CANADA Canada - Mary Ann Plett, 29, Edmonton AB, Sept 15 1971

[pleasestandby]

Were the property owners the only folks he called in his attempts to track her down?

https://books.google.ca/books?id=kh...edir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=mary ann plett&f=false

I'd have to agree, it appears they were the only ones. I think panic mode was setting in for Jake, and for Mary Ann's coworker, Schultz. They were reacting to a punctual, down-to-earth hard worker suddenly operating outside the norm.

 

[dotr]

One can see, by both instances in the book, previously quoted, that Jake didn't get out of class until 10:00 AM, the same time his wife left for her appointment and that he picked up his sister-in-law at 8:00 AM. Assuming it's a one hour class and he picks the S-I-L up, as usual, at 8:00 AM, if it takes an hour to get there, it also takes an hour to get back home so it would be eleven before he got home. The book says well before noon which I take as 11:30 AMish tops. (Would Mary Ann have waited at the mall an hour/hour and a half?)

Assuming that grade school gets out at 3:00 PM, that makes only a 4 hour window of opportunity in which Jake goes to the mall, incapacitates his wife, throws her in the trunk (where her wig falls off), drives through city traffic and then 170km/105mi at 55mph for 1.91 hours to the Ft. Assinibone area, dumps her body off in one location, drives to another location and disposes of her clothes off the side of the road, drives to another location, gets rid of her suitcase, drives to yet another location, gets rid of real estate papers, then makes the 170km/105mi 1.91 hour trip back to Edmonton doing 55mph, drives through city traffic and gets home in time to pick his kids up from school, or meet them at home, at 3:00 pm.

I highly doubt it. If the statement by the woman about the victim and killer being seen out at the acreage is true, that would make the above scenario that much more incredible.

Considering that a serial killer didn't get her, which is probably what happened, I'd say the next best scenario was she was taking business away from another (jealous) realtor who was losing business because of her success. That's why the paperwork was hidden, in two locations, no less, and not brought back. The killer thought there would be something in the papers implicating him in the crime and he was making sure there was no evidence being brought back. That's the angle I'd pursue, second to a serial killer scenario.

As far as Jake marrying so soon after the murder, he came to grips with reality and moved on with his life.

rbbm.
The jealous realtor angle is interesting- an sk can also be a realtor and a realtor could also be married to an sk.
A colleague or rival real estate person?
imo.

 

[Clouddippingdown]

imo, location, location, location.... the voice that was reported by the 3 women in the Tuccaro cell phone recording grew up in the Forest Heights area. Placing Mr. Cooper in his mid 40's at the time would however, allow for a 20 year difference in age and by all accounts could we be looking at a hereditary disposition. We've got Mr. Cooper driving by MAP's place of business after her abduction and 10 years later Mr. Christensen driving up to Kelly Cook's door for her abduction. Both accounts of age match at times of homicides. Could we get google earth for the property and the find site?

 

[Clouddippingdown]

We know there was no dna evidence from Mary Ann's case, is there any mention of dna from Kellly's case?

 

[Sillybilly]

imo, location, location, location.... the voice that was reported by the 3 women in the Tuccaro cell phone recording grew up in the Forest Heights area. Placing Mr. Cooper in his mid 40's at the time would however, allow for a 20 year difference in age and by all accounts could we be looking at a hereditary disposition. We've got Mr. Cooper driving by MAP's place of business after her abduction and 10 years later Mr. Christensen driving up to Kelly Cook's door for her abduction. Both accounts of age match at times of homicides. Could we get google earth for the property and the find site?

<bbm>

Cloud, do you have a link to the bolded part above?

 

[pleasestandby]

<bbm>

Cloud, do you have a link to the bolded part above?

Not your link you requested but a link to the conversation.

