GUILTY Canada - Shannon Burgess, 25, Calgary, 26 Nov 2014 - #4 *Arrest*

[dennisfedak81]

One area that has not been explored in any depth is the couples involvement with substances. Although I have no way to substantiate this, I heard a rumor the suspect recently became involved with meth. I know this does not make someone a killer, however could have there been some dynamic related to this or another powerful substance that played out?

I'm sure any known substance related issues will come out in court and I am eagerly waiting to see if there is any relationship to this tragedy.

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[Kavya01]

You can save your breath. Victims here are turned into saints immediately. No matter what they ever did wrong, they are forgiven and all sort of excuses are given.

And the killers are immediately de-humanized and thrown into a narcissistic/psychopath box.

And not that it matters, but I find the husband attractive. I don't see their attractiveness levels to be too far apart, strictly speaking from a physical point of view.

As to personalities - well, other than the obvious here -, I hate "bubbly, sparkly" women. They are loud, tiresome and extremely self involved.

So don't rush into thinking she married down.

Victims don't have a breath any longer. We still do. And where victims got destroyed into forever silence, no matter who they used to be or how, we can still speak up.
Killers get vilified because violence should NEVER be an option. NEVER. Normally functioning adults should have learned to handle their frustration and impulse control.

JMVHO

Suspect not "killer" to correct your statement. Regardless, there is no need to make more of this case than it is... No need to create a future for the victim that is unwarranted and sensationalistic.

I used "killers" in response to Lulu14 's post. Not in regards to any possible suspect in this case.
And we none of us know how grand a life still could have been for anyone, whose life gets cut off senselessly. All those years - that a victim's family and the world at large never get to find out about.

After that, anyone to have been proved to cause that, who did not walk away but instead, perpetrated such violence, should lose their right to a splendid future as well.

My very honest opinion, though not so humble, I realize.

Kav

 

[evafiore]

I used "killers" in response to Lulu14 's post. Not in regards to any possible suspect in this case.
And we none of us know how grand a life still could have been for anyone, whose life gets cut off senselessly. All those years - that a victim's family and the world at large never get to find out about.

After that, anyone to have been proved to cause that, who did not walk away but instead, perpetrated such violence, should lose their right to a splendid future as well.

My very honest opinion, though not so humble, I realize.

Kav

Indeed. When it has been proven who and what caused Shannon's life to be cut off, and under what terms, then I will express my judgment. Until then, sanctifying victims and vilifying the accused is unjust.

 

[pappa rob]

You can save your breath. Victims here are turned into saints immediately. No matter what they ever did wrong, they are forgiven and all sort of excuses are given.

And the killers are immediately de-humanized and thrown into a narcissistic/psychopath box.

And not that it matters, but I find the husband attractive. I don't see their attractiveness levels to be too far apart, strictly speaking from a physical point of view.

As to personalities - well, other than the obvious here -, I hate "bubbly, sparkly" women. They are loud, tiresome and extremely self involved.

So don't rush into thinking she married down.

That may be so. I find it a very crude way of understanding humans and human relations, be them the most violent possible. You (a general you) turn both parties into black-or-white marionettes that are a caricature of their personalities. It serves to absolutely nothing in understanding the whys, which is why I am here.

Being a victim or a murdered doesn't deny someone's complexity or life. Bad people get killed. Normal or even good people sometimes kill.

I find that "good people" don't kill, maybe a mostly good person might. A good person might do that in self defense, or to protect another. Cold blooded murder isn't something a good or normal person does. I've also found that it's really hard to understand any thing that you "hate". I don't vilify the ones who commit crimes, nor do I think that the victims are saints. The victims I'll cut them some slack because they didn't do any thing that justified their demise, that kind of guilt only belongs to the perpetrator. However complex the victims life was, that crime they're innocent of. MOO

 

[Satchie]

I happened to recently view this video of a man in Victoria, a military vet who once rescued a child from drowning, who's been convicted of murdering his wife. It raises that question about what is a good person vs a bad person. He's certainly extremely contrite, which is perhaps the key component.

http://www.cheknews.ca/disturbing-video-saanich-senior-who-killed-his-wife-105135/

 

[Canadianmom2three]

I happened to recently view this video of a man in Victoria, a military vet who once rescued a child from drowning, who's been convicted of murdering his wife. It raises that question about what is a good person vs a bad person. He's certainly extremely contrite, which is perhaps the key component.

http://www.cheknews.ca/disturbing-video-saanich-senior-who-killed-his-wife-105135/

I find this very interesting. I too find it weird, even in my own life when someone dies, no matter how etc, they are made out to be a Saint, all mistakes rarely talked about and how great they were put front and center.

