Casey and Family Psych Profile #11

[miss plum]

very very bad situation.

What is this HORRIFIC thing she has been through or witnessed?

Accountability. At last. And look what happened.

 

[Just Jayla]

Bump, in light of Tricia's commentary on the show tonight. Tricia, you made me think-I certainly have my fly by night opinion of Cindy, but I never really thought of Cindy as KC's lifelong abuser, and maybe that's the case. Yes, yes, I figured CA was difficult to live with, but I never really quantified the depth of the mean spirited-ness as you described it.
Layne Staley has always sung KC's praises, to me:

Everyday, Something hits me all so cold
Find me sittin' by myself
No excuses that I know

I really have just chalked KC up to a cold, nasty individual in and of herself, no excuses for what she did and I can barely bring myself to look at it any other way no matter how hard I sit and wrack my brain-And while I still say no excuses for cold blooded murder, I have to wonder, how is a monster like her created absent some form of mental anguish?
Just selfishness and entitlement-that's ultimately where I end everytime, but you have made me contemplate...

 

[Whisperer]

I see kc as a pathological narcissist. The pathology is the problem. She may not even have an Axis I but if she does, I would bet it is Bipolar. She strikes me as obsessive complusive and borderline. My guess is she runs the rampet with cluster B's. I had the misfortune to work once with 14 Borderline females...a horrible job. Working with the criminally insane was a joy compared to a narcissistic borderline. They will test your sanity and then go a step further. I will never, never, ever work with them again. If you want to know what hell on earth is, it would be spending 8 hours a day with 14 Caseys.


Their mind can spin a web of evil very quickly. They play one staff against the other and they are good, real good. You never see it coming, even if you know how they operate. They use you and every word you say becomes imprinted and filed for future use to take down any perceived threats. They watch everything and don't miss a trick. I see ICA operating all day as a malignant narcissist. I've seen the title at Sam Vankin's site and that is the title I give to people who are severe Borderlines with narcissistic traits.

I have seen them destroy lives. They have had Psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers, etc fired. In fact, I think that is there joy in life. They love to see their power. I can't stress enough how sick and "evil" they can be.

 

[xin]

I see kc as a pathological narcissist. The pathology is the problem. She may not even have an Axis I but if she does, I would bet it is Bipolar. She strikes me as obsessive complusive and borderline. My guess is she runs the rampet with cluster B's. I had the misfortune to work once with 14 Borderline females...a horrible job. Working with the criminally insane was a joy compared to a narcissistic borderline. They will test your sanity and then go a step further. I will never, never, ever work with them again. If you want to know what hell on earth is, it would be spending 8 hours a day with 14 Caseys.

Thanks. Checking into the *clusters*, here are some indicators:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder#Cluster_A_.28odd_or_eccentric_disorders.29

 

[aussiesleuth]

I would love to know exactly what is going on in her head. So many times throughout this case, I have tried to put myself in her shoes, but obviously she doesn't think like normal people do. It's so frustrating. She just makes no sense in her actions or words.

 

[Just Jayla]

I would love to know exactly what is going on in her head. So many times throughout this case, I have tried to put myself in her shoes, but obviously she doesn't think like normal people do. It's so frustrating. She just makes no sense in her actions or words.

This is precisely why I am addicted-It's like a labrynth, and I feel that if I can somehow make my way to the center, I will know and gain some peace from understanding. I am a stubborn girl, but at some point I think I am going to have to admit that this will never make sense to me-and even if I could get to the center of it all, there will likely be no peace, only more sorrow.

 

[Whisperer]

The thing that we don't know is how did Cindy get the way she is? Her mother doesn't appear to be anything like her. We don't know what cindy's father is like. Cindy's brother Rick appears normal.

Cindy and KC are overrun with anxiety which is dealt with by their need to control others. In cindy's drive to maintain control, she abused casey. Casey was most likely an ODD and would not bend to her mother's demands.

To maintain an appearance of a perfect home, cindy worked all day and cleaned all night. She was probably a helicpoter parent. She is also a Drama Queen. If her kids did not look perfect, she would correct it. They had to look good for that is her stage. If they aren't beautiful or handsome or have a decent car, it would reflect on her.

