video of which is on Youtube.

The phrase "the content of the videos" heavily implies to me that they said in one of the videos that was their plan. Probably video #4: "This video is 19 seconds long and they describe they are going to shoot themselves."

The only detail that is not confirmed is that Kam shot Bryer in the back of the head specifically. That was mentioned by Alan's lawyer in a news article, but the specifics were not mentioned in the report of where the gunshot wound was located.

However, it does make sense. I feel like in an assisted suicide, it would be weird to shoot your friend in the face (I mean...what am I saying...it's weird either way! but you know what I mean) and the back of the head is a more logical location. JMO but I also suspect all of their victims were shot in the back of the head from various bits of evidence in the report and MSM.

Also, overly critical sidenote, but does anyone else wish that they could copy-edit the report (or that someone would have)? There are so many run-on sentences, badly phrased things, and even multiple paragraphs that are repeated twice.

 

[Solaris420]

Also, overly critical sidenote, but does anyone else wish that they could copy-edit the report (or that someone would have)? There are so many run-on sentences, badly phrased things, and even multiple paragraphs that are repeated twice.

All the errors in the report really cement my concerns with how the RCMP has dealt with this case.

And sorry, I meant to say "I do wonder if Kam actually shot Bryer in the back of the head as we only had one (I believe so?) report saying so." in my earlier post.

 

[cartman]

Also, overly critical sidenote, but does anyone else wish that they could copy-edit the report (or that someone would have)? There are so many run-on sentences, badly phrased things, and even multiple paragraphs that are repeated twice.

Not to “highjack” your post but YES!

 

[NJSleuth91]

All the errors in the report really cement my concerns with how the RCMP has dealt with this case.

I mean, I don't doubt the main findings, ie. that they did it, and I don't think anything presented in the report was knowingly untruthful.

However I do have a lot of criticisms about how the RCMP handled the case overall as I have said before. Specifically regarding the secrecy surrounding a lot of the information. It turns out they had sufficient evidence to charge Kam and Bryer in Lucas and Chynna's murders by July 24th, and by July 21st they had evidence of a failed murder attempt that showed their M.O. And yet for some reason they never told the public about this. Not only was the level of secrecy completely unnecessary IMO, and fueled a lot of speculation and conspiracy theories -- but it also had the opposite effect of what they probably wanted, in that people even wrote angry letters to the Canadian government about how the investigation was being handled. It was even mentioned in one of the articles about Port Alberni that conspiracy theories about there being a third "real killer" were popular around town. That says it all, doesn't it?

There is also significant evidence to suggest (from interviews and other sources) that Kam and Bryer's families didn't get much more information than we did until the week the report came out. That's messed up.

I also agree with you on the errors. Weren't some people saying one of the timestamps also was probably inaccurate because they couldn't have gotten there from the last location in that amount of time, or something? I don't doubt that they did a lot of work to collect all the evidence and such on this report, but it just makes the finished product look unprofessional to not have a polished "user interface" so to speak. It would only have taken maybe an hour or two to edit, also.

And there are STILL people posting conspiracy theory comments on even the newer videos about this case. Which just proves to me that the way the RCMP handled this case caused a lack of trust among the public. Hopefully they learn something from this...but they probably won't.

 

[CinNC]

This is an old article, from when the teens were still on the run. But there is a very, very interesting video near the bottom of the article that I've never seen before. It is a criminal psychologist talking about developing a profile of KM and BS and what they would be looking for and expecting from them. Bear in mind that this 3-minute "interview" was done while the teens were still being searched for.

From the below link, scroll almost all the way down the page, past other videos (that everyone has seen) to this subheader, and watch Eric Hickey in the blue shirt in the room with bright blue walls. WATCH: Criminal psychologist says teen murder suspects need social media as part of survival
Father of B.C. murder suspect pens book, details troubled life

 

[NJSleuth91]

This is an old article, from when the teens were still on the run. But there is a very, very interesting video near the bottom of the article that I've never seen before. It is a criminal psychologist talking about developing a profile of KM and BS and what they would be looking for and expecting from them. Bear in mind that this 3-minute "interview" was done before the teens arrived in the Gillam area.

