CANADA Canada - Nicole Morin, 8, Toronto, 30 July 1985

[Bobbi Pearl]

I do not think this was a family member nor was the mother concluded to be irresponsible, nothing untoward for that time in Toronto for the mid 80's. The child was at the age of learning independence, the mother was learning to loosen the strings and allow her to do so. (An easier age to grab IMO). She was not to leave the building, a building with security, no one thought she would be grabbed between floors (suspected to be a possibility she never made it to the front lobby) on her way to the pool. I think people are reaching for new leads and using reporting from media from the mid 80's to determine what we think of someone. Obits that leave out a name is such a stretch to run someone through the mud because we do not know of any other suspect feels somewhat unfair to me.

7 or 8 years ago I took Private Investigator Training in Toronto Ontario, our instructor was a past undercover officer for TPS. He used this case as an example of a type of investigation he was involved in as an undercover officer.

My recall is not as fresh and detailed as it was when I posted on another site shortly after finishing that training. But at a high level, the details he shared were that LE had a suspect, this suspect worked in graphic printing type of business and had his own company in the Oshawa area? and had a cottage or property north of Toronto, not sure if it was Orillia way or Kawartha way. He knew someone in the building and knew alternate entrances other than the front lobby to access the building.

I do not recall how they came to him as a suspect but TPS knew he was in the vicinity and could have taken her, they sent this officer in undercover, the officer pretended to be an apprentice or junior to work for him and learn the craft from the suspect.

He befriended the suspect for weeks/months, When this officer was not with him he was tailed and followed everywhere he went. The officer and suspect often discussed the daily news and reports of Nicole's disappearance but the officer could not garner any information that would help to find her remains or if she was being held in captivity. Budgets to continue the operation was running dry and they got so desperate that they made up a situation to try one last try to get him to confess or slip up. They used high-end movie makeup, made it appear that the officer had been beaten up, the officer went in one morning and said to the suspect something like - ""what the hell are you involved with, last night some cops pulled me over and took me downtown and questioned me for hours and beat the snot out of me, they said you had something to do with that girl that is missing and they think that I am your co-conspirator. ""

The suspect's reply sent shivers down the undercover's spine, he did not find the accusation appalling as any innocent person would, he said ""don't worry they won't ever find her body, no body no proof. ""(or something to those words) . The officer was not sure if the suspect knew he was LE by this time, he quit, left and they stopped the investigation after this and could never find the info they needed to arrest him.

Until they find remains and those remains possibly have suspect DNA or other proof attached to them, we as the general public may never see an update as we did in the Christine Jessop case.

Bobbi Pearl

 

[Deleted member 275109]

I find the ending to that story odd. I’m surprised someone didn’t beat the information out of him, that they simply said ok, the budget is used up, we are out of time and money, so let’s move along to the next case.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I do not think this was a family member nor was the mother concluded to be irresponsible, nothing untoward for that time in Toronto for the mid 80's. The child was at the age of learning independence, the mother was learning to loosen the strings and allow her to do so. (An easier age to grab IMO). She was not to leave the building, a building with security, no one thought she would be grabbed between floors (suspected to be a possibility she never made it to the front lobby) on her way to the pool. I think people are reaching for new leads and using reporting from media from the mid 80's to determine what we think of someone. Obits that leave out a name is such a stretch to run someone through the mud because we do not know of any other suspect feels somewhat unfair to me.

7 or 8 years ago I took Private Investigator Training in Toronto Ontario, our instructor was a past undercover officer for TPS. He used this case as an example of a type of investigation he was involved in as an undercover officer.

My recall is not as fresh and detailed as it was when I posted on another site shortly after finishing that training. But at a high level, the details he shared were that LE had a suspect, this suspect worked in graphic printing type of business and had his own company in the Oshawa area? and had a cottage or property north of Toronto, not sure if it was Orillia way or Kawartha way. He knew someone in the building and knew alternate entrances other than the front lobby to access the building.

I do not recall how they came to him as a suspect but TPS knew he was in the vicinity and could have taken her, they sent this officer in undercover, the officer pretended to be an apprentice or junior to work for him and learn the craft from the suspect.

