Canada - Numerous pedestrians struck by van near Yonge and Finch, Toronto, Apr 2018 *guilty*

[JDG]

I think so too. How many other entitled lonely men are out there thinking women should be punished for not wanting to sleep with them?

Far too many I fear.

 

[katydid23]

If it is true that he has Aspergers, I would suspect that contributed to this event. But obviously not everyone with Aspergers is violent. I blame this Incel culture. I had never heard of it before, and frankly it is frightening.

I think it might be the combination of the 2 things that makes it potentially very frightening. Obviously, not everyone with Autism is violent. Not at all.

It is just that if someone has anger, resentment, and then that is combined with autism/aspergers, then potentially it is a difficult situation.

 

[JDG]

I have noticed that too. Here when it is breaking cops come roaring park there cars all over the street on sidewalks on medians in the wrong direction total zoo

in europe if you watch they arrive orderly try to keep lanes open so ambulances can get in and out

I went the first time down to pulse like 6 days afterwards the cop cars were still all over the place in every which direction it was unreal sidewalks hills backwards forwards sideways doors open flashers on in daylite looked like total mayhem 6 days later

it astounded me noone was in any of the cars i thought i guess that is why it is still a total wreck here it was nuts

its crazy here !

I was not complaining about them. I think the fast response from ALL the first responders was excellent and very well done.

To see bodies strewn all over the road and sidewalks, injured people everywhere, is hell.

The whole place was a crime scene, who cares how they've parked or where?? Seriously??

They had to block the traffic to attend to the injured and triage them. Cover the deceased etc.

I sure hope you never find yourself in some predicament and complain about the way someone parks when they come to your aid. SMH

 

[x_files]

Far too many I fear.

I'd expect hundreds of more copycats in the next 20 years unless we can find ways to prevent it.

 

[Woodland]

Not going to power post here - the dead are barely identified and not yet buried.

But I would like to address those that seem to be turning a positive outcome from Constable Lam's actions into a negative.

This isn't the US and many, if not most Canadians are thankful for that. The recent shootings in the US mentioned have no bearing on this case - Canada rolls in a different way. We certainly have our problems but we don't want that to interfere when it comes to this type of situation. Jmo.

The recent shootings mentioned in the US are accompanied by the head of the local detachments involved claiming US citizens have a hate for US LE and they leave it at that. Read the threads and the links.

This is ludicrous imo as they take no responsibility for the poor relationship between US LE and US citizens. Something caused the poor relationship - for LE to think LE has nothing to do with that poor relationship means it will not be addressed anytime soon - you can't fix what you don't acknowledge - quote from an American.

Expressing the opinion that this situation was handled poorly will have no effect on Canada as a whole - any more than Canadians criticizing US LE for their actions. Citizens of each country will decide what is right for their country.

Proud to be a Canadian.

 

[CoolJ]

He did not really know if there was a risk to him or not. He assumed there was no more weapons and he assumed there would be no scuffle or physical resistance, so he didn't wait for back up. That was his call, but it was a gamble. It paid off this time. But it should not be the expected protocol. JMO

Hi katy, i will try to not go to hard on you as i know you are still probably suffering from the shellacking my knights put on your kings

Anyhow, what we saw with Officer Lam was exactly what many of us would like to see in these situations. The outcome couldnt have been better.
But lets say Lam was quicker on the trigger.... This was a live situation, there were pedestrians still on the streets. Are firing stray bullets on a busy Toronto street a good idea? What if an innocent by stander got hit? As you said, what if the suspect had a suicide vest or explosives? How would that have turned out if Lam had shot him numerous times like we have seen in recent US killings by police?

This was a bad situation Officer Lam found himself in and he executed the perfect response to this bad situation. Probably the ONLY response that could have lead no further loss of life. Officer Lam reacted on instinct. Instinct, that was developed though his training. Training, which places a high value on the sanctity of life. This is what Canadian citizens want from their LEO's. I believe it is what many Americans want as well. But with all of the similarities in culture between US and Canada, there are many differences as well. Americans have to decide what they want for them.
Just don't bring that "wild west, shoot first, ask questions later" attitude and culture here. We don't want it. And this case, although it is only a sample size of N=1, is a perfect example of why.

Now, we have the suspect in custody alive and well. If he were a part of a larger operation, we would have access to him for intelligence. We are able to question him about motives and assistance etc.. etc.. etc..

