Casey and Family Psych Profile #11

[PeteyGirl]

Keith Ablow- yep, another WTF are you?! out there spouting whatever.

On his list of "troubling" behaviors by George- that George was there when Caylee was born. Well, yay, George!! Not many men of his generation would have had the guts to do that).

Memo to Mr. Ablow: when present at a birthing, it is customary to watch the portal where baby human beings emerge into the world. George was staring at his daughter's vagina, that portal, in anticipation of one of the most amazing things it is possible to witness... new life.

I wrote Ablow's psychological "insights" off after I saw that he couldn't grasp even that most fundamental of human realities.

Both my father AND my step-father were present at my son's birth. And neither of them were down there staring into the portal of anticipation. They were plastered to the wall behind me sharing a pint, I think.

I dunno . . . watching a vagina dilate and produce an infant has nothing remotely sexual to it. At that point, a little hole must somehow provide passage for an 8 pound kid that looks, and feels, too impossibly big.

That's a dumb pronouncement from a shrink who was smokin' cigars while his wife labored in pain with their children, or who passed out when he saw the episiotomy scissors or some such.

A specious accusation against George, one I have to try hard to even call an accusation . . .

 

[PeteyGirl]

The entire family lacks empathy, except possibly Lee IMO. Cindy seemed to view her family as actors in her play of the perfect family. George & Casey are both narcissistic & totally lack impulse control.

I have trouble thinking Casey is borderline, only because IMO she goes beyond that with her totally preditorial sadistic nature. She hurt people for fun, not just when it benefited her. Is that consistant with BPD?

The committee who writes up the DSM is revamping the personality disorder classifications. I agree with what they propose to do (like I have any say, but anyway :crazy: ). What I'm understanding, with this new diagnostic criteria, is that one could be assigned a Borderline Personality diagnosis, but with detailed sub-diagnoses to account for more of their behavior disorders. Sort of like a more "personalized" diagnosis.

I'm a nurse, not a diagnostician, but Casey meets all the criteria for Antisocial PD, except for the childhood acting out that could only be provided by honest parents. Which we don't have.

A shrink won't apply ASPD to a person who does not meet a certain number of the criteria. That's the rule. Hopefully, the new diagnostic criteria catch up those who fall outside the too rigid current ones.

Not that they have a good idea of what to DO with them, unless they want help.

 

[Justin Tyme]

What's disappointing is that the "experts" who have interviewed her and examined her for disorders have said she is without any. :sick:

And people wonder why we have a high crime rate!

Being that the experts who have examined her state that she's mentally sound leads us to only one conclusion = She's just plain EVIL.
I personally believe that some people are born evil. It's not an illness, it's just who they are. Giving it a medical term/name doesn't make it any less evil. Trying to treat these type of people I feel is useless. It's like trying to undo 25 years of who she is. I don't think that it can be done. I think that people like her can be medicated in order to keep their tempers in check, things such as that. But most people like her don't think that there's anything wrong with themselves and will stop taking the med's. That's just my opinion. Casey Anthony should be a good case study of why not to spoil your children and to hold them accountable for their actions. She was a cuddled, spoiled brat. You see what happened when after 20 something years someone decided to put their foot down and hold her accountable. It was way too little and way too late. She is who she is. Not only will she be running from society for the rest of life, she'll be running from herself. But no matter where she goes, there she'll be. Perhaps it's because she's such a spiteful *****. If you ask me, she has her Karma sitting in her head. She'll see her Karma every time she's in her families presence. She'll have no Bella Velveta life.

 

[OneLostGrl]

[/B]

Well, first of all, the "mental health community" did not come up with the diagnostic criteria - a small group of professionals in NA and Europe did.
The "mental health community" has simply adopted those tools.

A sociopaths responses are highly manipulative, and they have the ability to answer as they "should" or "believe they should" answer, which in itself if a measuring tool. But a measuring tool in itself is not a standalone diagnosis, a life behavioural observation goes hand in hand. In other words, talk is cheap, what counts is what the person has "done" and continues to do that defies the test results.

oops, Excuse me.. mental health committee.

 

[Hope4More]

PeteyGirl-

Both my father AND my step-father were present at my son's birth. And neither of them were down there staring into the portal of anticipation. They were plastered to the wall behind me sharing a pint, I think.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Well said!

 

[GiantPickle]

my Dad was there when i gave birth too....he was up by my shoulders

 

[Aedrys]

Both my father AND my step-father were present at my son's birth. And neither of them were down there staring into the portal of anticipation. They were plastered to the wall behind me sharing a pint, I think.

