Canada - Numerous pedestrians struck by van near Yonge and Finch, Toronto, Apr 2018 *guilty*

[katydid23]

Not to take anything away from the police officer who showed great composure and courage during this arrest. But I can’t help wondering if he was also worried about the repercussions to him if he discharged his weapon. Likely suspension with pay, full SIU and psb review, condemnation by all the civil libertarians especially if the accused was unarmed, , potentially negative press and impact on his family, potential civil actions, etc. Police have to know that they can and should react with force when reasonably required or justified without having their lives potentially ruined.

There also are plenty of instances when officers use force and it ends very badly. I believe that Lam was very professional. He assessed the situation quickly and accurately. I'm looking forward to hearing an interview with him, where hopefully he will tell us about his thinking process leading to the successful arrest.

Of course it sometimes goes badly. And that is tragic.

But if a man, who has just slaughtered 10 innocent people, is pointing something at the officer, and threatening to shoot, then it is not a 'bad' outcome if that killer is shot for doing so, in my opinion. Better that, then more people being killed by him if that was a weapon or if he did have a suicide vest that he could trigger.

I think we already know his sick and twisted 'thinking process.' He was a big fan of Eliot Rodgers, and he wanted to kill women who were smart enough to avoid him like the plague. There is really nothing left to learn from this coward, in my opinion. Interviewing a like this, is useless, in my opinion.

 

[Snoopster]

Awwww....Ann Marie D'Amico sounds like she was such a sweetheart.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1378760&playlistId=1.3899140&binId=1.810401&playlistPageNum=1&binPageNum=1

 

[CdnCat]

It is obvious that the officer has had crisis intervention training. You could see how he assessed the situation first and took control of it immediately. Also from his viewpoint, he could tell AM didn't have a gun.I also think if variables were different, he wouldn't have hesitated to fire. Most Canadian officers end up getting killed when they don't assess the situation beforehand.

 

[bluesneakers]

‘Proud’ father praises police officer son who arrested Toronto van attack suspect

David Lam, who used to be a police officer in Hong Kong and now owns Top Choice Restaurant in Markham, said he was working at the time of the incident. David said he later got a call from his son to tell him he was OK.

“It’s not a matter of (being a) hero or not, it’s the matter of you’re the policeman. You’re here to do your own job,” David said.

“My son called me (and) told me, ‘Daddy, everything is fine. I arrested the suspect … I didn’t even fire any shots,’” he said.

“I said, ‘You did a good job.’”

 

[JDG]

There also are plenty of instances when officers use force and it ends very badly. I believe that Lam was very professional. He assessed the situation quickly and accurately. I'm looking forward to hearing an interview with him, where hopefully he will tell us about his thinking process leading to the successful arrest.

It should be a very short interview. IMO, he was having a major adrenalin rush and not really thinking.

Its not reasonable to rush towards someone who has just driven down the sidewalk killing people.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Very much agree that Constable Lam accurately assessed the situation - holstering his gun tells me that. He had an opportunity to take this guy into custody and he took it.

Imo, Constable Lam has reset the bar - to where it should be - and I am so grateful to him. Officers in this country will have to think longer and harder now before firing on an unarmed person - the public won't go easy on them otherwise. Yeah!

I think there may have been more seen by him prior to the video starting. He turned off his sirens. And I think he did that for a reason.

 

[bluesneakers]

How Toronto police officers are trained to ‘de-escalate’ active situations

“Our training, at the police college as well, speaks to de-escalation. More people will be dealing with de-escalation than pulling out their firearms in most police agencies in Toronto,” Sauncers explained. “It is a focal point of our training piece.”

He said officers are required to attend a three-day in-service training program — a program that talks about de-escalation and training free from “biased policing.”

“They discuss and look at real-time scenarios, they talk to people that are mental health professionals, professionals that deal with people in crisis.”

“This notion that we shoot first and ask questions later is really not true,” he explained. “In 2016 we had 1166 use of force reports in regards to firearms, and only seven incidents involving armed persons where our officers used their firearms – so that’s less than 0.5 per cent.”

Monday’s outcome is very different from what happened on a Toronto street five years ago.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

It should be a very short interview. IMO, he was having a major adrenalin rush and not really thinking.

Its not reasonable to rush towards someone who has just driven down the sidewalk killing people.

I respectfully disagree. I am sure that Officer Lam realized that AM wasn’t armed because he was close and could see AM. AM was asking to be shot. Lam has been trained, obviously very well, in de-escalation, and used his training and very best judgement in a matter of mere seconds.

