Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #8

[Deleted member 248860]

I do not believe that it is possible to survive for seven days in the weather over the last week unless you are properly dressed, with layers, and have shelter.

I also think that it is highly improbable that they walked 25km/15m from the train tracks to York Landing unless they have the right topo map and compass and know orienteering. The German canoeists managed to walk 10km/6m a day.

If there are doubts about them being spotted at the York Landing dump, they would start with the idea, assuming that it is part of the alleged sighting as many say, that they were lightly dressed. That is simply not consistent with surviving for six days in rain, thunderstorms and temperatures as low as 8°C/45°F. In fact, the German canoeists said that well-layered clothing saved their lives. Otherwise, they would have died of hypothermia.

 

[Ruprect]

RCMP cannot confirm that there was a sighting of 2 people.

"At a news conference Monday, RCMP said they have received recent reports that the teens were seen in York Landing but said that, as they have not made contact with the teens, they cannot confirm this sighting."​

Sighting of teen murder suspects in York Landing not confirmed: RCMP

I find this interesting. It is as if they are saying that they don't even have tracks, foot prints or anything else. I understand they don't reveal much but if they do mostly pull out of this community then it suggests to me that nothing at all was found and they are discounting the sighting.

I am most certainly not aware of LE tactics or how they go about things but I would have thought they would be making York Landing ground central for the hunt and spreading out from their like they seem to have done in Gillam.

Still early in the York Landing situation so I might be reading way to much into things.

 

[otto]

It could be anything you're absolutely right. The cops / news media stated skated Lucas and Chyna wete the victim of gun violence. But that doesn't mean they were shot with bullets.
An LD we don't know exactly how he was killed. I don't recall the RCMP saying he was shot. I was actually thinking along the lines that they might have ran him over while stealing his vehicle and perhaps they use that fancy knife that they bought and killed him.
There's theories and speculation from the public, there's also theories and speculations from the media. And then there's very few facts given to the public and the media by the RCMP and local detachments. So pretty much most of what we talked about is just guessing.

RCMP described the murders as "gun violence," NSW Detectives said they were shot.
A gun was used to shoot bullets into the first two victims. That resulted in their deaths.

"Two NSW homicide detectives will act as family liaisons after the son of one of the state’s top officers and his girlfriend were found dead along a Canadian highway.

They confirmed on Saturday that Fowler and his American girlfriend, Chynna Noelle Deese, were shot dead on Monday on the Alaska highway, 20km south of Liard Hot Springs, British Columbia."​

NSW police to assist family after death of Sydney man Lucas Fowler in Canada

 

[Gina20]

Northern Manitoba band opens checkstop to nab illegal booze, drugs - APTN News

Those on treaty land have a right to create and enforce their own bylaws. Interesting article talking about check stops to encourage dry communities on northern Manitoba treaty land.

Interesting people dump their weapons before the checkstop, and these two specifically asked about the dry status of the community.

 

[KR72]

I wonder if the reporter means developments since the RCMP statement earlier??

Austin Grabish on Twitter

 

[Seattle1]

RCMP Manitoba‏Verified account @rcmpmb
After a thorough & exhaustive search, #rcmpmb has not been able to substantiate the tip in York Landing. RCMP resources will continue to be in the York Landing & Gillam areas. We thank the community for their patience & understanding & ask them to continue to be vigilant.

12:36 PM - 29 Jul 2019 pst

 

[gitana1]

Well, tons and tons of people, young and old, wear full camo...a lot. Judging from youtube, it's not just an American thing (although surely, we are the camo fashion leaders of the world).

I believe it was Bryer's father who said he gave him camo for Christmas and the kid really liked it.

In terms of where they ended up, the camo choice seems way more durable and practical than Kam's wardrobe choice. Who considers it an "entire military outfit"? It's mall rat clothing in Vancouver, too. I am guessing a huge percentage of teens in Canada and US play "violent video games."

I think we can expect to see more of this "fashion."

https://fashionista.com/2019/02/nyfw-fall-2019-trend-camo-print

I respectfully disagree. Except soldiers and hunters, few people wear full camo. It's not a thing. And that outfit he is wearing is not at all mall rat clothing.