For me I take it on a case by case basis. Using the facts, and my ability to 'read' a person, I make my own judgments on what I think of a person, the victim or suspect(s). I don't think there is 1 model that every case fits into.

I have my own feelings and views on this case, but regardless I do feel that even 'bad' people have some good and 'good' people have some bad. It's part of being human.

 

[elsietatou]

QUOTE Lulu14 "You can save your breath. Victims here are turned into saints immediately. No matter what they ever did wrong, they are forgiven and all sort of excuses are given.*And the killers are immediately de-humanized and thrown into a narcissistic/psychopath box.And not that it matters, but I find the husband attractive. I don't see their attractiveness levels to be too far apart, strictly speaking from a physical point of view.*As to personalities - well, other than the obvious here -, I hate "bubbly, sparkly" women. They are loud, tiresome and extremely self involved.So don't rush into thinking she married down."



^
Its not about turning victims into saints, its about showing a bit of decency and respect for someone whos life has been tragically cut short, in horrendous circumstances, through the violent hand of another.
You hate 'sparkly, bubbly', I hate 'violent, controlling'.




*My aplogies Otto, I now understand where you were comming from..

 

[elsietatou]

And by a bit of respect I mean not referring to the victim as 'loud, tiresome and self involved', (wow, she had it comming), while noting how pleasant you find the suspect in appearance!

I dont care how flawed or imperfect a victim of violent crime, they deserve our respect and sympathy!

 

[elsietatou]

FYI
I guenuinely find Shannon charming and charasmatic in the vids Ive watched with her. Cant say the same for JB as Im naturally and uncontrollably repulsed by men I suspect of having bullied or acted aggresively. violently toward another weaker/defensless human or creature.
I dont speculate JB is a psychopath, I imagine hes your average garden variety , probably needy, immature, throws a tantrum when he doesnt get his way.

 

[MistyM]

we don't know the whole story until the case comes to trial. yes, he could be a raving lunatic, or they could have gotten into a fight and a typically nice guy may have accidentally mortally injured his wife, panicked and hid her. although after reading accounts of the family spokesperson who spent a lot of time with JB during the last 8 months he was flabbergasted at how 'normal' JB acted, which i find a bit discomforting, but i won't judge... there are several reasons why people might behave this way, from disassociation to sociopathy. we don't know.

as for shannon, we don't know her personally. but i don't think it's immortalizing an angel to say nice things about her, it's more about respect for the dead. i've read rumors she was an escort, other's have heard JB was into meth. i'm not going to believe any of that until i hear proof.

no one is perfect, i know this will probably get a lot of groans, but i didn't find shannon a 'great' actress, but she seemed like a lovely person and was probably very intelligent and funny. i also found JB unattractive but maybe he isn't photogenic. in the end though, i still feel so incredibly bad for shannon, and am very very sad it turned out this way. as for JB, i don't know his personality, his mental health, his logic... i reserve the right to wait on an opinion during the case. which i hope answers questions. i honestly believe he eventually broke down and confessed personally, but that is my own opinion.

things may have been very tense in the household. accidents happen, people panic. people also are evil and kill out of spite or jealousy. in time we will hopefully have some answers. in the meantime i'm just going to try to keep updated and an open mind.

 

[evafiore]

we don't know the whole story until the case comes to trial. yes, he could be a raving lunatic, or they could have gotten into a fight and a typically nice guy may have accidentally mortally injured his wife, panicked and hid her. although after reading accounts of the family spokesperson who spent a lot of time with JB during the last 8 months he was flabbergasted at how 'normal' JB acted, which i find a bit discomforting, but i won't judge... there are several reasons why people might behave this way, from disassociation to sociopathy. we don't know.

as for shannon, we don't know her personally. but i don't think it's immortalizing an angel to say nice things about her, it's more about respect for the dead. i've read rumors she was an escort, other's have heard JB was into meth. i'm not going to believe any of that until i hear proof.

