Found Deceased Canada - Mariam Makhniashvili, 17, Toronto, 14 Sept 2009 - #8

[Chorley8]

Rose of Sharon post on previous thread:

"I'm not positive NS, but I think if there is any dried blood, or any other type of dried bodily fluid on that clothing, they could extract DNA, but unless they have MM's DNA for comparison, I don't think they will know whom the DNA belongs to.

Whomever this person is (deceased) and if it is not a suicide, I think they will be able to extract a lot of DNA from the clothing. LE hasn't said if the clothing is male clothing or female clothing. The perp, if there is one, may have taken his/her clothing off when he/she left the body. IMO"

Interesting idea that DNA was taken from clothing. I would like to know where the DNA was taken from I would think surely not from clothing, could be wrong. On this note see Matou's comments 329 and 330 of thread 7 and comment by forensic anthropologist that it might take three months she was there at the scene and worked on the remains I wonder what changed.

Another interesting fact on that thread I didn't know or had forgotten was that the Hoggs Hollow Bridge was closed overnight not sure about 2009 but for sure 2010 some nights maybe important details.

Outcast on previous thread I think has now explained this away and does not think this is relevant I am not so sure still:

" There was no chance for Mariam to miss more lunches with her brother: September 14, 2009 was her fifth day in school ever in Canada, and the school just started one week before. In the previous week she was in school for only four days. Remember, she was so new to this country. The school is literaly 5 minutes walk from the building where they lived. I assume parents chose this upscale neighbourhood because they wanted their children to be safe. Nothing ever happens in Forest Hill.

I remember seeing the police car in front of Forest Hill Collegiate around the lunch hour, on September 14, 2009. It may have been there for different reason, but I thought it was peculiar. You do not see police cars in front of that school very often. Later I found out that family contacted police only after school day ended. If that is true, I find it to be exctermely quick response because I saw police walking on Key Gardiner trail that runs behind the building where Makhniashvili's lived at the time. It was around 5 pm on September 14, 2009. If family contacted police after the school ended, which is around 3:30, to have police patrolling the area at 5 pm, I find it quite amazing" .
__________________

 

[Chorley8]

On this last point previous point not to belabour this but it is important so question to Outcast (and sorry I realize you answered a question on this topic before for which thanks):

What was the SOURCE of the info that police were at the school for another reason that afternoon and on the path around 5:00 that day?


Always good to know the source of information. Sometimes the ones who 'know' are the ones dissimulating. (I realize your info and your interpretation is probably correct but....)

THANKS!

 

[Chorley8]

Though I am 100% against the suicide hypothesis in Mariam's case I don't want that to be at the expense of the subtext, that so many kids kill themselves. One poster here had a story of two teens in Russian jumping off a building cause they had skipped school and were afraid of parents I wish I had never heard that story, so terrible. Different age woman different time the era of easy friendships and free love etc. but still I think in this song Canada's chanteur is really reaching out for this loss friend victim of despair - even beyond an audience of maybe a 100,000 people to his lost friend - song has bugged me for 40 years for my own personal reasons.

Seems so long ago, Nancy - Leonard Cohen - YouTube

and hey moribund thread partly I am sure because of this idiotic stigma of suicide but another lovely "suppressed" song by same bard I mean recorded 67 released few years ago for same kind of reasons I gave so hope this is ok who knows maybe it will help get us by the stigma and look at what happened to this particular girl in this particular place at this particular time she more than deserves it.

Leonard Cohen - Blessed Is The Memory - YouTube

Questions linger on a teenager’s death






http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news... RSS/Atom&utm_source=Home&utm_content=2372391

 

[dotr]

Thanks for those poignant songs, one's heart could break.

Efforts at Mariam's school to help newcomersl.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/06/01/filipino_students_adjust_to_new_parents_their_own.html

"At Forest Hill, Filipino parents suggested to Aitchison more one-on-one tutoring, more personal counselling for emotional issues related to reunification, and better assessment of their children’s academic skills when they arrive.

Aitchison and ESL teachers Halas and Andrew Oosterhauf decided to try the homework club. For weeks, Filipino students would tell her politely they would come and try her homework club, but come the day, would not show up.

