CANADA - Lucas Fowler & Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #5

[LadyL]

That's fair enough, but that wasn't my point. My point is BS and KM were going into these situations blind. How were they to know the person they were attacking wasn't also armed and meaner than hell?

Because this is Canada. Most people are not armed.

 

[happyday]

These two spent a lot of time setting up this elaborate trip and project.

We know they were dedicated to being "survialists" and gaming some ruthless games where only one person can be the winner through their survival skills and their lack of morals.

I think they have spend a very long time setting up this survivalist fantasy:

So think like a survivalist: Be prepared, and leave No Trace

Leaving their tower computer to burn in the pickup/camper tells me they had a lot of information on there that had to be destroyed and not available to anyone. So that was planned.

I am sure they bought burner phones in Port Alberni to take with them, maybe several. If they are going to escape without a trace, they can't have traceable phones pining. I'm actually more sure about this as I think this through.

They also must have secured weapons and ammo in Port Alberni. These are the essentials of a survivalist. Best to do this in a place where you can do it in an organized fashion and I have to think where better to do this than in your own area and the back channels you know about.

Money ? Has to be untraceable cash. They might have slipped up on this, perhaps, if they used any of the victim's cards, but I think cash only would have been the plan.

And I think their general route and destination was planned. As the FBI analyst said, there is a tremendous amount of planning that goes on before an episode like this, but not so much in the follow-through when undetermined situations arise.

Maybe they did intend to get to Churchill. If you aren't paying attention, you can easily mistake the railroad line from Gillam to Churchill as a road. And as they drove more dirt roads farther and farther to the east, it must have seemed a good choice. Note that they did ditch the vehicle very close to the VIA Rail line to Churchill.

I think they planned this all very very heavily. And have had at least some ability to monitor LE and the news.

But this adventure is no fun unless you can impress your friends and enemies. Impress them at your real-life game skills. So maybe there are some gamers out there, some net-confidants that know about some of their plans and have been getting updates. I think that has to be part of the plan.

The more I think about it, the more I belive they made a great many plans for this and some have come through. If you think of the model of an internet-survival game, you can watch them tick off the boxes as they go....

MOO

Gosh I was just sitting here thinking the same things. ALL PLANNED. I now think they ended up in this area purposely. And I hadn’t thought about giving updates to other gamers, but that’s interesting! It strikes me as one big horrible game and I agree that they will want people to know about it.

 

[Hatfield]

for what we call sitting water this is true for anything heavy its a detriment because it washes away the scent but if the reports of misty fog are true it should help

I agree. Thanks.

 

[otto]

Well for one thing, we don’t know if the pair allegedly spotted LF and CD outside the van or if they were inside the van sleeping. But just in itself, an a ‘80s older van with Alberta licence plates could give the appearance of young people on an adventurer who probably aren’t armed. An possible easier target for robbery.

On the other hand the van doesn’t exactly scream out the occupants were loaded with cash. So I wonder if hoping to rob the occupants of drugs or alcohol was involved in the initial motive. As the families believed the suspects were heading to Whitehorse to seek employment as opposed to a joytrip or vacation, I doubt the two were flush with unlimited funds beyond a direct trip there.

Some people view vans, especially white ones, as child-abduction vehicles. It's equally possible that an older van parked on the side of the road belongs to a transient construction worker who is well armed.

I think the suspects were looking for money, and indeed all identification (and presumably wallets) were missing from the first two murder victims. Other belongings were not taken.

 

[MistyWaters]

Dog's bark a family's security
Donna Lundie is relying on her dog to bark if the fugitives approach her home at night.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/fox-lake-nightly-community-patrol-fugitives-1.5225799

Dogs...by the mention of this I recall my memory of dogs while traveling in northern areas. Everybody has a dog, a large dog, dogs everywhere, riding in cabs or truckboxes or in the yard, not fenced in like in urban areas.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

Sorry to hear they have not been caught yet. Hoping that will come soon.

Wanted to dispel something I read earlier about search dogs not being able to smell good in wet weather. Im going to list this as JMO because I can only state this based on having a Brittany Spaniel once that had an excellent nose and I watched him work many times.

JMO
When its misty out or foggy out or dew on the ground or even a very light rain, that actually seems to help dogs smell really good. Even better than when its hot and dry.

The important part of this is I am not talking a downpour rain or anything. Im only talking about misty, foggy, very light rain.

My dog used to go balistic with his nose during days like that. I did have a SAR person confirm this once on a comment so I feel very confident in this but JMO of course.

Just wanted to share this as misty weather may be a really good thing for LE using their search dogs.

Re tracking dogs and scent... There was a fairly heavy rain yesterday and more is forecast for tonight, Saturday and Sunday.

 

[Sillybilly]

Thread is open again.

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[SBurrus]

Bringing over an interesting interview with a former FBI profiler discussing the teen suspects’ state of mind, etc...

Winnipeg News | Watch Local Breaking News

Insightful interview. I haven't logged into WebSleuths since the two inmates escaped Dannemora a few years ago but I felt compelled to comment. This has got to be an eerie and tense situation for everyone in the Gillam area; hopefully, the elements and heightened LE presence will bring this to an end soon.

I have bookmarked the CTV page at the provided link; lots of stuff on there. I guess this may sound ignorant...but I was expecting a lot of French language stuff in those interviews but they are speaking excellent English! Maybe the French association is closer to Quebec and not so much in the other provinces?

