Canadian hostage, wife & children freed from Afghanistan, Oct 2017 #1

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That's what I wonder too.

We're missing a big ol' chunk of info, imo.
They ALLEGEDLY kept the family alive hoping someone would pay ransom or a hostage exchange.

A senior intelligence official in Islamabad told the Guardian that the Haqqani network had demanded a ransom of 15m rupees (about a quarter of a million US dollars) and the release of captives from Afghanistan in exchange for the family’s release.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/12/pakistan-rescues-canadian-american-family-hostages-haqqani
 
JMO
I agree. I cant shake the feeling that he somehow colluded with others over there to try to "fake" the whole kidnapping ordeal to try to get money given to both himself and the others that helped him in the scheme.

It all comes across like an international telemarketing scam except with him using his wife as the bait and using being kidnapped as the vehicle to obtain money.

It could have started out that way and when his "partners in crime" realized more about this person they realized he is off his rocker and so they really did lock him up and cut him out of the attempted money making. Then when they realized no money was coming and the news got too hot they just let him go.

I tend to think something along these lines because I have never heard of a terrorist hostage victim begin to argue with their own kidnappers and have as much power in how he was treated as he claims to have had.
If he pulled 1/2 of the stuff he said he tried to pull with "real terrorists", they would have cut his head off before he got the next word out.
BBM

Oh, I definitely can see your theory being possible. JB is convinced that he is so very important, I can see him hoping to convince potential abductors that he and his very pregnant wife are soooo extremely valuable that either the U.S. or Canadian government would pay big bucks or give up prisoners to get them back.

Or, if not the government, some kind of “reverse ransom” benefactor would pay for their release out of the kindness of his heart (you see where I’m going with this ;)). He would get a cut of the money or be paid a price per released prisoner. I’m inclined to think this was his purpose for taking CC there and loudly and publicly blabbing about their plans.

After the Taliban wouldn’t bite, and the Haqqani took over, I don’t understand why it took five years to size this guy up and cut their losses. Why didn’t they kill him? He must have told some really tall tales about his connections in order to keep them on the hook while releasing their defiant videos and having babies. Why were they allowed letters and “care packages” from home?

And why do his bravado stories make me think of Sherri Papini slamming her captor’s head into a toilet? Wouldn’t it be weird if both of these cases had similar motives?!
JMO
 
I do not get it. Why did the Taliban or whatever group simply not disappear him?

They kill women and children. Why keep him alive?

Read my note upthread, concept repeated in one of the articles. Warriors usually have a “warrior code”. Actually, I would venture to bet most human groups do. They differentiate between enemies and insiders. They have separate rules for each. You could have a savagely violent group that takes great care of wives and children. They think differently about them than they do about “others”.

This is a generalized concept. Think how racism and ethnophobia work. They are about having separate rules for people who are “other” than people who are “like.” Humans treat those they have prejudices about totally differently than their own. Same with warriors.

The Taliban evidently have certain categories of people they don’t treat the way they treat their enemies. E.g. they have scruples about pregnant women and children. This should not be surprising. We do that, too.
 

Thanks! Lots of info in this article. A few things that stood out to me...

“In his yearbook, Boyle’s chosen quotation oozed with teen pomposity: “When I was young I discovered I was neither God nor Satan. I was so disappointed in myself, I never bothered to narrow it down any further.”

On the Star Wars forum:

“Boyle, using the name JediWarrior, was something of a forum troll, but a knowledgeable and engaging one. Forum administrators said he was not their favourite contributor. “

I hadn’t realized that CC lived with JB in Toronto starting in June 2007 for an unknown length of time. JB earlier attended court hearings in 2006 regarding the Toronto 18 and ingratiating himself with the Khadr family, according to Khadr friends who were suspicious of him. This contradicts his statement that he first sent an introductory email to his future wife in 2008 while researching for Wikipedia.

