CAR SEAT discussion

[annahanna]

LambChop's post above is the first time I have seen a definite statement of Cooper's height. (I may well have missed other references to height. I have followed this sad story, but not as closely as many.) If he was 34" tall, it is highly unlikely that all of the excess 4" in height was in his legs. The seat he was in was made for infants under 30" in length. While I think that it is possible for a 31" or even a 32" child to have 1" of carseat shell above his head, I believe that would be unlikely in a normally proportioned 34" child.

 

[Ruby]

LambChop's post above is the first time I have seen a definite statement of Cooper's height. (I may well have missed other references to height. I have followed this sad story, but not as closely as many.) If he was 34" tall, it is highly unlikely that all of the excess 4" in height was in his legs. The seat he was in was made for infants under 30" in length. While I think that it is possible for a 31" or even a 32" child to have 1" of carseat shell above his head, I believe that would be unlikely in a normally proportioned 34" child.

IIRC - Cooper's height and weight has not been disclosed. In one of the video reenactments (Nancy Grace's or Randy Travis's) it even states that.
Again IIRC - I think Cooper's head was about 1" above car seat level. I believe that was from the probable cause hearing.

All this going by memory - I could be wrong - I would try and link, but not that tech savvy.
I'm lucky I can reply with quote, and just learned the multiple quote in one thread.

 

[annahanna]

IIRC - Cooper's height and weight has not been disclosed. In one of the video reenactments (Nancy Grace's or Randy Travis's) it even states that.
Again IIRC - I think Cooper's head was about 1" above car seat level. I believe that was from the probable cause hearing.

All this going by memory - I could be wrong - I would try and link, but not that tech savvy.
I'm lucky I can reply with quote, and just learned the multiple quote in one thread.

At the probable cause hearing, the detective testified that Cooper exceeded the manufacturer's recommended height limit by several inches. In reality, over 97% of 22 month old boys in the US would exceed that height limit according to the most recently updated US infant growth charts. (A boy who was 31" would be in the bottom 3rd percentile in height.) http://www.cdc.gov/growthcharts/data/set2clinical/cj41cs067bw.pdf

There has been no indication that Cooper was unusually small for age. Considering his father's height, it would be surprising if Cooper was below average or 50% percentile. Using both the manufacturer's recommendations and the "1 inch rule" I can't find any way that the car seat in use that day had been an appropriate fit for Cooper for many months and possibly as long as a year.

 

[Ruby]

At the probable cause hearing, the detective testified that Cooper exceeded the manufacturer's recommended height limit by several inches. In reality, over 97% of 22 month old boys in the US would exceed that height limit according to the most recently updated US infant growth charts. (A boy who was 31" would be in the bottom 3rd percentile in height.) http://www.cdc.gov/growthcharts/data/set2clinical/cj41cs067bw.pdf

There has been no indication that Cooper was unusually small for age. Considering his father's height, it would be surprising if Cooper was below average or 50% percentile. Using both the manufacturer's recommendations and the "1 inch rule" I can't find any way that the car seat in use that day had been an appropriate fit for Cooper for many months and possibly as long as a year.

BBM:
Maybe this is how I got the impression Cooper's head was 1" above car seat?
It was a "1 inch rule" - I thought it was said Cooper's head was an inch above his car seat and several inches away from RH.
I'll have to try and watch pch again - I was going by memory. Thanks for the info

 

[ReadingMaven]

Thank you SO MUCH!! This helps a lot!

I'm sure the daycare has been asked if a car seat was left there everyday with Cooper for Leanna to use when she picked him up. I can't imagine that as a long term solution... The bigger car seats are bulky and a pain to carry and install, especially while carryin an attending to a toddler. I can not imagine doing that every day, or several days a week.

There's a photo somewhere of the reenactment LE did with RH's vehicle and the car seat, does anyone know if the hood was on the seat?

Newbie & Loyal Lurker here!
Here is a pic of Cooper's actual car seat during the LE reenactment. I think that the hood is attached but I can't tell how far it is raised, or if it is raised at all.

I really started thinking about the hood position after reading the above posts.

When my daughter was Cooper's age we had to push the hood back down behind the seat, out of her reach. If we didn't she would play with it and pull it up and down over and over again. This leads me to wonder if Cooper was able to reach and move the hood of his seat by himself.