With George, Cindy could still present well, after all he is a good-looking man. She also found out she could order him around so all was not lost with George. It appears GA gave up his family to be with cindy for we never once heard from them..

George has some issues also but cindy is there to cover them up or fix them. She is the ultimate fixer-upper. If she ever lets this role go, she will crumble for she is not as strong as she pretends to be. My guess is she is a co-dependent and can never be alone. She must have somebody living with her at all times.

I think GA may carry the Axis I in this family. He strikes me as a Bipolar type. This entire family is so ridden with anxiety that Xanax should probably sit right next to their salt and pepper shakers in the kitchen. One thing I learned about control freaks though is that they aren't ones who llike to take medications. They think they can handle that too..LOL.

 

[Whisperer]

I would love to know exactly what is going on in her head. So many times throughout this case, I have tried to put myself in her shoes, but obviously she doesn't think like normal people do. It's so frustrating. She just makes no sense in her actions or words.

You can take it to the bank that whatever it is ...it is a scheme of sorts. That is how they think...always scheming. You can't put yourself there because to do that you would have to become that. There mind is very tricky. In fact I keep struggling to find words to describe them..but God forbid if you ever have the misfortune to have to deal with them. The best word I just thought of, would be "Diabolical".

 

[aussiesleuth]

You can take it to the bank that whatever it is ...it is a scheme of sorts. That is how they think...always scheming. You can't put yourself there because to do that you would have to become that. There mind is very tricky. In fact I keep struggling to find words to describe them..but God forbid if you ever have the misfortune to have to deal with them. The best word I just thought of, would be "Diabolical".

You're right, but I just find it frustrating. Caylee was not the quintessential abused or neglected child. Hundreds of photos, home videos, beautiful outfits and an abundance of toys speak of a much loved child. Then this happens and suddenly Caylee seems to be last in their list of priorities. How did they switch off their love for her so easily? It's clear that they knew the truth from the moment they retrieved the car. They knew! Casey threw her away like trash, and the whole family has done the same ever since.

 

[shaye]

You can take it to the bank that whatever it is ...it is a scheme of sorts. That is how they think...always scheming. You can't put yourself there because to do that you would have to become that. There mind is very tricky. In fact I keep struggling to find words to describe them..but God forbid if you ever have the misfortune to have to deal with them. The best word I just thought of, would be "Diabolical".

Diabolical is exactly what Jesse told his dad about KC....he sure had her pegged unlike TL who it seems is not getting it. In his Depo he was talking about what a great girlfriend she was and to me that says a lot about the difference in Tony and Jesse's maturity level.

 

[shaye]

You're right, but I just find it frustrating. Caylee was not the quintessential abused or neglected child. Hundreds of photos, home videos, beautiful outfits and an abundance of toys speak of a much loved child. Then this happens and suddenly Caylee seems to be last in their list of priorities. How did they switch off their love for her so easily? It's clear that they knew the truth from the moment they retrieved the car. They knew! Casey threw her away like trash, and the whole family has done the same ever since.

It is very frustrating, I know I feel the same way and have racked my brain trying to figure these people out and I can't....it drives me crazy!! Whisperer is right, our minds don't work like that and I am very thankful for that.

 

[lowens1975]

Bump, in light of Tricia's commentary on the show tonight. Tricia, you made me think-I certainly have my fly by night opinion of Cindy, but I never really thought of Cindy as KC's lifelong abuser,

I always thought the 'family dynamics' of the A's would play a part in ICA's defense. Tricia was right when she stated she thought GA had been whipped down to a nub. That would explain his almost visceral response to JB's questioning the last time he was on the stand. ICA's way of dealing with CA was to coverup and lie, and when Caylee was born she learned to use her to her advantage, but I don't think ICA's so-called 'fear' of CA is what made her do it, it was a just her determination to do whatever she wanted to do in spite of her.

I don't think that bus is heading for GA at all, I'm beginning to think that it's heading for a head on collision with CA. And that's probably why the DT is fighting so hard to keep them both out of the courtroom. The DT is afraid that once that cat is out of the bag, CA will develop a mushroom cloud over her head and maybe do her best to push the blame back on ICA. It will be interesting to listen to CA's testimony if that happens.

