Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #22

[CanadianSleuther]

Well, it's a normal reaction but he really shouldn't have kept doing all those interviews. He's not doing himself any good. People are beginning to get angry and disgusted with him.
It's very hurtful for the families of the victims to hear him go on and on about his loss and how his son's life was cut short and he's not in pain anymore when their loved ones had no choice and actually enjoyed living their lives.

Imo

I think he's not in his right mind emotionally. I think he feels he has nothing else to lose, so is going to try and defend his son as best as he can.

 

[Jan424]

He said in a recent Youtube comment that he accepted Bryer's role in this. I think he's just saying that it never would have happened if not for Kam's influence, ie. Kam had the vehicle, money, gun license, knowledge of the area, probably came up with the plan, etc. I think this whole thing was a mutual decision but I do think Kam was the leader. (And I think the RCMP may also suspect Kam was the leader but they aren't going to come out and say it without definitive evidence.)

Plus I think he's having difficulty getting past the fact of Kam shooting Bryer, and sees that as evidence of Kam being the one in control. Personally, I think that whole assisted suicide thing was Bryer's idea.

He may say he has accepted Bryer’s role, and there’s indisputable proof his son was one of two killers, but then he makes other comments that suggest otherwise. He almost makes it sound like Bryer was some innocent country bumpkin who went along blindly and was forced to pull the trigger as well. Now, I can absolutely see him having difficulty with the knowledge Kam shot his son. It may be too much for this man to bear, and I really do hope he somehow gets help to cope, as I hardly think it will get any easier. Maybe this is really my point.
On another note, I’m 50/50 with Kam as a leader. Maybe, like Thelma and Louise, it began that way, but I think Bryer hit his stride before too long. JMHO

 

[Jan424]

SBM
It's very hurtful for the families of the victims to hear him go on and on about his loss and how his son's life was cut short and he's not in pain anymore when their loved ones had no choice and actually enjoyed living their lives.

THIS^^

 

[CanadianSleuther]

He may say he has accepted Bryer’s role, and there’s indisputable proof his son was one of two killers, but then he makes other comments that suggest otherwise. He almost makes it sound like Bryer was some innocent country bumpkin who went along blindly and was forced to pull the trigger as well. Now, I can absolutely see him having difficulty with the knowledge Kam shot his son. It may be too much for this man to bear, and I really do hope he somehow gets help to cope, as I hardly think it will get any easier. Maybe this is really my point.
On another note, I’m 50/50 with Kam as a leader. Maybe, like Thelma and Louise, it began that way, but I think Bryer hit his stride before too long. JMHO

I don't think it even needs to be a clear Leader/Following dynamic. Even if Bryer had equal input, equal role in planning, Kam brought more to the table with having a vehicle, driver's license, PAL card, etc. I'm sure Kam listened and made any stops, decisions etc. Bryer said. But the dynamic in general is Kam was the one who made the final decision.

 

[NJSleuth91]

He may say he has accepted Bryer’s role, and there’s indisputable proof his son was one of two killers, but then he makes other comments that suggest otherwise. He almost makes it sound like Bryer was some innocent country bumpkin who went along blindly and was forced to pull the trigger as well. Now, I can absolutely see him having difficulty with the knowledge Kam shot his son. It may be too much for this man to bear, and I really do hope he somehow gets help to cope, as I hardly think it will get any easier. Maybe this is really my point.

As I said, it's the same with Columbine (I know I keep referencing Columbine...but it seems like there's a lot of overlap there). Sue Klebold acts like her son was just some poor depressed lost kid who was brainwashed into Columbine by Eric, who she literally compares to Hitler in her book. When the fact is Dylan wrote about going on a killing spree before Eric ever did, and was mocking the victims as they died. Meanwhile Eric Harris' family has never spoken publicly about the spree.

On another note, I’m 50/50 with Kam as a leader. Maybe, like Thelma and Louise, it began that way, but I think Bryer hit his stride before too long. JMHO

Leader vs. follower dynamics in a killer duo don't really have to do with culpability or which one was morally worse. In fact oftentimes the follower does the "dirty work." It has to do with more who the dominant person is and who comes up with the plan and all that. I think Kam was the more dominant person historically in their friendship, and it's most likely that he was the dominant person during the spree for the reasons I listed.

