Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #22

[Solaris420]

Another small question: do you really think that AS would actually listen to or take any advice that did not support his own version of events or his blame everyone game? Lawyers can only give advice but they cannot make clients heed it.

I'd be surprised if his lawyer even knows he is leaving YouTube comments.

 

[sandbar]

If AS was court ordered to see a therapist and he didn’t or couldn’t, that’d be considered a parole violation. I can assure you that in Canada we do not send people to prison because they cannot afford to pay for mental health treatment.

Do you know if a court would order someone to attend a treatment that required them to pay? Is treatment user fee based?

I'm in Ontario and from what I understand about court ordered treatment here, there may be incidental fees but that would be in a residential setting. The actual treatment would be covered under OHIP, I think.

 

[Jan424]

DBM

 

[NJSleuth91]

sbm
IIRC KM said that in response to something TStC said with the word joyride in his sentence.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudb...n-unknowingly-helps-murder-suspects-1.5229940

"Mom and dad's going to be pissed," Ste-Croix told the two men as he drove up. He said he figured they were local teens out for a rip in their parents' Toyota RAV4, which was stuck and covered in mud.

"They looked at me and said, 'No, mom and dad told me to go for a long joy ride," Ste-Croix said.

And in this interview he specifies it was Kam who said that.

They were 'really nice kids' says Alberta man who inadvertently helped 2 BC teen fugitives

Days later when St.-Croix found out the two were murder suspects their behaviour that day made more sense.

“Only after I found out it all started making sense. Kam made a comment that his parents were OK with him going for a long joy ride."

Another small question: do you really think that AS would actually listen to or take any advice that did not support his own version of events or his blame everyone game? Lawyers can only give advice but they cannot make clients heed it.

Lawyers can drop clients though. He started making comments a few days before the report came out. His lawyer was there on the day the report came out (they gave a brief statement to the media).

Anyway, as I said...we'll see what happens.

 

[SovereignSnake]

sbm
IIRC KM said that in response to something TStC said with the word joyride in his sentence.

@sandbar I know, that's who I was referring to. I should have specified Kam. But I meant, I couldn't picture a 19 year old ever using that kind of wording. It sounded scripted for lack of a better word. But who knows. That whole encounter sounded awkward and uncomfortable. Even the injection of humor in their conversation sounded a bit contrived. I imagine Kam Bryer's hope and enthusiasm was still riding fairly high, then they parked for the night and didn't realize they were stuck until it was broad daylight in a residential area Sunday morning. Although they probably suspected no one knew who they were at that point still. Yet, I can't help but wonder if they had a plan B? What if no one would have stopped? I wonder on a scale of 1 to 10 how screwed they thought they were? Would they have considered suicide right there? I just can't picture that. I also think they both knew gunning someone down in that area was also completely out of the question.

 

[NJSleuth91]

@sandbar I know, that's who I was referring to. I should have specified Kam. But I meant, I couldn't picture a 19 year old ever using that kind of wording. It sounded scripted for lack of a better word. But who knows. That whole encounter sounded awkward and uncomfortable. Even the injection of humor in their conversation sounded a bit contrived. I imagine Kam Bryer's hope and enthusiasm was still riding fairly high, then they parked for the night and didn't realize they were stuck until it was broad daylight in a residential area Sunday morning. Although they probably suspected no one knew who they were at that point still. Yet, I can't help but wonder if they had a plan B? What if no one would have stopped? I wonder on a scale of 1 to 10 how screwed they thought they were? Would they have considered suicide right there? I just can't picture that. I also think they both knew gunning someone down in that area was also completely out of the question.

Well Kam was described as "really funny" by his friends who were interviewed, so maybe he was the type of person who is able to come up with catchy one-liners. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility, especially if they were trying to make the whole thing "cinematic."

And of course it was awkward and uncomfortable...they were fugitives on the run for triple homicide and thought they might be found out at any second...even Tommy Ste-Croix in his interview was like "well that explains why they were acting so nervous and weird."

I also wonder what would have happened if nobody had gotten them out of the mud. I mean most likely they actually would have committed suicide right there, or walked off into some nearby woods and done it. That's generally what people on a spree do when they reach the figurative "end of the road." At least we didn't have to find out....