“Despite suspicions and warnings, Zaynab Khadr became close to Boyle. He said he planned to write a book about the Khadrs, an inside account with the assistance and support of some of the family. Khadr gave him documents and material to help him.


“It was pretty worrying,” said a family friend. “He was looking not to join the Islamic faith, but as a way to get information from Zaynab about the Khadrs. I didn’t trust him from start to finish,” said another.”


Their marriage only lasted 18 months.

“Boyle wanted a more subservient spouse than Zaynab would accommodate, family friends said, and their relationship crumbled.”

Hmmmmmm

He and CC married soon after the divorce was final in 2011. They lived in Perth-Andover and after their abduction JB’s father retrieved items from the home.

“Among the items were medical forceps, chains and leather straps, a resident said.” :eek:

BBM

http://nationalpost.com/feature/joshua-boyle
 
Great posts above on JB’s motives, e.g. ransom etc.

Do you think maybe the idea was to get ransom money out of his parents? Either he faked a kidnap (and it went wrong) to get money from his wealthy parents OR he persuaded his new buddies the captors that his folks had all kinds of money. A few thousand might have seemed a lot to them; this is clear because they asked for very little ransom!

I realize there were no reports of ransom demands, but that doesn’t mean there weren’t ransom elements in JB’s pitch to his bandit bros.
 
The more I read about JB - sounds like an Opportunist with a capital O.
 
JMO
I agree. I cant shake the feeling that he somehow colluded with others over there to try to "fake" the whole kidnapping ordeal to try to get money given to both himself and the others that helped him in the scheme.

It all comes across like an international telemarketing scam except with him using his wife as the bait and using being kidnapped as the vehicle to obtain money.

It could have started out that way and when his "partners in crime" realized more about this person they realized he is off his rocker and so they really did lock him up and cut him out of the attempted money making. Then when they realized no money was coming and the news got too hot they just let him go.

I tend to think something along these lines because I have never heard of a terrorist hostage victim begin to argue with their own kidnappers and have as much power in how he was treated as he claims to have had.
If he pulled 1/2 of the stuff he said he tried to pull with "real terrorists", they would have cut his head off before he got the next word out
.

At this point, I don't believe a word out of this psychopaths gaslighting mouth. Such a big tough guy, telling those bad terrorists whats what, when and how to pray, and keeping his bonehead attached to his neck. There is a story to tell but it isn't the one Jedi Josh is selling. He needs to be kept in a psych ward, general population or one way ticket back to his beloved Afganistan. LMAO the terrorist first wife's BFF's didn't trust the loser. Clearly no one is helping his wife and those poor kids. They need to be kept far away from Jedi. Where are her parents?
 
At this point, I don't believe a word out of this psychopaths gaslighting mouth. Such a big tough guy, telling those bad terrorists whats what, when and how to pray, and keeping his bonehead attached to his neck. There is a story to tell but it isn't the one Jedi Josh is selling. He needs to be kept in a psych ward, general population or one way ticket back to his beloved Afganistan. LMAO the terrorist first wife's BFF's didn't trust the loser. Clearly no one is helping his wife and those poor kids. They need to be kept far away from Jedi. Where are her parents?
BBM

We heard upthread that her parents are with her but I don’t have the link. Here’s hoping she can take the kids back to the U.S. if Canadian law allows (she may need JB’s permission). Of course, she’s an adult and can choose to “stand by her man” if she wants and there’s not much her parents can do.
 
Likely there will be a restraining order with his bail conditions which will prevent contact between the CC and JB (this is if she is indeed the victim). Also the crown attorneys wont want him to communicate with her in order for her to change the story.

If CAS is involved, which I suspect they are, he may get supervised visits with the children pending his convictions. This can be done at an Access Centre, or some responsible adult, say his parents are supervising.