However I don't think the leader/follower dynamic is as clear-cut as, for example, the DC sniper case. These guys were the same age, same gender, probably about the same intelligence level (or lack thereof -- sorry, couldn't resist), and were friends for 14 years, so they had more of an equal balance of power than many other killer duos. But I do think Kam was still the more dominant one and that it was likely his idea to begin with given he had been to the area many times.

 

[Jan424]

I don't think it even needs to be a clear Leader/Following dynamic. Even if Bryer had equal input, equal role in planning, Kam brought more to the table with having a vehicle, driver's license, PAL card, etc. I'm sure Kam listened and made any stops, decisions etc. Bryer said. But the dynamic in general is Kam was the one who made the final decision.

Final decision? As in ending Bryer’s life?

 

[CanadianSleuther]

Final decision? As in ending Bryer’s life?

I think Bryer asked Kam to end his life. I mean in final decision as in, any destination they went too. Bryer as far as we know didn't drive.

 

[Esprite]

He didn't live with his mother and her boyfriend, after he was brought back from Victoria, he lived with his grandmother. Also, on a separate note, I'm sure one of the reasons Bryer's mom held on to custody of her son was because Alan probably had to pay a monthly child support for Bryer until B turned 18 years.

Yes, I'm aware, but they still lived in the same community. It's also doubtful that providing a home for a child, and paying monthly child support is possible when one is homeless. Could be the reason that Bryer returned to PA.

 

[Jan424]

As I said, it's the same with Columbine (I know I keep referencing Columbine...but it seems like there's a lot of overlap there). Sue Klebold acts like her son was just some poor depressed lost kid who was brainwashed into Columbine by Eric, who she literally compares to Hitler in her book. When the fact is Dylan wrote about going on a killing spree before Eric ever did, and was mocking the victims as they died. Meanwhile Eric Harris' family has never spoken publicly about the spree.



Leader vs. follower dynamics in a killer duo don't really have to do with culpability or which one was morally worse. In fact oftentimes the follower does the "dirty work." It has to do with more who the dominant person is and who comes up with the plan and all that. I think Kam was the more dominant person historically in their friendship, and it's most likely that he was the dominant person during the spree for the reasons I listed.

However I don't think the leader/follower dynamic is as clear-cut as, for example, the DC sniper case. These guys were the same age, same gender, probably about the same intelligence level (or lack thereof -- sorry, couldn't resist), and were friends for 14 years, so they had more of an equal balance of power than many other killer duos. But I do think Kam was still the more dominant one and that it was likely his idea to begin with given he had been to the area many times.

Agree, particularly with the Columbine reference. I realize sometimes the follower does the dirty work and all that but, for instance, say Bryer did most of the killing.... hypothetically.... it’s possible he actually enjoyed it and it wasn’t dirty work to him. Alternatively Kam could be looked at as doing all the dirty, grunt work in driving, paying their way most places, pumping gas, maybe even he torched the cars. We really don’t know how this dynamic played out with these two on their killing spree. I agree it feels like Kam was more of a leader or dominant, but I really do feel like they were both calling the shots and had their roles to play. I mean, who knows truly.... I don’t think there’s any right or wrong answer to this though.
MOO

 

[Jan424]

I think Bryer asked Kam to end his life. I mean in final decision as in, any destination they went too. Bryer as far as we know didn't drive.

Could be.... sure I can see Kam suggesting where the victim opportunities might be better.

 

[CanadianSleuther]

Alternatively Kam could be looked at as doing all the dirty, grunt work in driving, paying their way most places, pumping gas, maybe even he torched the cars.

I have a feeling that Bryer torched the vehicles, particularly the truck. I could see Kam having a hard time destroying his own property.