 

[LadyL]

@sandbar I know, that's who I was referring to. I should have specified Kam. But I meant, I couldn't picture a 19 year old ever using that kind of wording. It sounded scripted for lack of a better word. But who knows. That whole encounter sounded awkward and uncomfortable. Even the injection of humor in their conversation sounded a bit contrived. I imagine Kam Bryer's hope and enthusiasm was still riding fairly high, then they parked for the night and didn't realize they were stuck until it was broad daylight in a residential area Sunday morning. Although they probably suspected no one knew who they were at that point still. Yet, I can't help but wonder if they had a plan B? What if no one would have stopped? I wonder on a scale of 1 to 10 how screwed they thought they were? Would they have considered suicide right there? I just can't picture that. I also think they both knew gunning someone down in that area was also completely out of the question.

I can picture anyone using that wording, 19 or any age

 

[sandbar]

@sandbar I know, that's who I was referring to. I should have specified Kam. But I meant, I couldn't picture a 19 year old ever using that kind of wording. It sounded scripted for lack of a better word. But who knows. That whole encounter sounded awkward and uncomfortable. Even the injection of humor in their conversation sounded a bit contrived. I imagine Kam Bryer's hope and enthusiasm was still riding fairly high, then they parked for the night and didn't realize they were stuck until it was broad daylight in a residential area Sunday morning. Although they probably suspected no one knew who they were at that point still. Yet, I can't help but wonder if they had a plan B? What if no one would have stopped? I wonder on a scale of 1 to 10 how screwed they thought they were? Would they have considered suicide right there? I just can't picture that. I also think they both knew gunning someone down in that area was also completely out of the question.

Sorry, I was mistaken. I mis-remembered, and @NJSleuth91 provided the links. I thought TStC said something about a joyride, and KM was riffing off that. But it was KM's word.

 

[dust bunny]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudb...n-unknowingly-helps-murder-suspects-1.5229940



And in this interview he specifies it was Kam who said that.

They were 'really nice kids' says Alberta man who inadvertently helped 2 BC teen fugitives





Lawyers can drop clients though.He started making comments a few days before the report came out. His lawyer was there on the day the report came out (they gave a brief statement to the media).

Anyway, as I said...we'll see what happens.

Yes, you are right that lawyers can and do drop clients and she was there the day the RCMP report came out. However, there were times, even in that interview, where she looked distinctly uncomfortable when AS was speaking. I am certain that she would never have advised AS to continue his public tirades and attacks on BS's mother (no competent lawyer would ever do so) and I am equally certain that AS will never miss an opportunity, if given, to do so. His latest one-sided YouTube rants serve as proof of this. I apologize to all of you who are (I believe sincerely) convinced that AS's version of events is the gospel truth but I, for one, remain skeptical.

 

[Jan424]

@sandbar But I meant, I couldn't picture a 19 year old ever using that kind of wording. It sounded scripted for lack of a better word. But who knows. That whole encounter sounded awkward and uncomfortable. .

SBM
It’s interesting you mention this because I actually felt the same. I’d always thought of “joy ride” to be an old school term, so I was kind of surprised to hear Kam said it. And I do wonder why this encounter wasn’t included in the final report, but I suppose there may be valid reasons why that happened. JMO

 

[Esprite]

Anyway, I think we have to wait and see what legal actions come as a result of this. And there will be legal actions of some kind.

I really doubt that will stop him from running his mouth in the most inappropriate ways possible.

 

[Runningforthewind]

I really doubt that will stop him from running his mouth in the most inappropriate ways possible.

He still making comments.

 

[FactFinder3000]

Yes, the police could have traced it. However they burned the car about four hours later and -- if there was a burner phone -- probably the phone with it (or otherwise disposed of the phone beforehand). So most likely the police weren't able to actually use that tracking for anything.

[...]

I wasn't trying to say they could trace a burner phone, in particular.

No matter how B&K updated instagram, unless they took some special precautions, the police would have been able to find out where that update came from via the IP address. The method used is irrelevant.

I have a hard time believing that B&K would take the time to update an instagram profile pic and risk revealing their location. I have an even harder time believing that their one update would be to add butterflies to Bryer's instagram pic.

 

[SteveP]

Once again, there is absolutely no evidence that Bryer was alienated from his mother. In fact, he was probably playing his entire family.