From the below link, scroll almost all the way down the page, past other videos (that everyone has seen) to this subheader, and watch Eric Hickey in the blue shirt in the room with bright blue walls. WATCH: Criminal psychologist says teen murder suspects need social media as part of survival
Father of B.C. murder suspect pens book, details troubled life

That interview couldn't have been done before they arrived in Gillam, because they weren't named as suspects until after they arrived in Gillam. The guy also says it's been four days since their last sighting (which was on July 22nd). Interesting that he didn't speculate on the possibility of them committing suicide. He thought they would be breaking into abandoned cabins and stuff...turns out they just walked five miles, made some dramatic videos, and then took themselves out.

Also found this interview the other day (from July 25th):
The mindset of a spree killer

 

[CinNC]

That interview couldn't have been done before they arrived in Gillam, because they weren't named as suspects until after they arrived in Gillam. The guy also says it's been four days since their last sighting (which was on July 22nd). Interesting that he didn't speculate on the possibility of them committing suicide. He thought they would be breaking into abandoned cabins and stuff...turns out they just walked five miles, made some dramatic videos, and then took themselves out.

Also found this interview the other day (from July 25th):
The mindset of a spree killer

Guess I got the timing wrong. I wasn't looking at the timeline - I was just in a hurry to post the link I thought it was interesting in the sense that it gives an overview of what they look for when searching for perps like these two; that is all.
I never said he was right about everything; I just said it was interesting to read about how they build a profile; that's all.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Port Alberni isn't some oddity town where they're spiking the water and pumping out criminals. I know a handful of good, solid, wholesome people from there doing great things with their life!

It sounds to me like typical crime for that size of town in that geographical location. I grew up in a similar type and size of town off the island and same problems AL mentioned. Of course there will always be idle people with idle time in towns 'with nothing to do' who will seek adventure and trouble, that's normal everywhere.

I understand why AL is seeking ANY answer to cope and process what 'turned' his son to act out these things so I think he's analyzing all environmental influences. I'm sure the people of Port Alberni are fine for the most part so hopefully their town can recover from all of this!

 

[MistyWaters]

I mean, I don't doubt the main findings, ie. that they did it, and I don't think anything presented in the report was knowingly untruthful.

However I do have a lot of criticisms about how the RCMP handled the case overall as I have said before. Specifically regarding the secrecy surrounding a lot of the information. It turns out they had sufficient evidence to charge Kam and Bryer in Lucas and Chynna's murders by July 24th, and by July 21st they had evidence of a failed murder attempt that showed their M.O. And yet for some reason they never told the public about this. Not only was the level of secrecy completely unnecessary IMO, and fueled a lot of speculation and conspiracy theories -- but it also had the opposite effect of what they probably wanted, in that people even wrote angry letters to the Canadian government about how the investigation was being handled. It was even mentioned in one of the articles about Port Alberni that conspiracy theories about there being a third "real killer" were popular around town. That says it all, doesn't it?

There is also significant evidence to suggest (from interviews and other sources) that Kam and Bryer's families didn't get much more information than we did until the week the report came out. That's messed up.

I also agree with you on the errors. Weren't some people saying one of the timestamps also was probably inaccurate because they couldn't have gotten there from the last location in that amount of time, or something? I don't doubt that they did a lot of work to collect all the evidence and such on this report, but it just makes the finished product look unprofessional to not have a polished "user interface" so to speak. It would only have taken maybe an hour or two to edit, also.

And there are STILL people posting conspiracy theory comments on even the newer videos about this case. Which just proves to me that the way the RCMP handled this case caused a lack of trust among the public. Hopefully they learn something from this...but they probably won't.

I disagree the RCMP mishandled this case. K&B were still alive when they were named armed and extremely dangerous suspects wanted in connection to three violent murders and I can assure you that police in Canada do not name people as murder suspects on fancy or whim. No doubt the best case scenario would’ve been for the two to realize escape was impossible and allow a peaceful arrest. Even though that didn’t happen, the RCMP couldn’t predict the outcome in advance. They would never release evidence during the course of a manhunt because the RCMP’s only objective was to capture the suspects. Their mandate is not to convict anyone while on the run.