 

[LoisLane]

Well, it's a normal reaction but he really shouldn't have kept doing all those interviews. He's not doing himself any good. People are beginning to get angry and disgusted with him.
It's very hurtful for the families of the victims to hear him go on and on about his loss and how his son's life was cut short and he's not in pain anymore when their loved ones had no choice and actually enjoyed living their lives.

Imo

IMO the victim’s families are not spending any of their energy reading YouTube comments and rewatching news reports.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Agree, particularly with the Columbine reference. I realize sometimes the follower does the dirty work and all that but, for instance, say Bryer did most of the killing.... hypothetically.... it’s possible he actually enjoyed it and it wasn’t dirty work to him.

Yes, that is possible (I meant "dirty work" in the objective sense), but that doesn't preclude him from being the follower. Sometimes the follower is just as into it.

However it seems from the evidence like the killings were carried out equally.

Alternatively Kam could be looked at as doing all the dirty, grunt work in driving, paying their way most places, pumping gas

Or you could see that as indicating he was the leader because those are all notable signifiers of power, especially to teenagers. Bryer quite literally could not go anywhere without him. Kam hypothetically could have gone out and done this whole thing by himself, whereas Bryer didn't even have the ability to leave Port Alberni. That's a big reason why I find it hard to believe that Bryer was either the leader or complete equals with Kam.

Plus, it turns out that this was carried out in territory Kam was familiar with. Whereas Bryer had never been off Vancouver Island before. That indicates to me that Kam probably came up with the entire plan.

maybe even he torched the cars.

I'm pretty sure they both torched the cars.

We really don’t know how this dynamic played out with these two on their killing spree. I agree it feels like Kam was more of a leader or dominant, but I really do feel like they were both calling the shots and had their roles to play. I mean, who knows truly.... I don’t think there’s any right or wrong answer to this though.
MOO

Well that's my opinion on it. Who knows. But I do think that even if the RCMP suspects Kam was the leader, they don't have enough definitive evidence to feel comfortable putting it in the report -- especially because there could be a backlash from Kam and Bryer's families.

I think Bryer asked Kam to end his life.

I think that was his ideal fantasy of how he wanted to die.

 

[Jan424]

I have a feeling that Bryer torched the vehicles, particularly the truck. I could see Kam having a hard time destroying his own property.

I’ve no idea who torched what, but I think at that point Kam had other more pressing concerns. Also they torched their beloved computer towers too. Again, though, who really knows who did the torching, maybe they took turns. I was trying to point out I think this was a pretty equal killing spree. Of course, JMO

 

[Optics]

Yes, I'm aware, but they still lived in the same community. It's also doubtful that providing a home for a child, and paying monthly child support is possible when one is homeless. Could be the reason that Bryer returned to PA.

In 2016 when he was returned to Port Alberni, his father was working. His father is a unionized carpenter, he doesn't have to be working full time to earn a decent salary - that aside his father WAS working when his son was with him those few months in Victoria. As for the issue of 'homeless', there are varying degrees of that aspect, and I don't see any evidence where Alan lived in a tent camp in the woods. The problem in British Columbia the past few years and especially in the "lower mainland areas" of Vancouver, Victoria, and further up many parts of Vancouver Island is that housing and renting apartments has become astronomical . In my view it's irrelevant at this point, I'm pretty sure Alan is not living on the streets.

 

[MsBetsy]

IMO the victim’s families are not spending any of their energy reading YouTube comments and rewatching news reports.

Well, Chynna's sister made a comment about it which sounded like she was pretty hurt and angry, to me. I would be to.

 

[Jan424]

Yes, that is possible (I meant "dirty work" in the objective sense), but that doesn't preclude him from being the follower. Sometimes the follower is just as into it.

However it seems from the evidence like the killings were carried out equally.



Or you could see that as indicating he was the leader because those are all notable signifiers of power, especially to teenagers. Bryer quite literally could not go anywhere without him. Kam hypothetically could have gone out and done this whole thing by himself, whereas Bryer didn't even have the ability to leave Port Alberni. That's a big reason why I find it hard to believe that Bryer was either the leader or complete equals with Kam.