no one is perfect, i know this will probably get a lot of groans, but i didn't find shannon a 'great' actress, but she seemed like a lovely person and was probably very intelligent and funny. i also found JB unattractive but maybe he isn't photogenic. in the end though, i still feel so incredibly bad for shannon, and am very very sad it turned out this way. as for JB, i don't know his personality, his mental health, his logic... i reserve the right to wait on an opinion during the case. which i hope answers questions. i honestly believe he eventually broke down and confessed personally, but that is my own opinion.

things may have been very tense in the household. accidents happen, people panic. people also are evil and kill out of spite or jealousy. in time we will hopefully have some answers. in the meantime i'm just going to try to keep updated and an open mind.

Agreed. Well said, Misty!

 

[elsietatou]

Agree Misty. While we can make assumptions or speculate we just don't know. Jb could very well be a sociopath, alternatively he may have been dealing with extenuating circumstances, eg. mental illness, if meth was involved that could have been a significant trigger. However to suggest, as someone did up thread, that we are ALL capable of murder, that we all have evil inside of us and that we should therefore show compassion and understanding for JB, is to suggest he was just some type of victim of circumstance. I don't agree that we are all capable of hands-on murder for starters, unless by some rare and unfortunate accident. Some people are evil, some people are just predisposed to violence and poor impulse control and some people value and respect personal boundries and ones right to exist free from harm...or just exist as the case may be.
To treat Jb with suspicion and cynicism after he's been found to have been concealing a body at home for the last few months isn't to demonise or. dehumanise and to focus on some kind of fault with Shannon to somehow justify his behaviour is nothing short of victim blaming.
Shannon's habits and activities may have been relevant to her missing persons status and locating her but now that she has been found to be deceased I don't really see the significance of these types of rumours, (escorting, drug use etc). Not chiding anyone for mentioning them because unfortunately these are the types of issues that may be raised in JBs defence, I just don't believe they are necessary or relevant.

 

[otto]

Sure, but that in no means she was on the cusp of a major career breakout. A "role" can mean anything... even one line. The point I am trying to make, is that it is important that certain facts not be sensationalized.

I see you are providing the flipside in the debate that the victim is turned into an angel.

Is it sensationalizing information when nothing more than the facts are presented? In my opinion, her career was taking off. She was the voice for an audio book series, she was selected for a weekend long international film competition role, and she made the short list for a TV series role. That much we know for sure, and there may be many more successes that we don't know. That speaks of career success to me, but naturally, it's possible to hold the opinion that her career was deadend and all of the successes she had in her two year career pursuit are meaningless.

Personally, I see no reason to take a negative view of her career. It had nothing to do with her murder.

 

[otto]

Suspect not "killer" to correct your statement. Regardless, there is no need to make more of this case than it is... No need to create a future for the victim that is unwarranted and sensationalistic.

There's no reason to view her career successes as mundane and unremarkable.

 

[otto]

Indeed. When it has been proven who and what caused Shannon's life to be cut off, and under what terms, then I will express my judgment. Until then, sanctifying victims and vilifying the accused is unjust.

We know that Shannon was successful in her career. That cannot be disputed. We know that the man she married is an abnormal man because not only did he murder her (that is clearly abnormal), but he kept her body in their home for seven months (that is clearly abnormal). He would have kept her longer if he could (that is clearly abnormal), but fortunately police intervened. I think he's a whack job for keeping a dead body in his house. Imagine the smell! He lived with the smell of rotting flesh for months. That's really twisted ... and that's my opinion. To view Josh; who does such strange things as willingly breathing rotting human flesh for seven months, as seriously mentally deranged is not vilifying him, it's simply looking at was is socially acceptable, and what is waaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy out there.

 

[MistyM]

do you really think the house smelled of rotting flesh? that would be very hard to hide, and i have no doubt her family had come in a few times to collect some important things that belonged to her, as well as JB having company or friends over (it would be quite obvious if he allowed no one in the house all the time she was missing). she was 'concealed'. so she may have been in a freezer, buried or who knows what in or out of that house, but i don't think he just let her decompose and lived with the odor. my opinion on this.