I must ask why folks are allowed to bash Bryer's mother, who is also considered to be a victim, but not his father? Seems rather a double standard. Perhaps because she's not telling her side of the story. The squeaky wheel always gets the attention.

Mods cannot be in every room every minute of the day. Any poster can click on the 'report' button and alert a mod to any post that they think violates TOS or needs attention. I do not hesitate to report posts I feel are out of line. I actually think we have a duty, as responsible posters, to do so. JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

I don't think she is advising it but if she thought it could land him back in jail, I think she would tell him to stop.

Maybe she has. It doesn't necessarily mean he is taking her advice, though. Imo

 

[Esprite]

Do you know if a court would order someone to attend a treatment that required them to pay? Is treatment user fee based?

I'm in Ontario and from what I understand about court ordered treatment here, there may be incidental fees but that would be in a residential setting. The actual treatment would be covered under OHIP, I think.

It's the norm for court-ordered treatment to be covered by provincial health care; however, before treatment can happen, a mental health assessment must take place to determine a diagnosis. If the clients disagree with the diagnosis, they quite often either refuse treatment or attend treatment sporadically. This can be problematic if they're out on bail, because the court can order them back to jail for breaking their parole. I believe this happened in this case.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I can picture anyone using that wording, 19 or any age

I can't picture anyone asking their friend to "get together and speak of politics," and yet Bryer texted that to his friend. And his dad said he typically texted by speaking into his phone, which means he actually said it out loud!

I also can't picture two teenagers making a "last will and testament" video where they actually refer to it as such...and yet they did.

Yes, you are right that lawyers can and do drop clients and she was there the day the RCMP report came out. However, there were times, even in that interview, where she looked distinctly uncomfortable when AS was speaking. I am certain that she would never have advised AS to continue his public tirades and attacks on BS's mother (no competent lawyer would ever do so) and I am equally certain that AS will never miss an opportunity, if given, to do so. His latest one-sided YouTube rants serve as proof of this. I apologize to all of you who are (I believe sincerely) convinced that AS's version of events is the gospel truth but I, for one, remain skeptical.

Well, we shall see if she drops him as a client or not.

I'm not saying it's the gospel truth or any kind of truth. All I said was that some of his claims have some possible third-party corroboration.

I wasn't trying to say they could trace a burner phone, in particular.

No matter how B&K updated instagram, unless they took some special precautions, the police would have been able to find out where that update came from via the IP address. The method used is irrelevant.

I have a hard time believing that B&K would take the time to update an instagram profile pic and risk revealing their location. I have an even harder time believing that their one update would be to add butterflies to Bryer's instagram pic.

Yes, I'm aware the police would have been able to find it out. However what I was saying was, if they disposed of the phone immediately afterwards, by the time the police were able to figure out where the update came from, they were probably long gone and maybe were even in the woods by then.

The only reason why I mentioned a possible burner phone is because the police said their main phones weren't used after the 17th (and Bryer's was turned off even earlier than that).

The update wasn't to add butterflies. It changed the picture entirely -- from a picture of Bryer by himself to the one of him with Kam, IIRC. @cartman that's what you said happened, right?

Either way it seems very likely that the profile picture change happened due to all the accounts of it happening. However, we don't know if Kam and Bryer updated it or if someone else did it, like a troll. And we don't know how much the police know about it or how much they investigated it. Because the report is just a summary of findings and doesn't include everything.

 

[katydid23]

I honestly highly doubt that an 18 years old guy would be that deep into the symbolism of butterflies but who knows...

Well, why would 2 18 year olds, on the run from the law, purposely post that picture with butterflies all around their heads?

There improbably some kind of reason as I dont think it was random. ?

 

[LadyL]

Well, why would 2 18 year olds, on the run from the law, purposely post that picture with butterflies all around their heads?

There improbably some kind of reason as I dont think it was random. ?

it's just a filter
there are thousands of them

 

[katydid23]

Either that or they were cackling wildly as they put the butterly photo up, thinking "all you stupid people, you have no idea".

Maybe, but I don't think so. I think they really did have a very deep, emotional connection. They were very close, kind of devoted to each other.
I think they. did feel more like soulmates than 'best bros.' Neither of them had a girlfriend, as far as we have heard. It feels like they were emotionally invested in their relationship, JMO.