He befriended the suspect for weeks/months, When this officer was not with him he was tailed and followed everywhere he went. The officer and suspect often discussed the daily news and reports of Nicole's disappearance but the officer could not garner any information that would help to find her remains or if she was being held in captivity. Budgets to continue the operation was running dry and they got so desperate that they made up a situation to try one last try to get him to confess or slip up. They used high-end movie makeup, made it appear that the officer had been beaten up, the officer went in one morning and said to the suspect something like - ""what the hell are you involved with, last night some cops pulled me over and took me downtown and questioned me for hours and beat the snot out of me, they said you had something to do with that girl that is missing and they think that I am your co-conspirator. ""

The suspect's reply sent shivers down the undercover's spine, he did not find the accusation appalling as any innocent person would, he said ""don't worry they won't ever find her body, no body no proof. ""(or something to those words) . The officer was not sure if the suspect knew he was LE by this time, he quit, left and they stopped the investigation after this and could never find the info they needed to arrest him.

Until they find remains and those remains possibly have suspect DNA or other proof attached to them, we as the general public may never see an update as we did in the Christine Jessop case.

Bobbi Pearl

I find the ending to that story odd. I’m surprised someone didn’t beat the information out of him, that they simply said ok, the budget is used up, we are out of time and money, so let’s move along to the next case.

Hi Coralina

Yes, sadly they could not continue with the undercover work, that did not mean that the homicide team stopped investigating, just the undercover operation ended. This operation went on for months close to a year of tailing and working in his business. They must have some pretty solid evidence that this was the guy to get approvals to work this operation for so long.

The officer did wish he could beat the crap out of him, but they wanted to find Nicole and trap the culprit, losing their cool and harming any suspects would not benefit the investigation.

 

[Deleted member 275109]

I wonder how it all ended. Is the suspect still alive? Possibly reading this? Maybe they excluded him as they’ve followed other leads and dug up fields up north where there were other leads. I wonder if they would have done that if they thought this was their guy. Would this particular person strike again? If the chance existed, I hope they would have continued watching. Maybe the person is deceased and there is no longer a threat. But what other horrors are they responsible for?

 

[Crimestopper88888]

Bobby Jack Fowler - Wikipedia just throwing his name out their it seems unlikely but you never know.

 

[dotr]

Above: Composite of what Nicole looked like on July 30, 1985

Above: Nicole Morin, 8
July 30 2021
Toronto Police Service :: News Release #50536
''case #: 1985-3154958
It has been 36 years since the disappearance of then eight-year-old Nicole Morin from her Etobicoke residence, and the Toronto Police Service is continuing to appeal for information from the public.

On Tuesday, July 30, 1985, at approximately 11 a.m., it is reported that Nicole left her apartment located on the top floor of 627 The West Mall Etobicoke, and was never seen again. She was just eight years old at the time and would be 44 years old today.

At the time, Nicole was described as white, 4'0", 55 lbs., with straight shoulder-length brown hair, brown eyes, and had a birth mark on her right upper forehead. In 2019, an updated artist’s rendition was released by Toronto Police to show what she could look like today in the hope someone recognized her.

Since that day, community members near and far, have reported numerous tips, yet police have been unable to bring this investigation to a conclusion and it is still unknown what exactly happened.

Today, we ask the community to help us try and answer the question as to what happened to Nicole, and provide closure for her family and friends who continue to miss her.

For more information on this investigation, please visit Canada's Missing website.

Anyone with information is asked to contact police at 416-808-2205, email at FindNicole@TorontoPolice.on.ca, or contact the Toronto Police Service - Missing Person’s Unit at 416-808-7411. For more information about the Missing Person Unit.''

 

[dotr]

Canada's Missing | Case details
''Case reference: 1986087920
On July 30, 1985, Nicole Morin was seen for the last time leaving her apartment in Toronto, Ontario. Nicole had made arrangements to meet her friend in the lobby of their building so they could go swimming in the pool located at the rear of the building. Nicole never appeared in the lobby. Despite an intense search at the time, Nicole has not been found.''
Missing since
July 30, 1985
Year of birth
1977
Age at disappearance
8
Gender
Female
Bio group
White
Eye colour
Brown
Hair
Brown, Long
Teeth
Gap between her front teeth
Height
121cm / 4 ft 0 in
Weight
28kg / 62lb
Complexion
Light/Fair
MORIN, Nicole Louise

• 
  Photo age-progressed to 31 years.
• 
  Age enhanced portrait

Deformity
Ears, Slightly protruding
Pierce Ears
Forehead, Small birthmark on upper right side of forehead

 

[dotr]

 

[dotr]

Huge stretch, but this caught my attention because of the age of one of this perp's victims, - 8, the assaults were committed in the 80's, he grabbed some girls in apartment buildings, he is French like the Morins, and their building was near the airport.
Unlikely perhaps, but any chance this now deceased perp traveled to Ontario?
Complete speculation, imo.
Oct 1 2021 rbbm.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/france-cold-case-police-officer-murders-1.6196383

''One of France's biggest unsolved criminal cases appears to have been cracked — and the decades-long hunt for a suspect in at least six rapes and four killings during the 1980s and 1990s led to a former police officer.

