CANADA - Lucas Fowler & Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #5

[otto]

It occurred to me that the crime scene south of Liard HS may have been tampered with and contaminated. Sad, but possible that what we think we know may not be accurate at all. Many hours may have passed, and scavengers to the scene may have taken wallets, etc. after the murders. There are such people in this world.

There are also people who may have seen it all, realised what they saw, perhaps even stopped to rubberneck and drove away without a thought to calling police, not wanting to get involved. If so, I hope those people admit to the error of their ways and think of the families. Come forward and tell the police what you saw, please. Make it right

I highly doubt that anyone found the murdered couple and stole property rather than report the scene. I think the suspects stopped at the van to steal money, but the couple didn't meet the suspects' expectations so they were murdered. I think the botanist was murdered because the suspects wanted his vehicle, and they had already murdered 2 people so it was easier to shoot him as well.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Time line I posted yesterday


Police search B.C. homes of teens wanted in nationwide manhunt | The Star


Key moments in the manhunt for two suspected B.C. killers
Three grisly killings in northern B.C. have led to a nationwide search for two young men suspected in their deaths.

Friday, July 12

- Kam McLeod, 19, and Bryer Schmegelsky, 18, leave their home town of Port Alberni, B.C., with a plan to look for work in Whitehorse, according to media reports quoting Schmegelsky’s grandmother.


Saturday, July 13

- Video shows Australian Lucas Fowler, 23, and American Chynna Deese, 24, stopping at a gas station in Fort Nelson, B.C. They arrive in Fowler’s blue 1986 Chevrolet van at 7:30 p.m. and depart at 7:47 p.m.


Sunday, July 14

- According to media reports, Fowler and Deese are spotted on the side of the road with a broken-down van. Witnesses report seeing a man speaking with Fowler on Highway 97 in the evening. He is described as Caucasian with darker skin and dark hair, possibly with a beard and/or glasses.


Monday, July 15

- B.C. RCMP find Fowler and Deese’s bodies near their van along the Alaska Highway about 20 km south of Liard Hot Springs, near the B.C.-Yukon boundary.


Thursday, July 18

- McLeod and Schmegelsky are spotted in Dease Lake at about 3:15 p.m. They are driving a red and grey Dodge pickup truck with a sleeping camper.


Friday, July 19

- RCMP confirm they are investigating Fowler and Deese's deaths as a double homicide. Fowler’s father, an Australian police investigator, says the family is headed to B.C. to bring his son’s body home.

- RCMP respond to a call about a truck on fire on Highway 37 — seven-hours away from the double homicide and 50 kms south of Dease Lake. Police find an unidentified man’s body two kms from the burned vehicle.


Saturday, July 20

- RCMP say there is no indication the third body is connected to the deaths of Fowler and Deese.


Sunday, July 21

- RCMP say the burning truck was the same one last seen being driven by McLeod and Schmegelsky, who they describe as missing.

- McLeod and Schmegelsky are seen driving a grey 2011 Toyota RAV4 in the northern Saskatchewan town of Meadow Lake, about 300 km northwest of Saskatoon.


Monday, July 22

- RCMP confirm that Fowler and Deese were shot to death and release a sketch of the man police said spoke to Fowler on July 14.

- A burned-out vehicle is reported in the area of Gillam, a tiny northern Manitoba town about 1,000 km northeast of Winnipeg.


Tuesday, July 23

- RCMP say McLeod and Schmegelsky are now considered suspects in the deaths of Fowler, Deese and the third unidentified victim. Mounties launch a nationwide manhunt for the pair, saying they are “considered dangerous.”

- There is a possible sighting of the two in the Gillam area, according to RCMP.


Wednesday, July 24

- RCMP confirm the burned-out vehicle found in Gillam Monday was the Toyota RAV4 McLeod and Schmegelsky had been seen driving. Mounties say they’ve set up a check stop on the road leading into the town.

- Schmegelsky’s father says he believes his son will not survive a potential confrontation with police. McLeod’s father releases a statement describing his son as kind and considerate.

- The third victim is identified as Len Dyck of Vancouver. His family issues a statement describing him as a loving husband and father. Mounties charge McLeod and Schmegelsky with second-degree murder in connection to Dyck’s death.


Thursday, July 25

- Gillam residents say they are on edge as RCMP search their town, with one saying people are “sleeping with their guns close.” RCMP say there were two confirmed sightings of the suspects in the town and they believe McLeod and Schmegelsky are still in or near the area.

