Found Deceased Canada - Mariam Makhniashvili, 17, Toronto, 14 Sept 2009 - #8

[Chorley8]

"In 2004, a charge of fraud, four counts of impersonating an authority, six counts of possession of property obtained by crime and a single count of sex assault were all withdrawn.
His bail conditions were extensive and included an order to stay away from a theft victim. The conditions also prohibited him from owning or using any computers, accessing the Internet and email and possessing "any 35mm cameras, digital cameras or video cameras."


I document this (on Luka Magnotta) because some here speculated Mariam might reasonably have complied to go along with an authority.

 

[novaspy]

Not that I think this creep had anything to do with MM, but it might be of note, that Luka M. was seen wearing a Micky Mouse t-shirt and at sometime lived at 88 Erskine, near Redpath.

"$2,500 on back rent for an apartment at 88 Erskin Avenue, in Toronto's Mount Pleasant area.
http://www.vancouversun.com/Luka+Ma...veals+life+lacking+glamour/6727237/story.html

88 Erksin, near Redpath, is only a 6 minute walk from where MM was last seen (Roehampton Ave at Redpath).

So weird..

 

[Chorley8]

88 Erksin, near Redpath, is only a 6 minute walk from where MM was last seen (Roehampton Ave at Redpath).

So weird..

I'm confused the bankruptcy listing 88 Erskine was discharged in 2007? Did he live there again? Sorry if I have missed something.

 

[Sillybilly]

"In 2004, a charge of fraud, four counts of impersonating an authority, six counts of possession of property obtained by crime and a single count of sex assault were all withdrawn.
His bail conditions were extensive and included an order to stay away from a theft victim. The conditions also prohibited him from owning or using any computers, accessing the Internet and email and possessing "any 35mm cameras, digital cameras or video cameras."


I document this (on Luka Magnotta) because some here speculated Mariam might reasonably have complied to go along with an authority.

Respectfully Chorley, I think it's unrelated to authority. Numerous other media articles indicate that the charge against Eric C. Newman (Magnotta) was "personation with intent" rather than "impersonating an authority" (just google "magnotta personation" without the quotes)

As i stated over in LRM's thread, i strongly suspect the personation charge relates to Magnotta's fraud charges, (iirc ... he applied for and received credit in someone else's name). This would be personation as defined by the Criminal Code as follows:

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-187.html

IMO, our illustrious media has misinterpreted "personation" to mean "impersonating an authority" (the more common charge that most people are familiar with).

JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

88 Erksin, near Redpath, is only a 6 minute walk from where MM was last seen (Roehampton Ave at Redpath).

So weird..

Just to correct that it was Mariam's brother George/Giorgi who was last seen in that area when he disappeared for a day or so after Mariam went missing.

Magnotta lived at 88 Erskine prior to his bankruptcy which was discharged in December 2007, so it is unlikely that he lived there at the time Mariam disappeared in 2009.

 

[Chorley8]

Silly Billy, "Respectfully" etc. please don't worry it is not as though I think L.L. would never do such a thing, impersonate an authority. But many thanks for the clarification just making sure.

Yes that bankruptcy was discharged earlier but I don't think we know where he was living most of the time including Fall 2009. People move back to neighbourhoods they lived in before.

There is a confluence between the ideas I have had about M.M.'s disappearance and this case not necessarily he himself (but why rule him out yet?) but his confederates kinky, sexually deviant almost beyond belief, with right wing views however inchoate.

But beyond the groups of deviant losers I think there are is a higher up or higher ups connoisseur type or types, intellectuals of however twisted a shape that designed Mariam's disappearance.

One additional odd synchronicity: on his blog on necrophilia L.M. attached an "article" of some kind, possibly a satire, a philosophical defense of necrophilia citing the philosophers Hume and Reid and also citing Derek Parfit's work on Identity.

