Canadian hostage, wife & children freed from Afghanistan, Oct 2017 #1

[Datchery]

No, I do not believe that JB and CC, who was pregnant for a good half of her captivity, mounted a three day resistance against their captors in which they took over parts of the compound. Presumably with 1-3 very young children in tow. I'll buy JB making a desperate, totally ineffectual attempt to go at a captor with a knife, but that's about it. I also don't understand why the Haqqanis would give two straws about whether or not JB joined them. The family's value was as potential bargaining chips, not as potential fighters. If there's a grain of truth in this, my guess is it has more to do with them wanting something they knew or believed JB might know about rival militant groups based on connections from his first marriage.

I do tend to think both that the kidnapping really was unconnected to Zaynab Khadar, and that both of them were actually captives; whatever abuse JB might have perpetrated on CC during their imprisonment, IMO, was separate from whatever the captors were doing to them. I also think he probably went to Afghanistan with ideas of meeting up with, if not joining, the Taliban. But based on the earlier article, it sounds like them getting kidnapped was actually a pretty predictable result of two Westerners walking into a dangerous area and shouting about their movements and intentions for everyone to hear.

Does anyone know what a typical sentence is for someone convicted on the kind of charges JB is being held on? I'm not asking for sentencing guidelines, since those are clearly going to yield a pretty hefty potential sentence if you add up the max for fifteen charges, but wondering what actually winds up being a typical outcome for someone held on a number of counts of DV including assault and sexual assault.

 

[Inthedetails]

“I know you probably have a bias that I’m foaming at the mouth, or crazy, cunning sociopath or whatever it is that you’ve imagined me to be,” wrote Boyle in an email on Oct. 28. “(I) really don’t care what the media thinks about me,”

Fascinating. IMO, we didn't imagine him to be a sociopath - he is one. And he speaks of "blacklisting" the CBC (which has been sceptical about him all along) even though he doesn't care what the media (whom he reached out to) thinks of him.

He makes a point of contacting the media to say he doesn't care about the media?
Well, that speaks loudly.

Any upcoming trials and sentencing can be "Part 2" of the book, I suppose. And/or a jail sentence might put him in position to do some recruiting??

jmopinion, speculation only

 

[Intermezzo]

True - there might have been women to help her. But my overall reaction to all this is that her husband tortured her through manipulation and putting her in that situation . She was used by him from the start, jmo.

BBM
I agree

 

[nuff]

True - there might have been women to help her. But my overall reaction to all this is that her husband tortured her through manipulation and putting her in that situation . She was used by him from the start, jmo.

Sheer speculation, of course, but what if she decided when they got to Afghanistan that she'd had enough of "backpacking" and wanted to leave, but JB staged the hostage-taking to keep her there. And then brainwashed her and kept her pregnant. IMO, of course. Comparing her pictures pre-trip to the beaten-down emaciated woman who was rescued is so sad.

 

[nuff]

Any upcoming trials and sentencing can be "Part 2" of the book, I suppose. And/or a jail sentence might put him in position to do some recruiting??

jmopinion, speculation only

Were/are his goals recruitment, or to make a name for himself and make money on book/film? I'm more inclined to think it's the latter? I don't buy that there is anything genuine about this man, including his professed beliefs. (More speculation, as there is no way to know for sure.)

 

[SybilMoss]

Does anyone know what a typical sentence is for someone convicted on the kind of charges JB is being held on? I'm not asking for sentencing guidelines, since those are clearly going to yield a pretty hefty potential sentence if you add up the max for fifteen charges, but wondering what actually winds up being a typical outcome for someone held on a number of counts of DV including assault and sexual assault.

It is hard to estimate exactly - domestic assault is supposed to carry higher penalties than assaulting a stranger. We do have min/max sentencing for some of the hybrid crimes (what Americans would deem Felonies). We also generally have consectutive vs concurrent sentences. It is also usual to plead down some of the charges. I have no doubt his family will be working the "he is mentally ill, he knows not what he does" angle based on his brother Dan's statement but I doubt he falls under the Not criminally responsible (insane) defense, although I expect mental health assessment/treatment will be part of his rehabilitation, with the recognition that he most likely has a personality disorder/sociopathy rather than a more treatable disorder.

