CANADA - shooter in RCMP vehicle & uniform, 22 killed (plus perp), Portapique, NS, 18 April 2020 #2

[newguy123]

Just thinking out loud here. We know where the idiot was by the carnage. But I have trouble figuring out the sequence of events. The roads there (on a map) show he must have doubled back at some point. What field did he drive across and exit to the main road well past first responders? Lots appear possible on map, but the specific is not reported.
It appears to me that after his g/f escaped he went to the Blairs. If so he had to pass the Gulenchyn/Madsen house to get to the Blairs. Then where? Down the road to the Tucks and the Bonds? Double back and set fire to the Gulenchyn/Madsen house on the return trip past? Then back down Portapique Beach road to set fire to his own and to the Thomas/Zahl home? Or did he start there at his end of the road and then go to Orchard Beach? Where on these roads did he shot the man who reported being shot to police?
It was reported his g/f was shot at to hurry her along as he dragged her to the car. If so, I would think those shots were unreported and that the 911 call at 10:01 was in response to incidents at the Blair home.
If he had gas cans in the car, it would sound like this was predmeditated. But looking at a map and locations of the incidents, it would seem it was a rather awkward and convoluted route he drove to conduct this business.
Maybe this info is not yet released, or I have missed it, but it just seems a lot of back and forth movement.

 

[MistyWaters]

Just thinking out loud here. We know where the idiot was by the carnage. But I have trouble figuring out the sequence of events. The roads there (on a map) show he must have doubled back at some point. What field did he drive across and exit to the main road well past first responders? Lots appear possible on map, but the specific is not reported.
It appears to me that after his g/f escaped he went to the Blairs. If so he had to pass the Gulenchyn/Madsen house to get to the Blairs. Then where? Down the road to the Tucks and the Bonds? Double back and set fire to the Gulenchyn/Madsen house on the return trip past? Then back down Portapique Beach road to set fire to his own and to the Thomas/Zahl home? Or did he start there at his end of the road and then go to Orchard Beach? Where on these roads did he shot the man who reported being shot to police?
It was reported his g/f was shot at to hurry her along as he dragged her to the car. If so, I would think those shots were unreported and that the 911 call at 10:01 was in response to incidents at the Blair home.
If he had gas cans in the car, it would sound like this was predmeditated. But looking at a map and locations of the incidents, it would seem it was a rather awkward and convoluted route he drove to conduct this business.
Maybe this info is not yet released, or I have missed it, but it just seems a lot of back and forth movement.

I hadn’t noticed the RCMP releasing a defined sequence of the killers actions in Portapique and possibly they’ll ever know for sure. It probably will take awhile before the investigation is complete.

As for media reports from “sources”, the shooting victim was either walking or driving but it can’t be both so the accuracy of stories released is somewhat questionable IMO.

STORY MAP: Tracking the killer's and RCMP's movements during Nova Scotia mass shooting | The Chronicle Herald
10:26 p.m. — RCMP officers arrive on scene in the Portapique area and find several casualties, inside and outside, and structure fires.

Officers find a man with gunshot wounds walking along Portapique Beach Road. He tells police he was shot by someone driving what looked to be a police vehicle, which then headed toward the beach.

 

[newguy123]

The man found with gunshot wounds I have also seen reported as walking or driving. One source (sorry, can't find it right now) said he had a female passenger with him. What struck me as odd was that if he was shot, why wasn't she? And if she wasn't, why wasn't she driving?
Always more questions than answers it seems.

 

[MistyWaters]

The man found with gunshot wounds I have also seen reported as walking or driving. One source (sorry, can't find it right now) said he had a female passenger with him. What struck me as odd was that if he was shot, why wasn't she? And if she wasn't, why wasn't she driving?
Always more questions than answers it seems.

Yes I sure agree, questions arise from unanswered questions, plus more from contradictory reporting. Canadian police are notoriously tight-lipped other than releasing updates by official News Releases and/or Press Conferences.

Anonymous “police sources” or “sources close to the investigation” might sound legitimate but it can also be “so-and-so said” or “I heard” sourced by a reporter from FB or twitter in the hot pursuit of Breaking News.

JMO

 

[deugirtni]

Earlier in the thread we theorized about GW going around to neighbours and killing them potentially because he thought his gf might have sought shelter with those neighbours.

 

[MistyWaters]

Off-Topic It’s now being reported it was a Snowbird, their spokesperson, Jennifer Casey who was tragically killed in the deadly crash in Kamloops this afternoon. She grew up in Halifax, previously working there as a news reporter, anchor and producer for a radio station before joining the Snowbirds. My heart is broken and once again for Nova Scotia too. <sad>

Victim in Snowbirds crash identified as former journalist Capt. Jennifer Casey - NEWS 1130

 

[MistyWaters]

Earlier in the thread we theorized about GW going around to neighbours and killing them potentially because he thought his gf might have sought shelter with those neighbours.

