Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #22

[Jan424]

SBM
There is absolutely no way anybody can argue that it was Kam who convinced Bryer to do this. He didn't need convincing. If anyone needed convincing, it was Kam.

Agree. They were both equally on board with this spree even before it took place. Bryer went along fully and willingly, as did Kam. I’m even fairly certain neither needed convincing. MOO

 

[poupetty77]

IIRC, there was a witness from MB who said they had a lot of maps in the car. Assume they ditched their phones at that point (or removed batteries), hence the need to purchase maps to navigate. They did so to avoid RCMP tracking them.

Safety Officer 'Damn Lucky' He Wasn't Killed When Unwittingly Stopping Teen Murder Suspects

At first, it was said that he had searched the car and had seen maps and survival gear. It was then contradicted later and he only had seen a suit and 2 boxes.

How teen fugitives’ road trip to hell unfolded

That story sounded bizarre to me (I am sure it's real though). JMO of course. But who has to drive after two teenage boys who refused to stop at a check point, realise they look nervous and paranoid but then doesn't check the boot or the boxes for alcohol?

Although, who knows what would have happened if had done it, so, I guess it's a good thing he didn't. It was his lucky day, I'm happy nothing happened.

 

[Betty P]

At first, it was said that he had searched the car and had seen maps and survival gear. It was then contradicted later and he only had seen a suit and 2 boxes.

How teen fugitives’ road trip to hell unfolded

That story sounded bizarre to me (I am sure it's real though). JMO of course. But who has to drive after two teenage boys who refused to stop at a check point, realise they look nervous and paranoid but then doesn't check the boot or the boxes for alcohol?

Although, who knows what would have happened if had done it, so, I guess it's a good thing he didn't. It was his lucky day, I'm happy nothing happened.

JMO, some of these misunderstandings were probably due to reporting errors. A lot was going on at the time, news unfolding quickly, people to be interviewed were hundreds of miles apart, etc.

But, yeah, they may have dumped their phones or took the batteries out. JMO, it's understandable that LE had a difficult time locating them as a result.

 

[CinNC]

That’s true, we used it in my family too... so this does make sense. Incidentally, and I’m not sure why, I’ve always thought it to be a comical saying.

Yes, me too. We always used it in a fun, happy or comical way. Once in a while with a slight hint of sarcasm, which would have been what KM was doing. Even when me and my sibling got piled into the car for a Sunday drive to the country with my parents and grandparents, we were told we were all going on a joy ride. Which made my sister and I very happy and excited, because that always meant a fun time.

 

[Esprite]

This is incorrect. There have many, many posts bashing AS, not Bryer's mother. As I said in an earlier post, there are always 2 sides to every story and we've only heard his. Read what follows:



BS's mother hasn't told her side of the story. All she's done to date is send the following note to the media.

View attachment 207896

People could have a problem with the incessant public ex bashing. Bryer's mother doesn't owe us her side of the story; she's no doubt focused on her surviving children, and not on herself.

 

[CinNC]

He said in a recent Youtube comment that he accepted Bryer's role in this. I think he's just saying that it never would have happened if not for Kam's influence, ie. Kam had the vehicle, money, gun license, knowledge of the area, probably came up with the plan, etc. I think this whole thing was a mutual decision but I do think Kam was the leader. (And I think the RCMP may also suspect Kam was the leader but they aren't going to come out and say it without definitive evidence.)

Plus I think he's having difficulty getting past the fact of Kam shooting Bryer, and sees that as evidence of Kam being the one in control. Personally, I think that whole assisted suicide thing was Bryer's idea.

One could also argue that if not for the dual codependency they had that none of this would ever have happened. Would Kam have done it alone? Would Breyer have done it alone? The likelihood of either of them finding a different partner in crime must be extremely small.

I suspect that they "grew" into this state of mind and decision to kill over a long period of time; perhaps even years. Something flipped their switch and made them decide, "the time is now".

 

[CinNC]

I think he's not in his right mind emotionally. I think he feels he has nothing else to lose, so is going to try and defend his son as best as he can.

I absolutely hear you and take your point.

But can any of us say for sure what people, in general, are thinking about AS?

This WS group is a completely focused discussion that is based on these murders and all of the collateral damage and nothing else. I'm not sure it is fair to assume what people outside this group are thinking and feeling. Not dissing you in any way; I love your posts and way of thinking. I just think a sense of perspective is imperative.

 

[CinNC]

Pretty sure I read that in 2016 Bryer was living in Victoria just to work for the summer. His father has stated several times that he's been living in his van, which I find strange, because he would probably qualify for housing assistance. His lawyer mentioned in an interview that he was being "marginally housed." This could include many housing situations, but definitely not living in his van. I'm actually more concerned about the well-being of Bryer's other family members at this point, especially any siblings, because we know nothing about what's happening with them.

In researching this case, I've seen several articles in the Vancouver area news about the astronomically unaffordable rents, and how homelessness is rampant. That doesn't mean people are necessarily living on the streets; they may be bunking with family and friends, etc.