When you think about it, the police in the UK do not carry any guns (only special task forces do). I have watched many programs on TV about UK police training, and seen it in action. They are also highly trained in de-escalating confrontations such as this on a daily basis, with excellent outcomes.

The U.S. police training needs to get their act together and follow other countries’ proven methods, IMHO. Police shootings in the U.S. are far too frequent and plentiful. Most are completely unnecessary and more akin to outright murder, in a sense.

I don’t mean to offend anyone. This is solely MOO.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[CARIIS]

katydid23,

Couldn't agree more. He took unnecessary risks. That isn't heroic.

his assessment was correct look at outcomes. There is almost a daily barrage of LE in our country shooting an unarmed 5 ft 8 man 62 times they need retraining

cops in other nations are NOT shooting dozens of bullets into a single suspect

we are out of control

 

[CARIIS]

There were an awful lot of cops there, the place was swarming but many were trying to assist the injured, etc.

I think the police had this guy very quickly and am not sure how many cops were at the 'take down'.

Ive only seen that cell phone video of the take down but Id imagine a dozen or so would be standing just out of view.

In other cases in TO, they seem to pick a 'point man' to de-escalate or confer with the person while the others stand back.

The idea is to get their attention onto one police officer and it worked this time.

What I have seen in the US, they all seem to rush the perp. and jump on them.

But, where the injured and dead people were all over the road, the place was packed with First Responders of all sorts.

Hope that helps.

I have noticed that too. Here when it is breaking cops come roaring park there cars all over the street on sidewalks on medians in the wrong direction total zoo

in europe if you watch they arrive orderly try to keep lanes open so ambulances can get in and out

I went the first time down to pulse like 6 days afterwards the cop cars were still all over the place in every which direction it was unreal sidewalks hills backwards forwards sideways doors open flashers on in daylite looked like total mayhem 6 days later

it astounded me noone was in any of the cars i thought i guess that is why it is still a total wreck here it was nuts

its crazy here !

 

[Jennifer17]

Ok, Cool J,
even though I am sure I will have to dodge the tomatoes thrown in my direction...I disagree that this was a 'perfect' arrest. :tomato:


If this video is used a training video, Canada may lose some officers in the future, by taking dangerous gambles on their own safety.

In my opinion, Officer Lam did not know for sure, at the beginning, if it was a weapon or a cell phone, when the suspect first began pointing it at him. Things could have gone sideways right then and there, and luckily they didn't.

But here is the reaL issue:

"Leuprecht said Lam seemed to go further than some others might have when he decided to approach and arrest the suspect, rather than wait for backup.

“There’s an impressive moment when he takes his firearm, puts it in his holster, he goes over with his baton, and he handcuffs the individual,” he said.

“I think that goes above and beyond the call of duty. He could have had a knife. He could have had a suicide belt.”

However, the university professor, who is currently teaching in Australia, says if the constable had waited for backup, the situation might have escalated and had a different outcome."

http://torontosun.com/news/local-ne...used-textbook-case-of-defusing-danger-experts


I have close family members in Law Enforcement. It pains me to think that they should be expected to take such dangerous gambles like Officer Lam took. In this specific case it worked out well. It turns out the killer was not a hardened terrorist, so he had no other weapons or suicide vets etc.

But Lam could not have known that for certain. He took a chance and now is being lauded for his bravery and his luck. But I do worry that it will make other officers hesitant to use force, in similar situations, and it could end very badly. JMO

He did not take a chance. He evaluated the situation and saw that there was no risk to him and moved on it.

 

[CARIIS]

Seems this guy is socially awkward, has twitches and tics and his mother stated that 'her son' benefitted from some community agency that was being de-funded in 2009 and that 'he has Aspergers'.

There are two young men living with their parents, so we don't know which son she was speaking about.

A neighbour said the father is friendly, the sons are not and never make eye contact.

What do you want to bet that any lawyer he hires goes for NCR? Very scary thought!