And as much as I truly respect you and your posts, I feel it is slightly intellectually dishonest to equate this:

(From your link)

With this:

One is obviously a fashion choice. One appears to be full on military wear. Not a cute jacket with darling camo print. He appears to be wearing a full military uniform and I haven't seen anyone but tiny kids playing dress up, wearing something like, that unless they're actually in the military, hunting (and even then it looks different, IMO), or dressing up to do paint ball.

Oh and of course these guys:

She described the attacker as a tall, thin young man. She said he was wearing camouflage and had a big gun.
The gunman at the Gilroy Garlic Festival has been identified as a 19-year-old man

CHRISTCHURCH, New Zealand—This tiny island nation was left reeling after a gunman wearing military fatigues and wielding five weapons stormed into two mosques and killed 50 people on Friday, in the worst massacre in New Zealand’s history.
Terror Attacks at New Zealand Mosques Leave 50 People Dead

Neal — visible out the window, wearing green camouflage, Ferreira said — fired a volley of bullets at the classroom’s windows. When the shooter moved on to the next room, students who had remained under their desks were told to run back to the office with others, but one child wasn’t moving, Ferreira said. He had been shot in the chest and leg.
4 dead after gunman ‘randomly picking targets’ goes on rampage in Calif., tries to enter school

A man opened fire on police responding to a call about a domestic disturbance in an Alabama mobile home park, killing one officer and wounding two others, authorities said Monday. An intense manhunt led to his arrest hours later, not far from the Arrowhead trailer park, which is only a few miles from the campus of Auburn University, where students had been warned to be on alert.
The Alabama Law Enforcement Agency described 29-year-old Grady Wayne Wilkes as armed and extremely dangerous, wearing camouflage body armor and a helmet.
Suspect arrested in deadly shooting on Alabama police responding to domestic disturbance call

Around 1:53 a.m., a gunman wearing camouflage clothing opened fire from a low rooftop, aiming at people gathered outside a restaurant. An 18-year-old woman died at the scene, while a 19-year-old man later died in a local hospital; both were students at the Hyria Vocational Institute.[3]
Around 1:53 a.m., a gunman wearing camouflage clothing opened fire from a low rooftop, aiming at people gathered...
Eight other were wounded, including a female police officer who responded to the emergency call.
Hyvinkää shooting - Wikipedia

Medina never stopped Cruz or interrogated him, despite recognizing him as the “racist” kid who always wore black or camouflage and had swastikas on his backpack, according to a sworn statement obtained by the South Florida Sun Sentinel.
He was the same kid who had been sent to the office for wearing a camo mask, hiding behind poles and jumping out to scare students.
“That’s crazy boy.” School watchman recognized but didn’t stop shooter before Parkland massacre.

They learned about the ride she had taken to the gun shop and the shotgun she had purchased. She was last seen wearing a black shirt and camouflage pants. It was then that the Jefferson County School District put Columbine and other high schools on lockout, securing the exterior doors while continuing to hold classes. The FBI released Pais’s name and photo and began a massive manhunt.
‘Infatuated’ with the Columbine shooting, she flew to Colorado and bought a gun

None of this is coincidence. These murderers view themselves as delusionally fighting a cosmic war, or they're injustice collectors who think they're engaging in battle with those who have wronged them or they're wanna' be soldiers in a video game they've created.

Camoflauge and black "tactical" outfits/gear are routinely outfits of choice for spree and mass murderers. And that's for a reason. They see military outfits as "tough" and as denoting killing and war and they want to see themselves as tough killers engaged in war.

To equate this with a cute camo purse or gorgeous little jacket that looks zero like actual military wear, is not an apt comparison, IMO.

 

[Peace777]

There are a few more things that the duo have seemingly done so far that are oddly coincidental, taking the game into account. Not sure I want to bring these things up.

Does the game include going to get food or something from a dump/waste area?