 

[turbotwo]

Looking at the railroad track on google maps its a single track so far as I can tell in most parts with some pull offs. So, your idea of single schedule makes sense and maybe with seasonal adjustments.

I was also trying to figure out the harbor situation in Churchill to understand if that represented a viable escape option for the 2 suspects. The Hudson Bay surrounding area is sparsely populated and the 2 suspects would stick out. I do wonder how connected to mainland news folks in the small towns/villages that surround Hudson Bay are?

Here is some basic wiki info about Hudson Bay communities:

Communities along the Hudson Bay coast or on islands in the bay are (all populations are as of 2016):

• Nunavut
  • Arviat, population 2,657
  • Chesterfield Inlet, population 437
  • Coral Harbour, population 891
  • Rankin Inlet, population 2,842
  • Sanikiluaq, population 882
  • Whale Cove, population 435
• Manitoba
  • Churchill, population 899
• Ontario
  • Fort Severn First Nation, population 334
• Quebec
  • Akulivik, population 633
  • Inukjuak, population 1,757
  • Kuujjuarapik, population 686
  • Puvirnituq, population 1,779
  • Umiujaq, population 442
  • Whapmagoostui, population 984

I would wager heading to the coast would be a terrible plan. That is polar bear country, and travel on foot is not at all advisable. You can't drive from PR 280 to Churchill, and stowing away on a cargo ship seems exceedingly unlikely.

 

[Herat]

I swear provincial bird is mosquito lol sand flies are awful.growing up out there ya forget how bad bugs are cause your used to them. The bogs would suck right now . It's so hard to judge where they would be. Depending on their skills they won't starve tons of berries the fishing is unreal pickeral walleye gold eye .

The instant they decide to start fire to cook, dry clothes, stay warm, stave off bugs, things change.

According to the weather reports, , the weather right now is reported as 49 and rainy. That's quite unpleasant - really cold and dank. It will be difficult to see a plume of smoke in the rain. I assume the heat-seeking radar is out there searching 24/7. I was impressed by the example of heat-seaking cameras from the video of a completely unrelated police search through brush for a stolen car where the guy exited the vehicle and ran for cover. If they had any hits, it wouldn't take long at all to get them cornered. And from that camera example, you would be able to distinguish a larger mammal, such as a bear or moose from a human. That bipedal stance really stands out.

 

[XxmsmaliciousxX]

https://castbox.fm/x/1dJpI

This podcast is covering the case as it's being released from reputable sources. It has a solid timeline of events.

For those who can't click the link or use a different podcast player, it's called Front Burner by CBC.

 

[Herat]

I would wager heading to the coast would be a terrible plan. That is polar bear country, and travel on foot is not at all advisable. You can't drive from PR 280 to Churchill, and stowing away on a cargo ship seems exceedingly unlikely.

I agree completely. There is no way they would be able to hide out in Churchill. That area really relies on tourism and you have to have some reliable communication system to run tourists in. Not to mention the VIA Rail communications. Churchill LE will be very much aware of this search and be on the lookout.

And when does the next cargo ship come to Churchill - a month from now?

But what in this horrible saga has made any sense at all?

 

[Jessthinkin]

I would wager heading to the coast would be a terrible plan. That is polar bear country, and travel on foot is not at all advisable. You can't drive from PR 280 to Churchill, and stowing away on a cargo ship seems exceedingly unlikely.

Maybe polar bear justice is what’s fair, considering...

 

[Zella]

Maybe polar bear justice is what’s fair, considering...

I'd be okay with that.

 

[MistyWaters]

And victim choice is interesting... certainly both incidents seem like victims of opportunity.

But a young couple in love, having a good time and a plant prof aren’t the usual type in northern Canada. These two idiots didn’t attack say a trucker, or a logger, or some oil or mine guys on their way north or east to Fort Mac.

Yes, good point, they chose who they perceived as vulnerable. Tourists, a young couple in a van with Alberta licence plates stopped on the side of road and a single older man who, by appearance, looked totally harmless.

And just a fleeting thought....were these the only people targeted? Because one reason for the boys to burn the truck and camper might be it was identifiable in one or more other failed robbery attempts. As much as we sometimes like to think potential witnesses all tell their stories to the media, that’s simply not true. Locals in northern areas know LE are often many hours away. Legal gun ownership is very common to not only hunt but as a protection. Calling fish and wildlife is not an option if cornered by a cougar.

