Canada - Numerous pedestrians struck by van near Yonge and Finch, Toronto, Apr 2018 *guilty*

[MrsThreadgoode]

There have been 4 police officers shot in the past few days in the US. Two were just responding to a shoplifting call at HomeDepot. And they got shot in the face. Over a shopliftting charge?

And 2 officers, who had just ordered Chinese food, and were sitting and eating lunch, were shot and killed, with no provocation.

That is the kind of violence the officers are dealing with when they are on the job. So to say that they over react or that they need to get their act together, does not fit the context that they live on the job each day. JMO


Comparing US cops to the UK cops is apples and oranges. What are the chances that a cop in the UK is going to meet up with an armed gang member, compared to that happening in the US?


answer:

In a population of 56 million, that adds up to about 50 to 60 gun killings annually in the UK. In the USA, by contrast, there are about 160 times as many gun homicides in a country that is roughly six times larger in population. There were 8,124 gun homicides in 2014, according to the latest FBI figures.

Maybe because there are too many guns in the U.S.?

I see your point, and thank you to responding to my post. However, what I was trying to say is that police training should most definitely prioritize de-escalation.

And, for every instance of a police officer being shot in the U.S. (and I sincerely wish that never happened), there are MANY times more unarmed or mentally unstable civilians shot by the police in the U.S. That should never happen either.


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[dotr]

Hello: I am new to this site. Is there a way to find out if a particular forum topic exists. I tried to make an enquiry on this thread about the Butcher trial in Nova Scotia but my question was deleted by the webmaster. And the webmaster does not accept messages. So I am stuck. Thank you.

Welcome to Ws eugenie!
Here is a ( hastily started) thread..
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?372378-Nicholas-Butcher-2nd-degree-trial-murder-of-Halifax-yoga-teacher&p=14079269#post14079269
Nicholas Butcher 2nd-degree trial, murder of Halifax yoga teacher

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

I agree this has shades of Elliot Rodger. Alek Minassian is an injustice collector.

From the CBC link, he has lots of issues of social alienation and social isolation issues like Rodger.

On Wound Collectors
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201509/wound-collectors

Murderous Envy
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/keeping-kids-safe/200905/murderous-envy

The Dangerous Injustice Collector: Behaviors of Someone Who Never Forgets, Never Forgives, Never Lets Go, and Strikes Back!
http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/vio.2014.1509

Psychology of Terrorism - National Criminal Justice Reference Service
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/208552.PDF

Criminal And Behavioral Profiling
https://us.sagepub.com/sites/default/files/upm-binaries/80474_Chapter_1.pdf

Injustice Collectors
http://www.psybersquare.com/family/family_injustice.html

1.) Injustice Collectors are convinced that they are never wrong. How is it possible that they are never wrong? It is simple: They are always right.

2.) Injustice Collectors never apologize. Ever. For anything.

3.) Injustice Collectors truly believe that they are morally and ethically superior to others and that others chronically do not hold themselves to the same high standards as the injustice collector does.

4.) Injustice Collectors make the rules, break the rules and enforce the rules of the family. They are a combined legislator, police, and judge and jury of

5.) Injustice Collectors never worry about what is wrong with themselves as their "bad list" grows. Their focus is always on the failings of others.

6.) Injustice Collectors are never upset by the disparity of their rules for others with their own expectations of themselves.

7.) Injustice Collectors rationalize their own behavior with great ease and comfort.

Here are more with 20 characteristics
http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/11/25/are-they-injustice-collector

Characteristics of Injustice Collectors

1. Injustice collectors are never wrong. How is it possible that they are never wrong? It's simple: They are always right.

2. Injustice collectors never apologize. Ever. For anything.

3. Injustice collectors truly believe they are morally and ethically superior to others and that others seem incapable of holding themselves to the same high standards as the injustice collector does.

4. Injustice collectors make the rules, break the rules and enforce the rules of the family. They are a combination of legislator, police, judge and jury to those they consider their subjects. They forever banish from their kingdom any subject they deem disloyal, and only grant clemency if there is sufficient (in their eyes) contrition.

5. Injustice collectors never worry about what is wrong with them as their "bad" list grows. Their focus is always on the failings of others.

