GUILTY Canada - Noelle Paquette, 27, Sarnia, Ont, 31 Dec 2012 - #3

[Tonto]

You get mug shots done when you are arrested in Canada.

Are they public like in the US? If so, seems like they would've been published by now.

 

[JayFriend]

Phew! After two days I've finally got to the live end of these threads.

Some observations:

I've followed several threads on WS over the last 2 or 3 years, most closely the Victoria Stafford case because I live just outside of Woodstock. Comparing that case to this one, I see two big differences. This thread has an enormous number of new users who have just joined. Also, a large number of the new users say they are local to Sarnia and know the area, even the people involved. Sarnia is about twice the size of Woodstock, but the number of "locals" posting here is far, far greater than the number I thought were posting on the Stafford thread. It looks like there are a lot of people in Sarnia that know a lot about the victim and the perps and others connected to the case and "what happened". It seems that Woodstock is such a small town that people were afraid of saying anything on a forum for fear of identifying themselves, whereas Sarnia is a "bigger" small town where people don't worry about such stuff.

What surprises me at this early stage are the number of details that have leaked out without being reported by MSM or announced by LE. Not coming from those two sources, I suppose they have to be treated as rumours, or else anyone posting them here has to say it's their opinion, rather than from a reliable source. Okay, we all know that nobody can keep a secret. Members of LE are no exception and likely tell stuff to their close friends and we know how that goes. The perps were also treated in a hospital, so there's more information that hospital staff would know. If you want to know stuff, just ask a friend that works in a hospital. Oh, and let's not forget cab drivers!

One more thing. It would be too hard for me to find it now, but I recall someone here saying (opining?) that NP had a sibling in or connected to LE. (Mods, you can censor this if it's off limits, and if not, anyone else please jump in and confirm or deny. ) Could that be the reason a search and investigation was started so soon after the disappearance was reported? Not that there's anything wrong with that when a life could have been saved. We saw how the Victoria Stafford case changed the criteria for Amber Alerts.

 

[appleeye]

JMO, but because NP's body was located on Mandaumin...which runs into BG where NP's parents live, could it be that she did in fact accept a ride from them in Sarnia and maybe MM and TB said they would give her ride out there? It was mentioned more than once that NP called her parents to ask for a ride, and because they had been drinking themselves (being new years eve and all) they could not pick her up so she had to make alternate arrangements. I know NP lived in Courtright, but her parents house in BG would be closer to get a ride to for the night. All of this JMO, but with body being found out that way, they may have tried to make it appear to her that they were giving her a ride there but had planned to stop out in the middle of nowhere and do whatever it is they did. I know the Sarnia, Petrolia, and BG are very well, it is very isolated out there and strangely on the way to the town her parents live. MOO.

From where she was... she would have been closer to Courtright. IMO.

The area on Mandaumin was quite far out away from the lake.
.

 

[Hamtowner]

Why would TB post that about 'giving directions' on the NIM FB page? If the LE are combing through posts, wouldn't that make her a person of interest or make her look more suspicious? I could see her lurking in the pages but posting? that is just stupid...

I think maybe sometimes the perps like to show themselves in this way as a small thrill of being in the know but not discovered. I have seen other cases where perps have done similar things.

I agree, really really stupid. But she may have thought it would help her 'blend in' with those who actually were concerned about seeing to NP's safe return. Another angle on that tho, her comment about asking for directions, maybe it was meant as an inside joke, between herself and MM. Only they would 'get' it, seeing as they were the only ones who knew the truth.

All MOO of course!

I could definitely see this too.

That is what I was thinking. I bet that MM and TB were the ones that stopped and 'asked for directions.' And once NP stepped closer to the van, she may have recognized TB as being a local and felt comfortable accepting a ride.

that is a good point too. Or just the first part about them asking for directions to get her near the vehicle. IF the ( rumor) business about her being taken at a bank machine are inaccurate that is.