 
No, I do not believe that JB and CC, who was pregnant for a good half of her captivity, mounted a three day resistance against their captors in which they took over parts of the compound. Presumably with 1-3 very young children in tow. I'll buy JB making a desperate, totally ineffectual attempt to go at a captor with a knife, but that's about it. I also don't understand why the Haqqanis would give two straws about whether or not JB joined them. The family's value was as potential bargaining chips, not as potential fighters. If there's a grain of truth in this, my guess is it has more to do with them wanting something they knew or believed JB might know about rival militant groups based on connections from his first marriage.

I do tend to think both that the kidnapping really was unconnected to Zaynab Khadar, and that both of them were actually captives; whatever abuse JB might have perpetrated on CC during their imprisonment, IMO, was separate from whatever the captors were doing to them. I also think he probably went to Afghanistan with ideas of meeting up with, if not joining, the Taliban. But based on the earlier article, it sounds like them getting kidnapped was actually a pretty predictable result of two Westerners walking into a dangerous area and shouting about their movements and intentions for everyone to hear.

Does anyone know what a typical sentence is for someone convicted on the kind of charges JB is being held on? I'm not asking for sentencing guidelines, since those are clearly going to yield a pretty hefty potential sentence if you add up the max for fifteen charges, but wondering what actually winds up being a typical outcome for someone held on a number of counts of DV including assault and sexual assault.

I think he might be given 'a pass' since he can claim he was suffering from traumatic stress due to being held captive etc etc.
 
I think he might be given 'a pass' since he can claim he was suffering from traumatic stress due to being held captive etc etc.

I hope you’re wrong, but a “pass” is possible, especially if CC backs off.
 
I want to hear more from that neighbor! That little tidbit by itself is pretty disturbing.

It also stood out for me that Zaynab, with her full burqa and all, was not subservient enough for his royal highness. This is all coming together to paint a pretty grim picture.

Thanks! Lots of info in this article. A few things that stood out to me...

“In his yearbook, Boyle’s chosen quotation oozed with teen pomposity: “When I was young I discovered I was neither God nor Satan. I was so disappointed in myself, I never bothered to narrow it down any further.”

On the Star Wars forum:

“Boyle, using the name JediWarrior, was something of a forum troll, but a knowledgeable and engaging one. Forum administrators said he was not their favourite contributor. “

I hadn’t realized that CC lived with JB in Toronto starting in June 2007 for an unknown length of time. JB earlier attended court hearings in 2006 regarding the Toronto 18 and ingratiating himself with the Khadr family, according to Khadr friends who were suspicious of him. This contradicts his statement that he first sent an introductory email to his future wife in 2008 while researching for Wikipedia.

“Despite suspicions and warnings, Zaynab Khadr became close to Boyle. He said he planned to write a book about the Khadrs, an inside account with the assistance and support of some of the family. Khadr gave him documents and material to help him.


“It was pretty worrying,” said a family friend. “He was looking not to join the Islamic faith, but as a way to get information from Zaynab about the Khadrs. I didn’t trust him from start to finish,” said another.”


Their marriage only lasted 18 months.

“Boyle wanted a more subservient spouse than Zaynab would accommodate, family friends said, and their relationship crumbled.”

Hmmmmmm

He and CC married soon after the divorce was final in 2011. They lived in Perth-Andover and after their abduction JB’s father retrieved items from the home.

“Among the items were medical forceps, chains and leather straps, a resident said.” :eek:

BBM

http://nationalpost.com/feature/joshua-boyle
 
“I don’t know if they had any power in the house or not,” said Michaud.

Boyle wanted a more subservient spouse than Zaynab would accommodate, family friends said, and their relationship crumbled.

Boyle’s father sent a U-haul truck to load up his son’s belongings, which included some unusual items, said another neighbour, who didn’t want to be named. Among the items were medical forceps, chains and leather straps, a resident said.
http://nationalpost.com/feature/joshua-boyle

Caitlin’s family must quickly get her and the kids away from this freak and batterer! He will soon be out on bail and may not be given any time in jail.
 
