Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #22

[Jan424]

One could also argue that if not for the dual codependency they had that none of this would ever have happened. Would Kam have done it alone? Would Breyer have done it alone? The likelihood of either of them finding a different partner in crime must be extremely small.

I suspect that they "grew" into this state of mind and decision to kill over a long period of time; perhaps even years. Something flipped their switch and made them decide, "the time is now".

Exactly! And I believe the RCMP’s assessment that this was a partnership. They saw ALL of the evidence and videos, we have not. JMO

 

[Tilly23]

I find it impossible to believe Bryer was the leader given the marked difference in social and economic capital between them. Bryer didn't have the ability to even leave Port Alberni on his own.

I don't know who was leading whom here. But your comment above makes me curious - do you think it's possible for the "leader" to be one who finds a way to use people who have resources? After all, BS did find a way to leave Port Alberni. And he found a chauffeur and a partner in crime and a way to fulfill some very dark fantasies.

I am not necessarily implying anything regarding the dynamic between KM and BS. I am very curious though and would like to understand it better. Were they just incredibly devoted to each other and trying to make the other's "dream" come true (with similar violent fantasy as their "dream")? Were they selfishly using each other to satisfy a lust for violence? Was one devoted and the other a user? Or was it something else entirely?

MOO

 

[SovereignSnake]

This is what I'm referring to:

"At this point, Dyck's wife has told investigators that her husband often slept in his car during long journeys.
He drives a silver Toyota RAV 4.

View attachment 207877

That's when this investigation shifts significantly. Teenage friends Kam and Bryer don't appear to be missing or dead, they appear to be triple killers."

What detectives knew when in Canadian manhunt for triple killers

This is the only photo of the RAV 4 on the road. I was under the impression that someone took this photo after LD had been murdered as "That's when this investigation shifts significantly" and they became suspects. If it was after his death, they're the only people who could have been in it. If it was taken beforehand, why would anyone take a pic of the RAV 4? Am I barking up the wrong tree?

@JudgeJudi that was what I thought you meant. I read your earlier comment about them being photographed in the RAV and thought someone else got a photo of them and it just recently surfaced. Like a random witness on their cellphone camera. But yes, you did mean the photo they put out when they realized they were still alive and driving a stolen vehicle. Way back when this photo first came out I was torn if it was a highway traffic cam or a gas station surveillance camera but then they said in the final report it was a Meadow Lake gas station. All understood, no worries.

 

[SovereignSnake]

If Bryer was navigator, could it be a GPS? Handheld GPSs look like cell phones. If I recall correctly, we were told that Prof Dyck had a GPS. It seems like something he would need for his research.

Garmin eTrex® Touch 25 Handheld GPS | Canadian Tire

That's a possibility as well but from what I understand (asked of friends and looked online) the Toyota RAV has a built in GPS.

 

[FactFinder3000]

I think a basic problem here is that folks see Kam as the smarter of the two, based on the fact that he was smart enough to keep his mouth shut.

However, in real life it isn't always the smarter person who prevails when it comes to making decisions. The problem is that you cannot reason with a person who is unreasonable. A logical argument is not persuasive to a person who is illogical.

Just look at AS. Does anyone tell him what to do? Or does he have it all figured out and will tell *you* how it is?

 

[Runningforthewind]

I don't believe any of this was planned. I think these were two teens who were depressed, with circumstances we don't know leading up to leaving. There is no indication that the rifle bought from Cabela wasn't intended to be used for hunting. Anything could have triggered these two from the time they left to when they came across Lucas's and Chynna's van. It doesn't diminish their responsibility but it also doesn't imply either of these two was a distinct leader.

 

[Jan424]

They were best friends for so long during such a critical period of development, that I think we can say with certainty they would probably both have been different people if not for their friendship.

SBM
Actually , I’m not sure I can say this with certainty.... after all, water seeks its own level, and that’s why they were like glue all these years. Of course, it’s possible they’d be upstanding members of society without each other, but how can we be sure. JMO

 

[musicaljoke]

That's a possibility as well but from what I understand (asked of friends and looked online) the Toyota RAV has a built in GPS.

Yes, that would be useful for navigating while in the vehicle, but Prof Dyck would likely have used a hand-held GPS for documenting the location of his research findings. jmo

 

[SovereignSnake]

I know the glove discussion has been going on and I'm terrible on timelines and the geography... but reading that AUS article just now it sounds like the gloves were purchased right before Leonard's murder that night and not after? So I went and looked up dates as I think it was discussed here they bought gloves after LD's murder and not before.

Sorry for being gross - but if violence escalated they probably bought the gloves for a "better grip" of an object that they might've used and as mentioned here, being more hands on as Leonard's murder was.

Gloves were purchased on afternoon of July 18th:
"They also bought doughnut packages, a Coffee Crisp chocolate bar and two pairs of gloves at a local store in Dease Lake on the afternoon of July 18."