6. Injustice collectors are never troubled by the disparity between their rules for others and their own expectations of themselves. Injustice collectors rationalize their own behavior with great ease and comfort.

7. Injustice collectors have an external orientation; the problem always exists in the world, outside of themselves, and in their view, the world would be an acceptable place if their rules and standards were followed at all times.

8. Injustice collectors do not have a capacity for remorse, empathy or guilt.

9. Injustice collectors scoff at the idea of therapy, therapists, self-help books, and other tools used by people who struggle to live with them.

10. The phrase "walking on eggshells" describes life with an injustice collector.

11. The IC (injustice Collector) will prey upon your weaknesses to frame all issues in their terms.

12. IC's will always cry foul when you are 'mean' to them and accuse you of being nasty when you are confronting them with their negative behavior.

13. They are titanically insecure and cannot trust anyone. All relationships they have, even with their own parents and children and trustless and must be reinforced by subordination over and over.

14. They can only strengthen relationships through imprisoning their mates and banning behaviors and other relationships. Friends and family are a huge threat to the IC.

15. They must repetitively revisit situations where you service them, give in to them and agree with them. They will over time shrink your world to a small plot of empty activities that only they like. They are terrified of travel, meeting new people, understanding new concepts and paroling you from any punishment they have previously 'convicted' you of.

16. They do not care about you at all, they care about aggrandizing themselves with you as an assistant producer.

17. They will occasionally do something for you, but if you are not completely brainwashed, it will be a negative experience for you in the end. Example is throwing you a birthday party. I guarantee you will not have fun at your own party.

18. They will force you to choose between them and other things you like or love. The more you choose them, the more they will make you choose them over and over. They do not understand the concept of loyalty at all.

19. Hypocrisy is their modus operandi for debating and arguing with you. Everything they say about you is true about them. (aka Projection) It makes it so you try to 'win' fights by getting them to agree with you, which they never can because their whole position is false.

20. Your life will disappear into their lives. Your hopes and dreams will fade, even in your own mind. You will eat what they want, you will watch what they want on TV, you will vacation where they want, or not at all.

Early to say, but very likely Minassian is going to meet all characteristics of one and looks like he does.

Identifying The Next Mass Murderer—Before It’s Too Late
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...ntifying-the-next-mass-murderer-it-s-too-late

From the article.
Narcissistic Traits
Paranoid Ideation
Passionate Hatred
Wound Collectors
Communication
Violence as Magic
Isolation
The Lethal Cocktail
Acting Out

Websleuth Radio Interview Tina Meier
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2013/09/30/tricias-true-crime-radio-adult-cyber-bullying

Tina Meier's description of Lori Drew starts at the 20:40 mark. Tina Meier is Megan's mother who was harassed to suicide by Drew. Lori Drew is a constant complainer and very bitter. In ID Web Of Lies Friend Request and Tina Meier said Lori and Sarah Drew had trouble fitting in, which points to social alienation. This likely describes Alek Minassian as much as it describes Elliot Rodger. Lori Drew is similar to Jodi Arias, Casey Anthony, Betty Broderick, Yoselyn Ortega, Michelle Carter, Nikolas Cruz, Stephen Paddock, Devin Kelley, Omar Mateen, Seung-Hui Cho, Adam Lanza, Eric Harris, Anders Breivik, 9/11 Terrorists and Osama bin Laden. Drew is more driven by rejection like Arias, Broderick, and Carter, while she is vicarious like Lanza, Mateen, and bin Laden. She can be predatory like Larry Nassar, Jimmy Savile, Jerry Sandusky, and Mary Kay Letourneau. That is not the case with Minassian, though they are extremely narcissistic. They all had pathological envy issues, which is likely the case with Minassian.

WOW ... just WOW!!!

Absolutely amazing information that you have put together here for all of us to read. Thank you ever so much!!


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[MrsThreadgoode]

No problem. Thanks for asking. I hope you are sincere in your interest and will read them.

The Myth That Mental Illness Causes Mass Shootings




The Myth of Violence and Mental Illness




Mental Health Myths and Facts


Post by Former NIMH Director Thomas Insel: Understanding Severe Mental Illness


Study Shows Mentally Ill More Likely to Be Victims, Not Perpetrators, of Violence



Facts About Mental Illness and Violence

Thank you so very much for this wealth you have provided. Greatly appreciated.