Prosecutors announced late Thursday that DNA from a 59-year-old retired officer corresponded to genetic traces found at the scene of multiple crimes in the 1980s and 1990s.

The horrors began with the rape of an eight-year-old girl in 1986 and continued with other rapes, a kidnapping and slayings, mostly of underage girls.''

''The eight-year-old girl, who is the first known victim, was approached in the elevator of her building on April 8, 1986, by a man who identified himself as a police officer, then took her to the basement and raped and strangled her. The girl, Sarah, lost consciousness, but did not die.

A month later, an 11-year-old girl named Cecile was raped and killed in the basement of her Paris apartment building.''

 

[photographer4]

I do not think this was a family member nor was the mother concluded to be irresponsible, nothing untoward for that time in Toronto for the mid 80's. The child was at the age of learning independence, the mother was learning to loosen the strings and allow her to do so. (An easier age to grab IMO). She was not to leave the building, a building with security, no one thought she would be grabbed between floors (suspected to be a possibility she never made it to the front lobby) on her way to the pool. I think people are reaching for new leads and using reporting from media from the mid 80's to determine what we think of someone. Obits that leave out a name is such a stretch to run someone through the mud because we do not know of any other suspect feels somewhat unfair to me.

7 or 8 years ago I took Private Investigator Training in Toronto Ontario, our instructor was a past undercover officer for TPS. He used this case as an example of a type of investigation he was involved in as an undercover officer.

My recall is not as fresh and detailed as it was when I posted on another site shortly after finishing that training. But at a high level, the details he shared were that LE had a suspect, this suspect worked in graphic printing type of business and had his own company in the Oshawa area? and had a cottage or property north of Toronto, not sure if it was Orillia way or Kawartha way. He knew someone in the building and knew alternate entrances other than the front lobby to access the building.

I do not recall how they came to him as a suspect but TPS knew he was in the vicinity and could have taken her, they sent this officer in undercover, the officer pretended to be an apprentice or junior to work for him and learn the craft from the suspect.

He befriended the suspect for weeks/months, When this officer was not with him he was tailed and followed everywhere he went. The officer and suspect often discussed the daily news and reports of Nicole's disappearance but the officer could not garner any information that would help to find her remains or if she was being held in captivity. Budgets to continue the operation was running dry and they got so desperate that they made up a situation to try one last try to get him to confess or slip up. They used high-end movie makeup, made it appear that the officer had been beaten up, the officer went in one morning and said to the suspect something like - ""what the hell are you involved with, last night some cops pulled me over and took me downtown and questioned me for hours and beat the snot out of me, they said you had something to do with that girl that is missing and they think that I am your co-conspirator. ""

The suspect's reply sent shivers down the undercover's spine, he did not find the accusation appalling as any innocent person would, he said ""don't worry they won't ever find her body, no body no proof. ""(or something to those words) . The officer was not sure if the suspect knew he was LE by this time, he quit, left and they stopped the investigation after this and could never find the info they needed to arrest him.

Until they find remains and those remains possibly have suspect DNA or other proof attached to them, we as the general public may never see an update as we did in the Christine Jessop case.

Bobbi Pearl


Hi Coralina

Yes, sadly they could not continue with the undercover work, that did not mean that the homicide team stopped investigating, just the undercover operation ended. This operation went on for months close to a year of tailing and working in his business. They must have some pretty solid evidence that this was the guy to get approvals to work this operation for so long.

The officer did wish he could beat the crap out of him, but they wanted to find Nicole and trap the culprit, losing their cool and harming any suspects would not benefit the investigation.

Interesting story indeed! I'd like to know if they ever managed to get DNA from their suspect? A coffee cup? ANything? It would be interesting if they thought of that and if they happened to have it, if they could run it against other cases.