JMO, but because NP's body was located on Mandaumin...which runs into BG where NP's parents live, could it be that she did in fact accept a ride from them in Sarnia and maybe MM and TB said they would give her ride out there? It was mentioned more than once that NP called her parents to ask for a ride, and because they had been drinking themselves (being new years eve and all) they could not pick her up so she had to make alternate arrangements. I know NP lived in Courtright, but her parents house in BG would be closer to get a ride to for the night. All of this JMO, but with body being found out that way, they may have tried to make it appear to her that they were giving her a ride there but had planned to stop out in the middle of nowhere and do whatever it is they did. I know the Sarnia, Petrolia, and BG are very well, it is very isolated out there and strangely on the way to the town her parents live. MOO.

this is the thought I had too but if you do look at the maps posted here, it would have been an odd route to take to her parents from DT to BG, I think it was closer to Petrolia if I'm correct? I would have to go back and see the map again but that is what I did notice after I posted this thought myself a few pages back.

 

[Wondergirl]

WARNING: This link has adult content.

Googling Lana_Caine and wanted to throw this out there, since there is such bizarre stuff with this case, it could be relevant, but, more than likely not.

People were trying to correlate the accused's FL usernames to each other through that tv show.

TB's name could come from the word "Lanacaine". Apparently, it is often used for sexual numbing purposes.

Pretty OT, but, still.

Again, call me old fashioned, but, WTH are those plastic things anyway???

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c.../+lana_caine+fetlife&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

 

[Canadagurl]

There was a man from the Sarnia area that was accused of killing his wife(CS) he was charged with murder 1, received bail :

http://www.theobserver.ca/2012/05/23/murder-trial-craig-shorts-fate-in-jurors-hands
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/05/26/hung-jury-in-murder-trial

I hope that TB and MM are not able to get bail, as I have read it is not common with a murder 1 charge, is this correct?

That is the case I've been trying to think of all night, was right on the tip of my tongue and driving me bonkers. Figured the case was an easy one....all evidence pointed to him. Murder 1...he got bail...then a hung jury. Never heard anymore after that. He hired an out of town lawyer.

 

[flipflop]

Have you people no mercy?
This is an incredibly painful time for the family and friends of NP as well as TB and MM.
Her parents, her kids, and his parents have nothing to do with this and they should be left out of the discussion.
Try to put yourself in their situation and just try to imagine how it would feel to lose a child to such a senseless act, or to know that your child could do such a horrible evil thing to someone elses... or in the case of TBs kids to live in a community where your mother has shown herself to be a monster, they will now have to grow up in the shadow of what their mother has allegedly done... no child deserves that burden
This is a trying time for many people and the FAMILIES including parents, children, brothers, sisters, boyfriends, etc NEED to be left out of this. Someone they knew and loved did something horrible or something horrible was done to someone they love and now they are just along for the ride... do your small part to make this easier for anyone who is closely associated with NP or the accused and STOP IT with the rumor mongering.

I have read this whole thread and I appreciate comments about confirmed points in the timeline, but these rumors are just becoming terrible. These are peoples lives you are gossiping about.
Sorry for such a negative way to post my first comment but I really just feel for all of these people and the rumors are getting out of hand... the mods have repeatedly posted that there is no reason to discuss innocent uninvolved people. Start listening and respecting.

Welcome to WS.

Anyone that asks a question on family members or friends are kindly reminded that they are innocent and we do not discuss. Just as the question that you quoted your first post on....we did not answer it, but simply reminded the poster that we do not discuss family/friends of anyone involved in this case.

 

[sarnian71]

WARNING: This link has adult content.

Googling Lana_Caine and wanted to throw this out there, since there is such bizarre stuff with this case, it could be relevant, but, more than likely not.

People were trying to correlate the accused's FL usernames to each other through that tv show.

TB's name could come from the word "Lanacaine". Apparently, it is often used for sexual numbing purposes.

Pretty OT, but, still.

Again, call me old fashioned, but, WTH are those plastic things anyway???