“Mr. Boyle is presumed innocent of all charges,” read a statement from Ottawa lawyers Lawrence Greenspon and Eric Granger. “He has no criminal record and has never been in trouble with the police.”
But the latter part of that statement about the one-time hostage in Afghanistan may need to be amended.
It turns out Boyle has indeed been in trouble with the police, as a young adult, and he has appeared in court as well.
With the help of Toronto Sun reporter Sam Pazzano, who confirmed it with the court, we learned Boyle, 34, appeared in Waterloo Region courts Oct. 13, 2003 on a criminal charge.
Then a resident Breslau, Boyle was hit with a theft under $5,000 charge, which was archived under Case file No. 4411 998 032206.
He was not convicted though. In fact, records show the charge was withdrawn under a diversion program.
(He must have completed community service hours, restored the money or item, or completed behavioral modification classes.)
http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-former-hostage-joshua-boyle-had-brush-with-the-law-at-19
 
“Mr. Boyle is presumed innocent of all charges,” read a statement from Ottawa lawyers Lawrence Greenspon and Eric Granger. “He has no criminal record and has never been in trouble with the police.”
But the latter part of that statement about the one-time hostage in Afghanistan may need to be amended.
It turns out Boyle has indeed been in trouble with the police, as a young adult, and he has appeared in court as well.
With the help of Toronto Sun reporter Sam Pazzano, who confirmed it with the court, we learned Boyle, 34, appeared in Waterloo Region courts Oct. 13, 2003 on a criminal charge.
Then a resident Breslau, Boyle was hit with a theft under $5,000 charge, which was archived under Case file No. 4411 998 032206.
He was not convicted though. In fact, records show the charge was withdrawn under a diversion program.
(He must have completed community service hours, restored the money or item, or completed behavioral modification classes.)
http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-former-hostage-joshua-boyle-had-brush-with-the-law-at-19
Yeah? Poor little American girl. Such a victim of the Canadian.
 
Josh refused to answer the Justice of the Peace and plead guilty or not guilty. Does he believe he is only subject to Islamic laws?

Boyle, 34, appeared in an Ottawa courtroom on Wednesday via video link dressed in an orange prison jumpsuit. He confirmed his name, but did not enter a plea to the charges.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-op-hostage-facing-charges.html#ixzz53RJBAkht


Does this mean that he refused to answer (as in, not cooperating with the process) or just that he decided not to enter a plea at this time (presumably because he hasn't figured out whether or not to go for a plea bargain yet)?

As to the comment above that he would get a pass because of his trauma from captivity, I think that would be true if this were a normal hostage situation. Given the suspicions of him, and his background with the Khadr family, I'm guessing his past is more likely to count against him, unless he works some kind of mental health angle.
 
Josh refused to answer the Justice of the Peace and plead guilty or not guilty. Does he believe he is only subject to Islamic laws?

Boyle, 34, appeared in an Ottawa courtroom on Wednesday via video link dressed in an orange prison jumpsuit. He confirmed his name, but did not enter a plea to the charges.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-op-hostage-facing-charges.html#ixzz53RJBAkht


He did confirm his name, so he didn’t refuse to answer according to this article. I don’t see anything unusual or nefarious in not entering a plea. It appears that his attorney did not have complete info yet about the charges.

'Mr. Boyle is presumed innocent of all charges. He has no criminal record and has never been in trouble with the police,' Greenspon said in an e-mailed statement.

'As Mr. Boyle has only just been charged, we are waiting to receive more information about these allegations so that we can respond to them appropriately in court,' Greenspon said.

Let’s see what happens on Monday. I expect a “not guilty” plea because he’d be stupid to plead guilty immediately. It’s up to the state to prove its case. If they present enough evidence to him he may cut a deal and plead guilty to lesser charges at some point. But at this point he’s under no obligation to help the state by pleading guilty. That’s true for any of us accused of a crime. I don’t like JB, but he’s entitled to the same legal protection as all of us.
JMO

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-op-hostage-facing-charges.html#ixzz53RJBAkht
 
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