 

[kaRN]

In CA's interview w/ the FBI while discussing the topic of the family's religious beliefs, CA offers up that LA lost his faith in God as a result of suffering from a dangerously low platelet count due to idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura (ITP), a side effect of Accutane.

In LA's civil depo, he rather casually mentions that he is colour blind. I think he said it in the context of being asked to identify something by colour.
Spontaneous colour blindness is another serious side effect of Accutane. Of course, he could have been born that way.

I have wondered if the Ants ever attempted to receive compensation from the mfr of Accutane on LA's behalf.

Losing your faith in God as a result of the side effects of an acne medication???? I think that lawsuit may be laughed out of court or they probably would try.

 

[logicalgirl]

Dr. Julieann Mitchell's take on Casey ( she hasn't examined/tested her)

http://nrs.blogtronix.net/NRS/18149


"To a sociopath, others are always expendable: family, friends, acquaintances. Once others have been bled dry, the sociopath moves on. Loyalty is not a part of who they are. They have no desire to change and no insight into their own behaviors and motivations. Caylee is missing, but Mom is partying and lying to both her friends and family about her daughter’s whereabouts.

Sociopaths are narcissistic and exhibitionistic, with no sense of shame. Nothing exists in their world but what they want - the ultimate “Me, Me, Me” syndrome. They are characterized by an excessive superficiality, in both thoughts and behaviors. They are easily bored and made restless by day-to-day responsibilities, an attitude which makes consistent parenting a drag and an impossibility. Sociopaths create their own reality, and in this instance, Casey’s world did not include her daughter."

It is exactly information like this, plus the many works of Dr. Robert Hare, whose specialization is Sociopaths and is a world renowned expert on the subject, plus the commercialization of the study of Sam Varkin, that has me saying to myself - WTH - when posters insists Cindy Anthony was running this family.

Not a chance with a Sociopath, no chance at all. What may very well have happened is that we are seeing the result of a person trying to keep chaos in a family somewhat corralled. And as a further result, CA has become the twisted hot mess she currently is. No way a person lives for twenty odd years with a sociopath and emerges as an individual with a "normal" emotional balance.

I do understand the laying of blame at CA's feet however! As observers who are emotionally invested in seeing retribution for this horrific crime, to us, CA has made herself a viable target. We want to see remorse, punishment and suffering for this terrible crime, and I think on some level we all know we'll never see this from ICA. And CA makes the next really easy target. And heaven knows, we do get a reaction from her.

It's just not enough for me - I'd like to see deeper more introspective and objective answers.

 

[TotallyObsessed]

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

It is exactly information like this, plus the many works of Dr. Robert Hare, whose specialization is Sociopaths and is a world renowned expert on the subject, plus the commercialization of the study of Sam Varkin, that has me saying to myself - WTH - when posters insists Cindy Anthony was running this family.

Not a chance with a Sociopath, no chance at all. What may very well have happened is that we are seeing the result of a person trying to keep chaos in a family somewhat corralled. And as a further result, CA has become the twisted hot mess she currently is. No way a person lives for twenty odd years with a sociopath and emerges as an individual with a "normal" emotional balance.

I do understand the laying of blame at CA's feet however! As observers who are emotionally invested in seeing retribution for this horrific crime, to us, CA has made herself a viable target. We want to see remorse, punishment and suffering for this terrible crime, and I think on some level we all know we'll never see this from ICA. And CA makes the next really easy target. And heaven knows, we do get a reaction from her.

It's just not enough for me - I'd like to see deeper more introspective and objective answers.

 

[feddup]

I'm not a psychiatrist, but from what I know and read about narcissistic personality disorder, IMO, I think that KC fits the criteria. I think that she is manipulates and lies to get what she wants. I think that she also has this "grandiose sense of self importance" and to me it appears obvious in the way that she has conducted herself with her family and friends, (i.e. lying about her jobs that she did not have). She has a strong sense of entitlement, as her attorney has asked for favorable treatment for her from the judge. She's exploitative of others and definitely lacks empathy.