Each Assault - min 6 months jail or $5,000 fine to 5 years jail
Each Sexual Assault - min 18 months jail or $2,000 fine to 10 years jail
Uttering Threats - min 18 months jail or $5,000 fine to 5 years jail

Looking at the totality of the charges, that he is a first time offender but that the charges are quite serious I would expect him to plea deal and get around 5 years, so maybe two years plus a day behind actual bars and then supervised release into the community and being on the Sex Offenders list for ten years. His father is a judge, so he will know how to manipulate this proceeding to JB's benefit.

From one type of captivity to another. Must be interesting for JB now to once again be confined and have restricted movement, but this time he doesn't have the "moral authority" to feel righteous about or engage in petty power plays.

I'm so proud of CC, I am sure pressing charges was very difficult for her.

 

[Inthedetails]

Were/are his goals recruitment, or to make a name for himself and make money on book/film? I'm more inclined to think it's the latter? I don't buy that there is anything genuine about this man, including his professed beliefs. (More speculation, as there is no way to know for sure.)

I have no idea other than admittedly wild speculation....but recruitment to "his cause" whatever his cause is (which I can't figure out). He would have a captive (literally) audience in prison for him to work with and recruit to his way of thinking. I'm sure there are vulnerable minds he could manipulate. He could form a following in prison that he might not able able to achieve in the real word.

Again, this is speculation and based on my low opinion of him.

jmo

 

[waschbaer]

“I know you probably have a bias that I’m foaming at the mouth, or crazy, cunning sociopath or whatever it is that you’ve imagined me to be,”

This is a tactic. I remember Gavin DeBecker talking about it. If he beats them to the punch by saying they think he is a sociopath, they will be shamed out of openly accusing him and then second-guess themselves. That's the idea at least.

 

[Inthedetails]

“I know you probably have a bias that I’m foaming at the mouth, or crazy, cunning sociopath or whatever it is that you’ve imagined me to be,”

This is a tactic. I remember Gavin DeBecker talking about it. If he beats them to the punch by saying they think he is a sociopath, they will be shamed out of openly accusing him and then second-guess themselves. That's the idea at least.

He's playing the part of a persecuted, misunderstood, victim.

jmo

 

[Lilibet]

“I know you probably have a bias that I’m foaming at the mouth, or crazy, cunning sociopath or whatever it is that you’ve imagined me to be,”

This is a tactic. I remember Gavin DeBecker talking about it. If he beats them to the punch by saying they think he is a sociopath, they will be shamed out of openly accusing him and then second-guess themselves. That's the idea at least.

Yes, you are exactly right that shaming someone out of listening to their inner voice is a tactic Gavin De Becker talks about in “The Gift of Fear.” I recommend this book a lot on threads. For anyone unfamiliar with it, here is the first chilling chapter. Although the book could have used tighter editing and can be a bit of a slog, it is information that could save lives.

JB was clearly using that tactic to disarm his interviewer. I don’t think he succeeded, but I suspect that CC was a victim of his techniques, described so well in this chapter. This could happen to anyone, no matter how smart and savvy they are, if they tune out and turn down the gift of fear.

http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/b/becker-fear.html

 

[Jealoushe]

It is hard to estimate exactly - domestic assault is supposed to carry higher penalties than assaulting a stranger. We do have min/max sentencing for some of the hybrid crimes (what Americans would deem Felonies). We also generally have consectutive vs concurrent sentences. It is also usual to plead down some of the charges. I have no doubt his family will be working the "he is mentally ill, he knows not what he does" angle based on his brother Dan's statement but I doubt he falls under the Not criminally responsible (insane) defense, although I expect mental health assessment/treatment will be part of his rehabilitation, with the recognition that he most likely has a personality disorder/sociopathy rather than a more treatable disorder.

Each Assault - min 6 months jail or $5,000 fine to 5 years jail
Each Sexual Assault - min 18 months jail or $2,000 fine to 10 years jail
Uttering Threats - min 18 months jail or $5,000 fine to 5 years jail

Looking at the totality of the charges, that he is a first time offender but that the charges are quite serious I would expect him to plea deal and get around 5 years, so maybe two years plus a day behind actual bars and then supervised release into the community and being on the Sex Offenders list for ten years. His father is a judge, so he will know how to manipulate this proceeding to JB's benefit.