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[MrsThreadgoode]

He did not really know if there was a risk to him or not. He assumed there was no more weapons and he assumed there would be no scuffle or physical resistance, so he didn't wait for back up. That was his call, but it was a gamble. It paid off this time. But it should not be the expected protocol. JMO

It will be very interesting to hear from Officer Lam himself about his thinking and judgement, etc., in the future. He won’t be able to speak publicly about it until after the trial, I assume, because he will be a witness.




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[MrsThreadgoode]

Hi katy, i will try to not go to hard on you as i know you are still probably suffering from the shellacking my knights put on your kings

Anyhow, what we saw with Officer Lam was exactly what many of us would like to see in these situations. The outcome couldnt have been better.
But lets say Lam was quicker on the trigger.... This was a live situation, there were pedestrians still on the streets. Are firing stray bullets on a busy Toronto street a good idea? What if an innocent by stander got hit? As you said, what if the suspect had a suicide vest or explosives? How would that have turned out if Lam had shot him numerous times like we have seen in recent US killings by police?

This was a bad situation Officer Lam found himself in and he executed the perfect response to this bad situation. Probably the ONLY response that could have lead no further loss of life. Officer Lam reacted on instinct. Instinct, that was developed though his training. Training, which places a high value on the sanctity of life. This is what Canadian citizens want from their LEO's. I believe it is what many Americans want as well. But with all of the similarities in culture between US and Canada, there are many differences as well. Americans have to decide what they want for them.
Just don't bring that "wild west, shoot first, ask questions later" attitude and culture here. We don't want it. And this case, although it is only a sample size of N=1, is a perfect example of why.

Now, we have the suspect in custody alive and well. If he were a part of a larger operation, we would have access to him for intelligence. We are able to question him about motives and assistance etc.. etc.. etc..

It couldn't have been handled more perfectly. I am very proud Officer Lam is a LEO for one of the largest police forces in our country. It sets a precedent, a very strong precedent that is going to save lives.

I couldn’t possibly agree with you more. Thank you.


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[MrsThreadgoode]

Not going to power post here - the dead are barely identified and not yet buried.

But I would like to address those that seem to be turning a positive outcome from Constable Lam's actions into a negative.

This isn't the US and many, if not most Canadians are thankful for that. The recent shootings in the US mentioned have no bearing on this case - Canada rolls in a different way. We certainly have our problems but we don't want that to interfere when it comes to this type of situation. Jmo.

The recent shootings mentioned in the US are accompanied by the head of the local detachments involved claiming US citizens have a hate for US LE and they leave it at that. Read the threads and the links.

This is ludicrous imo as they take no responsibility for the poor relationship between US LE and US citizens. Something caused the poor relationship - for LE to think LE has nothing to do with that poor relationship means it will not be addressed anytime soon - you can't fix what you don't acknowledge - quote from an American.

Expressing the opinion that this situation was handled poorly will have no effect on Canada as a whole - any more than Canadians criticizing US LE for their actions. Citizens of each country will decide what is right for their country.

Proud to be a Canadian.

So well said. Thank you.


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[MrsThreadgoode]

Incel culture is beyond frightening, it's horrifying, and it gets worse by the month. It takes a whole lot for Reddit to ban a group. The Toronto perp is currently being referred to as "St. Alek" on their largest forum (unlinkable here.)

As for the Aspergers angle, I live with two people with Aspergers and just anecdotally, speaking from that experience, I can see how that research linked is valid. With my Aspergers son in particular, empathy wasn't automatic. He had emotions for sure, but they were very centered around himself. It's taken years to get him to understand that other people have those same emotions and even more importantly, teaching him right vs. wrong in tandem with how his actions affect other people. It's still very much a work in progress.
But what about the many Aspergers kids who never got such training? And who still do? Schools can only do so much. If the parents don't care to provide an appropriate home, such a child might grow up awkward, angry and then turn to who knows what as an adult.

It's a terrible tragedy, but all we can do IMO is continue to raise awareness about autism spectrum disorders and hope that more therapies become available to public agencies so that kids won't fall through the cracks so hard. I don't think anyone should be excused after committing a heinous crime, autism or not (ex Dylann Roof; this Toronto guy).