It couldn't have been handled more perfectly. I am very proud Officer Lam is a LEO for one of the largest police forces in our country. It sets a precedent, a very strong precedent that is going to save lives.

 

[CoolJ]

Not going to power post here - the dead are barely identified and not yet buried.

But I would like to address those that seem to be turning a positive outcome from Constable Lam's actions into a negative.

This isn't the US and many, if not most Canadians are thankful for that. The recent shootings in the US mentioned have no bearing on this case - Canada rolls in a different way. We certainly have our problems but we don't want that to interfere when it comes to this type of situation. Jmo.

The recent shootings mentioned in the US are accompanied by the head of the local detachments involved claiming US citizens have a hate for US LE and they leave it at that. Read the threads and the links.

This is ludicrous imo as they take no responsibility for the poor relationship between US LE and US citizens. Something caused the poor relationship - for LE to think LE has nothing to do with that poor relationship means it will not be addressed anytime soon - you can't fix what you don't acknowledge - quote from an American.

Expressing the opinion that this situation was handled poorly will have no effect on Canada as a whole - any more than Canadians criticizing US LE for their actions. Citizens of each country will decide what is right for their country.

Proud to be a Canadian.

Amen, the trust between citizens and LE in Canada, while not perfect, is on a much higher level than the trust between US citizens and US LE appears to be. Actually in the US it appears to be non-existent. Maybe they could drop the exceptionalism mindset and actually look to other countries for a better way of doing things.....

Trust is is the main ingredient in healthy relationships of any kind. I trust LE in Canada as whole.

 

[Woodland]

Amen, the trust between citizens and LE in Canada, while not perfect, is on a much higher level than the trust between US citizens and US LE appears to be. Actually in the US it appears to be non-existent. Maybe they could drop the exceptionalism mindset and actually look to other countries for a better way of doing things.....

Trust is is the main ingredient in healthy relationships of any kind. I trust LE in Canada as whole.

Amen back aatcha.

 

[Woodland]

Hi katy, i will try to not go to hard on you as i know you are still probably suffering from the shellacking my knights put on your kings

Anyhow, what we saw with Officer Lam was exactly what many of us would like to see in these situations. The outcome couldnt have been better.
But lets say Lam was quicker on the trigger.... This was a live situation, there were pedestrians still on the streets. Are firing stray bullets on a busy Toronto street a good idea? What if an innocent by stander got hit? As you said, what if the suspect had a suicide vest or explosives? How would that have turned out if Lam had shot him numerous times like we have seen in recent US killings by police?

This was a bad situation Officer Lam found himself in and he executed the perfect response to this bad situation. Probably the ONLY response that could have lead no further loss of life. Officer Lam reacted on instinct. Instinct, that was developed though his training. Training, which places a high value on the sanctity of life. This is what Canadian citizens want from their LEO's. I believe it is what many Americans want as well. But with all of the similarities in culture between US and Canada, there are many differences as well. Americans have to decide what they want for them.
Just don't bring that "wild west, shoot first, ask questions later" attitude and culture here. We don't want it. And this case, although it is only a sample size of N=1, is a perfect example of why.

Now, we have the suspect in custody alive and well. If he were a part of a larger operation, we would have access to him for intelligence. We are able to question him about motives and assistance etc.. etc.. etc..

It couldn't have been handled more perfectly. I am very proud Officer Lam is a LEO for one of the largest police forces in our country. It sets a precedent, a very strong precedent that is going to save lives.

BBM - fwiw, I see the shooting of the officers in Florida as a direct result of the guy shot in the back in Sacremento. The Florida shooter then got back inside his vehicle and shot himself. Imo, he felt no desire to explain his actions. Imo, he didn't need to.

This is not the first time I have noticed this trend in the US - an unarmed person is shot (sometimes int the back) and other LEO's in the US are soon shot dead at what appears to be random. Nothing random about it imo.

Again, I'm proud to be Canadian. Thank-you Constable Lam for reinforcing this feeling.

 

[Aescwynn]

If it is true that he has Aspergers, I would suspect that contributed to this event. But obviously not everyone with Aspergers is violent. I blame this Incel culture. I had never heard of it before, and frankly it is frightening.

Incel culture is beyond frightening, it's horrifying, and it gets worse by the month. It takes a whole lot for Reddit to ban a group. The Toronto perp is currently being referred to as "St. Alek" on their largest forum (unlinkable here.)

