Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #22

[FactFinder3000]

If Kam already had a gun he wouldn't have to buy another.

Bryer recruited him for his militia. Bryer was the one wanting to start a militia.

"Plus, paradoxically, that actually kind of supports Kam being the leader. In killer duos, often the more outwardly normative one is the leader and the more outwardly dysfunctional one is the follower."

That's pretty hand-wavy. What are the actual numbers? Even if this is true, while statistically interesting, it's not evidence of anything. There's statistics, and there's reality. Not always the same.

In this particular case, the one espousing the murderous ideology was Bryer. This isn't about being "outwardly normative," this is about Bryer saying and doing things that are directly applicable. Gun in mouth. Wants to kill classmate and then himself. Etc., etc.

And then we have Kam. Not one word against him. By all accounts this is totally out of character. And he's the leader? There is not one tiny shred of evidence.

There is absolutely no way anybody can argue that it was Kam who convinced Bryer to do this. He didn't need convincing. If anyone needed convincing, it was Kam.

 

[LoisLane]

But he told his grandma he was going to the Yukon, so clearly he was aware of the destination.

But let's say for the sake of argument that Bryer went on this trip originally not knowing that it was supposed to be a murder spree. Again, imagine being in that situation where you go on a trip with your best friend thinking it's to get away from your hometown and find work, and -- surprise! -- turns out that he wants you to stalk and kill random people on remote highways and then kill yourselves. Just imagine what your reaction to that would be. I'm going to assume it wouldn't be "just go along with it and also seem completely unbothered by it the entire time." Again...that's not a thing that happens.

I doubt Bryer left on this trip without knowing the real purpose, but even if that was the case, I don't think it took very much convincing. And in any case, it was probably something they had discussed in the past. Because if you're going to ask your friend "hey, want to go on a murder spree and commit suicide?" you have to be 100% positive they're going to say yes...it's like a marriage proposal except terrible!

Like I said, I do believe BS told his parents/grandparent what would suit their expectations and acceptance.

It could have been somewhat like you describe so let’s say this is plausible.. then I would add to your thoughts that they both had dreamed and planned the perfect kills in their weird twisted conversations and so KM groomed this idea for a long time and concocted a get away story to BS that fulfilled other dreams of getting out of PA, living together, mini-holiday, a birthday present... but then surprise! let’s do what we have always dreamed.. kill people, airsoft is boring, I have real guns.

 

[FactFinder3000]

And Kam delivered the final kill shot, so clearly he was the one in control, probably at all times. Apparently this is typical of spree killers, where one person plays the dominant role, and a second person the more subordinate role.

Yet Bryer was the one doing most of the talking in the final videos and it was Kam agreeing with him.

 

[JudgeJudi]

@JudgeJudi someone photographed them in the RAV? You're not referring to the photo they revealed at the first press conference from the gas station in Meadow Lake? Did someone else photograph them in the RAV? I never heard about this. bury-man-unknowingly-helps-murder-suspects-1.5229940

This is what I'm referring to:

"At this point, Dyck's wife has told investigators that her husband often slept in his car during long journeys.
He drives a silver Toyota RAV 4.



That's when this investigation shifts significantly. Teenage friends Kam and Bryer don't appear to be missing or dead, they appear to be triple killers."

What detectives knew when in Canadian manhunt for triple killers

This is the only photo of the RAV 4 on the road. I was under the impression that someone took this photo after LD had been murdered as "That's when this investigation shifts significantly" and they became suspects. If it was after his death, they're the only people who could have been in it. If it was taken beforehand, why would anyone take a pic of the RAV 4? Am I barking up the wrong tree?

 

[CaseZero]

Going back to the AS who is making comments on the CBC YouTube channel, his last one reads:

Well Vicki, did you give me good “psychotherapy” when you took me to that hotel room, or did you cause five deaths?

Anyone have any idea what he’s referring to here?

 

[JudgeJudi]

This is pretty huge in my view. We wondered how this ended and now we have our answer. BS was removed from AS by the authorities and returned against his will to Port Alberni. Mom exerting her custodial rights. That is exactly the type of thing that could fuel a rage against an unjust society.

Rage on the part of father and son.