“If I could get these students to open up to me by sitting down on the floor with them, I’d do it, so they’d know we’re all in this together,” says the principal.

She held a planning meeting with pizza and pop. She asked students which teachers they’d be comfortable with as tutors. As part of an ice-breaker, the students learned her first name, and she confessed that a homework club was where she met her future husband years ago.

This week, finally, 10 students showed up.

Says Aitchison: “It’s a start.”

 

[Chorley8]

A homework club? A few suggestions:

Trip to TIFF Lightbox fantastic theatre many free films nice for dates and meetups. Film festival, other events free concerts of all types.

Swimming pools gyms talk about safety in the city, important.

Harbourfront: explain free events (and non-free) for me Toronto rarely comes close to greatness but a concert by an African band on a summer night at Harbourfront - fantastic - the number one album in Ghana some years ago was called Toronto Nights. Somali kids a major Toronto diaspora - Chief's barbershop the number one source for Somali music in the world.

See where the kids are from and visit each others ethnic stores or areas talk about music share videos, try each others food, why not visit each others places of worship where allowed by parents - play games around memory tell them to ask parents for examples of 'oral history' things passed down examine those critically - compare folkstories, fashion what are your symbols what matters to you? (I find young people like to talk indirectly about relationships beauty and sexuality by discussing fashion not a terrible really alien to me but nothing wrong).

They should still do their homework though LOL. Let's not make them wait till they are as hold as Peggy A. or me to have fun!!! Of course some kids are shy maybe Mariam was, at least in a way, but LOTS love to perform if you ask some of them will already be writing songs poems have talents you have no idea of. Try asking. The others are usually good listeners too performers need an audience.

I remember someone who went into the Broadway cafe in Saskatoon excitedly phoned his music business friend you are not going to believe this but there is this teen girl working at the Broadway she has these songs she claims are hers.....Joni Mitchell. Same thing with Mary J. Blige singing in a karaoke someone heard her drove across town to go get his music producer friend. Wyclef Jean featuring Mary J. Blige - 911 ft. Mary J. Blige - YouTube

Keep the homework club but add to it.

(Ok I promise no more links to songs on WS for one calendar year LOL.)

 

[Chorley8]

Ok sometimes there are slivers of truth anywhere so here is what the poster from 2013 that can be found by googling "Mariam Makhhiashvili missing close to home" seems to be saying though it is hard to understand what he/she is saying.

1. Best part is that they mock the idea that Mariam's remains would not have been found in September or October 2009 by canines, searchers, workers on the bridge or just the general public. It is absolutely absurd there I 100% agree with them.

2. Seems to be saying Mariam was held and killed around Duplex and Berwick in many of the abandoned homes that were there at the time waiting for a condo project to get permission. That her body was buried there then moved at some later date.

3. Claims that he/she I mean the poster at the site thwarted a false flag terror attack at Canada Square unclear how.

4. Ok even I cannot suspend disbelief to this extent - he/she claims that there are videos of Mariam being held at Canada Square in a bank vault and this has something to do with powers in Canada US and Britain - provides no motive.

5.This the suicide story (of Mariam) is related to the case on a high level intelligence operation that involved the murder of Gareth Williams and the making of snuff films and is related to the London bombing false flag operation (alleged by this person).

6. I have to admit I have no idea what this person is talking about. They link things without any kind of evidence of any kind.

7. Why give an account of this here on WS then? While the claims are wild the overall point that poor Mariam somehow got caught up in something that is absurdly over her own head is possible even likely. Even her parents don't seems to have a clue to how this could happen. I believe them.

8. So we need to keep thinking.

9. By the way in my 'on the streets' investigation into this case I notice that people at least to me are now overwhelmingly going with the idea that she was thrown off the bridge. I think this is because 1. the suicide theory makes no sense. 2. it makes no sense that she wasn't found. Problem here would be
1. How could you throw a body in a way that would match a suicide that would take a bit of luck
2. if her remains were in poor shape you are back with the problem how was she there for so long? How could it be that none of her remains were scattered down the few metres downhill to the golf course?