 

[otto]

I find this interesting. It is as if they are saying that they don't even have tracks, foot prints or anything else. I understand they don't reveal much but if they do mostly pull out of this community then it suggests to me that nothing at all was found and they are discounting the sighting.

I am most certainly not aware of LE tactics or how they go about things but I would have thought they would be making York Landing ground central for the hunt and spreading out from their like they seem to have done in Gillam.

Still early in the York Landing situation so I might be reading way to much into things.

That is exactly what they area saying, that they cannot even confirm that anyone was in the area near the dump - no tracks, no evidence of camping, no discarded items, no matted down grass - nothing.

 

[10ofRods]

A few people have mentioned that they don't think that the suspects had a gun. RCMP have stated that the first two victims died of "gun violence," so the suspects had a gun.

So, the RCMP suspects they have at least one gun.

No similar cause of death for Prof Dyck, though, right?

 

[castilloisno1]

dbm

 

[Francie Starr]

It may well be that RCMP are not divulging this, but it has concerned me that not even discarded rubbish from these blokes has been picked up, by human or dog .. wrappers, from MRE's, evidence of small fires, useless pieces of clothing.. , and let's say, they are , as Alan , 'masters' at bushmanship, no one has picked up the remains of birds, or animals they are eating, chewed bones, smouldering cooking fires, even their waste product, .. it's as if they are passing over the land , hovering about 3 feet above ground, ingesting nothing, eliminating nothing, needing nothing, ..

And all this is Perfect, Spectacular health, no broken bones, no debilitating coughing, no gastro enteric problems, no minor accidents, ( a stubbed toe, a stick in the eye, a burn of the hand ) …

Almost as if they might have arrived on that first Sunday and made a deal to sell the Rav for a couple hundred bux plus a free lift to Winnipeg and away they went with another driver. But while they were in transit, driver's mate back in Gillam finds out via the media who his/her buddy is helping. They know the police will soon be swarming their community. First thing to do would be to take the Rav back into the bush and torch the beast. Remember LE asked for anyone to step forward who may have "inadvertently" helped the accused or knew of such a situation? But these northern communities and very small, tough and inter-reliant, I'd think, with families have been linked for many generations and relationships with LE that have not always gone particularly well. Probably better to let trouble blow over and hope LE goes home, soon. As for the travellers to Winnipeg? If his connections back in Gillam were in touch, he could jettison his passengers anywhere along the road or, who knows, maybe stick to the deal. All just pure conjecture on my part.

 

[afitzy]

Technically, we don't know if they have any weapons, camping supplies or even food with them right now, not even Airsoft.

If the initial story of the 2 suspects foraging for food at the dump is correct then they were desparate to eat. If they had somehow made it from Gillam via a combo of walking and ride that was one long trek that took a ton of energy IMO.

Also, how much sense would it make to travel heavy over such a distance? They probably have the clothes they started with along with the same shoes and not much else IMO.

If York Landing was a false sighting, I always wondered about the location of the RAV4 bonfire and was curious if they had managed to secure a vehicle in advance of burning the RAV4, torched the RAV4 and took off in another vehicle?

 

[Dr. Watson]

Exactly, who wants to walk into the bush that is thick with brush and not be able to see anyone? What leader would send troops into that trap? No one. They need infra for this to work.

Yes and no. Yes, that would be ideal. But a larger perimeter requires more people (more than I understand werr there in 20 min) and time to setup.

If these guys had just ducked into the woods when sighted, planning to go back to dump-diving soon afterwards, I expect they would have been caught despite the relatively small perimeter that could be secured.

But if their training comes from a video game played out against other human opponents out to get you, I suspect they high-tailed it a little further out of there immediately—and probably more as concealment allowed when the arrival of helicopters confirmed to them that pursuit was on the way.

Even the US military with overwhelming force available and nothing preventing them from blanketing an area with bullets and explosives doesn’t always find it a no brainer to nail down a couple guys with AK47s sighted somewhere in the wilderness of say Afghanistan.

I wouldn’t want to be hiding from the US military or RCMP, but that doesn’t mean their job of finding is easy.