I believe what he said is true because he also said, “Tanya Fletcher has the police file numbers as do a lot of news people. RCMP want to pretend these files don’t exist even though I openly discussed them with rcmp Friday afternoon”.

If this was a total fabrication, there would have been enormous pushback. Crickets.

 

[katydid23]

Agreed. And if all of what AS is sharing is true, I can absolutely believe that he fought - tooth and nail - for his son and on his son's behalf.

I have to take what he's saying with a big grain of salt.

I used to work in the office of a public school. I had to sign parents/care givers in and out, to pick up their children, and help keep track of parents who were DENIED permission to pick up their children.

I cannot believe how much he sounds like some of the outraged parents I had run into over the years, who swore up and down that the Family Courts were being totally unfair, and swore the other parent was lying and everything was a big conspiracy against them. I would feel sorry for them and look into the situation, but, in most of the cases, the outraged angry parent would not be telling me the total truth.

He sounds very much like some of the angry parents who tried to convince me to let them to take their kids home for lunch, or pick them up, even though they were on the 'DO NOT ALLOW' list.

Later I would discover they were denied access too their children for valid reasons. Driving drunk w/kids in the car, or getting busted with hard drugs w/kids present, or threatening to kill themselves and the kids when angry at the ex.....

I may be wrong, but I am feeling like AS is leaving out a big part of the story. Cops don't drag a teen out of their Father's home, without some kind of evidence that it is not a suitable place for him to be. The ex wife would need some kind of evidence to set that in motion. JMO

 

[katydid23]

Rage on the part of father and son.

I believe what he said is true because he also said, “Tanya Fletcher has the police file numbers as do a lot of news people. RCMP want to pretend these files don’t exist even though I openly discussed them with rcmp Friday afternoon”.

If this was a total fabrication, there would have been enormous pushback. Crickets.

Not necessarily. I don't know how it works in Canada, but in the US, even if a parent was publicly speaking about a Child Protective Services case, the authorities would not be able to answer in any way but 'no comment.'

 

[poupetty77]

This is what I'm referring to:

"At this point, Dyck's wife has told investigators that her husband often slept in his car during long journeys.
He drives a silver Toyota RAV 4.

View attachment 207877

That's when this investigation shifts significantly. Teenage friends Kam and Bryer don't appear to be missing or dead, they appear to be triple killers."

What detectives knew when in Canadian manhunt for triple killers

This is the only photo of the RAV 4 on the road. I was under the impression that someone took this photo after LD had been murdered as "That's when this investigation shifts significantly" and they became suspects. If it was after his death, they're the only people who could have been in it. If it was taken beforehand, why would anyone take a pic of the RAV 4? Am I barking up the wrong tree?

Isn't it CCTV footage?

 

[poupetty77]

I have to take what he's saying with a big grain of salt.

I used to work in the office of a public school. I had to sign parents/care givers in and out, to pick up their children, and help keep track of parents who were DENIED permission to pick up their children.

I cannot believe how much he sounds like some of the outraged parents I had run into over the years, who swore up and down that the Family Courts were being totally unfair, and swore the other parent was lying and everything was a big conspiracy against them. I would feel sorry for them and look into the situation, but, in most of the cases, the outraged angry parent would not be telling me the total truth.

He sounds very much like some of the angry parents who tried to convince me to let them to take their kids home for lunch, or pick them up, even though they were on the 'DO NOT ALLOW' list.

Later I would discover they were denied access too their children for valid reasons. Driving drunk w/kids in the car, or getting busted with hard drugs w/kids present, or threatening to kill themselves and the kids when angry at the ex.....

I may be wrong, but I am feeling like AS is leaving out a big part of the story. Cops don't drag a teen out of their Father's home, without some kind of evidence that it is not a suitable place for him to be. The ex wife would need some kind of evidence to set that in motion. JMO

Bryer was allowed to stay a few weeks though, so he can't have been such a threat. Unless the family had no idea Bryer was with his father?

 

[katydid23]

Bryer was allowed to stay a few weeks though, so he can't have been such a threat. Unless the family had no idea Bryer was with his father?

Often the first weeks are a trial run. If the child was in the late teens, and the parent had no recent arrests, CPS will allow a long visit.

