Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #22

[Jan424]

Well...I wouldn't go that far...they both turned out to be worse than a lot of us originally expected....

SBM
Totally way worse.

 

[Zella]

I doubt he cares. He doesn't have any assets. But I don't think he would care even if he did. This is his only raison d'etre now.

Libel is apparently something covered by both civil and criminal law in Canada. It is an imprisonable offense if it is handled under criminal law.

Criminal Defamation Laws in North America

 

[NJSleuth91]

Libel is apparently something covered by both civil and criminal law in Canada. It is an imprisonable offense if it is handled under criminal law.

Criminal Defamation Laws in North America

Again...I doubt he cares.

 

[Iwondertoo]

He very well could be opening himself up to a libel lawsuit from multiple parties with some of the accusations he is making. That is NOT doing himself any favors.

I agree! It's not wise from a normal perspective.

But he may be putting his mental health first and his need to talk.

He really has nothing to sue for.

 

[Zella]

DBM

 

[LoisLane]

Depending on how computer literate people are or not, if it was my child, or related to me, I'd be reading the news etc. As far as the victim's other families, true they aren't vocalizing anything, but isn't that part of our problem too as sleuthers? We kind of contradict ourselves in sleuthing this case. Some public disparage Alan for being public - while at the same time get frustrated at "the lack of information". We all draw to what he says continuously. Perhaps this actually is one parent's way of trying to get through the horror of his only family member. Aren't people always told "It's best to talk about your situation"??? To be honest at this point - I feel the other family members will have a far more difficult road ahead of them, as compared to Alan. Why do we and most comments always focus toward Bryer? One reason is because we can't wedge that door open on Kam McLeod.....and we must always remember, Bryer was only one half of this 'equation'. I feel because we have nothing on McLeod we tend to build Bryer into a bigger monster than he was perhaps. Alan is telling the truth: it was Bryer's best friend's truck/camper, guns, driving ability, money, etc etc., - So rather than extensively re-parsing Bryer the big unanswered question is Kam McLeod - who I feel without doubt was the more dominant.

I agree with everything you say here. I am sure the families have kept up with the news and the summary report in the news when it was released and they will come across any other stories that are publicized forever on. I just don’t think they are reading YouTube comments to stay informed especially at this point in time.

If family members and loved ones of the victims are searching for comments on YouTube then maybe it’s because they themselves are not satisfied or questioning the information they have received regarding the investigation. I do believe they have more support whether it be within their family/friends/church network and access to counselling so they can talk and share their feelings and grieve in a safe and supportive environment. For someone in AS’s position he is not as fortunate in that aspect. He very well could come out of this mentally okay because of his openness and maybe he has over saturated his position as the vocal parent of a murderer that it has prevented others from speaking publicly. But I suspect the other families have their circle and they are further “ahead” of AS in most aspects. But as much as AS is focused on getting to the root cause and justice for children manipulated by family court and child services etc, etc, I wonder if those who have such strong negativity towards AS are using his behaviours to conclude that it is all his fault (which it is not IMO) and he is just showing the world that as the truth. And if that’s the case then that is just sad and selfish that anyone involved in BS’s upbringing could sit back and think they are off the hook because “look at what they had to deal with”.

As for sleuthing and then claiming it’s too much and/or not enough.. I just can’t handle that argument on either side. We are on short leashes and have our own limitations and judgements here even behind our secret identities.. lol. I understand the reasons for the rules but sometimes it’s just not really sleuthing or way too tight around here. I even have a problem when “sleuths” blame reasonable questions or current event connections or theories as conspiracy and how that also can shutdown a potentially productive conversation (I do appreciate censorship and respect for privacy etc and why that is reasonable and responsible). Anyways ranting and not making sense anymore so I will stop. Long posts make me crazy.

Oh and also my new thing is to blame MSM for exploiting Bryer because they couldn’t get anything on Kam.

 

[Jan424]

DBM

 

[LoisLane]

I never said he was lashing out at other commenters. But he is clearly lashing out at other people he would rather blame than his own son, who was clearly not a hostage and an active participant in multiple homicides, and ignoring established facts about the case that don't support his version of events. MOO I know he's grieving, and his response is a very natural human instinct, but it's not doing himself, his late son, or anyone else any favors. The whole thing is very sad, but I don't think any of that is really cathartic for him.

But AS has accepted that BS killed innocent people. He doesn’t accept the suicide claim because his son was shot in the back of the head by KM before he killed himself. He may have been more accepting of that as a consensual agreement if it was described as so but as far as I can tell from the final report is that they made a video saying they were going to die by suicide - not a murder suicide or assisted suicide so for me in this specific matter he has every right to raise the alarm and question the conclusion that was made by the authority.

