Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #22

[JudgeJudi]

Further to my previous post, I'm wondering if this witness was the person who took the photo of them in LD's car.

 

[Jan424]

I honestly highly doubt that an 18 years old guy would be that deep into the symbolism of butterflies but who knows...

Well we will never know, unfortunately. I found it interesting they were there at all. They really didn’t have to be that “deep” into it, it’s pretty easy to find out. Again who knows.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Several threads back, I posted something similar on butterfly symbolism and took some criticism for it.... so I’m glad to see it posted here once again. I don’t think it is to be overlooked. JMO

Butterflies are also a spiritual symbol for life after death because of its metamorphosis, or transformation, from a caterpillar that crawls on the ground to a beautiful, almost ethereal creature that flies through the air. It has also become a symbol for personal growth and spiritual rebirth.

However, that sounds too much for me regarding this pair. If it just meant life after death it might be more appropriate.

 

[Jan424]

I disagree the RCMP mishandled this case. K&B were still alive when they were named armed and extremely dangerous suspects wanted in connection to three violent murders and I can assure you that police in Canada do not name people as murder suspects on fancy or whim. No doubt the best case scenario would’ve been for the two to realize escape was impossible and allow a peaceful arrest. Even though that didn’t happen, the RCMP couldn’t predict the outcome in advance. They would never release evidence during the course of a manhunt because the RCMP’s only objective was to capture the suspects. Their mandate is not to convict anyone while on the run.

Conspiracy theories flourish with every high profile case because SM provides an audience but it certainly isn’t proof of a lack of trust of police by the Canadian public. Scandalous and farfetched YouTube videos attract clicks, unfortunately, and to a very small segment of society everywhere no amount of proof is ever enough proof of anything. That’s just how it is and why it’s okay for some people to still believe the earth is flat. But just because they believe it, doesn’t make it true.

Agree! I’ve been following criminal cases for years here in the US, and it’s very common for the police not to reveal anything (or very little) regarding the investigation to victims family, let alone suspects family. While it may be terribly upsetting and frustrating, I have to believe there is a reason to this method. I don’t know, I think the RCMP did a good, thorough job with what they had to deal with. And conspiracy theories will never cease to exist even when the suspect is convicted and behind bars and/or has confessed. IMO

 

[Jan424]

Butterflies are also a spiritual symbol for life after death because of its metamorphosis, or transformation, from a caterpillar that crawls on the ground to a beautiful, almost ethereal creature that flies through the air. It has also become a symbol for personal growth and spiritual rebirth.

However, that sounds too much for me regarding this pair. If it just meant life after death it might be more appropriate.

Actually that was closer to my previous post way back. It’s possible that’s all they knew... that it had to do with life after death. Maybe a friend mentioned this, maybe they heard it once. Who knows...it was just interesting to me.

 

[CinNC]

I disagree the RCMP mishandled this case. K&B were still alive when they were named armed and extremely dangerous suspects wanted in connection to three violent murders and I can assure you that police in Canada do not name people as murder suspects on fancy or whim. No doubt the best case scenario would’ve been for the two to realize escape was impossible and allow a peaceful arrest. Even though that didn’t happen, the RCMP couldn’t predict the outcome in advance. They would never release evidence during the course of a manhunt because the RCMP’s only objective was to capture the suspects. Their mandate is not to convict anyone while on the run.

Conspiracy theories flourish with every high profile case because SM provides an audience but it certainly isn’t proof of a lack of trust of police by the Canadian public. Scandalous and farfetched YouTube videos attract clicks, unfortunately, and to a very small segment of society everywhere no amount of proof is ever enough proof of anything. That’s just how it is and why it’s okay for some people to still believe the earth is flat. But just because they believe it, doesn’t make it true.

I just love it when people employ critical thinking; thank you for this!

It is SO important to avoid a myopic view and response to things. Not only does this apply to RCMP and police work in general, but it applies to the general public, too.

People tend to see and believe what is put in front of them, without using their mental peripheral vision to consider all perspectives. You illustrate this beautifully in what you have written here. Kudos!

 

[CinNC]

from your post:
"This is the love of my life and you'll never tear us apart."

That^^^ is how my daughter, a longtime Instagram user, described that photo. I showed it to her, telling her nothing about the 2 boys, and asked what it might mean, to add the butterflies.

She said they are probably announcing they are soulmates, not just best bros anymore.

Either that or they were cackling wildly as they put the butterly photo up, thinking "all you stupid people, you have no idea".

 

[Jan424]

from your link -

“One thing I always wondered was what efforts police made to track the boys via their mobile phones. Police say they reached out to their mobile phone providers back when they thought they may be victims. The investigator says 'We know that the last time Kam's phone is active is on the 17th July and Bryer's is before that. We were consistently checking throughout the investigation to see if phones were on in an effort to track them – they were never turned on.'

There it is, they WERE tracking their phones.... of course they were.

 

[JudgeJudi]

From the same video AS has been commenting on -

There’s absolutely no mistaking the theme.