Vakhtang Makhiashvili wrote at least one academic article on Parfit and Whitehead on identity. Just to be hyper-clear: I am not saying V.M. knows anything about L.M's group but I am wondering if it is possible there is knowledge the other way around. Parfit is famous but hardly a household name. V.M. studied Process Philosophy (not Process Theology!) in LA it is why he went there. Not the same thing but related. Again I am NOT saying V.M.knew about any designs on Mariam I would like to know who he showed her picture to if he did.

 

[outcast]

If possible it would be great if Outcast to iterate her present info and position on:

1. the route to school I am now taking Vesta as correct is it?
2. your information about the strange timing of the police searching the trail and being at the school on September 14th could be absolutely vital. I know you were constantly having to repeat yourself but if you could one more time at least on this issue. I seems to me these times are very odd indeed.

The first police report stated that Mariam and George walked on Vesta Drive. We discussed about that here and we concluded that it must have been an error. It is not logical that Mariam and George would take a detour to walk on Bathurst and then on Vesta to get to the school when more direct route would be just walking on Shallmar.

As for police presence in front of the school during lunch hour on September 14, I found out that it for for unrelated matter. No one knew that Mariam was missing until the end of the school on September 14.

Also, through reliable source I found out that Mariam's first course that morning was Accounting. The location of that classroom did not warrant her going around the school to get to the main entrance. Why she chose not to go inside school with George is a real mistery.

 

[Hazel]

The first police report stated that Mariam and George walked on Vesta Drive. We discussed about that here and we concluded that it must have been an error. It is not logical that Mariam and George would take a detour to walk on Bathurst and then on Vesta to get to the school when more direct route would be just walking on Shallmar.

As for police presence in front of the school during lunch hour on September 14, I found out that it for for unrelated matter. No one knew that Mariam was missing until the end of the school on September 14.

Also, through reliable source I found out that Mariam's first course that morning was Accounting. The location of that classroom did not warrant her going around the school to get to the main entrance. Why she chose not to go inside school with George is a real mistery.

(respectfully bolded by me)

Thank you Outcast for this bit of info. A real mystery indeed, unless she had suicide in mind that morning, that is.

As I already said a long time ago, I asked my children for their opinion about this; they go to their locker first thing in the morning.
Where was Mariam's locker located in relation to the door entrances? Was Mariam's locker closer to the north or south entrance? (assuming she had already been assigned a locker)

 

[Chorley8]

Outcast thank you for clarifying. I am not sure that Vesta would be very far out their way though. Do you know when officers were seen ON THE PATH behind the school? Does sound as though you have cleared this up though.

The point about her first class Accounting is very helpful and Hazel's point about the locker is well taken. I can still remember high school as much as I hated it and yes it is true you always go to your locker first whether you are going to class or to play or sport or play in a band - the locker first. Not sure how we an find out I don't live in the neighbourhood. If anyone knows please send a message here.

I want to document some early media responses LINK BELOW to the news of Mariam's suicide BEFORE the fix, the official version took hold.

I am very impressed by Joe Warmington in this report you can see the other commentator trying to control things a bit, but his face shows real concern and he is obviously very troubled. It is worth watching. I am heartened by his trust in Nealon and McLane. I perhaps have been too cynical about the police role. He knows them and I hope he is right. He thinks they will keep investigating. He deals with both ends of the mystery the bridge and the golf course.

There is another live report I am trying to find there a veteran newscaster is in a virtual state of shock repeating to himself several times "they are saying she jumped from the 401?" in an incredulous tone. I will try to find it but Warmington is worth watching for now.

