Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #23

[Lalalacasbah]

I get the GTA influence, I think that's totally possible. As well as movies, other vid games, online propaganda, and being somewhat "anti" social media to add to the mix of ideas.

Regardless if some people think they were just depressed teenagers I would think the professionals ie: behavioral analysts/criminologists and case workers in the prison system would have a clinical classification for their psychological profile.

They won't just write on the file "depressed gamer". These guys had personality disorders and serious issues as people just don't go out and murder for sport. A bit blunt, but I feel it was like sport for them.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I wonder if these kinds of stunts are what RCMP were worried about with the "identification" copycat stuff (neo-Nazi, anti-Semitic). Not saying that's what the "identification" in question was but maybe... JMO. A snippet below:

"A Vancouver private school student who was suspended along with several others for sharing racist content on social media admits the behaviour was offensive, but said it was the work of “erratic teenagers.”

Other students have been expelled from St. George’s School for the “deeply offensive behaviour,” according to a statement released by the school Friday.

The suspended student, who asked for his identity to be concealed to speak freely, told Global News the senior students involved are from a variety of cultural backgrounds, and had been sharing the content since at least two years ago.

He added the racist memes were being posted and shared mainly over Instagram, and had been for a while before they were caught. He pushed back against earlier claims the students were part of a neo-Nazi Facebook group."

Suspended Vancouver student says he regrets role in spread of anti-Semitic, racist memes

Students expelled from St. George's private school in Vancouver after sharing hateful memes

 

[DarkSkink]

I wonder if these kinds of stunts are what RCMP were worried about with the "identification" copycat stuff (neo-Nazi, anti-Semitic). Not saying that's what Kam and Bryer were totally into but maybe... JMO. A snippet below:

"A Vancouver private school student who was suspended along with several others for sharing racist content on social media admits the behaviour was offensive, but said it was the work of “erratic teenagers.”

Other students have been expelled from St. George’s School for the “deeply offensive behaviour,” according to a statement released by the school Friday.

The suspended student, who asked for his identity to be concealed to speak freely, told Global News the senior students involved are from a variety of cultural backgrounds, and had been sharing the content since at least two years ago.

He added the racist memes were being posted and shared mainly over Instagram, and had been for a while before they were caught. He pushed back against earlier claims the students were part of a neo-Nazi Facebook group."

Suspended Vancouver student says he regrets role in spread of anti-Semitic, racist memes

Students expelled from St. George's private school in Vancouver after sharing hateful memes

Well, idiots 'typically' do idiotic things with other idiots.

In this case, the victims were all "white". If there was some sort of racial angle to their spree, they would have likely shot up the Indigenous people and places they encountered along the way. <modsnip: no MSM to support>

For the RCMP to be concerned about copycats being inspired, there likely had to be some sort of fad-like hook or catch to something in those videos. The GTA similarities have me curious. They didn't create an online manifesto or post regarding motives, so potentially getting their message out wasn't a priority or driving force.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Well, idiots 'typically' do idiotic things with other idiots.

In this case, the victims were all "white". If there was some sort of racial angle to their spree, they would have likely shot up the Indigenous people and places they encountered along the way. <modsnip: no MSM to support>

For the RCMP to be concerned about copycats being inspired, there likely had to be some sort of fad-like hook or catch to something in those videos. The GTA similarities have me curious. They didn't create an online manifesto or post regarding motives, so potentially getting their message out wasn't a priority or driving force.

Agree, there's some idiotic stuff that happens when people are young and dumb. We've all done stupid things, but some things are a conscience thing and whether you follow the crowd or do the right thing.

No, I'm not saying racist per se. More just the 'behaviour' of it all.

Young men, online a lot, forming groups, spewing out crap, getting each other riled up for a war against ANYTHING in a way. Just for something to believe in or something to do, I'm not sure.

 

[NJSleuth91]

The GTA similarities have me curious.

Another thing I thought of...Bryer's neighbor (mom of one of his ex-friends) said that he started making comments about wishing video games were real around age 13, which would be around 2013/14. GTA V came out in late 2013. Hmm....

