GUILTY Canada - Taliyah Marsman, 5, & Sara Baillie, 34, Calgary, 11 July 2016 #2

[spinnaweb]

Taliyah loved her dad (as is clear in images of them together in happy moments) and this family does not strike as the type to stoop to exclusion in a situation so final in its penned words. Just my opinion.

 

[rogerrabbit]

The motive I imagine is the biggest question most people want answered. I'm curious as to which motive my fellow web sleuthers are leaning towards:
A) gang related (revenge/threat/human trafficking/etc)
B) pedophilia
C) crime of passion/jealousy/love triangle
D) child custody driven
E) other? Do tell.

 

[gardenia]

The motive I imagine is the biggest question most people want answered. I'm curious as to which motive my fellow web sleuthers are leaning towards:
A) gang related (revenge/threat/human trafficking/etc)
B) pedophilia
C) crime of passion/jealousy/love triangle
D) child custody driven
E) other? Do tell.

I'm inclined to say C. Though I think it's possible there is a history of A with SB.


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[kimi_SFC]

Thank you for posting the link, AceDetective.
:tears:
:rose: :rose:

:welcome4:


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[audge86]

The motive I imagine is the biggest question most people want answered. I'm curious as to which motive my fellow web sleuthers are leaning towards:
A) gang related (revenge/threat/human trafficking/etc)
B) pedophilia
C) crime of passion/jealousy/love triangle
D) child custody driven
E) other? Do tell.

I believe A or C. I don't think we have enough information to know right now.

Knowing Canadian police, we may not know for years. Not until it goes to trial.

 

[KatieLiz]

The motive I imagine is the biggest question most people want answered. I'm curious as to which motive my fellow web sleuthers are leaning towards:
A) gang related (revenge/threat/human trafficking/etc)
B) pedophilia
C) crime of passion/jealousy/love triangle
D) child custody driven
E) other? Do tell.

I'll vote- C, B, A... In that order.

 

[AceDetective]

Regarding the motive... If this is true: "Police say Downey has an 'extensive criminal history' and was a family friend to the child and her mother, but not her father, as was previously reported." (source), then that points toward some type of crime of opportunity. Maybe he found out she had a substantial amount of money or drugs, or maybe he decided to rape her. It doesn't take much for these criminal types.

I do find it an incredible coincidence that Sara and Colin were in court on a Thursday regarding child support, and by the following Monday there was no more child support. But with the perp knowing the victims, that tends to point to other things.

(Thanks kimi_SFC, for the welcome.)

 

[Satchie]

Regarding the motive... If this is true: "Police say Downey has an 'extensive criminal history' and was a family friend to the child and her mother, but not her father, as was previously reported." (source), then that points toward some type of crime of opportunity. Maybe he found out she had a substantial amount of money or drugs, or maybe he decided to rape her. It doesn't take much for these criminal types.

I do find it an incredible coincidence that Sara and Colin were in court on a Thursday regarding child support, and by the following Monday there was no more child support. But with the perp knowing the victims, that tends to point to other things.

(Thanks kimi_SFC, for the welcome.)

I tend to work by a process of elimination, though I'm just offering my opinion.

Firstly, no gang would condone killing a little girl, IMO. Possibly a male rival along with his family, but then it would have the marks of a gangland killing, such as shooting all together in their home, to send a warning to others.

I don't believe the father could have possibly wanted his daughter hurt. If ED had mixed up a 'hit' or something, I don't think he'd have been driving around Calgary days later. He may have believed LE wouldn't carch him, but he'd be afraid of the wrath of TM's father and would have left town.

So that leaves either a psychological breakdown, where he acted out anger he was feeling towards others like perhaps his wife and child; a personal vendetta against the mother; or an obsession with little Taliyah. I don't think we have enough information at this point, but I feel this was a personal crime, his membership in gangs isn't actually relevant.

 

[Dion]

Quote Originally Posted by rogerrabbit View Post

The motive I imagine is the biggest question most people want answered. I'm curious as to which motive my fellow web sleuthers are leaning towards:
A) gang related (revenge/threat/human trafficking/etc)
B) pedophilia
C) crime of passion/jealousy/love triangle
D) child custody driven
E) other? Do tell.