If a potential victim scared a couple young hoodlums off it might not have gotten reported as a possible connection until after the other homicides came to light. But it could account for the two becoming paranoid and deciding to torch the vehicle. JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

The instant they decide to start fire to cook, dry clothes, stay warm, stave off bugs, things change.

According to the weather reports, , the weather right now is reported as 49 and rainy. That's quite unpleasant - really cold and dank. It will be difficult to see a plume of smoke in the rain. I assume the heat-seeking radar is out there searching 24/7. I was impressed by the example of heat-seaking cameras from the video of a completely unrelated police search through brush for a stolen car where the guy exited the vehicle and ran for cover. If they had any hits, it wouldn't take long at all to get them cornered. And from that camera example, you would be able to distinguish a larger mammal, such as a bear or moose from a human. That bipedal stance really stands out.

I take hope in that....but the area is soooo big.

Really upsetting that a couple of perps can make such a mess of a situation that others have to deal with. For what? Attention? Feeling of revenge? Notoriety in a gaming community?

jmo

 

[afitzy]

Bringing over an interesting interview with a former FBI profiler discussing the teen suspects’ state of mind, etc...

Winnipeg News | Watch Local Breaking News

Facinating look IMO at what could be going on in the heads of the 2 suspects. Curious that this former FBI profiler thinks that the relationship between the 2 suspect could have deteriorated to the point that they might have split up.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

Looking at the railroad track on google maps its a single track so far as I can tell in most parts with some pull offs. So, your idea of single schedule makes sense and maybe with seasonal adjustments.

I was also trying to figure out the harbor situation in Churchill to understand if that represented a viable escape option for the 2 suspects. The Hudson Bay surrounding area is sparsely populated and the 2 suspects would stick out. I do wonder how connected to mainland news folks in the small towns/villages that surround Hudson Bay are?

Here is some basic wiki info about Hudson Bay communities:

Communities along the Hudson Bay coast or on islands in the bay are (all populations are as of 2016):

• Nunavut
  • Arviat, population 2,657
  • Chesterfield Inlet, population 437
  • Coral Harbour, population 891
  • Rankin Inlet, population 2,842
  • Sanikiluaq, population 882
  • Whale Cove, population 435
• Manitoba
  • Churchill, population 899
• Ontario
  • Fort Severn First Nation, population 334
• Quebec
  • Akulivik, population 633
  • Inukjuak, population 1,757
  • Kuujjuarapik, population 686
  • Puvirnituq, population 1,779
  • Umiujaq, population 442
  • Whapmagoostui, population 984

Churchill port is not a serious escape option. It may not even be open yet for what is a very short season. There is no prospect of these two getting to the communities on your list. Re knowledge of what’s going on, anyone in the north who watches the news would know.

 

[grannygates]

Burned Rav4 location and time.
Train Schedule

• Tuesday North
• Thursday South

View attachment 195103

Winnipeg-Churchill - Train Schedules

i do believe that leaving by train is very plausible even more so after this map showing how close the RAV was to the train station.

the schedule for winnipeg churchill train run says it it takes 1 day 21 hours and costs $468 for 2 riders and you have to give passenger info for both riders, whether that is confirmed with ID someone who is more familiar with VIA would have to chime in.

there is also a dozen stops along the way from churchill to winnipeg. so they don’t have to wait 2 days to get off the train.


would they sit on this train for nearly 2 days and would they have $468 cash to purchase these tickets ?

 

[Gina20]

I swear provincial bird is mosquito lol sand flies are awful.growing up out there ya forget how bad bugs are cause your used to them. The bogs would suck right now . It's so hard to judge where they would be. Depending on their skills they won't starve tons of berries the fishing is unreal pickeral walleye gold eye .

Port Alberni is a fishing town. I read the local crime reports about a recent theft of fishing gear.

 

[Gardenista]

Bringing over an interesting interview with a former FBI profiler discussing the teen suspects’ state of mind, etc...

Winnipeg News | Watch Local Breaking News

She's great. I love it when she weighs in on cases I'm following.

 

[JudgeJudi]

WHAT WE KNOW:

About Kam McLeod and Bryer Schmegelsky:

- On Friday, July 19, RCMP discovered a red and grey Dodge pickup truck with a sleeping camper that was on fire south of Stikine River Bridge on Highway 37, near Dease Lake, B.C.