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c.../+lana_caine+fetlife&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

all i can say is omg ewwwwww

 

[appleeye]

Phew! After two days I've finally got to the live end of these threads.

Some observations:

I've followed several threads on WS over the last 2 or 3 years, most closely the Victoria Stafford case because I live just outside of Woodstock. Comparing that case to this one, I see two big differences. This thread has an enormous number of new users who have just joined. Also, a large number of the new users say they are local to Sarnia and know the area, even the people involved. Sarnia is about twice the size of Woodstock, but the number of "locals" posting here is far, far greater than the number I thought were posting on the Stafford thread. It looks like there are a lot of people in Sarnia that know a lot about the victim and the perps and others connected to the case and "what happened". It seems that Woodstock is such a small town that people were afraid of saying anything on a forum for fear of identifying themselves, whereas Sarnia is a "bigger" small town where people don't worry about such stuff.

What surprises me at this early stage are the number of details that have leaked out without being reported by MSM or announced by LE. Not coming from those two sources, I suppose they have to be treated as rumours, or else anyone posting them here has to say it's their opinion, rather than from a reliable source. Okay, we all know that nobody can keep a secret. Members of LE are no exception and likely tell stuff to their close friends and we know how that goes. The perps were also treated in a hospital, so there's more information that hospital staff would know. If you want to know stuff, just ask a friend that works in a hospital. Oh, and let's not forget cab drivers!

One more thing. It would be too hard for me to find it now, but I recall someone here saying (opining?) that NP had a sibling in or connected to LE. (Mods, you can censor this if it's off limits, and if not, anyone else please jump in and confirm or deny. ) Could that be the reason a search and investigation was started so soon after the disappearance was reported? Not that there's anything wrong with that when a life could have been saved. We saw how the Victoria Stafford case changed the criteria for Amber Alerts.

Sibling is LE, Father is a retired CBSA guard. Fact.

 

[southern_comfort]

WARNING: This link has adult content.

Googling Lana_Caine and wanted to throw this out there, since there is such bizarre stuff with this case, it could be relevant, but, more than likely not.

People were trying to correlate the accused's FL usernames to each other through that tv show.

TB's name could come from the word "Lanacaine". Apparently, it is often used for sexual numbing purposes.

Pretty OT, but, still.

Again, call me old fashioned, but, WTH are those plastic things anyway???

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c.../+lana_caine+fetlife&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

BBM... Not sure this is what you mean, but it looks like the guys are wearing male chastity belts.

ETA: I think you are right and it was a play on words, though she must have meant the character as well as Lanacaine. The character's name is spelled "Kane", not "Caine".

 

[CdnCat]

I would be shocked to find Downtown Sarnia THAT busy on any night except for First Friday (which is a local event each month).

Our downtown core is not the city centre. There are very few bars there. If one was looking for a drunk roaming person, they would be far better off looking at the Lazy Duck IMO.

People don't walk in Sarnia. The majority drive and occasionally take the bus. It's just not that kind of city.

You would be amazed at the people who walk home drunk from the bars. Although not as many as the summer, there are quite a few walking around between 1 and 3 am. Especially from the Lazy duck

 

[sarnian71]

That is the case I've been trying to think of all night, was right on the tip of my tongue and driving me bonkers. Figured the case was an easy one....all evidence pointed to him. Murder 1...he got bail...then a hung jury. Never heard anymore after that. He hired an out of town lawyer.

Barbara Short — The 48-year-old Mooretown resident was found dead in her St. Clair Parkway home Oct. 19, 2008. Her husband, Craig Short, is charged with first-degree murder and his second murder trial is set to begin Jan. 21. A first trial in May ended in a hung jury.


http://www.theobserver.ca/2013/01/04/sarnia-police-murder-investigations-continue

 

[Hamtowner]

Phew! After two days I've finally got to the live end of these threads.