Leonard's body found early morning July 19th:
"On July 19, just before 8:30 a.m., a highway worker notified a Dease Lake RCMP officer responding to a burnt truck along Highway 37 that he had found a dead man at a highway pullout just two kilometres south."

https://www.vicnews.com/news/doughn...ix-facts-about-b-c-s-triple-homicide-manhunt/

@Lalalacasbah yes, they bought the gloves at the Super A in Dease Lake the afternoon of the 18th. Leonard was killed late that night/early the following morning. They left the tags for them at that other scene just outside of town with Kam's Walmart ID and his SIM card. That reminds me, SIM cards are so small now I wonder how it was "damaged?" A lighter perhaps? Or crushed it with a multi tool pliers? Anyway, another thing I took into consideration with these gloves is the quality. They were gas station gloves. I remember someone posting a couple days ago about them being for tactical grip or something to that effect. I think in this case it was more for prints if they were going to possibly loot vehicles and leave them. I imagine your options of gloves at a gas station are going to very limited in terms of quality and style.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I don't know who was leading whom here. But your comment above makes me curious - do you think it's possible for the "leader" to be one who finds a way to use people who have resources? After all, BS did find a way to leave Port Alberni. And he found a chauffeur and a partner in crime and a way to fulfill some very dark fantasies.

I guess it's technically possible but it doesn't seem very likely. There's an inherent power imbalance there, when one person literally cannot go anywhere without the other person. It seems like a very precarious position to be in.

Especially if Kam actually had been hunting in the area many times before -- that implies it was his idea to go there.

Plus not to read into it too much, but Kam is walking in front of Bryer in the surveillance footage on both the 17th and 21st.

I am not necessarily implying anything regarding the dynamic between KM and BS. I am very curious though and would like to understand it better. Were they just incredibly devoted to each other and trying to make the other's "dream" come true (with similar violent fantasy as their "dream")? Were they selfishly using each other to satisfy a lust for violence? Was one devoted and the other a user? Or was it something else entirely?

I think they both had violent fantasies for years which they discussed with each other, but they didn't act on them. I think they kept their violent impulses not acted upon for years because they wanted to continue living normal lives. Some confluence of factors made them both give up on life and go into a rage spiral. Then they were like "might as well take a bunch of people out and get some notoriety before we kill ourselves." I think Kam probably came up with the particular plan but both were equally into it.

 

[poupetty77]

@Lalalacasbah yes, they bought the gloves at the Super A in Dease Lake the afternoon of the 18th. Leonard was killed late that night/early the following morning. They left the tags for them at that other scene just outside of town with Kam's Walmart ID and his SIM card. That reminds me, SIM cards are so small now I wonder how it was "damaged?" A lighter perhaps? Or crushed it with a multi tool pliers? Anyway, another thing I took into consideration with these gloves is the quality. They were gas station gloves. I remember someone posting a couple days ago about them being for tactical grip or something to that effect. I think in this case it was more for prints if they were going to possibly loot vehicles and leave them. I imagine your options of gloves at a gas station are going to very limited in terms of quality and style.

I wonder why bother damage the SIM card but leave it there? They wanted it found but not readable? Had they thrown it in a bin it would never had been found. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt, but they were really, really, really dumb weren't they?

I so wish to see a video of them, see them talk or read something they wrote. Or have someone who knew them talk about them. Like, were they able to open a door or did they just walk into it until it opened and if it was a door you need to pull they were stuck outside?

 

[KR72]

Going back to the AS who is making comments on the CBC YouTube channel, his last one reads:

Well Vicki, did you give me good “psychotherapy” when you took me to that hotel room, or did you cause five deaths?

Anyone have any idea what he’s referring to here?

Not sure...strange. When he refers to the hotel room, my first thought was that he meant the room where he met with the RCMP, but that's not right since the five deaths hadn't happened whenever he met up with whomever Vicki is (as I read it, anyway).

Anyway, some of the comments on YouTube are out there to say the least. Blame is assigned to everyone - the court system, the RCMP, feminists, Hollywood, leftists, and of course single mothers. Yes, all of those things and plus the Prime Minister are responsible for two adult men killing three people, running halfway across Canada and then offing themselves in the bush, not the two men who actually committed the crimes.

As far as who is responsible, of course it's BS and KM, equally imo. I don't assign blame to any of the parents or relatives, dysfunctional backgrounds or stable backgrounds. People come from all kinds of circumstances and don't run around killing innocent strangers. BS had a difficult background, so what? Many people come from the same or worse. He chose NOT to improve his lot and KM chose the same fate. The victims in this case had no say in the matter. It's sad all around.

 

[FactFinder3000]

I do think 'vicki' was meant to be vicpd, which he uses elsewhere. That's the Victoria Police Department, just in case anyone is wondering.

That doesn't seem to make it make any more sense, though. But the 'hotel' could be a reference to jail.

 

[poupetty77]

Not sure...strange. When he refers to the hotel room, my first thought was that he meant the room where he met with the RCMP, but that's not right since the five deaths hadn't happened whenever he met up with whomever Vicki is (as I read it, anyway).