Plus, it turns out that this was carried out in territory Kam was familiar with. Whereas Bryer had never been off Vancouver Island before. That indicates to me that Kam probably came up with the entire plan.



I'm pretty sure they both torched the cars.



Well that's my opinion on it. Who knows. But I do think that even if the RCMP suspects Kam was the leader, they don't have enough definitive evidence to feel comfortable putting it in the report -- especially because there could be a backlash from Kam and Bryer's families.



I think that was his ideal fantasy of how he wanted to die.

Yes Kam has the car and likely planned their route etc. To me they seemed like bookends though.... different sides of the same coin, so I guess that’s why I think this was more of a partnership (using the RCMP word) on the road. And I also think they both torched the cars, I was using that as an example. Again we don’t know for sure... like so much else. IMO

 

[Iwondertoo]

Oh I'm sure that's what it is, but at the end of the day, it's really not reasonable. I'm sure Kam's family saw their son as sweet and innocent and want to blame Bryer for leading him astray, but they haven't done so publicly, and that wouldn't be any more fair than Bryer's parent trying to lay all the blame on Kam, either. I feel terrible for all the families involved--both victims and suspects--but I think Al is just hurting himself by lashing out and ranting like this on YouTube comments.

BBM

I'm not so sure this commenting on Youtube is bad for AS. He seems to ignore the ridiculous and hateful comments and just replies to people who are asking reasonable questions. He's being quite respectful and keeping the conversation on track...in his own way, of course.

HE DOES need an outlet to talk about his grief. Being homeless, unemployed, and possibly living in his vehicle, this may be all the help he has access too right now - at this very moment. He must be hurting desperately (as are all the other families).

I also wouldn't call AS lashing out and ranting. I think he's holding his own so far. Hey, I'm as guilty as the next guy for thinking AS needed help since the beginning of this event but this may be his only way right now for reaching out for someone to talk to.

MOO

 

[Optics]

IMO the victim’s families are not spending any of their energy reading YouTube comments and rewatching news reports.

Depending on how computer literate people are or not, if it was my child, or related to me, I'd be reading the news etc. As far as the victim's other families, true they aren't vocalizing anything, but isn't that part of our problem too as sleuthers? We kind of contradict ourselves in sleuthing this case. Some public disparage Alan for being public - while at the same time get frustrated at "the lack of information". We all draw to what he says continuously. Perhaps this actually is one parent's way of trying to get through the horror of his only family member. Aren't people always told "It's best to talk about your situation"??? To be honest at this point - I feel the other family members will have a far more difficult road ahead of them, as compared to Alan. Why do we and most comments always focus toward Bryer? One reason is because we can't wedge that door open on Kam McLeod.....and we must always remember, Bryer was only one half of this 'equation'. I feel because we have nothing on McLeod we tend to build Bryer into a bigger monster than he was perhaps. Alan is telling the truth: it was Bryer's best friend's truck/camper, guns, driving ability, money, etc etc., - So rather than extensively re-parsing Bryer the big unanswered question is Kam McLeod - who I feel without doubt was the more dominant.

 

[Zella]

BBM

I'm not so sure this commenting on Youtube is bad for AS. He seems to ignore the ridiculous and hateful comments and just replies to people who are asking reasonable questions. He's being quite respectful and keeping the conversation on track...in his own way, of course.

HE DOES need an outlet to talk about his grief. Being homeless, unemployed, and possibly living in his vehicle, this may be all the help he has access too right now - at this very moment. He must be hurting desperately (as are all the other families).

I also wouldn't call AS lashing out and ranting. I think he's holding his own so far. Hey, I'm as guilty as the next guy for thinking AS needed help since the beginning of this event but this may be his only way right now for reaching out for someone to talk to.

MOO

I never said he was lashing out at other commenters. But he is clearly lashing out at other people he would rather blame than his own son, who was clearly not a hostage and an active participant in multiple homicides, and ignoring established facts about the case that don't support his version of events. MOO I know he's grieving, and his response is a very natural human instinct, but it's not doing himself, his late son, or anyone else any favors. The whole thing is very sad, but I don't think any of that is really cathartic for him.