He might’ve but that doesn’t quite account for why he was about to set off with her handcuffed in the backseat of the fake police cruiser along with a gas can (Macleans report linked earlier) and dressed as a police officer or his continued rampage the following day.

 

[deugirtni]

He might’ve but that doesn’t quite account for why he was about to set off with her handcuffed in the backseat of the fake police cruiser along with a gas can (Macleans report linked earlier) and dressed as a police officer or his continued rampage the following day.

It doesn't.. I tried to speculate, but couldn't figure out how to word it in such a way so as not to offend anyone. From what we've heard to date, the gas in the cruiser didn't seem enough to burn 7 structures to the ground, imo. I'm wondering if his original intent was much different from how things ultimately played out. And the further he raged on, more carnage followed. I'd like to hear more details but not sure if we ever will, since there won't be a trial. No matter what the story, I can't imagine the gf's grief.

 

[mcdonalds]

The McCleans article states they argued first over the video call and she went to bed- then a few hours pass and he wakes her up and the assault/handcuff happens. What was he doing between the verbal argument and the physical assault?

It just strikes me that he seems to cover a large patch of ground in 30+ minutes (1001-1035)- getting his fake police ego suited up and ready to go- killing and setting fires in multiple neighborhood locations- this would have taken time going location to location- entering homes, setting fires, killing people- injure a passerby- kill the Ellison boy, go looking for the Ellison brother.

Did some of these events actually happen in between the timeline of the verbal argument and him waking her up and assaulting/handcuffing her?

Was the last part of his plan to just leave her handcuffed in the car with the gas cans as the house burned? They don’t specify which of the 2 cruiser or if it was the replica. Its stated that when he went back into the house- she escaped the handcuff- perhaps he was setting fire to his house and when he realized she was gone- he had to change plans and got in the car and fled the area?

Ellison reports a SINGLE gunshot and things on fire at the time of the call- could this be the timeline of him actually shooting at her to get her in the car? Did he have a silencer on the gun he used- why only a single gunshot was reported if so many were killed by gun?

 

[newguy123]

I do believe that the 10:01 911 call indicates the time when people became aware something was going on, but not necessarily when things started. I re-watched Clinton Ellison's interview and a couple of things brought further questions to me.
* his brother went to check out the fire, and then called his brother and father back at the house to ask them to call 911. He was there taking pictures of the fire. I thought it odd that he did not call 911 himself since he would know the emergency number to call! Where is his phone with the pictures?
* he mentioned the fire but nothing about bodies, so how close did he get to the fire before being shot himself? This might indicate how far the gunmen was walking about on foot.
* the brothers could see the glow of a fire and one went to investigate. But it was "a" glow not several fires burning. Maybe it was where they were standing, or the status of the fires themselves but interesting they saw the glow from "a" fire, not several. This was just after 10.
* When the second brother went out in search of the first, he went toward the fire, but never mentioned other fires.

Again, more questions than answers. Or maybe I'm looking for some sort of sense of order when it was just pure chaos.

 

[tayaway]

I do believe that the 10:01 911 call indicates the time when people became aware something was going on, but not necessarily when things started. I re-watched Clinton Ellison's interview and a couple of things brought further questions to me.
* his brother went to check out the fire, and then called his brother and father back at the house to ask them to call 911. He was there taking pictures of the fire. I thought it odd that he did not call 911 himself since he would know the emergency number to call! Where is his phone with the pictures?

Again, more questions than answers. Or maybe I'm looking for some sort of sense of order when it was just pure chaos.

What happened before and after the 10:01 call maybe something that only locals and police know?

I don't have a cell phone, so when taking pics, I use a straight up camera. Could it be that he was also using a camera, not a phone?

A sense of order is a lot to ask of a jumbled mess, ya? Be careful, your head may explode trying to create a comprehensive chart.

 

[Tilly23]

I've wondered if that 10:01 pm 911 call might have been from the McCully and Blair kids, huddling in the McCully's basement? That call was said to be a report of gunshots - not a fire being called in. The Blair kids would likely have at least *heard* the gunshots when the gunman killed their parents. Pure speculation here, but Lisa McCully may have come out to investigate because the Blair kids had run to her home - she may have told all the kids, hers and the Blair's, to go hide in the basement and to call 911 before she went out.

IF that 10:01 call did come from the kids, mayhem was already well underway at that point. So while an astonishing amount happened between then and 10:35 pm, things would have started earlier. It has been interesting to me that the 10:01 call is the first call. It suggests that if there were events earlier than that, they were not called in. Were they not called in because they were not happening yet? Or were the people that knew about them just not able to call them in to report them?