I dunno . . . watching a vagina dilate and produce an infant has nothing remotely sexual to it. At that point, a little hole must somehow provide passage for an 8 pound kid that looks, and feels, too impossibly big.

That's a dumb pronouncement from a shrink who was smokin' cigars while his wife labored in pain with their children, or who passed out when he saw the episiotomy scissors or some such.

A specious accusation against George, one I have to try hard to even call an accusation . . .

ITA, and George does NOTHING without Cindy's approval. I would think she and Casey would have wanted him there. I just cannot see him bullying his way into a delivery room to stare at Casey's stuff while she gives birth. That is just ridiculous. I think this was said to make him look bad. I don't like him, but I don't believe this for a second about him either.

 

[bayouland]

ITA, and George does NOTHING without Cindy's approval. I would think she and Casey would have wanted him there. I just cannot see him bullying his way into a delivery room to stare at Casey's stuff while she gives birth. That is just ridiculous. I think this was said to make him look bad. I don't like him, but I don't believe this for a second about him either.

Agree. FCA allows her molesting father to observe her giving birth?????
NOT. He didn't molest her or view her body parts during birth. I just don't believe it.

 

[logicalgirl]

What's disappointing is that the "experts" who have interviewed her and examined her for disorders have said she is without any. :sick:

And people wonder why we have a high crime rate!

Hey! The Defense Team got what they paid for! How many high priced shrinks examined her and walked away? I seem to remember a visitor list that included quite a few before one or two "stuck" - don't you?

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Hey! The Defense Team got what they paid for! How many high priced shrinks examined her and walked away? I seem to remember a visitor list that included quite a few before one or two "stuck" - don't you?

I don't know that would be good to have that info.

Here is one, but he was ready to go to bat for her in court:

A forensic psychologist who examined Casey Anthony said she did not show any signs of a psychotic or thought disorder.
Dr. William Weitz said Anthony did not meet all of the formal criteria of any one personality disorder, such as being a sociopath.
In a one-on-one interview with Local 6 reporter Tony Pipitone, Weitz shed light of where the defense may have gone if Anthony had been convicted of first-degree murder.
Last week, Anthony was found not guilty of murder in her daughter, Caylee’s, death.
Wetiz involvement in the case was made public in March when Anthony’s defense team disclosed it wanted to use him as a witness.
“I basically was asked to do a psychological consultation and to provide information to the defense and they would make a determination if they were going to use any of it,” Weitz said.
The defense withdrew Weitz as a witness when the state showed that using him would open the door for it to have its own expert examine Anthony.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/28537940/detail.html

It's interesting he says she did not meet ALL criteria, when the fact of the matter is that one doesn't need to meet all criteria to be labeled a sociopath.

MOO.

 

[PeteyGirl]

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/28537940/detail.html

Dr. William Weitz said Anthony did not meet all of the formal criteria of any one personality disorder, such as being a sociopath.

Not meeting the NUMBER of necessary criteria prevents the diagnosis. If you review the DSM IV-R, you'll see that formal diagnosis depends upon "at least *advertiser censored* number of criteria" being checked off.

That FCA met a number of those criteria without having the requisite "number" of them is a recognized limitation of the DSM IV-R. The diagnostic criteria are being revamped for the 2013 DSM V.

Psychiatrists are simply following the rules. They'll have different "rules" that will hopefully revamp the conceptualization of personality disorders in a few years. In the meantime, it's clear Casey Anthony is sociopathic, whether or not she gets the formal diagnosis. It's clear she's narcissistic, which is just part and parcel of being sociopathic.

The courts, understandably, can only use a formal diagnosis as "evidence".

Not that a formal diagnosis of ANY personality disorder would have qualified FCA for an insanity defense. Personality disorders do not include insanity as a symptom, they are very UNinsane. FCA was completely in touch with external, consensual reality.

Dr Weitz was hired by the DT. His goal was to determine an insanity diagnosis that would legally absolve or mitigate the charges against FCA. He couldn't even accomplish this via a PTSD diagnosis, without inviting the prosecution in to utterly demolish it.

No problem, FCA had no mental disorder that absolved her, legally, from responsibility for her daughter's death, so why bother?

 

[HatesSociopaths]

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/28537940/detail.html



Not meeting the NUMBER of necessary criteria prevents the diagnosis. If you review the DSM IV-R, you'll see that formal diagnosis depends upon "at least *advertiser censored* number of criteria" being checked off.