There is not enough background info to go on to really give an educated guess, but at the moment, I'm leaning towards D and A, with child custody being the trigger. I don't think the plan was well thought out and something went wrong. Was the original plan to kill the mother and leave the child in the home? Did Taliyah see her mother's killer, and would be able to identify him, so rather than leave her there, he got her to pack a suitcase and then called whoever, to ask what he should do with her? Unfortunately, we know the outcome …

 

[Slebby]

I would like to know more about this gang. Is it active in Calgary? The gang connection has to be a factor. It would be too much of a coincidence for SB to have been the ex-common-law wife of one member, to have possibly dated another member, and to then be murdered by a third member of the same gang.
IMHO



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[rogerrabbit]

I would like to know more about this gang. Is it active in Calgary? The gang connection has to be a factor. It would be too much of a coincidence for SB to have been the ex-common-law wife of one member, to have possibly dated another member, and to then be murdered by a third member of the same gang.
IMHO



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Yes, I think that would be a huge coincidence. So yes maybe the gang connections have something to do with it - but in a sense as if all the parties were known to each other but not gang affiliated. What I'm saying is the affiliations of all the parties for sure has something to do with it but I don't necessarily think it was gang directed.

You know how after a terrorist attack everyone always looks to ISIS to see if they will take credit? Well I kind of relate this situation to that, except that I believe NPF probably doesn't want to take credit or be associated with these murders. Sure ED has/had NPF connections but I doubt he was acting on any sort of gang orders.

 

[Slebby]

I did a quick and lazy look into NPF. Yikes! These guys are really bad news. I personally find it difficult to reconcile "activity in a gang specializing in human trafficking and drugs" with "loving father to little girl". I know people can change, but wow. I cannot think of any way I would have ever been involved with someone romantically who had, in a previous life, thought human trafficking was ok. It makes me wonder how SB, seemingly from a normal, loving, non-criminal family found love with CM.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Preston's_Finest


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[spinnaweb]

2 counts of 1st deg. murder leads me to believe LE has evidence to support premeditation for both victims. I would at least pick 'A'

 

[rogerrabbit]

I did a quick and lazy look into NPF. Yikes! These guys are really bad news. I personally find it difficult to reconcile "activity in a gang specializing in human trafficking and drugs" with "loving father to little girl". I know people can change, but wow. I cannot think of any way I would have ever been involved with someone romantically who had, in a previous life, thought human trafficking was ok. It makes me wonder how SB, seemingly from a normal, loving, non-criminal family found love with CM.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Preston's_Finest


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How accurate and true is the information that CM was involved with a gang (NPF)? All I have ever read is CM shares gang connections with ED.....does that mean CM is or was a part of the gang? Or could that just mean that CM has close family and/or friends in the gang? I mean if I'm not a gang member but I know someone who is that could be referred to as "gang connection" right?

Also, does anyone know the truth about CM knowing ED? The reports have gone back and forth regarding this fact.

 

[rogerrabbit]

2 counts of 1st deg. murder leads me to believe LE has evidence to support premeditation for both victims. I would at least pick 'A'

Well SBs murder could certainly be premeditated (and likely was), but it's possible little TMs was not, but it gets the 1st degree charge because of the kidnapping aspect.

 

[AceDetective]

If a person hangs around with a person who is in a gang it's perfectly reasonable to expect they would meet other people from that gang. That's not a coincidence at all.

I agree with Satchie. The gang had nothing to do with this.

 

[dogmatica]

First post. Hello folks. Like all of you I watched this very closely and was utterly heartbroken and beyond angry when I heard that Taliyah was murdered. I live in Calgary. One thing that really bothers me is that (if this is in fact correct) SB kept really, really bad company. Three of the men in her life (CM, the "recent boyfriend" and the vile who committed this murder) were all tied to the same gang - a vicious, evil gang whose business included trafficking young girls. She was clearly drawn to "bad boys", which is simply a cool way of saying "piece of ***** ****s". Again none of this has been proven - but if it is the case, the company SB decided to keep got both her and her beautiful little girl murdered. Why would an otherwise seemingly decent woman keep such vile company? These men are clearly very, very dangerous.

 

[dogmatica]

1st degree murder in Canada means A) it was premeditated/planned or B) the murder was committed during a sexual assault or kidnapping.

 

[Paulas88]

Well SBs murder could certainly be premeditated (and likely was), but it's possible little TMs was not, but it gets the 1st degree charge because of the kidnapping aspect.

IDK, maybe it does? I'm wondering if SB had some important info (gang or individual related) that she exposed or confided to someone?

 

[Slebby]

How accurate and true is the information that CM was involved with a gang (NPF)? All I have ever read is CM shares gang connections with ED.....does that mean CM is or was a part of the gang? Or could that just mean that CM has close family and/or friends in the gang? I mean if I'm not a gang member but I know someone who is that could be referred to as "gang connection" right?

Also, does anyone know the truth about CM knowing ED? The reports have gone back and forth regarding this fact.

I don't know how accurate the info is re CM gang involvement, but personally, if MSM had erroneously reported that I had history in a criminal gang, my lawyer would be making sure they publish a retraction. Or I would be making my own statement to counter the false story. Also, if the CPS was misquoted, i'm sure they would make sure the record was set straight.
IMHO


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