 

[gitana1]

@gitana1....if KM & BS do not come out of this alive, in your professional opinion, will the RCMP explain to the general public the evidence they collected to link them to these crimes? Will the RCMP paint us a picture of how all of this took place?

I'm not very familiar with Canadian LE, but I would assume they would indeed lay out all the evidence so the public feels confident that the case has been resolved and there's no unknown danger still lurking out there.

 

[Trooper]

I do not believe that it is possible to survive for seven days in the weather over the last week unless you are properly dressed, with layers, and have shelter.

I also think that it is highly improbable that they walked 25km/15m from the train tracks to York Landing unless they have the right topo map and compass and know orienteering. The Germans managed 10km/6m a day.

If there are doubts about them being spotted at the York Landing dump, they would start with the idea, assuming that it is part of the alleged sighting, that they were lightly dressed. That is simply not consistent with surviving for six days in rain, thunderstorms and temperatures as low as 8°C/45°F.

There is absolutely nothing in your razor sharp conclusion there, Mr rrstren, that can be argued with. The whole scenario of the trek, the managing of the weather and their own temperature has all the hallmarks of a Merlin -type venture. Certainly, people, human beings of various backgrounds have survived appalling conditions, eg. the chap who crawled down a mountain with a broken pelvis, and a broken leg, after falling down a crevasse, across glaciers, snowfields, etc. .. there are amazing , true stories. A man who was lost in the bush for a fortnight, living on moths, and sticky ants, etc. .. building his shelter with his one unbroken arm out of reeds .. one could go on.

But these two. .. I just don't see it. The distances, the conditions, the terrain, the mental situation they are in, all are negative and debilitating. .

 

[Seattle1]

Relative to firing shots by search and rescue:

On Sunday, four days after Byman vanished, a group of searchers fired a gun into the air and heard a faint cry for help. They fired another shot several minutes later and heard another cry, police said.

Using the sound to guide them, the group found Byman in thick brush about 40 minutes later. She had traveled about 1.2 miles southwest from where she was last seen.

"She's obviously made of some strong stuff," her daughter said.

It took firefighters over two hours to clear a path to her and another two hours to return her to civilization, according to RCMP. Byman was taken to a hospital with minor injuries.
A Canadian woman who vanished while picking berries was found five days later - CNN

 

[CharlotteBama]

Two things I keep thinking.

Eyewitnesses are not always correct. They can be sincere but sincerely wrong, especially if they already know what they'd like to or should see. "Where they two tall white guys". Oh yup, yes they were.

I have only worked with this in critical incident reporting in health care but memory and expectations really affect reports and that you can get many very conflicting descriptions of the same incidents. Not deception but perception filtered through unique minds.

So did Bear Clan members see something? Probably, but who knows what, positively.

I also think that whoever was at the dump would have heard a vehicle approaching on an unpaved road before were seen. I'd think they would have already been fleeing with back to the vehicle before the Clan members could see. So how much did they really see well?

No right or wrong but maybe things are not always as reported, but not through any malice. We interpret so much.

 

[Betty P]

Innocent until proven guilty. They have been charged with one murder but we don't know how the victim died (shot? run over accidentally etc), and are suspects in the others, not yet charged.

Please re read my post. If they are innocent, they should turn themselves in. They're just making us situation worse.

 

[CharlotteBama]

Two things I keep thinking.

Eyewitnesses are not always correct. They can be sincere but sincerely wrong, especially if they already know what they'd like to or should see. "Where they two tall white guys". Oh yup, yes they were.

I have only worked with this in critical incident reporting in health care but memory and expectations really affect reports and that you can get many very conflicting descriptions of the same incidents. Not deception but perception filtered through unique minds.

So did Bear Clan members see something? Probably, but who knows what, positively.

I also think that whoever was at the dump would have heard a vehicle approaching on an unpaved road before were seen. I'd think they would have already been fleeing with back to the vehicle before the Clan members could see. So how much did they really see well?

No right or wrong but maybe things are not always as reported, but not through any malice. We interpret so much.

I enjoyed this post very much and am in agreement. Ty.