Thank you so much for sharing such personal insight. Your son is in the best of hands, I am sure.


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[MrsThreadgoode]

Thank you for this honest but difficult assessment. I know it is hard to discuss these sensitive subjects.

I have read a lot of talk here about schizophrenic/bi-polar people, and how they are NOT more likely to be violent, but are more likely to be victimized. And I don't know, maybe the statistics bare that out?

But my younger brother, rest his soul, was diagnosed with adolescent onset schizophrenia in his late teens. It came out of nowhere. Our family was shocked, as no one we knew of had ever had the same diagnosis.

And my brother LOVED animals and babies and was very intelligent and kind. But to be honest, I did worry that he was going to seriously hurt someone someday because when he was off his meds, his delusions were so out of control. He heard voices, which often told him to do very bad things. And he fought hard against doing them, but he would sometimes make verbal threats to others. Sometimes yo strangers, sometimes to family members. He thought the CIA was after him, wanting to kidnap him and take him to Sudan. He thought Johnny Carson was in on the CIA plot. He even got arrested one time, for going to the live taping and rushing the stage during commercial break.

So if I am being honest, I have to say that his paranoid schizophrenic episodes made it more likely he would hurt someone, given the chance. He was arrested every time he got out of control and was hospitalized and soundly medicated each time. He smashed up a lot of furniture and windows, and such, but was only arrested for misdemeanor assaults for slapping or hitting someone, a few times.

And I have to think that autism can have a similar affect. JMO

You are very kind to have shared this with us. I am so sorry for what your brother and loved ones have had to cope with.


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[KaaBoom]

There have been 4 police officers shot in the past few days in the US. Two were just responding to a shoplifting call at HomeDepot. And they got shot in the face. Over a shopliftting charge?

And 2 officers, who had just ordered Chinese food, and were sitting and eating lunch, were shot and killed, with no provocation.

That is the kind of violence the officers are dealing with when they are on the job. So to say that they over react or that they need to get their act together, does not fit the context that they live on the job each day. JMO


Comparing US cops to the UK cops is apples and oranges. What are the chances that a cop in the UK is going to meet up with an armed gang member, compared to that happening in the US?


answer:

In a population of 56 million, that adds up to about 50 to 60 gun killings annually in the UK. In the USA, by contrast, there are about 160 times as many gun homicides in a country that is roughly six times larger in population. There were 8,124 gun homicides in 2014, according to the latest FBI figures.

Perspective: Law enforcement is only a moderately dangerous job. The police kill far more citizens than citizens kill police officers. The police kill more unarmed citizens, then citizens kill police. As for the shooting over a shoplifting charge, Police have shot citizens over nothing more then having a burned out tail light on their car. <modsnip>

25 Most Dangerous Jobs in America
1. Logging workers
2. Fishers and related fishing workers
3. Aircraft pilots and flight engineers
4. Roofers
5. Refuse and recyclable material collectors
6. Structural iron and steel workers
7. Driver/sales workers and truck drivers
8. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers
9. First-line supervisors of construction trades and extraction workers
10. Miscellaneous agricultural workers
11. Grounds maintenance workers
12. First-line supervisors of mechanics, installers, and repairers
13. Construction laborers
14. Police and sheriff&#8217;s patrol officers
15. Electrical power-line installers and repairers
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18. First-line supervisors of landscaping, lawn service, and groundskeeping
19. Telecommunications line installers and repairers
20. Athletes, coaches, umpires, and related workers
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22. Electricians
23. Industrial machinery installation, repair, and maintenance workers
24. Painters, construction and maintenance
25. Heating, air conditioning, and refrigeration mechanics and

25 Most Dangerous Jobs in America - 24_7 Wall St..html

 

[lcid]

I am always puzzled when people say they had never heard of incel culture before. This was all over media after Elliot Rodger and they also celebrated his monstrous crimes. It must be nice not to know.

I have been wondering whether Tess Richey also fell prey to one of these angry, selfish, violent men too, based on comments made by the suspect's friends. We will have to wait to find out, but I think it's likely. Speculation, of course.