I feel though that "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree" so to speak... as her mother has the same characteristics. IMO she was most likely raised by this strong type of personality (i.e. CA). However, as OLG has stated in a previous post and I agree with her, CA also has codependent characteristics. CA is very codependant on KC. She feels "compelled to help" KC solve her problems by offering unwanted advice about her case. She feels anxious and guilty over KC's problems (not about Caylee). It's like CA wonders why others aren't feeling the same way. That's why she became very angry with LE when she felt that their help wasn't effective for KC (not Caylee). It's a very sick relationship she has with KC. IMO, she has a narcissistic personality (as KC is an extension of herself) and codependant personality (she is enmeshed with KC).

Codependants are attracted to needy people, and IMO that's where GA comes in. He's a very needy person. He hasn't had a very stable work history in the past, depending on CA for support. IMO, it's not clear on where he stands with his feelings for justice for Caylee either, as a grandparent. In his interviews with LE, he tells of KC's lying and manipulations, the smell in the car, etc... but IMO becomes anxious and nervous to discuss these incidents in front of CA. He appears to be manipulated by CA, IMO.

Once again, I agree with OLG, I have thoughts about LA, but decline to elaborate.

I think GA tends to want to avoid arguing with "the wife" type of guy. My
Dad was same way. lol

 

[Frigga]

I posted this in the "Will Cindy, George, and Lee deny the abuse" thread but wanted to post it over here, It has been weighing on my mind for a long time now, so here goes:

Here is what sticks in my craw, I think there are a lot of different things (pathologies, personality disorders, narcissism, etc.)going on in this family, that I don't think that it is one thing (Casey is a sociopath) exclusive to all others (Cindy is a narcissist, co-dependant etc.). I personally think George may be Bipolar (temper issues, spotty job history- up and down personality), but that doesn't trump the fact that Casey may be a sociopath (I might be missing something but is there a rule that sociopaths or psychopaths are never potentially the victims of abuse, neglect, or sexual assaults?).

I think the conflict and confusion comes from trying to separate it all out. Casey can be all of the things many of us think about her, but does that mean George and Cindy or even Lee are mentally healthy because it is Casey who is the problem? What a perfect victim Casey would be (if someone was inappropriate with her)- she's a known liar and lives in a fantasy world- perpetrators can smell a victim like that a mile away. Even if she is a sociopath, when she was little how threatening do you think she was to her grown mother and father, family members, neighbors and friends? Because she is a sociopath she could never have been harmed by others- (not even saying a victim by the family)- An outsider would readily smell the overlapping dysfunction of a family such as this and could easily take advantage of the fact that this strange, lying child would never be believed.

This is why I have such a hard time with all of this overlapping symptomology (that's not even a word), but I hope someone gets my point?! Please... anyone? I don't think the issues in this family are simple or relative to only one family member... I think their issues are comingled and feed off of one another. Caylee was maybe the golden child... the hope for something new... and maybe her appearance here was brief, and to bring a bright light to spotlight this families illness and dysfunction- to put an end to it! This family will no longer be able to feed off of itself. Casey is going to jail or being put to death. Lee will be getting married, and hopefully will be moving on, and Cindy and George will make it together, or they won't, but this family will no longer function in the sick manner it did in the past.

If (and this is a big if) Casey was the only 'problem' in this otherwise 'normal' family and these grown adults (an ex cop and a nurse- both college educated) allowed this sociopathic daughter to control and wield unbridled power over society, her sibling, her aged Grandparents, and a defenseless child, all to keep Casey happy and contained (as everyone suggests people with a sociopath do) then that in and of itself is the weakest, sickest, most pathological thing I have heard, and George and Cindy should feel guilty for what happened to that baby and ashamed for what they allowed Casey to do... unabated and unrestrained and certainly not unknown to them- if that is the case.

Can't wait til tomorrow- maybe, just maybe, we will start to get some answers... some honest answers to the questions and disagreements that have plagued us for almost three years now.

 

[feddup]

It is exactly information like this, plus the many works of Dr. Robert Hare, whose specialization is Sociopaths and is a world renowned expert on the subject, plus the commercialization of the study of Sam Varkin, that has me saying to myself - WTH - when posters insists Cindy Anthony was running this family.