Conspiracy theories flourish with every high profile case because SM provides an audience but it certainly isn’t proof of a lack of trust of police by the Canadian public. Scandalous and farfetched YouTube videos attract clicks, unfortunately, and to a very small segment of society everywhere no amount of proof is ever enough proof of anything. That’s just how it is and why it’s okay for some people to still believe the earth is flat. But just because they believe it, doesn’t make it true.

 

[MistyWaters]

About the travel time from Laird Hot Springs to Watson Lake, Yukon which was also discussed a couple of pages back. —

Notice the Watson Lake time is noted twice in the Report Overview? On the map the first Watson Lake 3:25 time appears to indicate the location where the Alaskan Highway first crosses the Yukon border. The Hwy then verges back into BC for a bit of a distance prior to crossing the Yukon border a second time. Watson Lake is noted at 4:16am. Google Maos indicates travel time from Laird to Watson Lake to be appx 2 3/4 hours. From 1:50am to 4:16am the travel time is 2 hrs 26 min. That seems quite on the mark, only slightly quicker than posted speed limits. IMO.



2019/07/15 1:50 Liard Hot Springs, BC
2019/07/15 3:25 Watson Lake, YT
2019/07/15 4:16 Watson Lake, YT

RCMP in British Columbia - Overview of Fort Nelson and Dease Lake Homicide Investigation

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I disagree the RCMP mishandled this case. K&B were still alive when they were named armed and extremely dangerous suspects wanted in connection to three violent murders and I can assure you that police in Canada do not name people as murder suspects on fancy or whim. No doubt the best case scenario would’ve been for the two to realize escape was impossible and allow a peaceful arrest. Even though that didn’t happen, the RCMP couldn’t predict the outcome in advance. They would never release evidence during the course of a manhunt because the RCMP’s only objective was to capture the suspects. Their mandate is not to convict anyone while on the run.

Conspiracy theories flourish with every high profile case because SM provides an audience but it certainly isn’t proof of a lack of trust of police by the Canadian public. Scandalous and farfetched YouTube videos attract clicks, unfortunately, and to a very small segment of society everywhere no amount of proof is ever enough proof of anything. That’s just how it is and why it’s okay for some people to still believe the earth is flat. But just because they believe it, doesn’t make it true.

I agree with you as well. RCMP may be secretive but it tends to work in their favor in high profile cases as they have to tread carefully and it seem thus far - most suspects in these high profile cases get prosecuted.

They have reasons for their strategies. I remember at the very beginning of the Liknes/O'Brien case - they issued an Amber Alert for the 5 year old Nathan in hopes he was still alive even though after seeing the house I'm sure as seasoned cops they knew it was probably unlikely.

Of course the first thought was grandparent abduction and rumors were flying! Such a heavy, heinous and delicate case. RCMP knew they could not mess up, they played it well and thankfully got 3 consecutive life sentences for the murderer as he rightfully deserved it.

ETA - link, not best source but breaks down the events enough
How the Man Who Committed One of Canada’s Most Gruesome Murders Was Caught

 

[NJSleuth91]

Port Alberni isn't some oddity town where they're spiking the water and pumping out criminals. I know a handful of good, solid, wholesome people from there doing great things with their life!

It sounds to me like typical crime for that size of town in that geographical location. I grew up in a similar type and size of town off the island and same problems AL mentioned. Of course there will always be idle people with idle time in towns 'with nothing to do' who will seek adventure and trouble, that's normal everywhere.

I understand why AL is seeking ANY answer to cope and process what 'turned' his son to act out these things so I think he's analyzing all environmental influences. I'm sure the people of Port Alberni are fine for the most part so hopefully their town can recover from all of this!

I'm not saying it is. (And even in the mythical status "bad" municipalities like Newark and Camden, a significant percentage of the population are just normal law-abiding citizens.)

I'm just saying that high crime and drug abuse rates are generally indicative of a failed and overburdened mental health system. So if Port Alberni has higher than average rates of those things -- which it does -- that could be one reason why so many obvious warning signs were overlooked for years.

