CANADA - shooter in RCMP vehicle & uniform, 22 killed (plus perp), Portapique, NS, 18 April 2020 #2

[brickroad]

New details emerge about mass shooting

Updates about the morning after, frustration and calls for an inquiry.

 

[Oscarjackson12]

So now she ran to a house vs a gas station. That likely makes more sense.

I am sure an inquiry will be held but it will not be for quite a while and yes the RCMP has to complete their own investigation first.

 

[MistyWaters]

So now she ran to a house vs a gas station. That likely makes more sense.

I am sure an inquiry will be held but it will not be for quite a while and yes the RCMP has to complete their own investigation first.

Yes it makes much more sense. The homeowner then called 911.

Inquiries in Canada do not find fault nor lay blame, however they offer recommendations for the future. But I would really hope the RCMP and lawmakers have the ability to recognize any key changes to procedures or ways of strengthening existing standards quickly in order to mitigate happenings such as this in the future without the need for a long drawn out inquiry with recommendations, which are not binding anyway. JMO

“Commissions of Inquiry are established by the Governor in Council (Cabinet) to fully and impartially investigate issues of national importance.

Led by distinguished individuals, experts or judges, Commissions of Inquiry have the power to subpoena witnesses, take evidence under oath and request documents.

A Commission of Inquiry's findings and recommendations are not binding. However, many have a significant impact on public opinion and the shape of public policy.....”
Commissions of inquiry - Canada.ca

 

[Oscarjackson12]

Yes it makes much more sense. The homeowner then called 911.

Inquiries in Canada do not find fault nor lay blame, however they offer recommendations for the future. But I would really hope the RCMP and lawmakers have the ability to recognize any key changes to procedures or ways of strengthening existing standards quickly in order to mitigate happenings such as this in the future without the need for a long drawn out inquiry with recommendations, which are not binding anyway. JMO

“Commissions of Inquiry are established by the Governor in Council (Cabinet) to fully and impartially investigate issues of national importance.

Led by distinguished individuals, experts or judges, Commissions of Inquiry have the power to subpoena witnesses, take evidence under oath and request documents.

A Commission of Inquiry's findings and recommendations are not binding. However, many have a significant impact on public opinion and the shape of public policy.....”
Commissions of inquiry - Canada.ca

Yes they make recommendations. They had an inquiry for the Moncton shooter didn’t they?

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes they make recommendations. They had an inquiry for the Moncton shooter didn’t they?

Yes, iirc one of the recommendation that came from the inquiry was police in NB required updated guns and additional training. If so, I suppose that’s sort of my point. An inquiry was required to determine that?

I can’t find the link but otherwise the percentage of recommendations made by public inquiries in general which were actually carried through iirc is dismally low. But for some reason the general public still seems to eagerly welcome public inquiries although I’ve never quite figured out why. Maybe it’s due to the title - “public inquiry”....giving people the impression we have a say. JMO

 

[Marp]

By reading accounts of the negative interactions it’s easy to get the impression GW might’ve been somewhat of a raging lunatic 24/7 that everyone knew to avoid. What made him dangerous, but probably kept him on the right side of the law, was the ability to present different faucets of his personality to different people at different times, perhaps the reason he and his common law spouse were invited to the party. JMO

“A former client at his clinic, who asked that her name not be used, recalled that Wortman and his common-law partner who worked with him were jovial and easy-going together when she received new dentures from him in September.

“He was nuts; I mean that in a good way,” she said. “We were carrying on back and forth like we knew each other our whole lives.

“They seemed to get along fine, bantering with each other like you would with your good friends. They seemed like very nice people together, very happy people.”

The woman said it was the friendly atmosphere at the clinic that made her visit so memorable, and the joking between them that eased the burden of what could have been an uncomfortable procedure.

“She said, ‘He gets all the thanks and all the hugs, and I do all the work.’ So I asked her if she wanted a hug, and I gave her a hug,” the former client said.