Not a chance with a Sociopath, no chance at all. What may very well have happened is that we are seeing the result of a person trying to keep chaos in a family somewhat corralled. And as a further result, CA has become the twisted hot mess she currently is. No way a person lives for twenty odd years with a sociopath and emerges as an individual with a "normal" emotional balance.

I do understand the laying of blame at CA's feet however! As observers who are emotionally invested in seeing retribution for this horrific crime, to us, CA has made herself a viable target. We want to see remorse, punishment and suffering for this terrible crime, and I think on some level we all know we'll never see this from ICA. And CA makes the next really easy target. And heaven knows, we do get a reaction from her.

It's just not enough for me - I'd like to see deeper more introspective and objective answers.

I agree. CA had been vilified and I think for yrs she mustve had to keep the fam together and sounds like she has shouldered alot, running back and forth to see her Dad in the nursing home, probably trying to console her Mother, working a full time job, probably watching Caylee alot, trying to et KC to be more responsible. Lee probably has been one who has kept her half way sane with all of the chaos. I think at this time of her life she must be thinking: what happened to my daughter???? And I am realy sure she misses Caylee. She just doesnt know what to do anymore.

 

[Solace]

I posted this in the "Will Cindy, George, and Lee deny the abuse" thread but wanted to post it over here, It has been weighing on my mind for a long time now, so here goes:

Here is what sticks in my craw, I think there are a lot of different things (pathologies, personality disorders, narcissism, etc.)going on in this family, that I don't think that it is one thing (Casey is a sociopath) exclusive to all others (Cindy is a narcissist, co-dependant etc.). I personally think George may be Bipolar (temper issues, spotty job history- up and down personality), but that doesn't trump the fact that Casey may be a sociopath (I might be missing something but is there a rule that sociopaths or psychopaths are never potentially the victims of abuse, neglect, or sexual assaults?).

I think the conflict and confusion comes from trying to separate it all out. Casey can be all of the things many of us think about her, but does that mean George and Cindy or even Lee are mentally healthy because it is Casey who is the problem? What a perfect victim Casey would be (if someone was inappropriate with her)- she's a known liar and lives in a fantasy world- perpetrators can smell a victim like that a mile away. Even if she is a sociopath, when she was little how threatening do you think she was to her grown mother and father, family members, neighbors and friends? Because she is a sociopath she could never have been harmed by others- (not even saying a victim by the family)- An outsider would readily smell the overlapping dysfunction of a family such as this and could easily take advantage of the fact that this strange, lying child would never be believed.

This is why I have such a hard time with all of this overlapping symptomology (that's not even a word), but I hope someone gets my point?! Please... anyone? I don't think the issues in this family are simple or relative to only one family member... I think their issues are comingled and feed off of one another. Caylee was maybe the golden child... the hope for something new... and maybe her appearance here was brief, and to bring a bright light to spotlight this families illness and dysfunction- to put an end to it! This family will no longer be able to feed off of itself. Casey is going to jail or being put to death. Lee will be getting married, and hopefully will be moving on, and Cindy and George will make it together, or they won't, but this family will no longer function in the sick manner it did in the past.

If (and this is a big if) Casey was the only 'problem' in this otherwise 'normal' family and these grown adults (an ex cop and a nurse- both college educated) allowed this sociopathic daughter to control and wield unbridled power over society, her sibling, her aged Grandparents, and a defenseless child, all to keep Casey happy and contained (as everyone suggests people with a sociopath do) then that in and of itself is the weakest, sickest, most pathological thing I have heard, and George and Cindy should feel guilty for what happened to that baby and ashamed for what they allowed Casey to do... unabated and unrestrained and certainly not unknown to them- if that is the case.

Can't wait til tomorrow- maybe, just maybe, we will start to get some answers... some honest answers to the questions and disagreements that have plagued us for almost three years now.

George is a college grad?

I am shocked because he talks like someone who just made it out of highschool. Uses double negatives all the time. I could trick this man in my sleep.

 

[Frigga]

Yep, as far as I can remember, BA in business admin/ minor in art something or other.