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2012/03/20120309-134411.html

 

[Chorley8]

1. In the video previous post Joe Warmington of the Sun says of the Western "dreamcatcher" sightings of Mariam (not an exact quote) that they may still turn out to be true etc. I very much like his open approach it is to be emulated.
2. The one place I differ a bit from her parents is that I think five years apart is a long time and it may be that they did not know her or every aspect of her external and internal life in Georgia.
3. At Forest Hill Collegiate there is that little public park with chess boards right in front of the main entrance. I don't know how usual it is for there to be a park where the public may legitimately hang out for as long as they want a few metres from a school. Someone recently told me that he was sitting there the first week she was missing and the police came to ask him about Mariam if he had seen anything. Strange place to have a park.
4. From the school there is an arena and skating club down the hill and across the belt path and the road with parking. Figure skating and hockey I would think and there would be people there in the morning. I guess she could have met someone anywhere but that strikes me as a possibility if they didn't want to be seen.
5. Does anyone remember whether it was ever initially reported that the backpack was found at the no longer used TTC bus platforms at Yonge & Eglinton South West corner? Both my wife and I separately remember this though maybe incorrectly.
6. Why did they get fireman to take the grate off separating the grill where her backpack was found at 120 from the parking lot underground? For what potential evidence not sure what they were thinking.

 

[dotr]

Sorry, do not want to keep poking this particular bear with a stick, but why on earth did MM not just leave her backpack at the school? Depressed people, (especially ones on the verge of suicide) do not have a lot of energy to lug things around imo.

 

[Chorley8]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...m-makhniashvilis-remains-found/article552373/

CTV video I am looking for the continuation of this news report a bit further on Merella and the other newscasters get word that it is "no foul play" and they get even more confused looking and acting than they are here. I think they already know at this point and have been talking about it. I will look for the video but in the meantime:
1. The male newscaster here forget his name rightly questions how the remains could not be found there and like Warmington reminds us that we do not know what happened between September 14th 2009 and Feb. 28th 2012.
2. In the case Merella mentions where remains were found years later the body I believe was BURIED. Actually it is quite interesting some of the language used to describe the retrieval of Mariam made some people question whether they were describing an exhumation. I doubt that but just as a remind.

 

[Chorley8]

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/03/09/remains-are-mariam-sources

Another early report after remains were identified. This one has an unusual shot of the area. I am still not sure where exactly she is said to have jumped from or fallen but I believe it is further down the hill but not much further.

I would like to know where it is in relation to the small flat area part of the way up the hill which seems to get human use the time I inspected it. Also you can't always read people but when the newcaster here says no foul play he too seems to be trying to say something with this facial expression he can't say out loud imo.

Backpack: the least likely thing is that it got to 120 Eg. by chance as police suggest (carried by a student etc.) All of the "baggage" of that address researched by others, the fact that there are links between people there and the part of LA where Mariam's Mom worked (if I am correct on that point) means that either

1. It was left there because there is a direct link between individuals there and the crime including the parking garages of course. This would include people with access to the building and buildings around so there are a huge number of possibilities even here of course.
2. It was left there as a message to someone since almost no one knows anything about the building that could not be many people either the police, the family, or ?
3. It was left there as a false clue to get police and family of Mariam barking up the wrong tree this is actually quite possible.
4. Mariam left it there or threw it out of a car as a clue (highly unlikely not impossible).
5. Someone who committed the crime or knew someone who did was somehow aware of the articles on-line about 120. I would have thought this next to impossible except that Luka Magnotta appears to have done just that at least one and possibly twice.

I think it more likely that the backpack was deliberately left to be found. I think it was supposed to be identified earlier. I am not sure that all of the good samaritans handling the backpack and speaking to media around the area(s) are really good samaritans.

For example the interview with "residents" at 120 and also at 20 Shallmar (a glib young man can't post it of course) are they really residents?? I know A. Nezhadi is legit (I just mean he had reason to be there). I have already posted some comments about the 2009 March for Mariam some names rang a bell when I read them.

 

[Chorley8]

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1687843065001/evidence-in-morgan-harrington-investigation/

A different case discussed on this link but this has a relevant discussion about the difficulties of obtaining evidence from skeletal remains. If I understand Fuhrman correctly it is interesting he says that DNA technology is far from perfect. In the case of this woman her body was mostly skeletalized but there was some soft tissue but probably not enough to know if she was sexually assaulted. It is a bit relevant but this poor woman had a lot of broken bones. As with the knapsack (my previous post) the possibilities seem to be (please add to these if you can think of anything) 1. suicide 2. misadventure (these are the two police theories) 3. murder thrown or dropped probably alive but possibly dead (or drugged) from the bridge earlier posters mentioned the idea of a van with sliding doors as a possibility given how busy the traffic is 4. a staged crime scene some time between September 14th 2009 and February 28th 2012 probably somewhere in the middle or a least not too close to either of the above dates.

The problem is as far as I know only the police and the two dog-walkers know the exact place her body was found. Usually you can differentiate a fall from a suicide leap since suicides fall a bit further out, when people fall they are usually trying NOT to fall and they fall closer to the bridge/height. Thrown would of course usually mean too far out and police would know, dropped it seems to me could simulate a fall. I am not sure they can really know if she was alive or not at the time I would love to know the science of that.

I favour the staged crime scene hypothesis because of 1. the near impossibility of her not being seen when jumping 2. pace the police theory there were NO signs she was suicidally depressed and it is just such an odd spot for a newcomer to choose or anyone to choose for that matter 3. the near impossibility of her remains not being found on the golf course 4. all the weirdnesses of the backpack placement

The problem with the staged crime scene are the injuries similar to the fall. That I admit is a real crux, a problem. Of course she could have been dropped from a height elsewhere. I would think that if the broken bones were from a different type of injury saying being hit by a car they would be able to tell (?). I hope there is a really good Coroner on the case. I really need to read some forensics texts hard to find time though.

Finally there is 5. that the remains aren't Mariam's there is a mistake with the DNA. I have hesitated to say this because I don't want to drive her family completely around the bend and I know people like to stay attached to the myth that we are a society of well-meaning experts.

I know nothing about how the DNA was collected. But what they are already asking us to believe is so strange and the case has been so strange.... I just wish things were a lot more open here and the police would give us more info (I am not blaming Toronto it is a Canadian thing). For all the complaints about Nancy Grace et al at least people are allowed to know things, important things. If there was a criminal trial then of course the DNA would be studied by the lawyers maybe retested they would query how it was obtained and importantly was tissue, marrow, hair etc. was used.

(Sorry just tried to link the URL but the Fox video shows I realize that it has to be removed had no way of knowing)

 

[Chorley8]

previous reference was to Morgan Harrington homicide and Fox news report easily searchable on Google

 

[dotr]

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/1069113
This was an odd case with geographical similarities...

 

[Chorley8]

Going back to the discussion about the call saying Mariam was being held at 120 Redpath which doesn't exist. I think that was a serious call.

I think it is an amalgam of two buildings 120 Eglinton and (importantly) 123 Eglinton which faces Redpath (and could very well be 120 Redpath if the entrance faced that way). Plush building.

I would like to know the configuration of the underground parking garages in both buildings. The two buildings are kitty corner to each other just metres apart. Could there be any correspondence underground between the two buildings? This is not essential of course but wondering.

Due to rules here can't post the photo evidence part of this from September 14th to September 17th 2009 which references these two buildings.

Though this is not part of my thinking about this exactly oddly there is a "psychic" (what I would simply call 'intuitive') reference on-line to the address 111 Lillian (again at Eglinton) as important which could be the same building if the entrance faced Lillian one street west of Redpath.

 

[Chorley8]

One thing that is great about WS is that in the future just the right person might read one of our posts and it will help even if the thread is pretty dead at present.

the grate where the backback is found is very very deep and seems to connect to the parking garage or some other underground tunnel.

it doesn't appear that it is fastened down in any real way though it would be heavy there is a very rusty lock still not sure what those firemen were doing

the school at 120 Eglinton is another factor lots of students from there smoke out the back in the parking lot as do lots of people working in the building. The grate is not visible from there though.



the landlord or neighbour at 101 roehampton has a very strong light on their patio almost a searchlight.

My sense of the neighbourhood is that people are very vigilant. If the backpack was there by chance I do not see why anyone would care now (as we see here people happily move into the homes of the murdered etc). Lots of thick reinforced glass buildings. Overall the presence of Governments plural.

Two questions I have which maybe nobody can answer though possibly somebody knows of something mentioned that I missed 1. is Mariam fond of sweets? Crepes? Cinnabuns? I am thinking of the Cinnabun kiosk at Yonge Eglinton subway and also Cafe Demetre at Redpath and Eglinton the latter of course with the name of the goddess Demeter whose daughter is kidnapped and taken to the underworld then partially rescued (part of the year) after she is sleuthed by her mother in the Underworld.

2. Also she watched movies with her Dad - were they aware of a book called The Film Club about a man who watches films with his teenage child as a kind of education and a kind of therapy it was a huge international success?

3. Is she a chess player?

reading old posts I was impressed Outcast's premonitions before Mariam disappeared that Mayfair could be trouble. But I am still exploring if she could have walked away I think the belt line across Yonge basically to just south of where her bag was found is possible also Chaplin Crescent which is accessible easily from the school and curves around like the belt-line path to Davisville. Probably cameras at Davisville though not sure about Chaplin and Eg. It would be great to know what cameras were checked after September 14th 2009 for example I doubt Davisville would be checked but I don't know.l

4. Did she talk to 'Photographica" (referring to the psychic post) at the library ior n the little park in front of her school?

5. Was she or her father or mother an admirer of Leonardo da Vinci?

Thanks

 

[dotr]

Random response to Chorley8, David Gilmour's book was candid and enjoyable!

The Film Club - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sweet tooth?
http://www.canadianmysteries.ca/sites/redpath/settings/indexen.html

 

[Chorley8]

In the spirit of Warmington's admonition that it could still turn out to be true that Mariam was in Alberta:

I didn't take the Alberta sightings very seriously I must admit. The possibilities would seem to be 1. People were mistaken and Mariam was never in Alberta (by far the most likely possibility) 2. she was there police never located her 3. it was a hoax 4. it was a hoax but the hoaxer was sending a message. I realize regarding 2. police did locate someone they thought was the look-alike and for 4. I saw video of the woman who said she saw Mariam and she seemed sincere if probably mistaken.

But I hadn't realized that the Okotoks sighting was ON her birthday (if media are correct some say around some say on) that is interesting. Okotoks is close in sound to Okhotsk as in the Sea of Okhotsk but that is a long way from Georgia or Calgary for that matter. Still, her birthday.... The other two were Grand Prairie and Hinton a really small place that last one.

Almost certainly irrelevant but what came into my mind when I first heard about Alberta and I admit I was not paying a lot of attention then it just seemed odd and improbable - but what popped into my mind when I heard of the itinerant dream catcher sellers were the people selling toys in malls who were deported after 9/11 from the U.S. - they were it seems spying on the hijackers for another gov. Not sure why that image would pop into my mind.

I am sorry I didn't look more into Mariam's story earlier. On March 9th I met someone downtown the first thing they said to me was "it's Mariam" I didn't even understand what she meant for a second but then I felt a very deep stomach wrenching feeling of what I guess I would call a deep 'disappointment'. I was a bit surprised at my own reaction I hadn't followed the story super closely it all seemed difficult to understand. But obviously I had wanted her to turn up ok.

We walked over to Bay and ran into a mentioned author they seemed in disarray and I wondered if it was because of Mariam - I know writers talk in libraries and schools often in TO and no doubt they could feel very affected I wonder if they ever talked at her school or library though of course for all I know something else was bothering them. It is hard to take everything in on a first reading so I just noticed now that Okotoks was apparently on her birthday not to be dismissed entirely perhaps.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/736661--another-mariam-sighting-in-alberta