That FCA met a number of those criteria without having the requisite "number" of them is a recognized limitation of the DSM IV-R. The diagnostic criteria are being revamped for the 2013 DSM V.

Psychiatrists are simply following the rules. They'll have different "rules" that will hopefully revamp the conceptualization of personality disorders in a few years. In the meantime, it's clear Casey Anthony is sociopathic, whether or not she gets the formal diagnosis. It's clear she's narcissistic, which is just part and parcel of being sociopathic.

The courts, understandably, can only use a formal diagnosis as "evidence".

Not that a formal diagnosis of ANY personality disorder would have qualified FCA for an insanity defense. Personality disorders do not include insanity as a symptom, they are very UNinsane. FCA was completely in touch with external, consensual reality.

Dr Weitz was hired by the DT. His goal was to determine an insanity diagnosis that would legally absolve or mitigate the charges against FCA. He couldn't even accomplish this via a PTSD diagnosis, without inviting the prosecution in to utterly demolish it.

No problem, FCA had no mental disorder that absolved her, legally, from responsibility for her daughter's death, so why bother?

The video at your link provides an interview of Dr Weitz and it sheds a little light on what the strategy for using him probably was by the defense. He was on the witness list, ready to testify, but was taken off when it was countered by the DA that they could have their own expert interview Anthony. He then was part of the plan if she was found guilty.

What the original plan appeared to be was to use Dr Weitz to show how GA's alleged sexual abuse explains her later behavior. So he was brought in, paid well, and he was basically there to back up their conjured up story of sexual abuse to help get her off.

"It is very difficult to cope with those experiences and so, traditionally, I have seen over many, many years of practice that individuals typically respond in certain defined ways, and some of those ways have to do with repression and denial of the event, detachment of emotions," Weitz said.
Anthony went dancing and got a tattoo in the weeks following her daughter's death in June 2008.
"What is known is she suffered many losses, significant losses, and so, obviously, the issue of trauma and reactions to trauma could be explored as a reasonable psychological consideration," Weitz said.
Weitz said he had two lengthy visits with Anthony in the Orange County Jail since he was first contacted about the case in late 2009.

In the video it mentions there was another psychologist as well, and that name appears to be Dr. Harry Krop.

Dr. Drew Pinsky welcomed Dr. Harry Krop to his show, and began his inquiry asking whether he found Casey to be mentally ill.

“I do not believe – based on all of my interactions with her, as well as the psychological testing, I don’t believe that she has any diagnosable mental illness,” said Krop. “She has always been competent to proceed from the initial stages of my involvement, all the way through to the end of the trial.”

He added, “...when I’m referring to mental illness, I’m referring to a psychiatric or a psychological disorder. A person must meet certain behavioral criteria to be actually diagnosed with a mental illness.”

...

Pinsky then asked, “Does she have what we call borderline traits or sociopathic traits?” to which Krop responded, “No...”

Pinsky proclaimed, “That’s impossible! I can’t believe that... Doctor. I can’t believe that... She has created a vortex. She is a chronic liar. She is engaging in criminal behavior... How is that possible?”

Krop answered, “She’s an intelligent woman, but basically an extremely immature woman... I didn’t get involved in the case until November of 2010, when I was requested to evaluate her for specifically the purpose of possibly testifying at her sentencing phase if she were convicted. So I did not see the Casey that is shown on the TV and... some of the videos and the recordings when she talked to her mother.”

Continue reading on Examiner.com Psychologist tells HLN's Dr. Drew that Casey Anthony did not likely abuse Caylee - National Crime | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-na...ony-did-not-likely-abuse-caylee#ixzz1Zp38NGCs

Call me naive but I get the impression these two actually believe what they are saying. It is a sad comment on a profession when its prominent members can't properly do what it is asked to do. The notion that it is because they were paid well by the defense is not a mitigating circumstance, frankly it only exacerbates it. And that has been the case for centuries, dating back to the Salem witch trials.

Thankfully there are some good ones here and there.

MOO.

 

[logicalgirl]

The video at your link provides an interview of Dr Weitz and it sheds a little light on what the strategy for using him probably was by the defense. He was on the witness list, ready to testify, but was taken off when it was countered by the DA that they could have their own expert interview Anthony. He then was part of the plan if she was found guilty.