Some observations:

I've followed several threads on WS over the last 2 or 3 years, most closely the Victoria Stafford case because I live just outside of Woodstock. Comparing that case to this one, I see two big differences. This thread has an enormous number of new users who have just joined. Also, a large number of the new users say they are local to Sarnia and know the area, even the people involved. Sarnia is about twice the size of Woodstock, but the number of "locals" posting here is far, far greater than the number I thought were posting on the Stafford thread. It looks like there are a lot of people in Sarnia that know a lot about the victim and the perps and others connected to the case and "what happened". It seems that Woodstock is such a small town that people were afraid of saying anything on a forum for fear of identifying themselves, whereas Sarnia is a "bigger" small town where people don't worry about such stuff.

What surprises me at this early stage are the number of details that have leaked out without being reported by MSM or announced by LE. Not coming from those two sources, I suppose they have to be treated as rumours, or else anyone posting them here has to say it's their opinion, rather than from a reliable source. Okay, we all know that nobody can keep a secret. Members of LE are no exception and likely tell stuff to their close friends and we know how that goes. The perps were also treated in a hospital, so there's more information that hospital staff would know. If you want to know stuff, just ask a friend that works in a hospital. Oh, and let's not forget cab drivers!

One more thing. It would be too hard for me to find it now, but I recall someone here saying (opining?) that NP had a sibling in or connected to LE. (Mods, you can censor this if it's off limits, and if not, anyone else please jump in and confirm or deny. ) Could that be the reason a search and investigation was started so soon after the disappearance was reported? Not that there's anything wrong with that when a life could have been saved. We saw how the Victoria Stafford case changed the criteria for Amber Alerts.

BBM
This is true and I believe it was already mentioned in MSM although I don't have a quote. I thought the same, just how fortunate, (in such an unfortunate situation) that her family was in a position to possibly move this along at a faster pace and hopefully that helped in the accused being caught so quickly.

 

[Snoopster]

Are they public like in the US? If so, seems like they would've been published by now.

No, they don't publish them publicly like they do in the U.S.
They also don't publish maps/lists of sexual offenders either.

The media is not given as much free reign and you can bet that a very tight lid will be kept on information before and during the trial. TV cameras are not allowed in the courtroom.

 

[Local-np2012]

IMO....i think TB and Noelle knew each in some odd way, IMO i think this all comes down to the party where Noelle was at and the circumstances surrounding why she left....i will leave it at that as we are not allowed to post any hearsay with out back up

she left because she had a fight with her bf and wanted to walk home!!!! she was not out looking for tb or mm ....maybe IMO np might have reconized tb and she was already cold , her family could not pick her up , she didnt want to walk after being upset.....

 

[Canadagurl]

Barbara Short — The 48-year-old Mooretown resident was found dead in her St. Clair Parkway home Oct. 19, 2008. Her husband, Craig Short, is charged with first-degree murder and his second murder trial is set to begin Jan. 21. A first trial in May ended in a hung jury.


http://www.theobserver.ca/2013/01/04/sarnia-police-murder-investigations-continue

Thanks, I googled his name and only old news articles came up. I thought I heard there would be another trial and was surprised I never heard anymore. Small town like this, it's a wonder it was a hung jury. Another reason why I hope this case is an out of town case.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Hi new to this site and it took me over day to read through everything. Just trying to determine what is actually fact and what are people’s opinion. This is my understanding of the facts
1. NP left party in downtown Sarnia shortly before 2 am because she got into an argument with her boyfriend
2. NP’s boyfriends cousin S went after her trying to convince her to get ride or come back to the party and was unsuccessful
3. NP last seen at the corner or Lochiel Street and Christina St. at 2:10 p.m. walking south
4. NP lived in Courtright (which is at least a ½ hour drive from downtown Sarnia
5. AC (22 year old) “had a feeling” and reported suspicious lighter to police on Tuesday Jan 1st
6. Search party for NP on Wednesday Jan 2. 2012
7. Search party called off at 12:20 p.m. – Lambton Alerts alerted that NP had been found
8. 10:30 a.m. Jan 2 – body discovered at Mandauman and Petrolia Line in a woodlot area later to be determined of that of NP
9. Thurday Jan 3, 2012 TB and MM arrested without incident at Best Western Lamplighter Inn in London, ON
10. Police search of both house of MM and TB at Proctor and Cobden St