It is entirely possible that AS has made a cozy "nest" for himself in his van. C&L were comfortably traveling and living out of a van, as were (for a few days) K&M. People do it all the time. I know people who have sold their homes and purchased RV's to travel in and live in. Yes, they have all the amenities of a home for the most part, but technically it can be said they are homeless. AS always looks clean; his hair and clothes are always clean. He is a clever man if nothing else so he has likely made the best of this situation and is not necessarily suffering for it.

One of me and my husband's best friends split up with his partner and is living in a campground until he can find a different job that is closer to friends and family than where he was living. He is an intelligent, sober, well-spoken man who presents well, makes upwards of $50,000USD/year and is a great guy. Technically, though, he is homeless.

Most Americans think of what is going on in the streets of many of our cities with tents, needles and human waste on the sidewalks when they think "homeless". I think it's important to remember that "marginally housed" is almost certainly several steps above that scenario.

 

[Esprite]

Yet Bryer was the one doing most of the talking in the final videos and it was Kam agreeing with him.

In my opinion, the final actions speak louder than words.

 

[FactFinder3000]

In my opinion, the final actions speak louder than words.

Right. Bryer told Kam to execute him and his disciple did as told. Loyal until the end.

 

[NJSleuth91]

One could also argue that if not for the dual codependency they had that none of this would ever have happened. Would Kam have done it alone? Would Breyer have done it alone? The likelihood of either of them finding a different partner in crime must be extremely small.

I suspect that they "grew" into this state of mind and decision to kill over a long period of time; perhaps even years. Something flipped their switch and made them decide, "the time is now".

I agree. I was just saying what Bryer's dad's view on it probably is. I'm not saying it's an objectively accurate view.

My opinion is also that neither of them would have done it without the other. Neither of them had a history of violence before this. They weren't like those classic conduct disorder cases you think of where the person is causing complete mayhem for years.

They probably did "grow into" this mindset and their codependency was a huge contributor to it. Basically they were a bad influence on each other and they pushed each other into a downward spiral. They were best friends for so long during such a critical period of development, that I think we can say with certainty they would probably both have been different people if not for their friendship.

I do think Kam was the leader because he most likely came up with the plan and the logistics (having been to the area before), and acquired most of the resources to carry it out. But I think they were both on board and neither of them had to convince the other.

And what I still have interest in learning is what flipped their switch and made them decide, 'the time is now,' when they had no previous history of violence. And what made them so codependent on each other in the first place.

 

[ktm44]

But AS has accepted that BS killed innocent people. He doesn’t accept the suicide claim because his son was shot in the back of the head by KM before he killed himself. He may have been more accepting of that as a consensual agreement if it was described as so but as far as I can tell from the final report is that they made a video saying they were going to die by suicide - not a murder suicide or assisted suicide so for me in this specific matter he has every right to raise the alarm and question the conclusion that was made by the authority.

I don't think he's accepted that his son killed others or he wouldn't keep trying to place blame elsewhere. I also don't feel that any parent could come to terms all that quickly and it's human nature to try and undstand why it happened. AS shouldn't shoulder the blame for his son's actions anymore than his ex, the grandmother or Kam's parents are responsible.

I can understand why he's having problems accepting the suicide claim but I would suggest that the families of the three innocent victims are still struggling to come to terms with the idea that someone killed them as well.

Both Kam and Breyer were old enough to know that what they did was very wrong and the fault does not lie with AS, his ex, grandma, or Kam's family. They chose the path they took and it's going to take all those victimized by their actions, a very long time to come to terms with that simple fact.

 

[CinNC]

I agree with everything you say here. I am sure the families have kept up with the news and the summary report in the news when it was released and they will come across any other stories that are publicized forever on. I just don’t think they are reading YouTube comments to stay informed especially at this point in time.

If family members and loved ones of the victims are searching for comments on YouTube then maybe it’s because they themselves are not satisfied or questioning the information they have received regarding the investigation. I do believe they have more support whether it be within their family/friends/church network and access to counselling so they can talk and share their feelings and grieve in a safe and supportive environment. For someone in AS’s position he is not as fortunate in that aspect. He very well could come out of this mentally okay because of his openness and maybe he has over saturated his position as the vocal parent of a murderer that it has prevented others from speaking publicly. But I suspect the other families have their circle and they are further “ahead” of AS in most aspects. But as much as AS is focused on getting to the root cause and justice for children manipulated by family court and child services etc, etc, I wonder if those who have such strong negativity towards AS are using his behaviours to conclude that it is all his fault (which it is not IMO) and he is just showing the world that as the truth. And if that’s the case then that is just sad and selfish that anyone involved in BS’s upbringing could sit back and think they are off the hook because “look at what they had to deal with”.