Al Schmegelsky1 day ago
Have you ever been involved in family court that allows abusive mothers to just make stuff up all at the expense of their children and their children’s fathers)No, then you are lucky, those of us that have been through this nightmare, not so much

Al Schmegelsky1 day ago
Everybody knows someone impacted by the bad thing we call ”family “ court, kids and dads are family too , how do we let judges know this?

[Edited by me for brevity]
Al Schmegelsky6 days ago
... I rescued my kid in 2016 only to have port alberni rcmp and vicpd abduct him against his wishes, he truly wanted to emancipate himself from his guardians and he begged and pleaded NOT to be returned to port alberni. Tanya Fletcher has the police file numbers as do a lot of news people. RCMP want to pretend these files don't exist even though I openly discussed them with rcmp Friday afternoon. ...

Al Schmegelsky1 day ago
Cowards you say, you that know them personally how? How about products of a dysfunctional family court system? Come at me fella, Sarah abo was extremely tough on me but she listened to what I had to say. Many are realizing there is a root cause here and that is our abusive family court system that forgets children rights

Al Schmegelsky1 day ago
Rage can be all consuming, you want your motive, here it is. Not from Rcmp, but from a loving parent that personally witness how much harm family court can do to kid’s and their dads based on fabricated “statements” from abusive mothers

Al Schmegelsky1 day ago
RCMP say they appeared cold and remorseless.
All I know about cold and remorseless are my encounters with Bryer’s mother, port Alberni MCFD, Port Alberni rcmp, port Alberni crown.
Is the pot calling the kettle black?

Al Schmegelsky1 day ago (edited)
BigBear Hiker , we don’t know and never will. What we can do is analyze what lead up to these events. Young people should never have this much rage inside them, I am being quite honest here, I accepted my son was involved. That is extremely tough for a parent to deal with

 

[NJSleuth91]

The investigator says 'We know that the last time Kam's phone is active is on the 17th July and Bryer's is before that. We were consistently checking throughout the investigation to see if phones were on in an effort to track them – they were never turned on."

If that's the case then why did a bunch of people report that Bryer's Instagram photo changed around the 22nd? Multiple people mentioned it after the fact on Websleuths and even if you look in the comments for his only post on Instagram, you can see multiple people mentioning it a day or two after it happened.

 

[Runningforthewind]

There’s absolutely no mistaking the theme.

Al Schmegelsky1 day ago
Have you ever been involved in family court that allows abusive mothers to just make stuff up all at the expense of their children and their children’s fathers)No, then you are lucky, those of us that have been through this nightmare, not so much

Al Schmegelsky1 day ago
Everybody knows someone impacted by the bad thing we call ”family “ court, kids and dads are family too , how do we let judges know this?

[Edited by me for brevity]
Al Schmegelsky6 days ago
... I rescued my kid in 2016 only to have port alberni rcmp and vicpd abduct him against his wishes, he truly wanted to emancipate himself from his guardians and he begged and pleaded NOT to be returned to port alberni. Tanya Fletcher has the police file numbers as do a lot of news people. RCMP want to pretend these files don't exist even though I openly discussed them with rcmp Friday afternoon. ...

Al Schmegelsky1 day ago
Cowards you say, you that know them personally how? How about products of a dysfunctional family court system? Come at me fella, Sarah abo was extremely tough on me but she listened to what I had to say. Many are realizing there is a root cause here and that is our abusive family court system that forgets children rights

Al Schmegelsky1 day ago
Rage can be all consuming, you want your motive, here it is. Not from Rcmp, but from a loving parent that personally witness how much harm family court can do to kid’s and their dads based on fabricated “statements” from abusive mothers

Al Schmegelsky1 day ago
RCMP say they appeared cold and remorseless.
All I know about cold and remorseless are my encounters with Bryer’s mother, port Alberni MCFD, Port Alberni rcmp, port Alberni crown.
Is the pot calling the kettle black?

Al Schmegelsky1 day ago (edited)
BigBear Hiker , we don’t know and never will. What we can do is analyze what lead up to these events. Young people should never have this much rage inside them, I am being quite honest here, I accepted my son was involved. That is extremely tough for a parent to deal with

There is probably a lot of truth in what he says. His anger isn't directed toward Kam's family for Kam having the guns, vehicle, and PAL to even leave Port Alberni, it's directed all at Bryer's mother. Mental health services in the country definitely need an overhaul, but at least he's asking all the right questions.

 

[Runningforthewind]

If that's the case then why did a bunch of people report that Bryer's Instagram photo changed around the 22nd? Multiple people mentioned it after the fact on Websleuths and even if you look in the comments for his only post on Instagram, you can see multiple people mentioning it a day or two after it happened.

I thought that the whole thing was odd. I think maybe it was a last-ditch call for help maybe.

 

[poupetty77]

I thought that the whole thing was odd. I think maybe it was a last-ditch call for help maybe.

But that would mean one of their phones had been turned on and you can track a phone that connects to wifi.

So either AS says the truth and Bryer had a phone that he gave him that haven't been tracked or they had a burner phone.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I thought that the whole thing was odd. I think maybe it was a last-ditch call for help maybe.