 

[photographer4]

I do not think this was a family member nor was the mother concluded to be irresponsible, nothing untoward for that time in Toronto for the mid 80's. The child was at the age of learning independence, the mother was learning to loosen the strings and allow her to do so. (An easier age to grab IMO). She was not to leave the building, a building with security, no one thought she would be grabbed between floors (suspected to be a possibility she never made it to the front lobby) on her way to the pool. I think people are reaching for new leads and using reporting from media from the mid 80's to determine what we think of someone. Obits that leave out a name is such a stretch to run someone through the mud because we do not know of any other suspect feels somewhat unfair to me.

7 or 8 years ago I took Private Investigator Training in Toronto Ontario, our instructor was a past undercover officer for TPS. He used this case as an example of a type of investigation he was involved in as an undercover officer.

My recall is not as fresh and detailed as it was when I posted on another site shortly after finishing that training. But at a high level, the details he shared were that LE had a suspect, this suspect worked in graphic printing type of business and had his own company in the Oshawa area? and had a cottage or property north of Toronto, not sure if it was Orillia way or Kawartha way. He knew someone in the building and knew alternate entrances other than the front lobby to access the building.

I do not recall how they came to him as a suspect but TPS knew he was in the vicinity and could have taken her, they sent this officer in undercover, the officer pretended to be an apprentice or junior to work for him and learn the craft from the suspect.

He befriended the suspect for weeks/months, When this officer was not with him he was tailed and followed everywhere he went. The officer and suspect often discussed the daily news and reports of Nicole's disappearance but the officer could not garner any information that would help to find her remains or if she was being held in captivity. Budgets to continue the operation was running dry and they got so desperate that they made up a situation to try one last try to get him to confess or slip up. They used high-end movie makeup, made it appear that the officer had been beaten up, the officer went in one morning and said to the suspect something like - ""what the hell are you involved with, last night some cops pulled me over and took me downtown and questioned me for hours and beat the snot out of me, they said you had something to do with that girl that is missing and they think that I am your co-conspirator. ""

The suspect's reply sent shivers down the undercover's spine, he did not find the accusation appalling as any innocent person would, he said ""don't worry they won't ever find her body, no body no proof. ""(or something to those words) . The officer was not sure if the suspect knew he was LE by this time, he quit, left and they stopped the investigation after this and could never find the info they needed to arrest him.

Until they find remains and those remains possibly have suspect DNA or other proof attached to them, we as the general public may never see an update as we did in the Christine Jessop case.

Bobbi Pearl


Hi Coralina

Yes, sadly they could not continue with the undercover work, that did not mean that the homicide team stopped investigating, just the undercover operation ended. This operation went on for months close to a year of tailing and working in his business. They must have some pretty solid evidence that this was the guy to get approvals to work this operation for so long.

The officer did wish he could beat the crap out of him, but they wanted to find Nicole and trap the culprit, losing their cool and harming any suspects would not benefit the investigation.

If police knew the suspect worked in graphic / printing and knew someone in the building, did they ever interview the person the suspect knew or anyone else associated with him? What made police suspect him? How did they know he was in the area that day?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

If police knew the suspect worked in graphic / printing and knew someone in the building, did they ever interview the person the suspect knew or anyone else associated with him? What made police suspect him? How did they know he was in the area that day?

I would think the answer is a "yes" that all your questions were asked and investigated, he became a suspect based on some intel they had at the time. I recall reports of door to door, floor by floor detectives were speaking to everyone in the 2 towers of this complex.

But those specifics were not shared with us during our teachings. The case was used as an example for undercover investigative work so the content is specific to that area of discussion only, unfortunately. Our instructor was a retired undercover Toronto officer, who worked the undercover piece on this case personally, he shared that as a team (LE & Prosecutors) they felt this man was 100% the culprit and that as lawfully as possible he would always be watched by law enforcement. Police funding and spending are hard to get approved especially for long-term undercover work so they must have had a lot of circumstantial evidence to have this target approved for surveillance. Until someone comes clean, releases the guilt from their soles or they find her remains and have some forensic evidence to investigate they have nothing in this case. They cannot even be sure where she was taken from, and where was she taken to. That is why undercover was the last option to see if they could find out where she was/is.

So sadly we have little to offer to find Nicole.

Maybe a relative of this "graphics" guy will read some of this and say hey that was/is my brother/father/uncle/cousin/son...... and tell someone, it is a horrible secret to keep and burden so I really hope the guilt hurts and tears them apart as long as they are holding on to it.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Interesting story indeed! I'd like to know if they ever managed to get DNA from their suspect? A coffee cup? ANything? It would be interesting if they thought of that and if they happened to have it, if they could run it against other cases.