 

[Optics]

I agree with everything you say here. I am sure the families have kept up with the news and the summary report in the news when it was released and they will come across any other stories that are publicized forever on. I just don’t think they are reading YouTube comments to stay informed especially at this point in time.

If family members and loved ones of the victims are searching for comments on YouTube then maybe it’s because they themselves are not satisfied or questioning the information they have received regarding the investigation. I do believe they have more support whether it be within their family/friends/church network and access to counselling so they can talk and share their feelings and grieve in a safe and supportive environment. For someone in AS’s position he is not as fortunate in that aspect. He very well could come out of this mentally okay because of his openness and maybe he has over saturated his position as the vocal parent of a murderer that it has prevented others from speaking publicly. But I suspect the other families have their circle and they are further “ahead” of AS in most aspects. But as much as AS is focused on getting to the root cause and justice for children manipulated by family court and child services etc, etc, I wonder if those who have such strong negativity towards AS are using his behaviours to conclude that it is all his fault (which it is not IMO) and he is just showing the world that as the truth. And if that’s the case then that is just sad and selfish that anyone involved in BS’s upbringing could sit back and think they are off the hook because “look at what they had to deal with”.

As for sleuthing and then claiming it’s too much and/or not enough.. I just can’t handle that argument on either side. We are on short leashes and have our own limitations and judgements here even behind our secret identities.. lol. I understand the reasons for the rules but sometimes it’s just not really sleuthing or way too tight around here. I even have a problem when “sleuths” blame reasonable questions or current event connections or theories as conspiracy and how that also can shutdown a potentially productive conversation (I do appreciate censorship and respect for privacy etc and why that is reasonable and responsible). Anyways ranting and not making sense anymore so I will stop. Long posts make me crazy.

Oh and also my new thing is to blame MSM for exploiting Bryer because they couldn’t get anything on Kam.

Yes Agree 100%

 

[Zella]

But AS has accepted that BS killed innocent people. He doesn’t accept the suicide claim because his son was shot in the back of the head by KM before he killed himself. He may have been more accepting of that as a consensual agreement if it was described as so but as far as I can tell from the final report is that they made a video saying they were going to die by suicide - not a murder suicide or assisted suicide so for me in this specific matter he has every right to raise the alarm and question the conclusion that was made by the authority.

He literally implies that Bryer knew nothing until Kam picked him up without warning and then took him to a different location that he didn't expect, ignoring the fact Bryer clearly knew about the trip in advance and told other people the correct destination. That goes beyond questioning the suicide narrative and almost implies Bryer was basically lured under false pretenses.

 

[LoisLane]

He literally implies that Bryer knew nothing until Kam picked him up without warning and then took him to a different location that he didn't expect, ignoring the fact Bryer clearly knew about the trip in advance and told other people the correct destination. That goes beyond questioning the suicide narrative and almost implies Bryer was basically lured under false pretenses.

Well that part for me is just one small logistics part that he is having trouble digesting. We have BS’s maternal side who says they were going to the Yukon (we don’t know for certain if they were also told AB do we?).

But he has accepted that his son murdered. I guess it’s the piece by piece that he is analyzing. So for the suicide conclusion it doesn’t add up for him because of the potential it could have been a murder-suicide conclusion.

 

[Zella]

Well that part for me is just one small logistics part that he is having trouble digesting. We have BS’s maternal side who says they were going to the Yukon (we don’t know for certain if they were also told AB do we?).

But he has accepted that his son murdered. I guess it’s the piece by piece that he is analyzing. So for the suicide conclusion it doesn’t add up for him because of the potential it could have been a murder-suicide conclusion.

Bryer's great uncle and grandmother both said Kam and Bryer were going to the Yukon, and the great uncle said he was told about it the day before. The only person who was told Alberta was Al, and I don't think that is a minor logistical detail at all that is now being changed. That's a pretty significant allegation--that his son was deceived about the destination and unaware of any plans before the departure--that is directly refuted by other people in Bryer's family. Bryer lied to his dad. And Al can't accept it, so in his eyes, it's Kam's fault rather than Bryer's. MOO

 

[FactFinder3000]

Bryer wanted to start a militia.

Bryer wanted to talk politics.

Bryer constantly wanted to talk about what the Nazi regime did right or wrong.

source:

It appears Bryer already had a weapon and Kam had to catch up.

And it sure looks like Bryer was the idea man.

 

[Esprite]

Along with the insane rental prices you have the .4 vacancy rate. Fifty people apply for each rental that pops up. If he does qualify for housing assistance, he would be on a waiting list which sadly is years long (in many cases). My guess is "marginally" means he is in a "shelter" so he would have a bed and everything else shared with 100 or more others. Many are addicts .. real sad place for someone to live. Some of the shelters expect you to leave early am to go to work or?? Then you get to go back for a meal and sleep. Many choose to sleep in a tent or in their vehicles instead of the shelter option. Sad situation all around.