 

[Crosby87]

"He was the best hire we never hired&#8217; recruiter says of Alek Minassian"

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/brea...inassian/ar-AAwliTM?li=AAadgLE&ocid=chromentp

 

[dotr]

http://torontosun.com/news/crime/wa...ays-in-jail-that-he-wanted-to-be-shot-witness

While the city was reeling from its worst murder spree, the man charged with the gruesome crimes sat in the Toronto South Detention Centre not expressing one ounce of regret for the victims, according to sources.

But Alek Minassian, who faces 10 counts of murder and 13 of attempted murder, did express regret that the Toronto Police officer hailed as a hero didn&#8217;t shoot him.

He said he &#8220;looked up on the Internet &#8216;death by cop,&#8217;&#8221; someone who talked with him told the Toronto Sun.

He told people he &#8220;knew what he (allegedly) did&#8221; and was ready to die.

One person who spoke with Minassian in the jail said this incident allegedly happened &#8220;because he hates the people who deny him sex&#8221; and that he &#8220;feels no remorse.&#8221;

&#8220;He refused to answer questions on his social life,&#8221; said a witness.

At that point, a person in the jail asked him &#8220;if he had a girlfriend?&#8221; Minassian answered with a &#8220;quick no.&#8221;
He was then asked &#8220;if he has been on a date?&#8221;
After another &#8220;quick answer no,&#8221; he was asked the last time he asked a woman out on a date?

&#8220;It was a very fast answer &#8212; 2012&#8221; and &#8220;she said no.&#8221;
But while he complained about his lack of female company, he didn&#8217;t complain about his childhood or home life.

&#8220;He is three cells from (accused serial killer) Bruce McArthur,&#8221; said an insider. &#8220;Imagine, almost 20 (allegedly) killed by these guys.&#8221;

 

[DakotaMayi]

http://torontosun.com/news/crime/wa...ays-in-jail-that-he-wanted-to-be-shot-witness

I hope you live a very, very, very long life behind bars Alek, tortured by the fact that you didn't get what you wanted and the cop didn't shoot you.

I'm not interested in anything this guy wants or why he did what he did. Just leave him to rot. If he begged not to be shot, I would have hoped he got shot. I just hope he gets the opposite of everything he wants and that he knows he is not and never will be a hero like his cult-like followers claim him to be.

Enjoy your long and lonely existence. No one will remember your name, but we will always remember those who passed.

 

[bluesneakers]

I hope you live a very, very, very long life behind bars Alek, tortured by the fact that you didn't get what you wanted and the cop didn't shoot you.

I'm not interested in anything this guy wants or why he did what he did. Just leave him to rot. If he begged not to be shot, I would have hoped he got shot. I just hope he gets the opposite of everything he wants and that he knows he is not and never will be a hero like his cult-like followers claim him to be.

Enjoy your long and lonely existence. No one will remember your name, but we will always remember those who passed.

I hope you're right. Maybe it can be the upside to the confusion early on.

 

[Crosby87]

Metroland Media Toronto has obtained Minassian&#8217;s three-page resume from last spring so it doesn&#8217;t say whether he was currently employed or if he has a valid driver&#8217;s license. If he wasn't employed, or if he was having trouble maintaining steady employment, where did he live? His father attended his son's first court appearance. His mother has taken a leave of absence from her job.

AM wasn&#8217;t hired by a company located at Yonge Street and Finch Avenue in Toronto, after he was interviewed for an IT position in April of 2017. In October 2016, he was fired from a position as a QA developer after 6 months. Being fired from a job and not being offered the position he attended an interview for looks like AM was being rejected not only by women but by employers. Unable to find a job over a long period of time would cause a major crisis in most people's lives and lead them to believe they are worthless and their life has no purpose or meaning. Being fired and unemployed may have made him feel that no woman would be willing to love and accept him. Alot of men believe they must be able to provide for their wife and family. AM is 25 years of age.