 

[Lalalacasbah]

The GTA similarities have me curious. They didn't create an online manifesto or post regarding motives, so potentially getting their message out wasn't a priority or driving force.

SBM - I'm one of those who thinks these guys were actually "anti" social media. I think they thought they were superior to people on FB and IG (I think they only had a few posts).

I think they thought they were quasi-intellectual/political and beyond the shallowness of social media. But gaming? That's a challenge that takes mad skills. So that's why I think no social media posts, videos, manifestos, etc.

I bet they watched a lot of YouTube education though! All JMO

 

[Optics]

The McLeod family doesn’t owe the general public a single word, and I don’t blame them for staying silent. They’d likely be skewered either way. Same with Bryer’s Mom..... good for her. I’m sure they have enough to deal with in this nightmare.

......Yet they are the ones who could actually shed light on these boys the most.

 

[LoisLane]

......Yet there are the ones who could actually shed light on these boys the most.

I wonder if the family did contribute info to the RCMP to aid in their investigation. If they held out that would be concerning but what can RCMP do about it?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

......Yet there are the ones who could actually shed light on these boys the most.

I've tried to google stuff on Kam (usually on Reddit sites you can find more personal stuff it seems with some crimes) but nothing of importance with this case.

We get Bryer had enthusiasm to want shoot 'em games to be real life, wonder what Kam ultimately got out of this other than maybe control of Bryer (assuming the theory he might've been more the leader type).

 

[Zella]

I wonder if the family did contribute info to the RCMP to aid in their investigation. If they held out that would be concerning but what can RCMP do about it?

I didn't get the impression from the report that either suspect's family in Port Alberni was anything but cooperative, though I also don't think either was able to shed much light on what happened or why.

 

[DarkSkink]

I wonder if the family did contribute info to the RCMP to aid in their investigation. If they held out that would be concerning but what can RCMP do about it?

Well, initially, it was the typical sunshiny 'good kids' stuff. I would hope they did something.

Were that my child, I would have been in the press with all kinds of messaging hoping to get through to them, and hunting for them in the bush myself, regardless if LE felt it was a good idea or threatened anything.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Some random thoughts:

- Bryer is the face, PR/poster boy: photos of him on the net, the verbal one with online gamers and harrassing school mates, the one victims maybe see first with gear on, the talker in the videos.

- Kam is on the sidelines/background: not much of him online in general, seemed 'normal' to those around him, the driver/watch man and maybe even the 'scout', in the vids was nodding his head in approval (IIRC) on the side.

They each had their roles that's for sure.

 

[DarkSkink]

Some random thoughts:

- Bryer is the face, PR/poster boy: photos of him on the net, the verbal one with online gamers and harrassing school mates, the one victims maybe see first with gear on, the talker in the videos.

- Kam is on the sidelines/background: not much of him online in general, seemed 'normal' to those around him, the driver/watch man and maybe even the 'scout', in the vids was nodding his head in approval (IIRC) on the side.

They each had their roles that's for sure.

The bios I read were more the opposite. B being the quiet one. K being the funny one.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Some random thoughts:

- Bryer is the face, PR/poster boy: photos of him on the net, the verbal one with online gamers and harrassing school mates, the one victims maybe see first with gear on, the talker in the videos.

- Kam is on the sidelines/background: not much of him online in general, seemed 'normal' to those around him, the driver/watch man and maybe even the 'scout', in the vids was nodding his head in approval (IIRC) on the side.

They each had their roles that's for sure.

Kam did seem to like to use the word "shadow" in many of his online usernames. (I know, I'm reading too much into it...what else is new....)

However what we know of the forensic evidence seems to indicate they both participated more or less equally in the murders themselves, so...there's that. I do think Bryer was the "hype man" as @SovereignSnake speculated a while back.

They were referred as teens, nerds, young men, men, and a whole host of other labels, each independently decided on by the author of each independent piece of writing.

They were actually referred to as "boys" in the report itself, too.

The bios I read were more the opposite. B being the quiet one. K being the funny one.