[video=youtube;mwqZcfJN6gs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwqZcfJN6gs"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwqZcfJN6gs[/video]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/aboriginal/amber-tuccaro-s-unsolved-murder-do-you-recognize-this-voice-1.3102635

The voice (to me) sounds a lot younger and not gravelly as reported in the Plett case. I think the driver slipped up and said they were driving south of Beaumont, but then corrected himself and changed it to north of Beaumont. If they were north of Beaumont, they would have already gone through Beaumont. I'd call that a Freudian slip and a clue as to their general location and which way they were really headed. I wonder how many more mistakes he made in the 17 minute conversation and why they haven't released the rest of it.

As you know, her body was found south of Edmonton, in Leduc.

https://goo.gl/maps/X2JXHoZ3HTQ2

 

[Sillybilly]

Not your link you requested but a link to the conversation.

<rsbm>

Thanks for the link, cloud.

The video also says the RCMP checked into that individual and he is not a person of interest (in Amber's case).

 

[Clouddippingdown]

<rsbm>

Thanks for the link, cloud.

The video also says the RCMP checked into that individual and he is not a person of interest (in Amber's case).

At the time of the CBC interview and release I'm wondering if they hadn't uncovered some more discrepancies as to the handling of the investigation. It seems to me as if the 3 women must have had some ground to stand on and the past handling doesn't appear to be polished, imo.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/family-of-amber-tuccaro-files-complaint-against-rcmp-1.2620875

 

[Clouddippingdown]

Can we give Amber a bump and move these posts over there? That Freudian slip has me thinking... and a reason that they may not have released more of it.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/Magn...1fa00c4af6155d!2m2!1d-113.4909267!2d53.544389

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2012/12/...nd-forgive-moms-unknown-killer-41-years-later

"29-year-old Mary Ann Plett unsolved 1971 homicide. The trunk of MaryAnn Plett containing a wig a rug with traces of blood matching Plett. Mary Ann Plett an Edmonton real estate agent who went missing in the Looma (a hamlet within Leduc County) southeast of Edmonton, Alta. on Sept 15, 1971 after meeting with a prospective client named "James Cooper." Police were never able to locate a person by that name."

I am happy to see the thread moving. And I am behind. But I wanted to ask about this photo. In America I don't usually see more than one tire in ones trunk. And was wondering if this perhaps was a common practice in Canada. The husband may have told them the answer. And the blanket does not seem it was tossed inside the trunk. But appears to be more in a laying position.

 

[dotr]

I am happy to see the thread moving. And I am behind. But I wanted to ask about this photo. In America I don't usually see more than one tire in ones trunk. And was wondering if this perhaps was a common practice in Canada. The husband may have told them the answer. And the blanket does not seem it was tossed inside the trunk. But appears to be more in a laying position.

Hi Mr TT, nice to see you!
It seems somehow, that the wig and blanket were placed by the killer to suggest/ replicate, a body position, imo, or maybe LE moved the items to recreate the scene?
speculation.

 

[musicaljoke]

I am happy to see the thread moving. And I am behind. But I wanted to ask about this photo. In America I don't usually see more than one tire in ones trunk. And was wondering if this perhaps was a common practice in Canada. The husband may have told them the answer. And the blanket does not seem it was tossed inside the trunk. But appears to be more in a laying position.

The tires look like snow tires on rims. It seems a bit early in the season to have the snow tires in the trunk, but I would defer to a local person to know whether or not having the snow tires in the trunk is normal for the middle of September. Back in the 70s it was pretty common to put on only two snow tires, instead of four, as we do now. And, some people who don't use their trunk much, or who have no garage space to store them, or who can't lift them out of the trunk, or who are too lazy to bother, might just leave them there until it's time to put them back on. The summer-tire season in Edmonton might be fairly short.

 

[STANDREID]

You have prostitutes of course but, as far as legitimate occupations go, is anyone else thinking that female real estate agent might be the most dangerous job a woman can have? There are several of these cases in Canada, the U. K. and here in the U. S. There was in fact one that occurred about 60 miles from me (Sherry Lewis) and it is unsolved as well.