Well what I'm saying is, if they really had no access to their phones after the 17th, then a) did that actually happen (I can't imagine multiple people from multiple sources that reported seeing it change would all be lying), and b) was it them that changed it?

 

[Runningforthewind]

Well what I'm saying is, if they really had no access to their phones after the 17th, then a) did that actually happen (I can't imagine multiple people from multiple sources that reported seeing it change would all be lying), and b) was it them that changed it?

It's possible that they did have a burner phone.

Would they be able to use a phone without a sim card in it? And would that be tracked if they were only using wifi/

 

[NJSleuth91]

Would they be able to use a phone without a sim card in it? And would that be tracked if they were only using wifi/

My husband says you can use a smart phone as a burner phone as long as you pay for everything in cash including the SIM card and don't input any of your personal information (although they would have had to sign into Instagram). Basically the data exists but the police won't know it's you.

 

[Runningforthewind]

But that would mean one of their phones had been turned on and you can track a phone that connects to wifi.

So either AS says the truth and Bryer had a phone that he gave him that haven't been tracked or they had a burner phone.

With how much Bryer's parents disliked each other, it wouldn't surprise me if he had two phones. If his mother or grandmother was paying the bill and suspected he was using it to text his dad I can see them stop paying for it.

 

[poupetty77]

Well what I'm saying is, if they really had no access to their phones after the 17th, then a) did that actually happen (I can't imagine multiple people from multiple sources that reported seeing it change would all be lying), and b) was it them that changed it?



It's possible that they did have a burner phone.

But if they had a burner phone that would bring a new (unanswerable) question. Why would they have a phone they know nobody can trace, and not post videos on Instagram when they could with Wifi. But record videos that might be found with their bodies if they wanted so bad to be famous. The fear to be caught? Weren't they supposed to crave a fight with the police? They were hardly hiding before going in the bush.

Go figure.

 

[NJSleuth91]

But if they had a burner phone that would bring a new (unanswerable) question. Why would they have a phone they know nobody can trace, and not post videos on Instagram when they could with Wifi. But record videos that might be found with their bodies if they wanted so bad to be famous. The fear to be caught? Weren't they supposed to crave a fight with the police? They were hardly hiding before going in the bush.

Go figure.

I have no idea. I would like to know what the deal is with the Instagram thing -- if it ever even happened, and if so, whether it was them or someone else who did it -- but I don't know if we will ever know.

 

[CinNC]

There’s absolutely no mistaking the theme.

Al Schmegelsky1 day ago
Have you ever been involved in family court that allows abusive mothers to just make stuff up all at the expense of their children and their children’s fathers)No, then you are lucky, those of us that have been through this nightmare, not so much

Al Schmegelsky1 day ago
Everybody knows someone impacted by the bad thing we call ”family “ court, kids and dads are family too , how do we let judges know this?

[Edited by me for brevity]
Al Schmegelsky6 days ago
... I rescued my kid in 2016 only to have port alberni rcmp and vicpd abduct him against his wishes, he truly wanted to emancipate himself from his guardians and he begged and pleaded NOT to be returned to port alberni. Tanya Fletcher has the police file numbers as do a lot of news people. RCMP want to pretend these files don't exist even though I openly discussed them with rcmp Friday afternoon. ...

Al Schmegelsky1 day ago
Cowards you say, you that know them personally how? How about products of a dysfunctional family court system? Come at me fella, Sarah abo was extremely tough on me but she listened to what I had to say. Many are realizing there is a root cause here and that is our abusive family court system that forgets children rights

Al Schmegelsky1 day ago
Rage can be all consuming, you want your motive, here it is. Not from Rcmp, but from a loving parent that personally witness how much harm family court can do to kid’s and their dads based on fabricated “statements” from abusive mothers

Al Schmegelsky1 day ago
RCMP say they appeared cold and remorseless.
All I know about cold and remorseless are my encounters with Bryer’s mother, port Alberni MCFD, Port Alberni rcmp, port Alberni crown.
Is the pot calling the kettle black?

Al Schmegelsky1 day ago (edited)
BigBear Hiker , we don’t know and never will. What we can do is analyze what lead up to these events. Young people should never have this much rage inside them, I am being quite honest here, I accepted my son was involved. That is extremely tough for a parent to deal with

He's not necessarily wrong. He may be focusing on nothing else right now, but he's not necessarily wrong.

I've seen the courts in the US rule in favor of a mother, over and over and over in the same family, when it was the father who was the one doing the parenting, funding EVERYTHING where the kids were concerned, feeding them, clothing them, paying for school functions and trips, taking them on family vacations, and all while paying an insanely inflated (3,000USD/month) amount of child support and he was making an average, middle-class salary. There was a mentally ill child involved who had profound learning disabilities (could not speak, was not toilet trained, functioned at the level of a two year old at 16 years of age, etc.) and the mother would not engage. She literally locked herself in her bedroom at night and left the other young children in the house to deal with it. Yet she was favored by the court repeatedly. I could go on, but its a long story.

So no, AS is not wrong. I know nothing about his ex, but I DO know that this stuff happens more than people know.