I am curious to know when the first fire report was made. It was unsettling to hear (I believe it was in the RCMP news conference on April 28) that 9 of the victims died in fires. Did the fires happen very quickly, giving the people inside no chance of getting out? Did he somehow block the exits before starting the fires? Did any of them call 911 from inside their houses? I realize they likely would have been shot if they had run out, but even if they knew that, would they choose to stay inside a burning house?

I've also re-watched Clint Ellison's interview a few times to try to look at the time line. After we heard that they know the gunman left the Portapique area at 10:35 pm (he could not have shown up on the cameras in Debert when he did if he left much later) I wondered if the flashlight Clint saw looking for him when he looked back at the road might not have been the gunman, but a real RCMP officer investigating the scene? It is totally understandable that he was terrified and believed he was being hunted. There were fires and explosions going off all around. It was dark. He had just seen his brother dead on the roadside. But maybe this was taking place after 10:35 pm?


MOO

 

[deugirtni]

I am curious why it is like pulling teeth to get a good timeline? ie what time was this neighbourhood get-together? What time was the verbal spat (presumably at the party in front of the others?) between GW and gf? What time did gf 'go to bed'.. and also seems she was able to 'go to sleep', because 'later', GS 'woke her up'? To me, it also seems like pulling teeth to find accurate and official info on which homes were burned down, and structures. I know I have seen a list posted here, but not sure where that list is coming from? And said list does not seem to include everything.

I also was interested when during one of the press conferences, the speaking RCMP officer stated that even though the perp was dead, the investigation would be done as in any other investigation, and he elaborated by saying something like, 'making sure the bullets match the weapon', or something to that effect, and I thought to myself, oh thank god.. because I have had these very off-putting, niggling little thoughts running through my head since day#1. To continue so much secrecy around basic facts just begs for more speculating and potential conspiracy theorizing. imo.

 

[Errrr]

I am curious why it is like pulling teeth to get a good timeline? ie what time was this neighbourhood get-together? What time was the verbal spat (presumably at the party in front of the others?) between GW and gf? What time did gf 'go to bed'.. and also seems she was able to 'go to sleep', because 'later', GS 'woke her up'? To me, it also seems like pulling teeth to find accurate and official info on which homes were burned down, and structures. I know I have seen a list posted here, but not sure where that list is coming from? And said list does not seem to include.

People in Portapique go to sleep really early!

 

[newguy123]

might not have been the gunman, but a real RCMP officer investigating the scene?
Tilly I have wondered that myself, but did not want to voice that as it might possibly come across as diminishing what Clinton went thru.
Understandably his timeline is vague when he reports they heard a gunshot "about 10". Then "no so long after that" his father came down and they asked if he'd heard the gunshot. Then they went outside and saw the glow. How many minutes were "not so long"? Then his brother went to investigate and they "waited and waited and waited". How long is that? Then Corrie called them that the fire was really bad, for them to call fire dept. and that he was taking pictures. Then we "waited and waited and waited" and then Clinton started up the road. So we have a period between hearing the shot, the appearance of their father, the walk down the road by Corrie, a waiting period, a phone call, another waiting period and then Clinton going down the road.

If the 10:01 call was in response to the same shot the Ellisons heard, and then allowing for the sequence of events as described in Clinton's interview, is it possible that he arrived at the fire scene as the police did, already notified of a shooter?

Is it possible, and I hesitate to even write this, but if the flashlight was held by a police officer and not the gunman, could Ellison have been hit by a mistaken RCMP?

 

[Errrr]

This is pure conjecture but does anyone else think that he handcuffed her in the backseat of the car and was intending for her to witness what he was about to do? That makes a bit of sense to me. The gasoline was in there or he put it in. There is still so much we don’t know. I do think it was premeditated though. I guess we’ll understand more at some point.

Maybe it’s asking for trouble to bring your replica police car to the pumps? He may have need to fill it up via gas cans.

 

[Marp]

might not have been the gunman, but a real RCMP officer investigating the scene?
Tilly I have wondered that myself, but did not want to voice that as it might possibly come across as diminishing what Clinton went thru.
Understandably his timeline is vague when he reports they heard a gunshot "about 10". Then "no so long after that" his father came down and they asked if he'd heard the gunshot. Then they went outside and saw the glow. How many minutes were "not so long"? Then his brother went to investigate and they "waited and waited and waited". How long is that? Then Corrie called them that the fire was really bad, for them to call fire dept. and that he was taking pictures. Then we "waited and waited and waited" and then Clinton started up the road. So we have a period between hearing the shot, the appearance of their father, the walk down the road by Corrie, a waiting period, a phone call, another waiting period and then Clinton going down the road.