IF Cooper could move it himself then it's possible that his little head was hidden from view in the morning when RH parked, but while he was left alone and getting agitated and hot he could have thrust it up; which would then have allowed RH to see his head during the afternoon drive to the movie theater even though he couldn't see it in the morning.

Personally that seems unlikely, but I'm just trying to imagine how in the world RH didn't catch a glimpse of that little platinum blonde head out of the corner of his eye that morning, or during the return trip to the car after lunch. Thanks for letting me share my thoughts and wonders and I hope I'm not repeating a topic that's been run into the ground already!!

 

[AuburnTxTiger]

Thanks for the info. Welcome to websleuths.

 

[Nore]

Hi Reading Maven!! :welcome4::fireworks2::wagon:



Glad to meet you!! wont belong and theboards will be
humming with Jodi trial. Look forward to it, Fun!! I
am one of the many insomniacs on the board..

 

[AuburnTxTiger]

Hi Reading Maven!! :welcome4::fireworks2::wagon:



Glad to meet you!! wont belong and theboards will be
humming with Jodi trial. Look forward to it, Fun!! I
am one of the many insomniacs on the board..

Even though I have only been here a month, I can imagine the fireworks when the Jodi trial begins! LOL Every day I watched Jodi's trial online because HLN had so many commercial breaks and didn't finish the trial until 2 hours after the trial had actually ended. I wish I had known about websleuths during the original Jodi trial and also during the Casey Anthony trial! I just learned today about my "ignore list"! LOL

 

[Hippiemomof5]

Newbie & Loyal Lurker here!
Here is a pic of Cooper's actual car seat during the LE reenactment. I think that the hood is attached but I can't tell how far it is raised, or if it is raised at all.

I really started thinking about the hood position after reading the above posts.

When my daughter was Cooper's age we had to push the hood back down behind the seat, out of her reach. If we didn't she would play with it and pull it up and down over and over again. This leads me to wonder if Cooper was able to reach and move the hood of his seat by himself.

IF Cooper could move it himself then it's possible that his little head was hidden from view in the morning when RH parked, but while he was left alone and getting agitated and hot he could have thrust it up; which would then have allowed RH to see his head during the afternoon drive to the movie theater even though he couldn't see it in the morning.

Personally that seems unlikely, but I'm just trying to imagine how in the world RH didn't catch a glimpse of that little platinum blonde head out of the corner of his eye that morning, or during the return trip to the car after lunch. Thanks for letting me share my thoughts and wonders and I hope I'm not repeating a topic that's been run into the ground already!!

View attachment 56175

:welcome:

It definitely seems to me as if the hood is down and out of the way of JRH's vision of CH's head. And JMO, but even if the hood is up, it's bright RED and stands out quite a bit!

 

[magnolia]

:welcome:

It definitely seems to me as if the hood is down and out of the way of JRH's vision of CH's head. And JMO, but even if the hood is up, it's bright RED and stands out quite a bit!

The carseat was in the car all the time. RH was accustomed to the red color.

 

[Sweetgrits]

Well, maybe that model is different than most--because I know my little one would have screamed bloody murder when his crotch got jammed up in there--and my boy was much smaller than Cooper was at that age. Regardless of whether he could fit in it or not, I think he was strapped in the back seat.

I've wondered about CH's size, can you tell me or give me a link where I can find Cooper's height and weight. TIA

 

[Elley Mae]

Here is an example with a 33" mannequin in a similar SUV and Cooper, I believe, was 34". You can see his feet would have been right up against the back seat. For a 6 minute ride probably not a big issue but clearly for a long trip it would have been very uncomfortable for the child.

bbm According to LambChop she believes he was 34"

 

[CCmakes3]

I've wondered about CH's size, can you tell me or give me a link where I can find Cooper's height and weight. TIA

I asked for this info upthread and the request was ignored so I am not sure.

 

[Ruby]

I asked for this info upthread and the request was ignored so I am not sure.

If I'm not mistaken (which I could be lol) - it has never been disclosed.

In the reenactment video - (IIRC the Nancy Grace one) the guy talking states - Cooper's exact measurements have not been disclosed. The dummy/mannequin used was in a percentile for Coopers age group.

I know I have posted this before - maybe it has been missed?