- The same night, the body of an unidentified man was found two kilometres away from the burned Dodge pickup.

- The truck was last seen being driven the day before in Dease Lake, B.C., by Kam McLeod, 19, and Bryer Schmegelsky, 18, both from Port Alberni, B.C. The two were spotted travelling south from the Super A general store in Dease Lake at about 3:15 p.m.

- Until Monday, the police considered the young men to be missing as they had not been in contact with their families in several days. Police said Schmegelsky and McLeod were planning to visit Whitehorse to look for work.

- On Tuesday, RCMP announced that the two were suspects in the deaths of Fowler and Deese, as well as in the suspicious death of the unidentified man found at Dease Lake.

- Saskatoon RCMP said the two were spotted Sunday, July 21 in Meadow Lake, Sask., driving a grey 2011 Toyota RAV4. On Monday, RCMP recovered a burned RAV4 near Gillam, Manitoba, which is near Hudson’s Bay.

- McLeod and Schmegelsky were both charged Wednesday night with one count of second-degree murder in the death of Leonard Dyck of Vancouver, and Canada-wide warrants were issued for their arrest. Police said Dyck was the man found dead near the burning truck in Northern B.C.

- Police have asked the public to consider McLeod and Schmegelsky dangerous. They warned the public not to approach them or take any action other than to call 911.

- McLeod is described as six-foot-four, 169 pounds, with brown eyes, dark brown hair and facial hair. Schmegelsky is described as six-foot-four, 169 pounds, with sandy brown hair. However, police say they may have changed their appearance.

- According to Al Schmegelsky, Bryer Schmegelsky’s father, the two worked at the Walmart in Port Alberni and have been best friends since elementary school.

- In a statement released to media Wednesday, Kam McLeod’s father, Keith McLeod, described his son as “a kind, considerate, and caring young man” and said he hoped to “get to the bottom of this story.”

https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2019/07/22/what-we-know-and-dont-know-about-recent-deaths-and-disappearances-in-northern-bc.html

 

[otto]

I do believe that leaving by train is very plausible even more so after this map showing how close the RAV was to the train station.

The schedule for Winnipeg Churchill train run says it it takes 1 day 21 hours and costs $468 for 2 riders and you have to give passenger info for both riders, whether that is confirmed with ID someone who is more familiar with VIA would have to chime in.

There is also a dozen stops along the way from Churchill to Winnipeg. So they don’t have to wait 2 days to get off the train.

Would they sit on this train for nearly 2 days and would they have $468 cash to purchase these tickets ?

I think they would try to hop on the train as it passed slowly through Gillam, maybe getting off at one of the stops between Gillam and Churchill, and then getting back on as the train headed South on Thursday.

 

[Zella]

One thing that has struck me is there was a pretty steady stream of verified sightings of them before Monday. Since then, nothing official or confirmed. I always found it strange that they were willing to kill 3 people but would go into stores and businesses afterward and apparently act normal and certainly not be violent. Of course, this was before they were publicly identified as suspects, but for a duo on a spree-killing, it's just sort of a weird disconnect.

It seems like their MO is to kill isolated travelers on the side of the road and steal from them rather than to do a hold-up style robberies or attack people when there are potential witnesses (or people to intervene).

Because of the sudden lack of any sightings for a few days, I think they're either holed up somewhere, lost in the woods, or dead in the woods.

 

[Gina20]

Another thought: if anyone did stop to tamper with the crime scene or rubberneck near Liard HS, their DNA could be part of the evidence. Wouldn't it be better to explain that to the RCMP now, rather than wait until later?

 

[zecats]

One thing that has struck me is there was a pretty steady stream of verified sightings of them before Monday. Since then, nothing official or confirmed. I always found it strange that they were willing to kill 3 people but would go into stores and businesses afterward and apparently act normal and certainly not be violent. Of course, this was before they were publicly identified as suspects, but for a duo on a spree-killing, it's just sort of a weird disconnect.

It seems like their MO is to kill isolated travelers on the side of the road and steal from them rather than to do a hold-up style robberies or attack people when there are potential witnesses (or people to intervene).

Because of the sudden lack of any sightings for a few days, I think they're either holed up somewhere, lost in the woods, or dead in the woods.

Also the killing of isolated travelers has given way to their location (at that time) and enabled tracking of the two. I think perhaps they no longer wish to leave such a trail so will try to go about movement in a less obvious way. JMO