 

[otto]

do you really think the house smelled of rotting flesh? that would be very hard to hide, and i have no doubt her family had come in a few times to collect some important things that belonged to her, as well as JB having company or friends over (it would be quite obvious if he allowed no one in the house all the time she was missing). she was 'concealed'. so she may have been in a freezer, buried or who knows what in or out of that house, but i don't think he just let her decompose and lived with the odor. my opinion on this.

What do you think! The ground was frozen from November, when Shannon was last seen, until March or April. She was not in the ground during that time, so she was rotting in their townhouse. The temperatures were above freezing in Calgary after March or April. The body was discovered in July! I don't think it matters how well he hid the body, the body will rot and there's no other possibility. First the body bloats from natural gasses, and then who knows what happens, but it has to be ugly.

How likely is it that a couple with no children living in a rented, subsidized townhouse own a freezer? I'd say: not likely. However, let's suppose the couple had a freezer. Josh would go to the freezer to get some meat and a loaf of bread, smile at his wife, and go back to every day stuff like getting stoned, playing games, hooking up with women at the 7-11, and going to work. Is that normal?

There is absolutely no possibility that what Josh did with Shannon is even remotely normal. I highly doubt that they had a freezer. Shannon could not be buried in Nov/Dec, so he lived with her corpse for months. The man is a complete freak.

And ... there's absolutely no reason to believe that he allowed her family in the townhouse after he murdered her. He did not allow the police in the house after the one occasion where they were in the townhouse immediately after her murder.

 

[otto]

Here are the temperatures for November 2014, when Shannon was last seen. At the very least, he had her in their townhouse for a couple of weeks before he could dig a hole an bury her ... and then we know that the hole was not six feet deep, which is required to ensure that animals don't dig, so who is to say that it didn't stink in that area by the back door? What Josh did with Shannon is sickening ... and I don't believe for a moment that "everyone is capable of murder", therefore maybe he's just one of those people that was pushed to the point where he accidentally committed murder.

Suggesting that "everyone is capable of committing murder" is an attempt to neutralize what Josh did, to humanize him and excuse him for this barbaric murder. Josh is capable of committing murder, and that puts him in a category separate from everyone else, not the same as everyone else.

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

Suggesting that "everyone is capable of committing murder" is an attempt to neutralize what Josh did, to humanize him and excuse him for this barbaric murder. Josh is capable of committing murder, and that puts him in a category separate from everyone else, not the same as everyone else.

I couldn't agree more. I don't for a minute believe that all of us are capable of murder, that's a crock. Speaking for myself I can't even kill a spider or bug because I respect all living creatures (insects/animals/humans), so there is no way I could ever kill a human being. I've been in very difficult situations in my life, including living with a malicious, psychotic, philandering ex husband - who made my life a living hell for many years........and through the hell there was never a time that I wished him dead or wanted to hurt him, though he surely would have deserved it.

I feel it's a huge slap in the face to victims of murder to make a blanket statement that all of us could kill if in right situation, thereby making a murderer's actions somewhat less selfish and horrific and vile.

Frankly I am astounded by some of the comments in this thread, against Shannon and in many ways defending the man who has been accused of her murder, who we know full well had her body in their home/on their property for a whopping 7 months...........who stood there at the initial family press conference, beside Shannon's own mother who was surely out of her mind with fear and worry and sadness, knowing full well her daughter was there in their shared home, dead as a doornail.

 

[Kavya01]

I couldn't agree more. I don't for a minute believe that all of us are capable of murder, that's a crock. Speaking for myself I can't even kill a spider or bug because I respect all living creatures (insects/animals/humans), so there is no way I could ever kill a human being. I've been in very difficult situations in my life, including living with a malicious, psychotic, philandering ex husband - who made my life a living hell for many years........and through the hell there was never a time that I wished him dead or wanted to hurt him, though he surely would have deserved it.

I feel it's a huge slap in the face to victims of murder to make a blanket statement that all of us could kill if in right situation, thereby making a murderer's actions somewhat less selfish and horrific and vile.

Frankly I am astounded by some of the comments in this thread, against Shannon and in many ways defending the man who has been accused of her murder, who we know full well had her body in their home/on their property for a whopping 7 months...........who stood there at the initial family press conference, beside Shannon's own mother who was surely out of her mind with fear and worry and sadness, knowing full well her daughter was there in their shared home, dead as a doornail.

:tyou: