Canada - Numerous pedestrians struck by van near Yonge and Finch, Toronto, Apr 2018 *guilty*

[drama_farmer]

After Toronto attack, online misogynists praise suspect as 'new saint'
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...-misogynists-praise-suspect-new-saint-n868821

:moo:
I knew it wouldn't take long for this response to appear in the media. No doubt there are plenty of people who are angry and violent misogynists in "real life" and therefore, heinous and potentially dangerous.

I also think there are many more "out there" who want to revel in the horror and/or bolster their own online (fake?) persona by jumping on any carnage bandwagon.

These days it seems there's an overwhelming tendency to wave the "US vs THEM" banner, wherever the opportunity arises.

 

[Gardenista]

And so many more with autism/Aspergers don’t ... not sure if that tells us much of anything.

That goes without saying. Seems like the math would be the percentage of mass killers who have it vs those who don't. But my math skills suck, so maybe I'm not thinking about it right.

 

[Bravo]

Well I for one look forward to spending a lovely day at an outdoor café this summer sipping a nice glass of wine and not being afraid. Despite the online angry, violent misogynists

 

[Crosby87]

Man accused of Yonge St. van rampage makes brief court appearance

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/brea...pearance/ar-AAwikkV?li=AAadgLE&ocid=chromentp

 

[drama_farmer]

My deepest condolences to the victims and their families and friends - surely it will be difficult, if not impossible, to come to terms with this senseless act.

As I'm one to unabashedly call out the poor behavior of a cop, I want to express my utmost respect to the officer that made this arrest, now identified as Ken Lam - TPS designation unclear to me at the moment.

Mr Lam did the one thing I wish many officers in the past had done with an unarmed suspect - he took a step back more than once. This was very heroic imo = de-escalation. Mr Lam gained control within 30 seconds or so of this smart move.

This is how it's done and I'm very proud that this Canadian officer showed his city, his province, his country and now beyond that an unarmed suspect need not be shot - what is there to learn if the suspect is dead?

I'm very proud of his actions - leadership under the most stressful and fluid moments one can imagine, and a moment most will never find themselves in.

Hoping Mr Lam will be put in charge of all officer training in Canada. This would be the thing to do, eh?

BBM
Just jumping off your post Woodland

I would be interested to know if Canada's LE receive similar training as US LE in regards to use of deadly force and officer safety.
I came across an article on CNN that examines how powerful and game-changing Police dash-cams can be as a teaching tool.

[FONT=&quot]If you want to know why cops shoot people, you can find one of many answers in those three minutes on Whipples Crossing Road. There, on January 12, 1998, Deputy Kyle Dinkheller of the Laurens County Sheriff’s Office made the final traffic stop of his brief career.[/FONT]

This article explains how one particular incident caught on a dashcam has been used over and over again to reinforce how dangerous it can be for LE to interact with the public.

"The Endless Death of Kyle Dinkheller"

 

[drama_farmer]

Well I for one look forward to spending a lovely day at an outdoor café this summer sipping a nice glass of wine and not being afraid. Despite the online angry, violent misogynists

I'll be right there with you, with bells on (in spirit, of course!)
:loveyou:

 

[Woodland]

BBM
Just jumping off your post Woodland

I would be interested to know if Canada's LE receive similar training as US LE in regards to use of deadly force and officer safety.
I came across an article on CNN that examines how powerful and game-changing Police dash-cams can be as a teaching tool.



This article explains how one particular incident caught on a dashcam has been used over and over again to reinforce how dangerous it can be for LE to interact with the public.

"The Endless Death of Kyle Dinkheller"

Fwiw, I fear Canada following the US where LE training is concerned - imo it explains what I see as an 'us vs them' mentality that has no place in Canadian society. It flies in the face of a peaceful and respectful existence imo.

Also imo, playing this video for years on end 'teaches' LE to be afraid of anyone and everyone - the US can have that if a majority agree it's useful.

There is no comparison between an armed suspect threatening an officer (or anyone else) and an unarmed suspect, regardless of how the unarmed suspect is behaving. Constable Ken Lam's interaction with this suspect was caught on video - hoping it will be played over and over to LE trainees for decades to come.

 

[Bravo]

I'll be right there with you, with bells on (in spirit, of course!)
:loveyou:

:toastred:

 

[musicaljoke]

Which do you think is the case here? Both were one time events, with no record of previous violence.

I don't know the answer, but I have a certain measure of confidence that our justice system will determine whether or not he suffered a mental breakdown.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

During the media events there have been so many questions they have answered. One question that I have, that has never been asked, is why was there only one officer there responding? Was that planned? Was that a strategy of the police in responding?

 

[JDG]

Seems this guy is socially awkward, has twitches and tics and his mother stated that 'her son' benefitted from some community agency that was being de-funded in 2009 and that 'he has Aspergers'.

There are two young men living with their parents, so we don't know which son she was speaking about.

A neighbour said the father is friendly, the sons are not and never make eye contact.

What do you want to bet that any lawyer he hires goes for NCR? Very scary thought!

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Seems this guy is socially awkward, has twitches and tics and his mother stated that 'her son' benefitted from some community agency that was being de-funded in 2009 and that 'he has Aspergers'.

There are two young men living with their parents, so we don't know which son she was speaking about.

A neighbour said the father is friendly, the sons are not and never make eye contact.

What do you want to bet that any lawyer he hires goes for NCR? Very scary thought!

What is NCR?

 

[JDG]

During the media events there have been so many questions they have answered. One question that I have, that has never been asked, is why was there only one officer there responding? Was that planned? Was that a strategy of the police in responding?