From one type of captivity to another. Must be interesting for JB now to once again be confined and have restricted movement, but this time he doesn't have the "moral authority" to feel righteous about or engage in petty power plays.

I'm so proud of CC, I am sure pressing charges was very difficult for her.

My guess is a year minus time served. The Canadian justice system is a joke.

My ex bf tried to kill me, he had 23 charges from that incident including 16 weapons charges and he had a weapons ban. He was already on probation. He was also charged with overcoming resistance to choking, along with domestic assault, uttering threats, etc. He plead guilty and was given 20 months - time served. This was his third domestic assault charge (news to me at the time). This guy won`t spend more than a year in jail, if that.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

I have no idea other than admittedly wild speculation....but recruitment to "his cause" whatever his cause is (which I can't figure out). He would have a captive (literally) audience in prison for him to work with and recruit to his way of thinking. I'm sure there are vulnerable minds he could manipulate. He could form a following in prison that he might not able able to achieve in the real word.

Again, this is speculation and based on my low opinion of him.

jmo

His "cause" is his romantic, delusional view of Islamic jihad.

 

[MaryG12]

His "cause" is his romantic, delusional view of Islamic jihad.

The way I see it, if someone wants to take up a meaningful, life-changing cause, what NOT to do is join ISL, Taliban, or the latest terrorist group du jour.

Get locally involved with a cause, volunteer work can do amazing things for one's soul.

 

[Inspektor Clueso]

I'm just holding my breath and waiting for Trudeau to shower him with a *advertiser censored*-ton of money and an apology .....:shame:

 

[lonetraveler]

Who says her husband didn't hold her hostage for five years, contiuned the behavior when he returned and was finally reported.

Yes, this! My thoughts exactly.

 

[bornofposeidon]

I'm just holding my breath and waiting for Trudeau to shower him with a *advertiser censored*-ton of money and an apology .....:shame:

In 2010 the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that Omar Khadr had his human rights violated during his stay in Guantanamo Bay. Canadian officials were both aware of and active in the participation of the torture Khadr is said to have experienced. It is illegal to use torture as a means to interrogate prisoners. And because torture was used as a way to interrogate Khadr the Supreme Court said he was to receive a payout; it wasn't because Trudeau just felt like giving some guy $10,000,000.

Stephen Harper was the Canadian Prime Minister when Maher Arar also received a cheque for $10,000,000 under similar circumstances but I don't see any mention of his name in your post.

 

[Hatfield]

True - there might have been women to help her. But my overall reaction to all this is that her husband tortured her through manipulation and putting her in that situation . She was used by him from the start, jmo.

JMO
I agree. I cant shake the feeling that he somehow colluded with others over there to try to "fake" the whole kidnapping ordeal to try to get money given to both himself and the others that helped him in the scheme.

It all comes across like an international telemarketing scam except with him using his wife as the bait and using being kidnapped as the vehicle to obtain money.

It could have started out that way and when his "partners in crime" realized more about this person they realized he is off his rocker and so they really did lock him up and cut him out of the attempted money making. Then when they realized no money was coming and the news got too hot they just let him go.

I tend to think something along these lines because I have never heard of a terrorist hostage victim begin to argue with their own kidnappers and have as much power in how he was treated as he claims to have had.
If he pulled 1/2 of the stuff he said he tried to pull with "real terrorists", they would have cut his head off before he got the next word out.

 

[human]

I do not get it. Why did the Taliban or whatever group simply not disappear him?

They kill women and children. Why keep him alive?

 

[Inthedetails]

I do not get it. Why did the Taliban or whatever group simply not disappear him?

They kill women and children. Why keep him alive?

That's what I wonder too.

We're missing a big ol' chunk of info, imo.

 

[SybilMoss]

Argh, my apologies I misspoke upthread and want to corrrect myself: We also generally have concurrent vs consecutive sentences - not the other way 'round as I said. Apologies!