Bryer was very quiet and introverted usually, except among his friends. But he also had more outward "red flags" and attention-seeking behavior. Kam was outwardly normal and, while also introverted, seemed to be more social and cheerful. Still I have not, to this day, seen even one negative thing said about him from people who knew him. It's very interesting.

 

[LoisLane]

I didn't get the impression from the report that either suspect's family in Port Alberni was anything but cooperative, though I also don't think either was able to shed much light on what happened or why.

Well we really don’t know.

I think it could have been “just left as it is” as it was playing out.

Maybe KM was tracing his roots, engrained in his family history, and that was what motivated them to head to Northern Manitoba. Maybe many family stories and years of studying family history was something important to him - or something for him to taint.

Not sure about how interested or relevant that would be for the RCMP investigation tho or if the parents would feel it’s something that could answer why they ended up in that area. (JMO - if Métis connection of the Mcleod name is accurate)

From reading more about the Métis history it’s as reasonable as Grand Theft Auto. IMO.

 

[DarkSkink]

Well we really don’t know.

I think it could have been “just left as it is” as it was playing out.

Maybe KM was tracing his roots, engrained in his family history, and that was what motivated them to head to Northern Manitoba. Maybe many family stories and years of studying family history was something important to him - or something for him to taint.

Not sure about how interested or relevant that would be for the RCMP investigation tho or if the parents would feel it’s something that could answer why they ended up in that area. (JMO - if Métis connection of the Mcleod name is accurate)

From reading more about the Métis history it’s as reasonable as Grand Theft Auto. IMO.

Have you played GTA V? The Online play is particularly relevant.

There doesn't seem to be much in the way of revisiting roots, or cultural discovery involved. All the family first names that I have seen are all 'typical' Generic English Canada 80's to 2010's names.

 

[srper2]

Well, initially, it was the typical sunshiny 'good kids' stuff. I would hope they did something.

Were that my child, I would have been in the press with all kinds of messaging hoping to get through to them, and hunting for them in the bush myself, regardless if LE felt it was a good idea or threatened anything.

I would have been too.

 

[DarkSkink]

Maybe because you have to “look it” for it to be obvious? It’s an unfair world that’s for sure.

Most of it is life experience and perspective.

If you're 25, female and sick of immature men, then you might call them boys. If you're 48, male, and have coached hockey or baseball, then you might call them kids. If you're a parent with a child of the same age, and you're sentimental, then you might call them young men.

When it comes to the media, there is also the desire to sensationalize. The younger you make them, the more sensational the story.

Some people define man differently as well. To some, living with your parents and working at a small town WalMart doesn't make you a man at any age.

 

[DarkSkink]

Kam did seem to like to use the word "shadow" in many of his online usernames. (I know, I'm reading too much into it...what else is new....)

However what we know of the forensic evidence seems to indicate they both participated more or less equally in the murders themselves, so...there's that. I do think Bryer was the "hype man" as @SovereignSnake speculated a while back.



They were actually referred to as "boys" in the report itself, too.



Bryer was very quiet and introverted usually, except among his friends. But he also had more outward "red flags" and attention-seeking behavior. Kam was outwardly normal and, while also introverted, seemed to be more social and cheerful. Still I have not, to this day, seen even one negative thing said about him from people who knew him. It's very interesting.

Some of us like to use the word Dark. What could that mean?

 

[katydid23]

I think that if some teenager (or two) somewhere is going to be inspired by Kam and Bryer, they will commit a copycat crime whatever is released or not (in my opinion). It is actually worse because 1) they can project any intention on them 2) they can learn the "mistakes" not to make to make sure to become famous and have your message spread.

I am not saying that RCMP should share any manifesto/ideology Kam and Bryer might have shared, but their name spread around the world already. Not releasing any info and pretending that nothing happened will hardly stop a wannabe copycat. JMO

It may not stop all of the copycats. But it would be much worse if they released ALL of the info, and videos and described motives, etc.

We learned that the hard way with Columbine. The news saturated the airwaves with images of those idiots, wearing their long coats, walking the halls with their automatic weapons. They became icons to many troubled youth.