I am always amazed at how stories like this usually go person faking to be ill when the reality is the person just smushed a bunch of people with a car

that is not normal

it is not normal to stop by a waffle house naked and murder people

it is not adjusted to be placing bombs all over a city

its aberrant behavior something is clearly wrong

its not like there is this tidal wave of folks not being held responsible for their actions

similiar clusters of problems isolated off awkward kinda like certain kinds of cancers under a microscope look similiar

he tried to Canadian Armed Forces in 2017. but could not pass

how often do we see this failed military attempts often i think it is because military is structured rigid folks around folks suffering with illness in all likely hood suggest this kind of setting for that very reason

he attended handicapped school when younger how many times have we had that in the history often

I remain amazed with all the research on mental illness how unenlightened it seems media remains

why is so hard for them to grasp mental illness is exactly that a illness

its actually strange

it appears as if the only thing the media grasps quickly if it is one of the very few in america that have to do with ISIS

media latches on to that quite quickly despite the fact that it is simple math with an old school calculator

white american young males kill many more americans than anyone else

https://nypost.com/2018/04/24/troubling-details-emerge-about-toronto-attack-suspects-private-life/

simple addition

denial?

 

[Jennifer17]

So many with autism/Asperger's commit these crimes.

n

So many blame Autism/Aspergers after the event.

 

[CARIIS]

here is dad felt bad for him

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/video/canadians-shocked-saddened-by-van-attack-trudeau/vp-AAwi2gp

 

[Jennifer17]

I am always amazed at how stories like this usually go person faking to be ill when the reality is the person just smushed a bunch of people with a car

that is not normal

it is not normal to stop by a waffle house naked and murder people

it is not adjusted to be placing bombs all over a city

its aberrant behavior something is clearly wrong

its not like there is this tidal wave of folks not being held responsible for their actions

similiar clusters of problems isolated off awkward kinda like certain kinds of cancers under a microscope look similiar

he tried to Canadian Armed Forces in 2017. but could not pass

how often do we see this failed military attempts often i think it is because military is structured rigid folks around folks suffering with illness in all likely hood suggest this kind of setting for that very reason

he attended handicapped school when younger how many times have we had that in the history often

I remain amazed with all the research on mental illness how unenlightened it seems media remains

why is so hard for them to grasp mental illness is exactly that a illness

its actually strange

it appears as if the only thing the media grasps quickly if it is one of the very few in america that have to do with ISIS

media latches on to that quite quickly despite the fact that it is simple math with an old school calculator

white american young males kill many more americans than anyone else

https://nypost.com/2018/04/24/troubling-details-emerge-about-toronto-attack-suspects-private-life/

simple addition

denial?

Yes, it is not normal and yes it is mental illness, but what to do about it? And why so much of it?

 

[CARIIS]

I don’t understand how the 3 pedestrians stroll from left to right in the video behind the accused and don’t appear concerned at all by a policeman pointing a gun at the suspect and the back and forth yelling. I sure wouldnt be so nonchalant about the situation if it was me

that blew me away as well

I replayed it to make sure they were that indifferent I should have run like heck!!

and even when they did start to look behind them their response did not hasten right away it was odd

 

[lcid]

BBM
Just jumping off your post Woodland

I would be interested to know if Canada's LE receive similar training as US LE in regards to use of deadly force and officer safety.
I came across an article on CNN that examines how powerful and game-changing Police dash-cams can be as a teaching tool.



This article explains how one particular incident caught on a dashcam has been used over and over again to reinforce how dangerous it can be for LE to interact with the public.

"The Endless Death of Kyle Dinkheller"

Hello.

I think that after Sammy Yatim's death, training for police officers on dealing with mental health crises was implemented. They do not always get it right, but this cop really did.

 

[lcid]

that blew me away as well

I replayed it to make sure they were that indifferent I should have run like heck!!

and even when they did start to look behind them their response did not hasten right away it was odd

I'm from that neighbourhood - North York. I'd also walk on by if I'm honest.

 

[lcid]

Hello all. Joining this thread now that I have the emotional strength to do it.

I am full of anger. I grew up in the part of Toronto where this happened. That's a street I walk a lot. I'm seeing foreign media spin this every way imaginable. I am not seeing enough discussion of the ways in which misogyny kills, too much discussion of Islam, a non-factor when AM is an Armenian Christian. Twitter is a hellscape.

He went to school with my friend and his brother. They confirm what has been said by other people who knew him at Thornlea.

I don't look forward to these developments.

 

[Gardenista]

Hello all. Joining this thread now that I have the emotional strength to do it.

I am full of anger. I grew up in the part of Toronto where this happened. That's a street I walk a lot. I'm seeing foreign media spin this every way imaginable. I am not seeing enough discussion of the ways in which misogyny kills, too much discussion of Islam, a non-factor when AM is an Armenian Christian. Twitter is a hellscape.

He went to school with my friend and his brother. They confirm what has been said by other people who knew him at Thornlea.

I don't look forward to these developments.

When I get angry, I remind myself he has autism and that helps to reduce the anger.