Yes, I'm aware of the dire housing situation in Victoria, and the terrible homeless situation of many people there. However, there is a difference between being homeless, where people live on the streets, and go to shelters each night, and being marginally-housed, which could include people living in a motel temporarily, renting a room on a short-term basis, couch surfing, temporary social housing, etc. His lawyer definitely said that he was being marginally-housed, and that he was receiving support, but he seems to be living in his van now. Perhaps that's his choice. It's good that he has a vehicle at least.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Bryer wanted to start a militia.

Bryer wanted to talk politics.

Bryer constantly wanted to talk about what the Nazi regime did right or wrong.

It appears Bryer already had a weapon and Kam had to catch up.

And it sure looks like Bryer was the idea man.

We don't know what Kam talked about behind closed doors. Clearly a lot more than he talked about in public.

Plus, paradoxically, that actually kind of supports Kam being the leader. In killer duos, often the more outwardly normative one is the leader and the more outwardly dysfunctional one is the follower.

The police also specifically said in the report that they don't know where the other rifle came from. The statement that Bryer built it himself came from Alan's lawyer, and is unsubstantiated as far as we know. That may just be one theory on how it was obtained and it may have been misinterpreted as fact somewhere along the way (either by his lawyer or by the reporter).

In fact considering that older SKS rifles are very cheap and easy to obtain and often are made of a bunch of different parts, and also considering that you have to know what you're doing to build a gun and these guys seemed to be total idiots, it seems more likely that it was purchased rather than that he built it.

 

[LoisLane]

Bryer's great uncle and grandmother both said Kam and Bryer were going to the Yukon, and the great uncle said he was told about it the day before. The only person who was told Alberta was Al, and I don't think that is a minor logistical detail at all that is now being changed. That's a pretty significant allegation--that his son was deceived about the destination and unaware of any plans before the departure--that is directly refuted by other people in Bryer's family. Bryer lied to his dad. And Al can't accept it, so it's Kam's fault rather than Bryer's. MOO

Or it’s his hypothesis based on what he knew about where they were going. Just like we do here. Even with the report we are still rehashing theories. We don’t know for certain that the maternal side were only aware of the Yukon. At the time they were interviewed in the media (we don’t have access to their police statements) they could have simplified their story. But also, I do believe the parents were told stories that would suit their expectations.

I do think their is some truth to BS being deceived into doing things, I suspect there was a naivety about his personality and behaviour in way of a disorder. But that’s JMO.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I do think their is some truth to BS being deceived into doing things, I suspect there was a naivety about his personality and behaviour in way of a disorder. But that’s JMO.

Just stop for a second and imagine getting deceived into murdering two people. And then murdering another person four days later. That's like, not a thing that happens. Nobody accidentally gets tricked into murder. (Although I'm sure that's been used as a criminal defense many times!)

 

[LoisLane]

Just stop for a second and imagine getting deceived into murdering two people. And then murdering another person four days later. That's like, not a thing that happens. Nobody accidentally gets tricked into murder. (Although I'm sure that's been used as a criminal defense many times!)

I didn’t say murder. It was a response to “that his son was deceived about the destination and unaware of any plans before the departure” .

The build-up to this and then the act was the result.

 

[Esprite]

I don't think it even needs to be a clear Leader/Following dynamic. Even if Bryer had equal input, equal role in planning, Kam brought more to the table with having a vehicle, driver's license, PAL card, etc. I'm sure Kam listened and made any stops, decisions etc. Bryer said. But the dynamic in general is Kam was the one who made the final decision.

And Kam delivered the final kill shot, so clearly he was the one in control, probably at all times. Apparently this is typical of spree killers, where one person plays the dominant role, and a second person the more subordinate role.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I didn’t say murder. It was a response to “that his son was deceived about the destination and unaware of any plans before the departure” .

The build-up to this and then the act was the result.

But he told his grandma he was going to the Yukon, so clearly he was aware of the destination.

But let's say for the sake of argument that Bryer went on this trip originally not knowing that it was supposed to be a murder spree. Again, imagine being in that situation where you go on a trip with your best friend thinking it's to get away from your hometown and find work, and -- surprise! -- turns out that he wants you to stalk and kill random people on remote highways and then kill yourselves. Just imagine what your reaction to that would be. I'm going to assume it wouldn't be "just go along with it and also seem completely unbothered by it the entire time." Again...that's not a thing that happens.

I doubt Bryer left on this trip without knowing the real purpose, but even if that was the case, I don't think it took very much convincing. And in any case, it was probably something they had discussed in the past. Because if you're going to ask your friend "hey, want to go on a murder spree and commit suicide?" you have to be 100% positive they're going to say yes...it's like a marriage proposal except terrible!