“I’m stunned here, to tell you the truth. It’s often the last person you’d think of, but they always say that after something like this.”....”
Those who knew Gabriel Wortman stunned by news of shooting spree | The Guardian

Given the many references to alcohol abuse and the good behaviour he exhibited at his work place can we speculate that he was a functioning alcoholic during the week and went off the rails with his drinking on weekends or during pandemics?

From personal observation, it’s very difficult for an enabler to leave an alcoholic relationship. The partner can be gaslit to think the alcoholic or substance abuser is normal and that the enabler is the crazy one. And on sober days life is wonderful.

This doesn’t explain why he finally cracked but more why she stayed.

 

[Oscarjackson12]

Yes, iirc one of the recommendation that came from the inquiry was police in NB required updated guns and additional training. If so, I suppose that’s sort of my point. An inquiry was required to determine that?

I can’t find the link but otherwise the percentage of recommendations made by public inquiries in general which were actually carried through iirc is dismally low. But for some reason the general public still seems to eagerly welcome public inquiries although I’ve never quite figured out why. Maybe it’s due to the title - “public inquiry”....giving people the impression we have a say. JMO

Canada loves their inquiries. I think Moncton didn’t have a open to the public inquiry but an outside group. Most of the recommendations haven’t been followed though. At least I think I read that.

 

[Oscarjackson12]

Given the many references to alcohol abuse and the good behaviour he exhibited at his work place can we speculate that he was a functioning alcoholic during the week and went off the rails with his drinking on weekends or during pandemics?

From personal observation, it’s very difficult for an enabler to leave an alcoholic relationship. The partner can be gaslit to think the alcoholic or substance abuser is normal and that the enabler is the crazy one. And on sober days life is wonderful.

This doesn’t explain why he finally cracked but more why she stayed.

Yeah but the people interviewed at least in the early days likely had no experience with the darker side, I bet once everything is out in the open you will see a man unravelling. She probably stayed because she knew he’d kill her if she left. It really causes a lot of damage to the victim.

 

[Amoca]

At around 7:00 in the recorded interview linked above, the woman talks about how GW came 'pounding' at her door one night, with his gf in tow, accusing this woman of spreading lies around town and to his gf that he was screwing around on the gf; the woman said to him, 'if the shoe fits, wear it'. She stated he then pushed his gf out the door and threatened the woman by telling her 'you're going to pay for this'. She said this was followed by a few instances of GW driving to her house, getting out of his car and just staring at her house for a half hour each time.

I'm not sure at which point all of the above occurred in relation to the other incidents she mentioned, but I would've thought that in itself might be reason enough to call police. And if she had, and since she had witnessed it first-hand, surely police would have had to follow it up with GW. And not to mention the stalking behaviour, which she said scared her. I guess I find it odd that apparently she did not report that incident?

I thought the woman was a little sketchy sounding.
She opens her door at night to someone she terms "A psychopath" knowing he beats up his women, knowing he has illegal firearms, knowing he's an alcoholic. I wouldn't.
The fact she sold her house, moved away, and never warned the new owners is just awful. The guilt...

The first bold sentence is talking about when GW passed through Truro mid-morning on Sunday. I don't think it is inconsistent with the 2nd bold sentence. RCMP knew from the time the first officer arrived at the scene that multiple people were dead and houses were on fire. They knew they were 4 children hiding. So it'd seem good practice to alert the hospital that they may be sending casualties, for the hospital to lockdown during a major crime/incident, and for local police to be asked to secure the hospital. From my experience, its common for hospitals in New England to go into lockdown when there is an incident on campus or they are informed of a possible threat. Even to keep media out or curiosity seekers out while they deal with the incident and get a handle on what's going on. JMO.

This just DOESN'T happen here. It simply isn't in our thoughts, as Maritimers. We welcome people, we are kind, hospitable. No one murders anyone, with some few exceptions!
The innocence we've lost has been immense. Immense. And there's just so little info. He's dead but everyone's still afraid. Unless you currently live in those small communities, there's just no info to be had. I live the next county over, and while I know where he went, and that 13 died in Portapique from 2 small roads, more in Debert, Wentworth, and Shubenacadie and his route and times, it's about all I know. The victims families are being pretty tight lipped. I live on a tiny road too, unless you come up the driveway, I've no idea what's going on. Especially in a pandemic, where we've been locked inside for 2 months.