3. So then mostly likely thing however improbable is that someone created the scene at the golf course more or less scientifically to fool police.

4. But who and why?

 

[Chorley8]

Pace the suicide expert on the W5 show on Mariam I really did like Sandy Rinaldo confronting her I mean she did not get it out but she really doubted her which was great IMO. So here is info from the CAMH site:

"Suicide can be prevented. Most people who die by suicide have shown warning signs that they were thinking of killing themselves"

She argued the opposite I mean the suicide expert.

 

[dotr]

Mariam's former school in the news again..
http://www.680news.com/2013/06/24/high-school-teacher-charged-with-child-luring/


"TORONTO, Ont. – Police have laid new charges against a teacher from Forest Hill Collegiate, already charged with sexual assault, following an additional victim coming forward.

C P, 40, already under arrest for incidents which allegedly took place in April and back in 2011, is now charged with luring a child, invitation to sexual touching and sexual interference"

snipped,initialed bm.
"Police believe there may be additional victims, and are asking anyone with information to contact police"

 

[dotr]

Russian physics/ dancer student goes missing in Edinburgh.

UK Russian student missing in Scotland - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[outcast]

7. Why give an account of this here on WS then? While the claims are wild the overall point that poor Mariam somehow got caught up in something that is absurdly over her own head is possible even likely. Even her parents don't seems to have a clue to how this could happen. I believe them.

One thing is for sure, we must not allow Mariam to be forgotten. We all know there are crimes that are never solved, but also that there are crimes that were solved because the victim was not forgotten.

8. So we need to keep thinking.

And big "yes" to this!

 

[Chorley8]

Just copying this post from the Missing persons thread a post by Valley (something sorry forget second word in name) quoting Deeds.

Anyone know if these people are still missing? Basically some posts there and also on UC explore the idea of a link between various missing persons in Toronto. Problem is when a person if found say a runaway it becomes a private family thing and it seems there is no update. Person is trying to link up some of these in possibly in terms of a 'type' and includes Mariam M.
Originally Posted by Deeds View Post
I don't believe the Elizabeth Bain case is related to this string of events, but who knows it could be. My opinion is that this string started within the last two years... looking back at cases I wonder about the Mariam Makhniashvili case cause she fits the type. Yes I realize Mariam was found. The reference at the end by Valley is to the Elizabeth Bains case.

Mariam Makhniashvili

white, 5’3”, 140 pounds, with light-brown shoulder-length hair and brown eyes.

More missing;

Cindy Seminario, 14, was last seen on Wednesday, January 12, 2011, at about 7:45 a.m., in the Jane Street/Firgrove Crescent area.

She is described as Hispanic, 5', 100 lbs, dark-brown eyes and below-shoulder-length black hair.

http://justice4caylee.forumotion.net...-14-toronto-on

Brianna Davis, 15, was last seen on Wednesday, June 1, 2011, at 8 a.m., in the Jane
Street/Falstaff Avenue area.

She is described as brown, 5’9”, 150 lbs., brown eyes with long, black hair.

Police are concerned for her safety.

http://justice4caylee.forumotion.net...-15-toronto-on

Yoou Mi Heo, 16, was last seen on Thursday, June 23, 2011, at 7 p.m., in the Madison Avenue/Bloor Street West area.

She is described as having a thin build with long brown straight hair.

http://www.liquida.com/page/26138368/


Annemarie Filazola, 14, was last seen on Tuesday, August 2, 2011, in the Danforth Road/Eglinton Avenue area.

She is described as white, 5’3", 119 lbs., brown curly hair with brown eyes.

CANADA Canada - Annemarie Filazola 14,missing from Toronto since August 2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

I don't believe Elizabeth is connected with this string of events either.
I was refering to the skull that was found because Bain's body was never found.

 

[dotr]

Another teacher in nearby community...


http://www.torontosun.com/2013/07/0...in-facing-child-*advertiser censored*-charges

"Benjamin Levin, 61 - a professor at Ontario Institute for Studies in Education - was arrested Monday after an online, multi-jurisdictional, child exploitation investigation.