As for the Aspergers angle, I live with two people with Aspergers and just anecdotally, speaking from that experience, I can see how that research linked is valid. With my Aspergers son in particular, empathy wasn't automatic. He had emotions for sure, but they were very centered around himself. It's taken years to get him to understand that other people have those same emotions and even more importantly, teaching him right vs. wrong in tandem with how his actions affect other people. It's still very much a work in progress.
But what about the many Aspergers kids who never got such training? And who still do? Schools can only do so much. If the parents don't care to provide an appropriate home, such a child might grow up awkward, angry and then turn to who knows what as an adult.

It's a terrible tragedy, but all we can do IMO is continue to raise awareness about autism spectrum disorders and hope that more therapies become available to public agencies so that kids won't fall through the cracks so hard. I don't think anyone should be excused after committing a heinous crime, autism or not (ex Dylann Roof; this Toronto guy).

 

[Hazel]

You cannot 'blame' Aspergers. But it is kind of hard to ignore that several of the most egregious and horrific mass killings have been carried out by those on the spectrum. [Adam Lanza, Elliot Rodger, Jeffrey Dahmer,The Unabomber,Dr Harold Shipman, etc]

And there have been recent studies that apparently found a higher statistical connection between known killers and autism.


ETA:

Serial killers are portrayed as cold, calculating and often obsessive but it was unknown exactly what caused them to commit such heinous crimes.
Now research from Glasgow has found that these similar traits among different murderers may be linked to specific psychological disorders and childhood trauma.
Researchers from Glasgow have conducted the first ever analysis of journals, news reports and legal files involved in the cases of killers, including Anders Breivik and Dr Harold Shipman.
They discovered a link between suffering a combination of Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD), a head injury and a psychosocial disorder, such as that caused by exposure to abuse in childhood or parental divorce.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...mon-murderers-study-claims.html#ixzz5DhkuqXl1
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Could there be a correlation between autism/certain type of Asperger's with lack of empathy? :thinking:

Take the online Asperger’s Test:
https://www.aspergerstestsite.com/75/autism-spectrum-quotient-aq-test/

 

[Woodland]

Incel culture is beyond frightening, it's horrifying, and it gets worse by the month. It takes a whole lot for Reddit to ban a group. The Toronto perp is currently being referred to as "St. Alek" on their largest forum (unlinkable here.)

As for the Aspergers angle, I live with two people with Aspergers and just anecdotally, speaking from that experience, I can see how that research linked is valid. With my Aspergers son in particular, empathy wasn't automatic. He had emotions for sure, but they were very centered around himself. It's taken years to get him to understand that other people have those same emotions and even more importantly, teaching him right vs. wrong in tandem with how his actions affect other people. It's still very much a work in progress.
But what about the many Aspergers kids who never got such training? And who still do? Schools can only do so much. If the parents don't care to provide an appropriate home, such a child might grow up awkward, angry and then turn to who knows what as an adult.

It's a terrible tragedy, but all we can do IMO is continue to raise awareness about autism spectrum disorders and hope that more therapies become available to public agencies so that kids won't fall through the cracks so hard. I don't think anyone should be excused after committing a heinous crime, autism or not (ex Dylann Roof; this Toronto guy).

Thank-you Aescwynn - that must have taken a lot to share.

 

[Aescwynn]

Thank-you Aescwynn - that must have taken a lot to share.

Thank you- having an autistic child is not easy, no matter how smart and "high functioning" they are.

 

[katydid23]

I think many of us really do not care that he has autism, he is a mass murderer and should be treated as such.

Thou shall not kill.

I am trying to understand this.

IF the defendant was born with an illness, that makes it impossible for him to communicate successfully, and thus he builds up frustration and anger, and then has aggressive outbursts that are hard to control, and predict, wouldn't that be a mitigating factor in his favor?

 

[DakotaMayi]

Not going to power post here - the dead are barely identified and not yet buried.

But I would like to address those that seem to be turning a positive outcome from Constable Lam's actions into a negative.

This isn't the US and many, if not most Canadians are thankful for that. The recent shootings in the US mentioned have no bearing on this case - Canada rolls in a different way. We certainly have our problems but we don't want that to interfere when it comes to this type of situation. Jmo.

The recent shootings mentioned in the US are accompanied by the head of the local detachments involved claiming US citizens have a hate for US LE and they leave it at that. Read the threads and the links.

This is ludicrous imo as they take no responsibility for the poor relationship between US LE and US citizens. Something caused the poor relationship - for LE to think LE has nothing to do with that poor relationship means it will not be addressed anytime soon - you can't fix what you don't acknowledge - quote from an American.