As for sleuthing and then claiming it’s too much and/or not enough.. I just can’t handle that argument on either side. We are on short leashes and have our own limitations and judgements here even behind our secret identities.. lol. I understand the reasons for the rules but sometimes it’s just not really sleuthing or way too tight around here. I even have a problem when “sleuths” blame reasonable questions or current event connections or theories as conspiracy and how that also can shutdown a potentially productive conversation (I do appreciate censorship and respect for privacy etc and why that is reasonable and responsible). Anyways ranting and not making sense anymore so I will stop. Long posts make me crazy.

Oh and also my new thing is to blame MSM for exploiting Bryer because they couldn’t get anything on Kam.

THIS!!!! I agree with every.single.word.

 

[CinNC]

We don't know what Kam talked about behind closed doors. Clearly a lot more than he talked about in public.

I would be willing to bet good money that if anyone from the perps' families (who have been silent until now) spoke up, that it could drastically change the perceived dynamic.

Not only has AS spoken out but BS's grandfather and friends have, as well, so there is only that to go by.

Opinions on the whole human dynamic could change if there wasn't an echo chamber and crickets where K's family and B's mother are concerned.

I'm not saying they owe the public a darned thing. I'm just saying it could change what is perceived.

 

[CinNC]

I'm absolutely on board with you here, @njsleuth. For some reason my ability to quote and snip posts isn't working.

I don't have a particular interest in the "things" in this case any more (evidence, MO, etc.) but I am still fascinated by the psychological aspect.

Maybe 20 years from now some of the here-to-fore silent family members will write books or do a Ted Talk, like Dylan Klebold's mother, did.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Right. Bryer told Kam to execute him and his disciple did as told. Loyal until the end.

I find it impossible to believe Bryer was the leader given the marked difference in social and economic capital between them. Bryer didn't have the ability to even leave Port Alberni on his own.

I'm absolutely on board with you here, @njsleuth. For some reason my ability to quote and snip posts isn't working.

I don't have a particular interest in the "things" in this case any more (evidence, MO, etc.) but I am still fascinated by the psychological aspect.

Maybe 20 years from now some of the here-to-fore silent family members will write books or do a Ted Talk, like Dylan Klebold's mother, did.

I have a feeling it will be a lot sooner than 20 years. Or at least I hope so.

 

[CinNC]

I have to take what he's saying with a big grain of salt.

I used to work in the office of a public school. I had to sign parents/care givers in and out, to pick up their children, and help keep track of parents who were DENIED permission to pick up their children.

I cannot believe how much he sounds like some of the outraged parents I had run into over the years, who swore up and down that the Family Courts were being totally unfair, and swore the other parent was lying and everything was a big conspiracy against them. I would feel sorry for them and look into the situation, but, in most of the cases, the outraged angry parent would not be telling me the total truth.

He sounds very much like some of the angry parents who tried to convince me to let them to take their kids home for lunch, or pick them up, even though they were on the 'DO NOT ALLOW' list.

Later I would discover they were denied access too their children for valid reasons. Driving drunk w/kids in the car, or getting busted with hard drugs w/kids present, or threatening to kill themselves and the kids when angry at the ex.....

I may be wrong, but I am feeling like AS is leaving out a big part of the story. Cops don't drag a teen out of their Father's home, without some kind of evidence that it is not a suitable place for him to be. The ex wife would need some kind of evidence to set that in motion. JMO

All of this that you have said could be right!

We don't know. And even if AS is being completely honest it doesn't change what happened.

There are murderers who come from nice families. There are nice, accomplished people who come from bitterly broken families.

 

[sandbar]

dbm

 

[CanadianSleuther]

I have a feeling it will be a lot sooner than 20 years. Or at least I hope so.

With the amount of talking AS is doing, and the amount of blame he'll be putting on Kam, I think you may be right, even if it's a statement.

 

[FactFinder3000]

[...]

Oh and also my new thing is to blame MSM for exploiting Bryer because they couldn’t get anything on Kam.

The media does what the media does. They go after the story. When they get information they publish. That's what they do. They are not out to *get* anyone.

The reality here is that there was a mountain of material available about Bryer, and nothing about Kam. It's baffling to me how some here seem to be arguing that this does not reflect the reality of the situation. Bryer said and did things that were outrageous and made people feel uncomfortable. For YEARS! There is not one single report of Kam saying or doing anything of the sort.

Isn't it reasonable to take away that this is how they were?

We have Bryer's own social media. Reports from former classmates. Reports from former friends. Reports from people he gamed with. Neighbors. There were so many disturbing things Bryer posted, said, or did.

With Kam, we have nothing. Not one single thing until he presumably opened fire on a tourist at the side of a highway in Northern BC.

The RCMP has said there was no clear leader.

So were they just two like-minded individuals?

Or did one poisoned mind infect the other?

In the latter case, the evidence points to Bryer influencing Kam.

Bryer, to another friend: "Hey, I was wondering if you'd like to hang out this weekend and speak of politics."

Nazi-loving Bryer didn't need convincing, that's for certain.

"Could you imagine if this was real?" - Bryer Schmegelsky, while playing a violent video game.