I may have completely messed this up, this is a new forum and I can't see everything, it may be multiquotes or...?.

I'm going to go to the memorial sites, perhaps this weekend. I need to see for myself where things transpired.

 

[Amoca]

Given the many references to alcohol abuse and the good behaviour he exhibited at his work place can we speculate that he was a functioning alcoholic during the week and went off the rails with his drinking on weekends or during pandemics?

From personal observation, it’s very difficult for an enabler to leave an alcoholic relationship. The partner can be gaslit to think the alcoholic or substance abuser is normal and that the enabler is the crazy one. And on sober days life is wonderful.

This doesn’t explain why he finally cracked but more why she stayed.

I'm going with yes, he was probably a functioning alcoholic. I worked in recovery. Being in her shoes would not have been pretty, poor thing. As a spouse, you're dealing with a walking bomb, especially in this difficult quarantine hell we're in. Hope she gets help. Tragic all around.

 

[Oscarjackson12]

I thought the woman was a little sketchy sounding.
She opens her door at night to someone she terms "A psychopath" knowing he beats up his women, knowing he has illegal firearms, knowing he's an alcoholic. I wouldn't.
The fact she sold her house, moved away, and never warned the new owners is just awful. The guilt...



This just DOESN'T happen here. It simply isn't in our thoughts, as Maritimers. We welcome people, we are kind, hospitable. No one murders anyone, with some few exceptions!
The innocence we've lost has been immense. Immense. And there's just so little info. He's dead but everyone's still afraid. Unless you currently live in those small communities, there's just no info to be had. I live the next county over, and while I know where he went, and that 13 died in Portapique from 2 small roads, more in Debert, Wentworth, and Shubenacadie and his route and times, it's about all I know. The victims families are being pretty tight lipped. I live on a tiny road too, unless you come up the driveway, I've no idea what's going on. Especially in a pandemic, where we've been locked inside for 2 months.

I may have completely messed this up, this is a new forum and I can't see everything, it may be multiquotes or...?.

I'm going to go to the memorial sites, perhaps this weekend. I need to see for myself where things transpired.

iIf it happened in my city it would be devastating to me too. It was a huge shock when a guy walked into his former workplace and began shooting and killed people in Ottawa where I live. It’s really a horrible thing that happened. The RCMP have a huge investigation but you will have answers. It’s hard when you don’t. These things are rare though thankfully.

 

[Amoca]

iIf it happened in my city it would be devastating to me too. It was a huge shock when a guy walked into his former workplace and began shooting and killed people in Ottawa where I live. It’s really a horrible thing that happened. The RCMP have a huge investigation but you will have answers. It’s hard when you don’t. These things are rare though thankfully.

I didn't like how I referenced Mrs. Forbes. The details were sketchy.
We're so rural in general, our entire province contains 1,000,000, most are in the city of Halifax/Dartmouth. Portapique has about 100 people, everyone probably knows everyone's business. So, you'd feel pulled to kind of go with the crowd perhaps? I'd personally hope if a man's strangling his wife, someone would bloody well call the RCMP. But that's not for me to judge, I wasn't there. He may have terrorized his entire community for many years, we just don't know. Apparently drove Ms Forbes out of the community. Hopefully those missing details will come out down the road.

 

[Oscarjackson12]

I didn't like how I referenced Mrs. Forbes. The details were sketchy.
We're so rural in general, our entire province contains 1,000,000, most are in the city of Halifax/Dartmouth. Portapique has about 100 people, everyone probably knows everyone's business. So, you'd feel pulled to kind of go with the crowd perhaps? I'd personally hope if a man's strangling his wife, someone would bloody well call the RCMP. But that's not for me to judge, I wasn't there. He may have terrorized his entire community for many years, we just don't know. Apparently drove Ms Forbes out of the community. Hopefully those missing details will come out down the road.