Yes, I believe they did collect personal marker things like fingerprints, hair, and cigarette buts as well, not specifically DNA as it was not yet developed but to date, they have nothing to compare any of it to.

That is the entire issue with this case, no witnesses saw anything (that they reported) and no person/remains can be found. The suspect knew this and was proud of the fact that LE could do nothing with any of these personal markers they may have of his, not unless they find her.

The undercover team wanted to be sure that she was not still alive and being kept by him, they never caught him going to her and assumed she was no longer with us.

 

[Georgia8]

I knew about this but not in this detail it all sounds plausible. One thing though: her friend the police officer Ukrainian last name kept investigating if they were really sure I doubt they would continue. In the very old case of Marianne Schuett or the teenager who was attacked at a subway station they have suspects that are almost certainly the perpetrator though they can't lay charges. This does still seem different than that.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Yes, I believe they did collect personal marker things like fingerprints, hair, and cigarette buts as well, not specifically DNA as it was not yet developed but to date, they have nothing to compare any of it to.

That is the entire issue with this case, no witnesses saw anything (that they reported) and no person/remains can be found. The suspect knew this and was proud of the fact that LE could do nothing with any of these personal markers they may have of his, not unless they find her.

The undercover team wanted to be sure that she was not still alive and being kept by him, they never caught him going to her and assumed she was no longer with us.

adding to this response; RE checking databases with suspect DNA exhibits. I do not think that would be legal in Canada anyway. Only if you are arrested and found guilty of a crime is DNA added to a database, they have high criteria to meet before it gets to the database.

 

[photographer4]

So I opted to check if there was any new information about Nicole anywhere online, and I came across this:
Nicole Louise Morin (1977-1985) - Find a Grave...

I had never seen this before and I believe it was created in October 2021. I can see that two persons have left digital flowers in her memory at the website. I don't know how common this is, to find a find a grave site for someone who hasn't been confirmed deceased, or who posted the information.

On further investigation it appears that the individual who posted the information is willing to transfer the ownership of the memorial to a parent / close family member if the memorial is in regards to a child. Scanning their other uploads, it appears they may have some special interest in missing / abducted children. Its a terrific site often used in completing family tree projects so well worth taking a look!

 

[PezCandy]

So I opted to check if there was any new information about Nicole anywhere online, and I came across this:
Nicole Louise Morin (1977-1985) - Find a Grave...

I had never seen this before and I believe it was created in October 2021. I can see that two persons have left digital flowers in her memory at the website. I don't know how common this is, to find a find a grave site for someone who hasn't been confirmed deceased, or who posted the information.

On further investigation it appears that the individual who posted the information is willing to transfer the ownership of the memorial to a parent / close family member if the memorial is in regards to a child. Scanning their other uploads, it appears they may have some special interest in missing / abducted children. Its a terrific site often used in completing family tree projects so well worth taking a look!

I came across possible explanations looking at the creator of the memorial page.

strange thing is, idk how common it is either but I’ve seen it happen a couple times to people who were still alive, that would be creepy.

 

[cherrymeg]

I just heard about this case. You would think an apt complex with elevators would be pretty secure or at least that no one living in the building would kidnap her. I live in an apt complex. There is a guy that was exposing himself last summer to people swimming. One man that does maintenance is creepy and makes comments to me anytime I’m alone. I’m an adult. If someone working in the building was pedophile they would probably gain trust or groom a child. If people delivered food to her door or even to the building they could be familiar with it enough to seem like a tenant that kid would trust. People sublet or have a relative stay with them. Even without keys people could make them selves familiar with a building. Do they know she didn’t get off the elevator? It’s easy to feel safe when you have friends in an apt building and your kid does and they are going to a pool at the complex.
I hope Nicole’s case is solved.

 

[Richard]

Nicole Morin, age 8
Missing since 30 July 1985

 

[photographer4]

According to this article, a couple walking their dog found a green headband marching the one Nicole was wearing when she vanished. It was found in Bradford bait 50km North of Toronto. Jeannette said it was the same size and color as her daughter’s. I wonder if it was ever forensically tested for dna belonging to Nicole or whoever took her? If police still have if perhaps it could be done now?

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(Aug 6, 1985 p.2)