He is charged with two counts of child *advertiser censored* distribution, and one count each of the making of child *advertiser censored*, counseling to commit an indictable offence and arrangement of a sexual offence against a child under 16"


SNIP



"“I’m shocked to see things like this in this neighourhood, they should be locked up forever,” said Dan Mojatovic, who is frequently in the neighbourhood. “People should be concerned there are so many schools nearby.”

Lawrence Park High School is among several schools in the neighbourhood. “My daughters went to school in this neighbourhood- It is disturbing to hear something like this has happened here,” added Mojatovic".

 

[Chorley8]

It has been asked:

1. Could Mariam have been hidden IN the school for some time? My impression was that LE assumed from the beginning that she did not make it into the school am I correct?

2. Could she have been led away and astray by an authority figure at the school?

I mean that makes the most sense it is a bit farfetched to imagine Russell Williams or a phoney police officer cruising up Mayfair at school hour. Not impossible but not likely.

Still, why Mariam?

 

[outcast]

On this last point previous point not to belabour this but it is important so question to Outcast (and sorry I realize you answered a question on this topic before for which thanks):

What was the SOURCE of the info that police were at the school for another reason that afternoon and on the path around 5:00 that day?

Always good to know the source of information. Sometimes the ones who 'know' are the ones dissimulating. (I realize your info and your interpretation is probably correct but....)

THANKS!

I do not know if I answered this question before or not.
The info that police were at the school for another reason around lunch time was confirmed for me by one of the former vice prinicpals at FHCI.
I have no additional information about the search behind the building at around 5 pm on that day.
Also, there was a separate accident on Mayfair in the same week when Mariam disappeared when a female student was pushed to the ground by someone ( not clear if it was someone she knew...). This girl was hurt while hitting the pavement, not badly, just bruised, and the ambulance was called ( I saw it). It was on Wednesday of that week of September 14, 2009.
At that time posters posted by MM family were already put on the street poles, but I did not noticed it until that Wednesday when I stopped to see what happened on Mayfair. One of the students who I asked about the ambulance also pointed out to me that there is a missing girl. What I found extremely interesting is that within 2 weeks or so, all the posters with Mariam's picture disappeared. I think I mentioned this before here...

 

[outcast]

It has been asked:

1. Could Mariam have been hidden IN the school for some time? My impression was that LE assumed from the beginning that she did not make it into the school am I correct?

That is correct. I remember the school principal being adamant that Mariam is kind of a runaway, even inviting her to come back home ( ????? ). I was then cuirous, and I am even more curious now - why would she say something like this?

2. Could she have been led away and astray by an authority figure at the school?

Wasn't that pedophile gym teacher arrested only recently after working for a few years at FHCI? How many more of them are still there????

I mean that makes the most sense it is a bit farfetched to imagine Russell Williams or a phoney police officer cruising up Mayfair at school hour. Not impossible but not likely.

Still, why Mariam?

Yes, it is possible that she was lured by somone she knew... I can even see that she was hidden somewhere in the school ( has anyone checked the school at that time?).

 

[dotr]

Another recent arrest concerning someone working with teens.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...irector_facing_child_pornography_charges.html

"Thorburn was formerly a lecturer on music history at the University of Waterloo, and he also taught at Lakehead University’s Orillia campus.

He is married to Canadian actress Ramona Gilmour-Darling, who played Loonette the Clown on a popular children’s television show, The Big Comfy Couch.

The Ontario Provincial Police Orillia detachment and child sexual exploitation unit began investigating after several teenage girls in the Barrie and Orillia area reported that a stranger contacted them online claiming to represent modeling agencies, and wanted to photograph them in exchange for money.

The man was accused of meeting and paying the girls, ranging in age from 14 to 17, on several occasions. Police allege he took photos of the girls for the purpose of making child *advertiser censored* and also offered the teens money for sex in several of these meetings.