If the 10:01 call was in response to the same shot the Ellisons heard, and then allowing for the sequence of events as described in Clinton's interview, is it possible that he arrived at the fire scene as the police did, already notified of a shooter?

Is it possible, and I hesitate to even write this, but if the flashlight was held by a police officer and not the gunman, could Ellison have been hit by a mistaken RCMP?

Commenting on: “Is it possible, and I hesitate to even write this, but if the flashlight was held by a police officer and not the gunman, could Ellison have been hit by a mistaken RCMP?”

IMO we don’t know who was holding the flashlight but my initial reaction was the same that it wasn’t the gunman and might have been police. In the interview CE says he discovered his brother’s body and then ran away as fast he could. He turned around further at a bend in the road and saw a flashlight shining in his direction and his fear seems to be that the gunman had seen him and was looking for him. We don’t know the timeline but his phone would tell exactly when he phoned and asked his father to call the fire department. Was Corrie’s body one of the several scattered around the Blair property?

 

[MistyWaters]

might not have been the gunman, but a real RCMP officer investigating the scene?
Tilly I have wondered that myself, but did not want to voice that as it might possibly come across as diminishing what Clinton went thru.
Understandably his timeline is vague when he reports they heard a gunshot "about 10". Then "no so long after that" his father came down and they asked if he'd heard the gunshot. Then they went outside and saw the glow. How many minutes were "not so long"? Then his brother went to investigate and they "waited and waited and waited". How long is that? Then Corrie called them that the fire was really bad, for them to call fire dept. and that he was taking pictures. Then we "waited and waited and waited" and then Clinton started up the road. So we have a period between hearing the shot, the appearance of their father, the walk down the road by Corrie, a waiting period, a phone call, another waiting period and then Clinton going down the road.

If the 10:01 call was in response to the same shot the Ellisons heard, and then allowing for the sequence of events as described in Clinton's interview, is it possible that he arrived at the fire scene as the police did, already notified of a shooter?

Is it possible, and I hesitate to even write this, but if the flashlight was held by a police officer and not the gunman, could Ellison have been hit by a mistaken RCMP?

“Lifelong Portapique resident Peter Hodge, 65, woke up at 1:30 a.m. and saw lights so bright, he thought it was a fire. He then realized that the bright lights were from "probably upwards of 14 police cars in the community."...”
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/rcmp-weapon-lockdown-portapique-1.5537598

After spending the four hours in the woods perhaps it was the lights from police cars that indicated to C it was safe to come out from hiding? At the time he wouldn’t have known the shooter was dressed up as an officer, driving a fake police car. If so, the four hours would’ve began at about 9:30 pm.

However when a person is overcome by great shock and fear, ensuring to later remember a precise and accurate timeline is probably the last thing on their mind. But the pandemonium may’ve began well before 10pm if victims were killed, survivors hiding or in shock, who’s to immediately call 911.

 

[MistyWaters]

I notice this report dated yesterday indicates it hasn’t yet been confirmed how the victims found in the burned homes were murdered. A possible scenario, he shot the victims first, then returned to burn their homes later and when police arrived at 10:26pm he was interrupted. Perhaps he intended to leave no survivors at all.

This would be information the RCMP require to move forward with a timeline as well, in addition to analysis of the 500 interviews amongst other investigative and forensic activity.


BBM

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova...stigation-nova-scotia-mass-shooting-1.5569427

“The Nova Scotia Medical Examiner Service won't seek help from outside the province as it investigates the deaths of 22 people in last month's mass killing, even though experts say the sheer size of the investigation poses a challenge.

Forensic pathologists must piece together how each victim died. They perform autopsies, identify bodies and determine cause of death, all critical to homicide investigations.

Their work in Nova Scotia got more complicated on April 18-19.....

.....Getting those answers can be hard in a case this big. Milroy estimates it would take the medical examiner's office several days to process 22 bodies. ......

......He said if Ottawa was facing a similar mass killing it would keep his office busy for two or three weeks because there would be a buildup of routine cases while workers investigated the killing.

The house and vehicle fires in the Nova Scotia case also complicate the investigation. If a body is severely burned, determining the cause of death can be difficult.”

 

[newguy123]

The Ellison boys heard a shot about 10. "Not so long after that" their father appeared. They asked him about the gun shot, then went outside and saw the glow from the fire. That would suggest to me the fire was well established at the scene and to me, the shooter would have left the scene by then, either to flee or to do more evil in the area. Despite the objection of his father, Corrie went to investigate. He went down and was then able to call back home and take pictures, prior to being shot. Depending on how long "not so long after that" actually was , and how long they stood looking at the glow and how long discussed investigating or not and how long a walk it was.....(lots of unknowns there, sorry) but he might have arrived roughly the time the police did but after the shooter left the scene. The chaos and darkness would only make things worse.