Maybe they can't give out details? HIPPA? Minor? On going investigation? :moo:

 

[Sweetgrits]

I asked for this info upthread and the request was ignored so I am not sure.

I haven't read it anywhere but I could definitely have missed it trying to catch up. But when Evie Ivy Over posted that Cooper was larger than her child at that age I wondered if there had been a mention of CH's size in any MSM that I hadn't seen.

 

[Hippiemomof5]

The carseat was in the car all the time. RH was accustomed to the red color.

While this is true, I'm speaking about if the hood was up over CH's head, there's just no way to miss that. Is there a way to argue that it had to, without a doubt, jog his memory that his son was in the backseat? Absolutely not. Anyway, moo, is that the hood was down because CH's head didn't fit comfortably with the hood up.

 

[AuburnTxTiger]

I have never heard. RH is 6' 2". LH isn't real tall 5' 3" maybe?
50 percentile on the boys growth chart for a 22mo old is 34 inches and 28#
CDC Boys growth chart 0-36 months
http://pediatrics.about.com/cs/growthcharts2/l/blboysbirth.htm
I would expect his height the be above 50% because RH was tall.

At 2 Years (most) boys are 1/2 of their adult height. Using that as a rule RH at 2 would have been about 37".

My guess 34"-35"

All posts are MOO

Thanks for researching this info.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

I haven't read it anywhere but I could definitely have missed it trying to catch up. But when Evie Ivy Over posted that Cooper was larger than her child at that age I wondered if there had been a mention of CH's size in any MSM that I hadn't seen.

Oh, the reason I make that assumption is because my child is in a very low percentile due to extreme prematurity; I'm almost certain Cooper would have been larger.

 

[tlcya]

have we seen the actual reenactment by LE? We know that Stoddard testified at the PCH that they used a dummy that was one to two inches shorter than Cooper's actual height and that the dummy used's head extended an inch or so above the edge of the carseat (if I am remembering right). But I have not seen it published anywhere exactly what Cooper's height was. Maybe I will meander back through the PCH and see if I can find that testimony and see if Stoddard gave the dimensions of the dummy used so we could then extrapolate the actual alleged height of Cooper.

 

[tlcya]

UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: Now, you're talking about -- we've seen the pictures of Cooper's car seat. I guess you know that -- how tall, how long Cooper was at the time of death.

STODDARD: Yes. I did.

UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: Did you get some type of demonstrative aid to help you and law enforcement see how a child would fit into that car seat?

STODDARD: We did.

UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: How would Cooper's head have appeared in that car seat?

STODDARD: The mannequin we chose was, you know, the same size. The head was clearly visible poking up over the car seat.

UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: And did that demonstrative aid, was that shorter than Cooper?

STODDARD: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: Did it have hair like Cooper had?

STODDARD: No.

UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: And after he got his laptop bag, did the defendant immediately get out of the car?

STODDARD: He did not.

UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: So after he parks, how long does the defendant sit in his car before he actually exits to go in the building?

STODDARD: It's around 30 seconds from the time he parks the vehicle to the time he gets out and shuts the door.

UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: So he's sitting in there 30 seconds?

STODDARD: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: Now, you talked about the defendant talking about his car seat and how it was the correct one, height, weight, things like that. Have you actually looked into this car seat and looked at the owner's manual?

STODDARD: I have.

UNIDENTIFIED PROSECUTOR: OK. Is he within the requirements or did Cooper exceed the requirements of the car seat?

STODDARD: He exceeded the requirements by several inches. No

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1407/03/wolf.02.html

darn, they do not give the height of eitehr mannequin or Cooper. Just that the mannequin they selected was "the same" height as Cooper, with further prompting from Prosecutor Stoddard states the mannequin was actually shorter than Cooper. Further that the mannequin was hairless (unlike Cooper) and that the mannequin's head was clearly visible above the edge of the seat. Lastly that Cooper exceeded the carseat manufacturer requirements by several inches.

Several inches is usually defined as "more than two but not many." http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/several

The keyfit30 carseat specs go up to 30 inches in height

3 Ensure Child is in Size Range
weight – 4-22 lbs
height – 30 inches or less

http://www.chiccousa.com/Files/pdf/product-manuals/KeyFit-Instructions-08.pdf

So assuming Stoddard's testimony is accurate then Cooper was between 33 to 36 inches tall.