Anyway, some of the comments on YouTube are out there to say the least. Blame is assigned to everyone - the court system, the RCMP, feminists, Hollywood, leftists, and of course single mothers. Yes, all of those things and plus the Prime Minister are responsible for two adult men killing three people, running halfway across Canada and then offing themselves in the bush, not the two men who actually committed the crimes.

As far as who is responsible, of course it's BS and KM, equally imo. I don't assign blame to any of the parents or relatives, dysfunctional backgrounds or stable backgrounds. People come from all kinds of circumstances and don't run around killing innocent strangers. BS had a difficult background, so what? Many people come from the same or worse. He chose NOT to improve his lot and KM chose the same fate. The victims in this case had no say in the matter. It's sad all around.

NOT SAYING IT IS THE CASE HERE. But sociopaths are made. What if one of them was made a sociopath by any circumstances. Isn't there some need to find out to see if things can be changed so as to not create more sociopaths?

It's not about finding whose fault it is. Bryer and Kam are dead. They both are responsible. But the insistance to keep our head under the ground when it comes to teenager who become killers will not help stop it. I don't think it just happens. Or maybe it does. But we need to find out. JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

I do think 'vicki' was meant to be vicpd, which he uses elsewhere. That's the Victoria Police Department, just in case anyone is wondering.

That doesn't seem to make it make any more sense, though. But the 'hotel' could be a reference to jail.

Maybe he is referring to his being an absent parent is someone else's fault for not rehabilitating him, and that contributed to his son's behavior.
I don't know, not much of what he says makes sense. I think he's just a grieving father with mental health issues trying to make sense of the whole thing. Imo

 

[katydid23]

NOT SAYING IT IS THE CASE HERE. But sociopaths are made. What if one of them was made a sociopath by any circumstances. Isn't there some need to find out to see if things can be changed so as to not create more sociopaths?

It's not about finding whose fault it is. Bryer and Kam are dead. They both are responsible. But the insistance to keep our head under the ground when it comes to teenager who become killers will not help stop it. I don't think it just happens. Or maybe it does. But we need to find out. JMO

Sometimes they are 'made.' Often though, it is genetic. It can be an inherited trait. It's possible that BS inherited his father's personality. JMO

 

[poupetty77]

Sometimes they are 'made.' Often though, it is genetic. It can be an inherited trait. It's possible that BS inherited his father's personality. JMO

Sure enough, its need an inquest to find out?

The reaction to hide everything about them, not talk about it and try to erase everything reminds me of that school were they started to have one suicide after the other. At first the principal tried to ignore it hoping it would go away. But it got worse. They then started investigating and finding solutions and it got better.

My point is, and I hope I am wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a copycat in the next year or so. Pretending it didn't happened won't help, I'm afraid. JMO

 

[KR72]

NOT SAYING IT IS THE CASE HERE. But sociopaths are made. What if one of them was made a sociopath by any circumstances. Isn't there some need to find out to see if things can be changed so as to not create more sociopaths?

It's not about finding whose fault it is. Bryer and Kam are dead. They both are responsible. But the insistance to keep our head under the ground when it comes to teenager who become killers will not help stop it. I don't think it just happens. Or maybe it does. But we need to find out. JMO

Perhaps, but sociopaths are not caused by single mothers, feminists, the Prime Minister or Hollywood.

Not directed at you or your comment at all (or any other poster here) only to the YouTube but it's interesting to me that single moms and feminists are so often blamed in cases like this one, yet fault is rarely assigned (until recently) to absentee or deadbeat fathers and toxic masculinity. Again, not blaming AS or any other parent in this case.

 

[poupetty77]

Perhaps, but sociopaths are not caused by single mothers, feminists, the Prime Minister or Hollywood.

Not directed at you or your comment at all (or any other poster here) only to the YouTube but it's interesting to me that single moms and feminists are so often blamed in cases like this one, yet fault is rarely assigned (until recently) to absentee or deadbeat fathers and toxic masculinity. Again, not blaming AS or any other parent in this case.

Some of those Youtube comments are pathetic. But sad misogynists have the right to express their opinion (which sounds ignorant and aggressive to me), unfortunately. I must say, I find AS very eloquent. I wish he used his voice at a larger scale than Youtube comments, if what he says is real. I wonder if he will petition for an inquest?

 

[Jan424]

I would be willing to bet good money that if anyone from the perps' families (who have been silent until now) spoke up, that it could drastically change the perceived dynamic.

Not only has AS spoken out but BS's grandfather and friends have, as well, so there is only that to go by.

Opinions on the whole human dynamic could change if there wasn't an echo chamber and crickets where K's family and B's mother are concerned.

I'm not saying they owe the public a darned thing. I'm just saying it could change what is perceived.

Exactly, we have no idea of the dynamic of Kam’s family life. None whatsoever. There may have been behaviors he exhibited that were concerning... or not. Point being we do not have any information. That being said, I do not blame the McLeods for keeping their mouths shut. Not much good will come out of them speaking out (for them), one way or another. Plus, as I’ve said before, they have more important issues they are dealing with in the wake of this catastrophe. MOO