 

[Clouddippingdown]

You have prostitutes of course but, as far as legitimate occupations go, is anyone else thinking that female real estate agent might be the most dangerous job a woman can have? There are several of these cases in Canada, the U. K. and here in the U. S. There was in fact one that occurred about 60 miles from me (Sherry Lewis) and it is unsolved as well.

They're easy to lure out to a potentially dangerous situation because "it's their job." And cowards tend to pick easy targets because being a coward is their job. You must remember when dealing with these "type" of predators we really are digging to the bottom of the barrel because that's where they lay and regurgitate all their stories and lies. I'm thinking; however, that perhaps one of the most dangerous jobs to have for a woman when it comes to a SK could be maybe living with one, especially when it comes to doing the laundry because that would be the first thing to blame when it comes to all that nasty stuff going on down there. I hear they're not entirely reliable and I'm thinking, but I may be somewhat misled here, that if one were to look for a middle aged or elderly SK then they would be found either living with their mother or in a dirty bug infested retreat. Who else could put up with them and still be nice after all those years of degraded thinking because in order to do what they do then they would pretty much have to hate even their own mother which wouldn't leave much room for a decent woman in their life, at least for any decent length of time unless of course she was mentally challenged and even then I suppose her patience would grow thin over a course of many years and who would blame her if she suffocated the sob in his sleep. Just some thoughts.

 

[pleasestandby]

They're easy to lure out to a potentially dangerous situation because "it's their job." And cowards tend to pick easy targets because being a coward is their job. You must remember when dealing with these "type" of predators we really are digging to the bottom of the barrel because that's where they lay and regurgitate all their stories and lies.

The first time she showed him the acreage was on August 23. She later admitted to Norm, her manager, that she had been a bit concerned about being out there alone with him, and had let him walk in alone. He was always well-dressed in a business suit, very talkative, friendly, joked and laughed a lot, and made fun of the Edmonton football club. He could talk at length on almost any subject. ( Valley of Shadows by Jake Plett, page 17)

I'd say Mary Ann Plett's killer is a psychopath.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath

Psychopaths, on the other hand, are unable to form emotional attachments or feel real empathy with others, although they often have disarming or even charming personalities. Psychopaths are very manipulative and can easily gain people’s trust. They learn to mimic emotions, despite their inability to actually feel them, and will appear normal to unsuspecting people. Psychopaths are often well educated and hold steady jobs. Some are so good at manipulation and mimicry that they have families and other long-term relationships without those around them ever suspecting their true nature.

When committing crimes, psychopaths carefully plan out every detail in advance and often have contingency plans in place. Unlike their sociopathic counterparts, psychopathic criminals are cool, calm, and meticulous. Their crimes, whether violent or non-violent, will be highly organized and generally offer few clues for authorities to pursue. Intelligent psychopaths make excellent white-collar criminals and "con artists" due to their calm and charismatic natures.
_________________________________________________________________________________

The killer also made fun of the Edmonton football club. How could he be that familiar with their team to be able to make fun of them unless he lived in the area for a while? What was the status of the team in September 1971? Were they winning or losing? To whom? Could this also be a clue as to where the killer was from and he was talking up his hometown team? As fans, we all have a tendency to degrade our home team's opponents. Why discuss football with a woman at all? Was she even a fan?

Her manager [at her previous employer] suggested she apply with Graham Realty and Insurance Ltd., who had an office on 97th St...She made an application there and was turned down flat. They simply did not hire female sales staff.

Everything was in limbo for about a week before IC, Graham's sales manager at that time called her back for an interview. They had had a change of mind. Valley of Shadows, by Jake Plett, page 14

They suddenly had a change of mind in hiring female realtors and their first female realtor is killed.