Now I was wondering if these other things were facts or what someone is actual speculating
1. Cell phone found on Maria St?
2. Picked up by either MM and TB at Wellington and Christina
3. Picked up by cab at Wellington and Christina


I think as a community we are reeling because there are so many unanswered questions – where did they pick her up, where did they take her origninally, what did they do to her and we are all trying to come to grips with such evil living in our own backyards

IMO – NP or anyone else for that matter would not even in the middle of summer attempt to walk to Courtright. She would have walked to a friend or family memebers house or place of work that lived in Sarnia. I truly believe that she was in the wrong place at the wrong time and these two individuals were looking for someway MORE to fulfill their sick fetishes. RIP NP


once again forgive me but it was alot to ready and hoping I can figure out what are facts and what is not

:welcome4: Bornandraisedsarnia! :wagon:

thank you for putting facts known in an organized fashion! :seeya:

 

[angel]

Have you people no mercy?
This is an incredibly painful time for the family and friends of NP as well as TB and MM.
Her parents, her kids, and his parents have nothing to do with this and they should be left out of the discussion.
Try to put yourself in their situation and just try to imagine how it would feel to lose a child to such a senseless act, or to know that your child could do such a horrible evil thing to someone elses... or in the case of TBs kids to live in a community where your mother has shown herself to be a monster, they will now have to grow up in the shadow of what their mother has allegedly done... no child deserves that burden
This is a trying time for many people and the FAMILIES including parents, children, brothers, sisters, boyfriends, etc NEED to be left out of this. Someone they knew and loved did something horrible or something horrible was done to someone they love and now they are just along for the ride... do your small part to make this easier for anyone who is closely associated with NP or the accused and STOP IT with the rumor mongering.

I have read this whole thread and I appreciate comments about confirmed points in the timeline, but these rumors are just becoming terrible. These are peoples lives you are gossiping about.
Sorry for such a negative way to post my first comment but I really just feel for all of these people and the rumors are getting out of hand... the mods have repeatedly posted that there is no reason to discuss innocent uninvolved people. Start listening and respecting.

I think a lot of these people just jump on with out reading the thread you can tell because there are things mentioned over and over again... we just nicely tell them the topic is off limits and move forward, most catch on pretty quickly..

Sarnia is an amazing community and hopefully everyone is talking to their young children about how none of this is any fault EXCEPT the accused.. if i ran into a child of a murder i would not hold no ill feelings.. tis an innocent child. i am talking about any child of a murder and not just pointing out any one said children. an innocent child can never be harbored.

 

[Bravo]

Reporters were allowed to tweet from the Courtroom in the Stafford Case. They were allowed to tweet any and all testimony,descriptions of evidence etc. etc. The one restriction was they could not tweet any exchanges when the Jurors were not present. They really did an excellent job.

 

[know_what_i'm_sayin']

she left because she had a fight with her bf and wanted to walk home!!!! she was not out looking for tb or mm ....maybe IMO np might have reconized tb and she was already cold , her family could not pick her up , she didnt want to walk after being upset.....

I'm confused about the part where you say "she wanted to walk home!!!!" I'm not a local, but from what I've read (I've been following since the beginning), NP lived a 1/2 hour car ride away from downtown Sarnia. If this is true, it would take her hours to walk home. no? I can't imagine her making that decision, it doesn't hold any logic. NP was intelligent, even after a few drinks, I don't think she'd be game for such a hike at this time of night. I do think it's possible she accepted a ride from these 2, especially if she was familiar with TB in some way. I mean, local nurse in her 30's, mother of 3... I hate to say it, but I may have accepted too.