But something happened, apparently, that soured the situation. We may never know what that was.

But I don't believe that everything was smooth, positive and wonderful, but then the evil mother came in and cruelly tore them apart, using CPS workers to do her evil bidding.

I think there were valid reasons that his son was sent back to grandmother. Possibly AS was trash talking Mom and grandma, so caustically, that it cause a toxic situation for the son?

 

[JudgeJudi]

I must ask why folks are allowed to bash Bryer's mother, who is also considered to be a victim, but not his father? Seems rather a double standard. Perhaps because she's not telling her side of the story. The squeaky wheel always gets the attention.

This is incorrect. There have many, many posts bashing AS, not Bryer's mother. As I said in an earlier post, there are always 2 sides to every story and we've only heard his. Read what follows:

This has been said before and we don't want to have to say it again.

Absolutely STOP victim bashing Alan Schmegelsky. He did not commit these crimes and is not a POI or suspect and online bullying of him won't be tolerated.

You may discuss what AS and other family members say in MSM or what is said in MSM about them. Do not sleuth them or make comments about them that are not victim friendly.

ETA: Please use the Report feature to let us know of any posts that continue to slag AS and they will be dealt with.

BS's mother hasn't told her side of the story. All she's done to date is send the following note to the media.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Could also be that every time they stop at some gas station/convenience store, he grabs a toiletry bag or something so he can wash up, brush his teeth etc. IMO

Police also eventually found Dyck's dumped toiletry bag.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Isn't it CCTV footage?

I don't know.

 

[musicaljoke]

... His lawyer definitely said that he was being marginally-housed, and that he was receiving support, but he seems to be living in his van now...

His son chose to murder innocent people, living in their vans.

 

[musicaljoke]

@NJSleuth91 totally agree with all your points above and yes, we don't know that for sure. It could be his wallet, but I really think it's his phone.

If Bryer was navigator, could it be a GPS? Handheld GPSs look like cell phones. If I recall correctly, we were told that Prof Dyck had a GPS. It seems like something he would need for his research.

Garmin eTrex® Touch 25 Handheld GPS | Canadian Tire

 

[Jan424]

I doubt Bryer left on this trip without knowing the real purpose, but even if that was the case, I don't think it took very much convincing. And in any case, it was probably something they had discussed in the past.

SBM
Bryer knew when he was going, where he was going, and why he was going. Let’s also not forget their pit stop to buy an extra gun. And, as we now know, they certainly weren’t hunting animals in the Yukon. MOO

 

[srper2]

If Bryer was navigator, could it be a GPS? Handheld GPSs look like cell phones. If I recall correctly, we were told that Prof Dyck had a GPS. It seems like something he would need for his research.

Garmin eTrex® Touch 25 Handheld GPS | Canadian Tire

Can't most mobile phones still work as a GPS without a sim card? The sim card and GPS features are different. I have used an iPhone and a Samsung phone with a GPS app that works with no coverage in extremely remote areas, it uses satellite signals. No Signal? 5 Ways to Use Your Phone GPS Without Data | SmarterTravel

 

[Betty P]

Going back to the AS who is making comments on the CBC YouTube channel, his last one reads:

Well Vicki, did you give me good “psychotherapy” when you took me to that hotel room, or did you cause five deaths?

Anyone have any idea what he’s referring to here?

It's difficult to understand why mentally ill people harm and kill others, especially when they come from disturbed families with a history of mental illness.

I don't know if much can be learned from these killers other than to find ways to prevent similar incidents. JMO, I would prefer to forget them.

 

[Betty P]

Can't most mobile phones still work as a GPS without a sim card? The sim card and GPS features are different. I have used an iPhone and a Samsung phone with a GPS app that works with no coverage in extremely remote areas, it uses satellite signals. No Signal? 5 Ways to Use Your Phone GPS Without Data | SmarterTravel

IIRC, there was a witness from MB who said they had a lot of maps in the car. Assume they ditched their phones at that point (or removed batteries), hence the need to purchase maps to navigate. They did so to avoid RCMP tracking them.

Safety Officer 'Damn Lucky' He Wasn't Killed When Unwittingly Stopping Teen Murder Suspects