 

[Clouddippingdown]

The killer also made fun of the Edmonton football club. How could he be that familiar with their team to be able to make fun of them unless he lived in the area for a while? What was the status of the team in September 1971? Were they winning or losing? To whom? Could this also be a clue as to where the killer was from and he was talking up his hometown team? As fans, we all have a tendency to degrade our home team's opponents. Why discuss football with a woman at all? Was she even a fan?

He would have made fun of the Edmonton football club to make it seem more real that he was from out of town. It's part of the game to cast a negative position in order to reinforce a position that may be considered as being doubtful. He was playing the big league and his talk would be big league too. Everything is the opposite when you play high stakes that incorporate the theft of a life in the way in which they do. His whole story had a fantasy air to it wound around a fictitious position with a fictitious company based out of the U.S. yet being from another city and what better way to make it all believable then to throw insult at the local football club. If it had been in the winter he would have used the Edmonton hockey club. His story was too wound up from the start which tells you that it wasn't his first trip around the block. Imo, when he lured Mary Ann he was already proficient at over kill, it shows through in his story.

The "very talkative, friendly, joked and laughed a lot," is a diversion tactic that is used to keep the intended victim from having time to think and work through their own thoughts to have second thoughts. This same tactic is referred to by Amber Tuccaro's mother in the CBC interview when she say's in reference to the cell phone recording of which she had listened to the full 17 minutes, that Amber could be heard laughing in the beginning of the recording. Although used in a different situation with the same projected results. How do you get someone to laugh and be relaxed? You be talkative, friendly and joking because you don't want the victim flipping the switch on a busy road and you want the victim relaxed at the point of impact. A relaxed victim is much easier to subdue than a tense, uptight victim that is ready for a physical confrontation. Imo, you can bet that Mr. Cooper kept on joking and laughing right up to the point of impact.

 

[dotr]

Fwiw
https://stats.cfldb.ca/team/edmonton-eskimos/1971/
"The Edmonton Eskimos&#8217; 1971 Season"

"6 45
Wed. Sept. 1
11:00 PM
TOR 16 @ EDM 15 L 22,261 CTV
7 47
Mon. Sept. 6
EDM 7 @ CGY 23 L 23,616
8 52
Sat. Sept. 11
9:00 PM
EDM 14 @ WPG 26 L 22,553 CBC
9 56
Sat. Sept. 18
11:00 PM
SSK 19 @ EDM 3 L 22,474 CBC
10 64
Sun. Sept. 26
4:00 PM
EDM 14 @ SSK 28 L 19,018 CTV
11 65
Wed. Sept. 29
11:00 PM
MTL 11 @ EDM 12 W 13,346 CTV"
rbbm.

 

[Clouddippingdown]

Well, well, well would you look at that... September 18 Saskatchewan was at Edmonton, just 3 days after Mary Ann's abduction. With Edmonton being in Winnipeg on the 11th and losing. Isn't that cozy. Fwiw is a lot for it shows how he was able to throw the interest of a national sport through the manipulation of conversation into the loop to make his position seem more real.

 

[dotr]

Iirc, without reading through the thread again, someone asked about the specific area where Mary's clothing was found.( Please disregard if question was not posed or if it was, but was already answered.)

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2012/12/...-cold-case-preventing-closure-in-1997-slaying

" MaryAnn Plett, 29. She vanished Sept. 15, 1971. In April of 1972, over 100 km northwest of Edmonton, two employees of the Pinto Creek Sawmill found the tattered remains of women's clothing scattered along Goose Lake Road."
rbbm

 

[dotr]

Well, well, well would you look at that... September 18 Saskatchewan was at Edmonton, just 3 days after Mary Ann's abduction. With Edmonton being in Winnipeg on the 11th and losing. Isn't that cozy. Fwiw is a lot for it shows how he was able to throw the interest of a national sport through the manipulation of conversation into the loop to make his position seem more real.

That is what i was thinking , it could also be an excuse to travel places for the game, or to explain absences, imo.