 

[PingTheRouter]

Cpl. Manseau seems to be giving interviews via 980 FM

uh not sure its much new or if this will be the same information repeated at the press conference but doesn't inspire much hope more of the same, we are working hard and trying to do things by the book type comments

 

[NorthernWild]

...I was expecting a lot of French language stuff in those interviews but they are speaking excellent English! Maybe the French association is closer to Quebec and not so much in the other provinces?

Definitely yes. And most in Quebec also speak English.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Insightful interview. I haven't logged into WebSleuths since the two inmates escaped Dannemora a few years ago but I felt compelled to comment. This has got to be an eerie and tense situation for everyone in the Gillam area; hopefully, the elements and heightened LE presence will bring this to an end soon.

I have bookmarked the CTV page at the provided link; lots of stuff on there. I guess this may sound ignorant...but I was expecting a lot of French language stuff in those interviews but they are speaking excellent English! Maybe the French association is closer to Quebec and not so much in the other provinces?

The pressers are bilingual. Francais is much more common in Ontario and especially Quebec but certainly not limited to these provinces. And, as my roots are from Ontario near the Quebec border, many people are bilingual.

There is a press conference in half an hour, you may be interested in watching
Winnipeg News | Watch Local Breaking News

 

[Deleted member 248860]

The search must be hard going both for officers on the ground and any tracking dogs.

Presumably, officers are carrying rifles and wearing bulletproof vests, the latter adding weight, plus bug netting. I wonder how useful dogs are. They are not immune from bugs, which are fierce this time of year. I can see using dogs in fairly clear areas, such as along railway tracks or good footpaths, but in brush? For how long?

And as mentioned above, it’s light rain today, but there was a good shower yesterday (there’s video of it) and more is forecast for tonight, Saturday and Sunday.

One has to wonder just how effective ground search, as distinct from air, really is.

The RCMP briefing in 20 minutes should be interesting.

 

[XxmsmaliciousxX]

Insightful interview. I haven't logged into WebSleuths since the two inmates escaped Dannemora a few years ago but I felt compelled to comment. This has got to be an eerie and tense situation for everyone in the Gillam area; hopefully, the elements and heightened LE presence will bring this to an end soon.

I have bookmarked the CTV page at the provided link; lots of stuff on there. I guess this may sound ignorant...but I was expecting a lot of French language stuff in those interviews but they are speaking excellent English! Maybe the French association is closer to Quebec and not so much in the other provinces?

I've rarely come across French, and I'm in Alberta. I did hear more of it when I was travelling closer to Quebec.

I also had the thoughts about dogs. Everyone has one it seems. I wonder if there was anytime the dogs went nuts. I can't see domesticated dogs going after them, but maybe strays?

There has to be a reason why the RCMP have just stayed steadfast in Gillam. They have to have some form of proof they are still out there.

 

[thelesis]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/regina-gunpoint-abduction-1.5222696

Police are investigating a report of an abduction taking place at gunpoint in Regina on July 23.

Regina police do not believe this is connected to the current investigation involving two homicide suspects from British Columbia.

The Australian media has been pretty sensational on the case and I would stick to Canadian sources. But if someone comes around spreading the rumour they're connected to the Regina abduction, that's been debunked for days.

 

[PingTheRouter]

I've rarely come across French, and I'm in Alberta. I did hear more of it when I was travelling closer to Quebec.

iv only come across it in Quebec never in Alberta never in Sask , i always thought Quebec was the french quarter anyways i mean it has that name for a reason

 

[Gina20]

This article, and especially the comments section, gives valuable insight into the mindset of a person who would seek out a harsh and solitary life in the north, then engage police.

The Mad Trapper is studied by RCMP during their training. Artifacts are in the RCMP Museum.

Whitehorse Daily Star: A most bizarre case The Mad Trapper of Rat River

 

[Herat]

IMO that's no escape, that's just going further down a dead end, and one that's much more difficult to backtrack on. As has been mentioned, they would stick out like a sore thumb in any of the communities around there, and on the off chance they made it to the mouth at Hudson's Bay, they're in polar bear country with no hope of getting supplies, a vehicle, cell service, or assistance of any kind.

I agree

As historic and dramatic the name Hudson’s Bay is, there is nothing but the ghost town of Port Nelson at the mouth of the Nelson River. There is no active port. There might be a few fishermen or trappers around, but not much else. And once you get there, then what?

It’s hundreds of km to Churchill, if you even live long enough to trudge along that vast coastline with only a few few First Nation settlements, where they are heavily armed and not used to strangers.

There are no magic swords or spells to trade to get you a helicopter out of there. There is really nowhere to go. You are stuck to die a slow death of privation and cold when winter sets in.

 

[Kubirai]

Burned Rav4 location and time.
Train Schedule

• Tuesday North
• Thursday South

View attachment 195103

Winnipeg-Churchill - Train Schedules

Two police officers and a dog searched along the tracks, according to a published photo.

Police are searching the buildings of the hydro facilities. It will take time to go through several hundred potential hiding places between Keeyask, Gillam, and Fox Lake area.

I don't think they are in the great outdoors. They are indoors near Gillam, or they already left before police came.

 

[KR72]

iv only come across it in Quebec never in Alberta never in Sask , i always thought Quebec was the french quarter anyways i mean it has that name for a reason

Lots of French in Manitoba, but mostly in the south, not in the Gillam area.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

I've rarely come across French, and I'm in Alberta. I did hear more of it when I was travelling closer to Quebec.

Manitoba is an officially bilingual province and has been since the 1980s. The RCMP will use both languages at every briefing.