There were an awful lot of cops there, the place was swarming but many were trying to assist the injured, etc.

I think the police had this guy very quickly and am not sure how many cops were at the 'take down'.

Ive only seen that cell phone video of the take down but Id imagine a dozen or so would be standing just out of view.

In other cases in TO, they seem to pick a 'point man' to de-escalate or confer with the person while the others stand back.

The idea is to get their attention onto one police officer and it worked this time.

What I have seen in the US, they all seem to rush the perp. and jump on them.

But, where the injured and dead people were all over the road, the place was packed with First Responders of all sorts.

Hope that helps.

 

[TLC4645]

What is NCR?

Not criminally responsible

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[JDG]

What is NCR?

Not Criminally Responsible.

Then, they are sent to a secured mental facility and reassessed every so often.

 

[ldlager]

I don't know the answer, but I have a certain measure of confidence that our justice system will determine whether or not he suffered a mental breakdown.

Like you I too only have a certain measure of confidence.

 

[katydid23]

Not to take anything away from the police officer who showed great composure and courage during this arrest. But I can’t help wondering if he was also worried about the repercussions to him if he discharged his weapon. Likely suspension with pay, full SIU and psb review, condemnation by all the civil libertarians especially if the accused was unarmed, , potentially negative press and impact on his family, potential civil actions, etc. Police have to know that they can and should react with force when reasonably required or justified without having their lives potentially ruined.

No he wasn’t worried. He was laser focused. True professional. He let his training take over...... is my life or anyone else’s life in immediate danger? ..No...Ok no need to shoot.
The suspect was disarmed when he left the van. By that I mean his weapon, was the van. No longer a threat.
Again, true professional. Very well trained.

Ok, Cool J,
even though I am sure I will have to dodge the tomatoes thrown in my direction...I disagree that this was a 'perfect' arrest. :tomato:


If this video is used a training video, Canada may lose some officers in the future, by taking dangerous gambles on their own safety.

In my opinion, Officer Lam did not know for sure, at the beginning, if it was a weapon or a cell phone, when the suspect first began pointing it at him. Things could have gone sideways right then and there, and luckily they didn't.

But here is the reaL issue:

"Leuprecht said Lam seemed to go further than some others might have when he decided to approach and arrest the suspect, rather than wait for backup.

“There’s an impressive moment when he takes his firearm, puts it in his holster, he goes over with his baton, and he handcuffs the individual,” he said.

“I think that goes above and beyond the call of duty. He could have had a knife. He could have had a suicide belt.”

However, the university professor, who is currently teaching in Australia, says if the constable had waited for backup, the situation might have escalated and had a different outcome."

http://torontosun.com/news/local-ne...used-textbook-case-of-defusing-danger-experts


I have close family members in Law Enforcement. It pains me to think that they should be expected to take such dangerous gambles like Officer Lam took. In this specific case it worked out well. It turns out the killer was not a hardened terrorist, so he had no other weapons or suicide vets etc.

But Lam could not have known that for certain. He took a chance and now is being lauded for his bravery and his luck. But I do worry that it will make other officers hesitant to use force, in similar situations, and it could end very badly. JMO

 

[JDG]

katydid23,

Couldn't agree more. He took unnecessary risks. That isn't heroic.

 

[musicaljoke]

Ok, Cool J,
even though I am sure I will have to dodge the tomatoes thrown in my direction...I disagree that this was a 'perfect' arrest. :tomato:


If this video is used a training video, Canada may lose some officers in the future, by taking dangerous gambles on their own safety.

In my opinion, Officer Lam did not know for sure, at the beginning, if it was a weapon or a cell phone, when the suspect first began pointing it at him. Things could have gone sideways right then and there, and luckily they didn't.

But here is the reaL issue:

"Leuprecht said Lam seemed to go further than some others might have when he decided to approach and arrest the suspect, rather than wait for backup.

“There’s an impressive moment when he takes his firearm, puts it in his holster, he goes over with his baton, and he handcuffs the individual,” he said.

“I think that goes above and beyond the call of duty. He could have had a knife. He could have had a suicide belt.”

However, the university professor, who is currently teaching in Australia, says if the constable had waited for backup, the situation might have escalated and had a different outcome."

http://torontosun.com/news/local-ne...used-textbook-case-of-defusing-danger-experts


I have close family members in Law Enforcement. It pains me to think that they should be expected to take such dangerous gambles like Officer Lam took. In this specific case it worked out well. It turns out the killer was not a hardened terrorist, so he had no other weapons or suicide vets etc.

But Lam could not have known that for certain. He took a chance and now is being lauded for his bravery and his luck. But I do worry that it will make other officers hesitant to use force, in similar situations, and it could end very badly. JMO

There also are plenty of instances when officers use force and it ends very badly. I believe that Lam was very professional. He assessed the situation quickly and accurately. I'm looking forward to hearing an interview with him, where hopefully he will tell us about his thinking process leading to the successful arrest.

 

[Woodland]

There also are plenty of instances when officers use force and it ends very badly. I believe that Lam was very professional. He assessed the situation quickly and accurately. I'm looking forward to hearing an interview with him, where hopefully he will tell us about his thinking process leading to the successful arrest.

Very much agree that Constable Lam accurately assessed the situation - holstering his gun tells me that. He had an opportunity to take this guy into custody and he took it.

Imo, Constable Lam has reset the bar - to where it should be - and I am so grateful to him. Officers in this country will have to think longer and harder now before firing on an unarmed person - the public won't go easy on them otherwise. Yeah!