Also, growing up in an environment with more violence and criminal behavior, statistically speaking, increases the risk of someone engaging in violence and criminal behavior.

Port Alberni ranked as most dangerous place on Vancouver Island by Maclean's Magazine

It's the 19th most dangerous city in Canada, seventh in the nation when it comes to violent crime.
[...]
Macleans Magazine has released its list of the 229 most dangerous cities in Canada with only one Vancouver Island community in the top 20.

Of the 17 Vancouver Island cities listed, Port Alberni ranked the most dangerous at 19th overall in the country.

The report rates cities based on the Crime Severity Index (CSI), a Statistics Canada measure of police-reported crime that considers both volume and the severity of the crime.

Port Alberni has a CSI score of 137 with the national mark at 70.

I disagree the RCMP mishandled this case. K&B were still alive when they were named armed and extremely dangerous suspects wanted in connection to three violent murders and I can assure you that police in Canada do not name people as murder suspects on fancy or whim. No doubt the best case scenario would’ve been for the two to realize escape was impossible and allow a peaceful arrest. Even though that didn’t happen, the RCMP couldn’t predict the outcome in advance. They would never release evidence during the course of a manhunt because the RCMP’s only objective was to capture the suspects. Their mandate is not to convict anyone while on the run.

Still doesn't explain why they weren't charged with Lucas and Chynna's murders while on the run, even though the police had the evidence to do so on July 24th.

Also doesn't explain why it took over a month and a half after the manhunt ended for the two specific pieces of evidence that I mentioned, which were known about back in July, to be made public.

 

[MistyWaters]

I agree with you as well. RCMP may be secretive but it tends to work in their favor in high profile cases as they have to tread carefully and it seem thus far - most suspects in these high profile cases get prosecuted.

They have reasons for their strategies. I remember at the very beginning of the Liknes/O'Brien case - they issued an Amber Alert for the 5 year old Nathan in hopes he was still alive even though after seeing the house I'm sure as seasoned cops they knew it was probably unlikely.

Of course the first thought was grandparent abduction and rumors were flying! Such a heavy, heinous and delicate case. RCMP knew they could not mess up, they played it well and thankfully got 3 consecutive life sentences for the *** as he rightfully deserved it.

Yeah that’s right on. I sure learned a lot from that Calgary case as well, especially that popular theories pulled from bits and pieces of media stories often have no basis in reality. How horrible it must’ve been for the victims relatives to read SM speculation about AL kidnapping his grandson and running off to Mexico. Meanwhile the real perp was attending weekly psychiatrist sessions and even then nobody had any idea he was capable of such atrocities.

Which is why I don’t quite agree there must’ve been blatant red flags which somebody should’ve noticed to prevent this tragedy. I’m certain anyone who personally knew B or K must be wracking their brains “what did I miss?” and it must be terrible if those same people feel blamed by others for not preventing something they couldn’t possibly know was going to occur. If B&K had murdered anyone other than total strangers, I might feel somewhat differently. But I see them to have gotten a thrill out of being devious, sneaky and conniving, fooling and shocking everyone, much the same as Garland actually.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I'm not saying it is. (And even in the mythical status "bad" municipalities like Newark and Camden, a significant percentage of the population are just normal law-abiding citizens.)

I'm just saying that high crime and drug abuse rates are generally indicative of a failed and overburdened mental health system. So if Port Alberni has higher than average rates of those things -- which it does -- that could be one reason why so many obvious warning signs were overlooked for years.

Also, growing up in an environment with more violence and criminal behavior, statistically speaking, increases the risk of someone engaging in violence and criminal behavior.

Port Alberni ranked as most dangerous place on Vancouver Island by Maclean's Magazine

Oh I know! My post wasn't directed to your comment, it was more meant in regards to AL looking for all the reasonings possible which I find sad but also normal for him to try to rationalize being a parent.

Crimes stats are kinda weird I find. I think Victoria was dubbed a dangerous city too somewhere. There is high petty theft here and probably in PA because of the drug addicts. So high numbers for crime.