Yeah you can’t really disclose those details about neighbours. When we bought our place in Ottawa in a good area it wasn’t disclosed to us that parents had deserted their house and left their teenagers there. So mobs of friends of them would party and do drugs etc. Neighbours that complained got their cars damaged. Thankfully it only lasted through less then a year then the house sold. I never though badly of the people I bought from. I felt worse for those two kids. At some point they literally destroyed the house spray painting etc. Now everyone is good. An awful thing to do to your kids I still wonder how they turned out.

 

[Amoca]

Someone in the area drove and video'ed the gunman's route, with the exception of in Portapique itself, which is local traffic only. Explains in writing where things happen. Shubenacadie is beautiful farm country (though it's still winterish here), where the Mountie, Ms. Goulet and bystander Joey Webber were killed. Fastest I ever drove in a car was on that straight stretch of road past her house, back in the Trans Am and Firebirds days. This trip is interesting so you see how sparsely populated and stretched out geographically we are. (though he/she took a couple hours drive and cut it down to 16.06.)

 

[newguy123]

Thank you for that video. When the car turned around and Portipique and headed toward Debert, I saw people walking along the shoulder and thought how easily the gunman might have dealt with them, just out walking.
I just wonder if he had a plan and what it was. He doubled back on Sunday to do more evil, but was that to decoy resources to that area while he went the other? What if he hadn't needed to get gas? Where was he going....and to do what?

 

[paganini]

Can anyone say a what point he left areas policed by RCMP, if he did? If he got into an area not policed by RCMP, but by a regional force, would it be unusual to see an RCMP vehicle in that area on a Sunday (19th)?

 

[Marp]

Can anyone say a what point he left areas policed by RCMP, if he did? If he got into an area not policed by RCMP, but by a regional force, would it be unusual to see an RCMP vehicle in that area on a Sunday (19th)?

Truro seems to be the only place he drove that has its own police department. There’s an RCMP detachment in Bible Hill just north of Truro and and then one just south of Truro in Millbrook. To go from one detachment to the other by the most direct route would go right through town on the old two lane highway system. So IMO no one would look twice if an RCMP cruiser drove through Truro.

 

[Amoca]

Truro seems to be the only place he drove that has its own police department. There’s an RCMP detachment in Bible Hill just north of Truro and and then one just south of Truro in Millbrook. To go from one detachment to the other by the most direct route would go right through town on the old two lane highway system. So IMO no one would look twice if an RCMP cruiser drove through Truro.

Truro's the only town large enough to have a regional/town police. 2016 census gave a population of 12,261, so not very big. RCMP have a detachment in BibleHill outskirts of Truro.

Mounties have jurisdiction Canada-wide, Regional/town police don't, it's town-limits only. I keep wondering if that's why he didn't kill anyone in Truro, but just drove through? Bugs me that he drove through the middle of town, and didn't do anything.
No one would look twice at an RCMP car in town.

If you live outside of Truro limits, you get the RCMP by default.

 

[tayaway]

Someone in the area drove and video'ed the gunman's route, with the exception of in Portapique itself, which is local traffic only. Explains in writing where things happen. Shubenacadie is beautiful farm country (though it's still winterish here), where the Mountie, Ms. Goulet and bystander Joey Webber were killed. Fastest I ever drove in a car was on that straight stretch of road past her house, back in the Trans Am and Firebirds days. This trip is interesting so you see how sparsely populated and stretched out geographically we are. (though he/she took a couple hours drive and cut it down to 16.06.)

This vid really helps contextualize the sprawling nature of the area. With the exception of the evergreens, it resembles many other rural Canadian areas. I can't imagine locals having to drive by some of the scenes on the way to their daily tasks.

 

[Amoca]

Can anyone say a what point he left areas policed by RCMP, if he did? If he got into an area not policed by RCMP, but by a regional force, would it be unusual to see an RCMP vehicle in that area on a Sunday (19th)?

He never did. All areas of Canada are RCMP jurisdiction. They are our federal force.