OPP Det. Insp. Scott Naylor alleges the man used a fake social media identity to develop a trusting relationship with one of the girls online and then used her friends list to find the other teenage girls"







http://barrie.ctvnews.ca/sandy-thorburn-arrest-a-cautionary-tale-for-budding-models-online-1.1369979

Bbm.
A highly respected member of the arts community, Thorburn now faces a slew of luring and child *advertiser censored* charges after police arrested the 49-year-old on Friday at the Monte Carlo Inn in Barrie. At the time of his arrest he was with a 17 year old girl – someone police say he met online using one of his many aliases.

While most of the profiles associated to Thorburn by police have been deactivated on the website Model Mayhem, one comment from one of his aliases, Theron Spyra, shows him contacting a 17 year old girl in England.

His other aliases allegedly include Ryan Wardle, Andre Stein and Lydia Lensky, a profile still active at Model Mayhem.

While Thorburn had ties to several communities across southern Ontario, police say he met all of his alleged victims online. And given the number of aliases he's said to have used, police say there could be more victims.

“These were naive young girls manipulated by a predator,” says Insp. Scott Naylor. “I can't say that these girls were looking to jumpstart a career in modelling. They were 14 to 17 years old without parental consent.”

Police say Thorburn was leading a double life: posing as a photographer and model scout online, while also teaching and acting

Read more: http://barrie.ctvnews.ca/sandy-thor...budding-models-online-1.1369979#ixzz2Zgz0lnFg

 

[Chorley8]

Very interesting about the posters being torn down.

 

[Chorley8]

Can anyone find the posted date of this scribe file that was composed my username Robert Fridman? I realize it has been posted on these threads at least twice. If I remember correctly it was October 2009 and it occurred to me (should have been obvious) that this is MANY months before Langer bailed out Vakhtang. If Robert Fridman and Langer are one and the same person it means he was working on the case very early on. VERY early on. What would that suggest? I mean as to who hired him?

As I say I can't find the posted date on the file at the moment. You need to scroll down to see the work he did which was considerable. And if you press "more" on the main page you get the mention of Mariam.

Russian Girls, ESL and Virtual Offices: 120 Eglinton Ave East, Toronto

 

[dotr]

Can anyone find the posted date of this scribe file that was composed my username Robert Fridman? I realize it has been posted on these threads at least twice. If I remember correctly it was October 2009 and it occurred to me (should have been obvious) that this is MANY months before Langer bailed out Vakhtang. If Robert Fridman and Langer are one and the same person it means he was working on the case very early on. VERY early on. What would that suggest? I mean as to who hired him?

As I say I can't find the posted date on the file at the moment. You need to scroll down to see the work he did which was considerable. And if you press "more" on the main page you get the mention of Mariam.

Russian Girls, ESL and Virtual Offices: 120 Eglinton Ave East, Toronto

Video link no longer available..

 

[Chorley8]

Google Russian girls 120 Eglinton East that should bring it up. If you see the date the files were uploaded on Scribe that would refresh my/our memories.

It is a big thing: someone was hired no later than October 2009 if I am right to look into the building where the backpack had been left outside of!

And months later at least 8 months later? they are still interested enough to throw down 50,000 for bail and host her Dad for a while at their house.

Now who the heck would that be who is hiring the P.I.? Nothing wrong with any of these actions just curious what it means....what were they thinking......
Why did whoever hired Langer not thing it was a runaway, a suicide even after the various 'sightings".

It is very unlikely that person suspected anyone in Mariam's family it seems to me.

It has to be something else

Now is the Rosie Dimanno story true or was their some other reason VM got angry and paranoid assuming he was paranoid about the P.I. and his wife? Now I am just wondering if he thought that someone holding Mariam had hired the P.I. ( I am not saying I believe that).

Also as I posted here one already the fact that when Mariam's brother took off for a night his Dad thought that it had to be professional kidnappers.....that is really an amazing statement because it takes the sex motive (probably) out of the equation. There was no ransom request for Mariam. So who did he think these kidnappers were?

Adding just to be clear as mentioned before "Robert Fridman" was the name Langer used when contacting Mariam's relatives in Tblisi to ask about bail etc. for V.M. so I am assuming (just assuming) he is the author of the Scribe research.