Expressing the opinion that this situation was handled poorly will have no effect on Canada as a whole - any more than Canadians criticizing US LE for their actions. Citizens of each country will decide what is right for their country.

Proud to be a Canadian.

Sir/Ma'am, you should be proud to be a Canadian. You have managed to say what I wanted to say but with MUCH more grace than I could ever even think up. The officer in question, Mr. Lam, is an absolute hero. While I agree that he should have used the gun IF HE FELT HE NEEDED TO to defend himself (always), to shoot is not always the answer, as the US seems to think.

Well done, Officer Lam.

 

[Woodland]

10 people dead, 14 injured: These are the victims of the Yonge St. van rampage

A great-grandmother. A visitor from Jordan. A mother from Sri Lanka. The Star is working to tell the stories of those killed in the Yonge St. rampage.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...-the-victims-of-the-yonge-st-van-rampage.html

 

[Woodland]

Sir/Ma'am, you should be proud to be a Canadian. You have managed to say what I wanted to say but with MUCH more grace than I could ever even think up. The officer in question, Mr. Lam, is an absolute hero. While I agree that he should have used the gun IF HE FELT HE NEEDED TO to defend himself (always), to shoot is not always the answer, as the US seems to think.

Well done, Officer Lam.

Hey AnaPisces - I am proud and yes Constable Lam would have used his weapon if he thought it necessary - and it's Woodland!

 

[katydid23]

Incel culture is beyond frightening, it's horrifying, and it gets worse by the month. It takes a whole lot for Reddit to ban a group. The Toronto perp is currently being referred to as "St. Alek" on their largest forum (unlinkable here.)

As for the Aspergers angle, I live with two people with Aspergers and just anecdotally, speaking from that experience, I can see how that research linked is valid. With my Aspergers son in particular, empathy wasn't automatic. He had emotions for sure, but they were very centered around himself. It's taken years to get him to understand that other people have those same emotions and even more importantly, teaching him right vs. wrong in tandem with how his actions affect other people. It's still very much a work in progress.
But what about the many Aspergers kids who never got such training? And who still do? Schools can only do so much. If the parents don't care to provide an appropriate home, such a child might grow up awkward, angry and then turn to who knows what as an adult.

It's a terrible tragedy, but all we can do IMO is continue to raise awareness about autism spectrum disorders and hope that more therapies become available to public agencies so that kids won't fall through the cracks so hard. I don't think anyone should be excused after committing a heinous crime, autism or not (ex Dylann Roof; this Toronto guy).

Thank you for this honest but difficult assessment. I know it is hard to discuss these sensitive subjects.

I have read a lot of talk here about schizophrenic/bi-polar people, and how they are NOT more likely to be violent, but are more likely to be victimized. And I don't know, maybe the statistics bare that out?

But my younger brother, rest his soul, was diagnosed with adolescent onset schizophrenia in his late teens. It came out of nowhere. Our family was shocked, as no one we knew of had ever had the same diagnosis.

And my brother LOVED animals and babies and was very intelligent and kind. But to be honest, I did worry that he was going to seriously hurt someone someday because when he was off his meds, his delusions were so out of control. He heard voices, which often told him to do very bad things. And he fought hard against doing them, but he would sometimes make verbal threats to others. Sometimes yo strangers, sometimes to family members. He thought the CIA was after him, wanting to kidnap him and take him to Sudan. He thought Johnny Carson was in on the CIA plot. He even got arrested one time, for going to the live taping and rushing the stage during commercial break.

So if I am being honest, I have to say that his paranoid schizophrenic episodes made it more likely he would hurt someone, given the chance. He was arrested every time he got out of control and was hospitalized and soundly medicated each time. He smashed up a lot of furniture and windows, and such, but was only arrested for misdemeanor assaults for slapping or hitting someone, a few times.

And I have to think that autism can have a similar affect. JMO

 

[Jbor]

No they actually don’t. More often times crimes are committed against people with disabilities. Fact.

replying to the person who said that so many autistic people
cimmit these crimess

 

[Woodland]

No they actually don’t. More often times crimes are committed against people with disabilities. Fact.

replying to the person who said that so many autistic people
cimmit these crimess

Yes Jbor, disability does bring more crime against the disabled - people should read more on this.

AM's disability, if any, is nothing more than a rumor for now but I do appreciate the feedback on how this particular illness affects people.

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