AM's employment record is sporadic. Perhaps he was upset and confused because he was unemployed for a long time and didn&#8217;t understand why? Did the company who refused to hire him in April 2017 or the one who fired him in 2016 help him understand why they didn't want him? The company that didn&#8217;t hire AM said, &#8220;He was the best hire we didn&#8217;t hire&#8221;. So if AM was their best hire, why wasn&#8217;t he offered the position? Timothy Cunningham, who also lived in Toronto, willingly killed himself after he was denied a promotion at work. Without a career, a lot of people feel they have no future and they want to die. Is this one of the reasons AM put himself in a situation where he could be killed?

Take a look at AM&#8217;s Employment History

The resume states that Minassian went to Seneca College between September 2011 and April 2016 and that he earned a Bachelor of software development. Minassian&#8217;s resume said he developed test scripts to automatically test the functionality of the organization&#8217;s web application and &#8220;manually performed test cases to ensure the web application is working as intended.&#8221;

April 19, 2017, at 2 p.m., Alek Minassian attended a job interview at a company at Yonge St. and Finch Ave. Despite his impressive technical knowledge and skills, Minassian wasn&#8217;t hired.

Minassian&#8217;s most recent place of employment at the time was Toogood Financial Systems on Commerce Valley Dr. in Thornhill. He worked there as a QA (quality assurance) developer from May 2016 until October 2016 when he was let go, the company&#8217;s chief operating officer confirmed in a phone interview on Wednesday.

Between November 2015 and March 2016, Minassian worked in product development as a software developer in Mississauga. His resume states he &#8220;worked on the design and implementation of a wine shopping application.&#8221; The application, the resume said, utilizes &#8220;data visualization strategies to quickly engage customers and help them with their purchasing decisions.&#8221;

Between May and August 2015, Minassian&#8217;s resume said he worked in the IT department of OMERS as part of a &#8220;co-op term&#8221; where he &#8220;performed regression tests on existing application functionality to ensure they were not broken by new functionality.&#8221; His former employer refused to discuss current or former employees.

Between September 2013 and April 2014, Minassian&#8217;s resume said he worked part time as a software developer at Seneca College&#8217;s Centre for Development of Open Technology where he was part of a team that &#8220;worked on an Android application which is used for connecting to medical devices, such as a blood pressure monitor, through Bluetooth and obtaining a reading of all the information.&#8221; The college wouldn&#8217;t confirm or deny that Minassian was an employee.

In July and August 2010, Minassian&#8217;s resume said he worked in the accounts payable department of Compugen, a Richmond Hill company, where he &#8220;sorted and filed invoices&#8221; and &#8220;shredded documents.&#8221; However, Donald Anderson, the company&#8217;s corporate communications manager, said the company has no record of Alek Minassian being an employee there. &#8220;However, we didn&#8217;t know if he had been here as a co-operative education student. And we don&#8217;t have records of co-op going back that far,&#8221; Anderson said. &#8220;We do employ his mother, who is now on leave for obvious reasons.&#8221;

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/brea...inassian/ar-AAwliTM?li=AAadgLE&ocid=chromentp

 

[dotr]

VIDEO.
http://toronto.citynews.ca/video/20...-to-mel-lastman-square-in-wake-of-van-attack/

WATCH LIVE: Therapy dogs brought to Mel Lastman Square in wake of van attack

Volunteers with the St. John Ambulance Therapy Dog program will be in Mel Lastman Square to offer comfort and support to people in the wake of Monday&#8217;s van attack.

 

[TLC4645]

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.the...-the-victims-of-the-yonge-st-van-rampage.html


Victim #7 identified.

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[TLC4645]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/security-video-captures-part-of-toronto-van-attack-1.3902971

Actual security video footage showing part of the van run.


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[dotr]

https://www.cp24.com/news/seventh-victim-of-deadly-van-attack-identified-by-coworkers-1.3904013

[h=1]Seventh victim of deadly van attack identified by coworkers[/h]

Sohe Chung

Employees at a downtown Holt Renfrew have identified a co-worker &#8211; Sohe Chung &#8211; as a victim of the deadly North York van attack that took place Monday afternoon.

The employees told CTV News Toronto that management conveyed the news that Chung had been killed. She worked as a sales associate on the third floor of the department store.

A card with Chung&#8217;s name on it was placed among the flowers at Olive Square, near Yonge Street and Finch Avenue. &#8220;You will always be remembered for your wonderful heart and kind soul,&#8221; the card reads.