Then you go to Vancouver and there's more gangs and 'big' violent crime. Pick your poison! I lived in Vancouver and no crime experiences, moved to Victoria and had license plates stolen off my car, two bikes stolen, window smashed on car to break in which I found odd and annoying.

Lots of transient people from all over Canada flock to the island because we have mild winters, so easy to 'live on the street' here. That creates volume on the mental health/healthcare system here as well (although the problem is Canada wide, it doesn't help having a high transient population).

It sounds like Bryer and Kam didn't have a ton of interests or ambitions. They droned out on screens/video games and isolated themselves with each other. They were surrounded by beautiful scenery, hiking and an outdoorsy lifestyle. They could've started a rock band in PA, went to Tofino to surf, Port Renfrew to fish, the big city of Victoria to go to University or meet new people or done many things if compelled to. It's too bad they couldn't or chose to not see a brighter future for themselves.

 

[MistyWaters]

Still doesn't explain why they weren't charged with Lucas and Chynna's murders while on the run, even though the police had the evidence to do so on July 24th.

Also doesn't explain why it took over a month and a half after the manhunt ended for the two specific pieces of evidence that I mentioned, which were known about back in July, to be made public.

Two potential murderers and two victims always involves complexity because the Crown is required to prove beyond reasonable doubt who specifically murdered who. Clearly both K&B did not both murder L, and both did not murder C if two guns were involved but each victim incurred fatal gunshot wounds from only one of the two guns involved.

Therefore I disagree charges were ready to be filed in the murders of L&C. With two defendants, if reasonable doubt is created over who caused the murder of which victim, there’s high risk both defendants will be found Not Guilty of both murders. This is a reason it’s advantageous to arrest the suspects first and interrogate each of them seperately, then file charges as is the most common sequence of events. Those statements become valuable evidence especially if at least one is anxious to rat out the other.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Yeah that’s right on. I sure learned a lot from that Calgary case as well, especially that popular theories pulled from bits and pieces of media stories often have no basis in reality. How horrible it must’ve been for the victims relatives to read SM speculation about AL kidnapping his grandson and running off to Mexico. Meanwhile the real perp was attending weekly psychiatrist sessions and even then nobody had any idea he was capable of such atrocities.

Which is why I don’t quite agree there must’ve been blatant red flags which somebody should’ve noticed to prevent this tragedy. I’m certain anyone who personally knew B or K must be wracking their brains “what did I miss?” and it must be terrible if those same people feel blamed by others for not preventing something they couldn’t possibly know was going to occur. If B&K had murdered anyone other than total strangers, I might feel somewhat differently. But I see them to have gotten a thrill out of being devious, sneaky and conniving, fooling and shocking everyone, much the same as Garland actually.

Yes, that case was a doozy. RCMP did quite a few strategic curve balls I think in regards to being careful and catching their suspect, I was blown away by the drama of the capture and how it all went down.

I hate to admit, but at the time I was very suspect of the grandparent's and business dealings, so easy to get caught up in internet sleuthing! I felt bad after finding out what really happened, was floored by it all.

But it's so true. Hindsight - and the 'why didn't we see this coming?' is the part that victimizes all the friends, family, coworkers, etc. as well in all this. I'll be interested to see if people come of out the woodwork about B&K once things quiet down or not.

I'm also curious what the seasoned cops on B&K's case know but can't prove as I bet there's more details we'll never know without a trial.

 

[MistyWaters]

I'm not saying it is. (And even in the mythical status "bad" municipalities like Newark and Camden, a significant percentage of the population are just normal law-abiding citizens.)

I'm just saying that high crime and drug abuse rates are generally indicative of a failed and overburdened mental health system. So if Port Alberni has higher than average rates of those things -- which it does -- that could be one reason why so many obvious warning signs were overlooked for years.

Also, growing up in an environment with more violence and criminal behavior, statistically speaking, increases the risk of someone engaging in violence and criminal behavior.

Port Alberni ranked as most dangerous place on Vancouver Island by Maclean's Magazine

This article is in response to the Maclean’s ranking.

https://www.bclocalnews.com/news/port-albernis-crime-wave-more-of-a-roller-than-a-tsunami-rcmp/