What the original plan appeared to be was to use Dr Weitz to show how GA's alleged sexual abuse explains her later behavior. So he was brought in, paid well, and he was basically there to back up their conjured up story of sexual abuse to help get her off.



In the video it mentions there was another psychologist as well, and that name appears to be Dr. Harry Krop.



Call me naive but I get the impression these two actually believe what they are saying. It is a sad comment on a profession that can't properly do what it is asked to do. The notion that it is because they were paid well by the defense is not a mitigating circumstance, frankly it only exacerbates it. And that has been the case for centuries, dating back to the Salem witch trials. MOO.

Poor Dr. Drew was beside himself with that statement from Dr. Krop. It was only "professional respect" I think that stopped him from tearing Dr. Krop apart on his show because of his diagnosis. But he was an "interesting" person to watch.....:floorlaugh:

 

[txsvicki]

I thought seeming to be immature for one's age was also a symptom of personality disorders. How any Dr. can say that chronic stealing, pretty elaborate plots, and that all those lies are just immaturity is ridiculous. Not to mention the fooling of Jesse G. into thinking he was the daddy, the lies about Caylee's daddy, what happened to Amy with the so called sleep walking, and the manipulation of the Anthony's. The going ape about losing a baby at a party could possibly have been personality disorder related psychosis for all that dr. knows, as well as all the tales of George's illnesses and marital troubles. I've read that occasional psychotic episodes goes along with some personality disorders.

 

[HMSHood]

I thought seeming to be immature for one's age was also a symptom of personality disorders. How any Dr. can say that chronic stealing, pretty elaborate plots, and that all those lies are just immaturity is ridiculous. Not to mention the fooling of Jesse G. into thinking he was the daddy, the lies about Caylee's daddy, what happened to Amy with the so called sleep walking, and the manipulation of the Anthony's. The going ape about losing a baby at a party could possibly have been personality disorder related psychosis for all that dr. knows, as well as all the tales of George's illnesses and marital troubles. I've read that occasional psychotic episodes goes along with some personality disorders.

Immaturity can be a sign of a personality disorder, notably antisocial, borderline, histrionic, and narcissistic. Psychopaths are immature. Another person who is immature is Lori Drew, which I have said in the past is an analog to Casey Anthony besides Diane Downs. There is a debate that Anthony may or may not have BPD. This quote came up about Lori Drew.

What has also been interesting is the apparent lack of empathy or remorse displayed by Drew in the aftermath of the suicide, again demonstrating at least a significant lack of emotional maturity, if not a symptom of an actual personality disorder.

Brief Update - Lori Drew and the MySpace Cyber-Bullying Trial
http://www.wellsphere.com/mental-he...w-and-the-myspace-cyber-bullying-trial/560096

 

[Leila]

Hey! The Defense Team got what they paid for! How many high priced shrinks examined her and walked away? I seem to remember a visitor list that included quite a few before one or two "stuck" - don't you?

There was also an initial psychiatric report after her arrest on July 16, 2008. When she appeared at the bond hearing of July 22, 2008, she had already been seen by a psychiatrist who wrote a report for the court. If she was going to be bonded out, the court wanted to make sure they weren't allowing someone to be bonded out who was a danger to themselves or others. Jose Baez immediately requested that the psychiatrist's report be sealed, and Judge Strickland had it sealed.

I've always felt that there was something in that report that the defense didn't want to be made public. Why else would you seal it?

 

[LambChop]

There was also an initial psychiatric report after her arrest on July 16, 2008. When she appeared at the bond hearing of July 22, 2008, she had already been seen by a psychiatrist who wrote a report for the court. If she was going to be bonded out, the court wanted to make sure they weren't allowing someone to be bonded out who was a danger to themselves or others. Jose Baez immediately requested that the psychiatrist's report be sealed, and Judge Strickland had it sealed.

I've always felt that there was something in that report that the defense didn't want to be made public. Why else would you seal it?

Makes you think that this could have been where JS's comment came from about the truth. Maybe from the report he knew there was no way they would get the truth from her. jmo

 

[strawberry]

@bobkealing
bob kealing
The @orlandosentinel has filed a motion to unseal reports issued by psychiatrists who examined #CaseyAnthony. Interested?

 

[Knot4u2no]

@bobkealing
bob kealing
The @orlandosentinel has filed a motion to unseal reports issued by psychiatrists who examined #CaseyAnthony. Interested?

Yes.
Russell

 

[strawberry]

Yes.
Russell

ME too!