Casey & Family Psychological Profile #2

[Brini]

Just my opinion-there has been much said about KC and her numerous relationships with guys. On the "who is the bio dad thread" there is talk of incest being at the root of KC's behavior.

I think it is very possible her promiscuous behavior could have began as a way to get approval. She may not have gotten the acceptance and approval she required to develop a healthy self-image. I AM NOT MAKING EXCUSES FOR HER BAHAVIOR. JMO

YES! And, sociopaths are often promiscuous, too.

 

[Brini]

I am usually a prosecution minded person and believe LE and the FBI are the good guys MOST of the time. BUT having been around for sometime....I now know that is not always the case.

One case in particular, keeps poking me in the ribs....and reminds me that media reports ....aka leaks by "sources close to the case" are often prosecution psychological warfare, and out and out LIES!

The case that keeps sticking me......... Sabrina Aisenberg...
Also please note who the prosecution hopped into bed with.... Anthony Pellicano!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


http://reports.tbo.com/reports/sabrina/timeline.htm

October 17, 2000: A federal magistrate rules that sheriff's detectives might have lied or at least distorted facts to get court approval for the bugs. He orders a Nov. 13 hearing on the issue.


December 13, 2000: The public gets its first chance to hear the audio tapes from the Aisenberg bugging when 30 minutes of the tapes are played in court.
December 18, 2000: Magistrate Mark Pizzo says that the audio tapes enhanced by prosecution expert Anthony Pellicano actually sound worse than the original copies.
December 20, 2000: An FBI agent testifies that the FBI believed that the Aisenbergs may have sold Sabrina, but that their investigation of financial records produced nothing.
December 22, 2000: Hearings to determine whether taped conversations of Marlene and Steve Aisenberg should be used as evidence against them end.

February 14, 2001: A federal magistrate recommends that the bugged conversations at the heart of the government's case against Steve and Marlene Aisenberg be thrown out.

Yeah, the Eisenberg case sucked entire mountain ranges! :-(((((

But, it's hard to fake DNA. That's the gold standard. KC's got the DNA working against her.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

I brought this over from the kc jail confinement thread--interesting in a creepy kind of way Good find aprilshowers

Originally Posted by aprilshowers
Found this:

Anthony seems to display the same kind of misguided self-confidence or narcissism that was evident in Scott Peterson. Peterson (and it seems Anthony) was a bad liar because his lack of empathy also meant he lacked sensitivity to how others would judge his tall tales. It may well be the case that Anthony, too, has trouble telling convincing lies because she can’t intuit how her audience–whether police or a jury–will “hear” them (whether they will ring true).

Here: http://health.blogs.foxnews.com/2008...casey-anthony/

 

[Brini]

Since it seems that KC was a quiet, shy, "normal" type of girl until after Caylee was born, I wondered if anyone has considered Postpartum Psychosis? She seems to be a completely different person than she is rumored to have been, and it's like a switch was hit that caused this intense change.

She's not psychotic. No thought disorder.

We don't know that she was "normal," BTW. There's one teacher's opinion. And, sociopaths often "chameleon"-- become the person they think is wanted. Her one friend who has known her since age 5 or six refused to give her attorney a character reference.

Like becoming a religious "homebody" for JG, and a pot-smoking partier for AL.

MOO.

 

[Broderick]

Conscience? How so? Did she try to give her granddad or AH back their money, or even apologize? Or, did she go on spending sprees, and scream back at CA when caught. And, the money she took amounts to grand theft, not petty. It caused an ongoing rift in the extended family, and cause CA to have to raid her 401K, a few times. She has also contributed to the ruination of the As credit, by running up the stolen cards.

Did she go into a grief-stricken depression after she killed her child? Or, did she go out partying and boyfriend hunting. Did she even ask ONCE about her baby, when she called home, or did she ask for Tony's phone number. When AH expressed concern about Caylee, she said, "OMG! Calling you was a waste, A huge waste."

She's a sociopath, honey. If she is OK with having killed her baby, she is capable of doing anything. The thefts are nothing compared to that. No one has seen the slightest degree of grief or regret, from her. That's why people are so uncomprehending.

Sociopaths lie because that is part of the syndrome. It's not because it serves a functional purpose, because it usually ends up working against them.

She woke in cold sweats because she knew she was close to being arrested and indicted. She knows, and knew, she has a good shot at a very long prison term. For once, Mom and Dad cannot make it go away. She's stuck with her own accountability problem.

MOO

I think Irish Eyes observations are very interesting and the causes of ADP seem to have a chance of fitting. I don't think she is a classic sociopath. She was developed over time or it is something different. How do you figure you know she was waking up sweating and having nightmares over being caught and not because she was reliving the crime?

 

[Brini]

I've thought of it.

After my second child was born I had what I'd consider a mild to moderate case of post-partum depression. Never sought help for it - just rode it out - all the while knowing what it was.

But let me tell you - those hormones - or whatever it is that causes those feelings - are intense. I had thoughts at that time that I would never ordinarily think. I saw a talk show once where someone described it as "intrusive thoughts" - very accurate description. Those thoughts were dark and deeply disturbing - and apparantly not uncommon - but usually left unspoken.

I don't know all that much about the Andrea Yates case - but I did hear that she had PPD that grew worse after the birth of each child. After having felt what I felt - I fear what a bad case of PPD might be like.

My mother-in-law's best friend says that after her 3rd (and last) child - she felt those feelings for nearly 2 years and thought she might never feel normal again. She thought she would never love her child. Finally it subsided.

I wonder if a younger mother like Casey - who wasn't into her pregnancy anyway - would have known about PPD. I was an older mom who knew about it and was sort of prepared when I actually did have it. If I didn't know about it - It would have been much harder to endure.

Maybe a case of PPD just exacerbated some underlying mental condition that already existed for Casey?

Depressives don't have the mood or the energy to party hearty. KC has no symptoms of psychosis, at all.

 

[Brini]

No I haven't OneLostGrl. I can only imagine. I just have those PPD feelings to go by - and like I said - I fear what could be worse than that. I've done my share of recreational drugs in the past - and those feelings and thoughts I had with PPD seemed way stronger than than any drug induced state of mind. Maybe I had a stronger case than I thought? Anyway...I can see what you are saying about not wanting to go out and act normal and party during a time of psychosis - totally not gonna happen - but do you think a case of PPD could have tipped the scales so to speak on some sort of imbalance for Casey?

Is she a mental case at all? Or just evil? I think both.

PS
Your posts are so insightful - thanks for your openness.

I vote for character disorder (personality disorder) and evil.

MOO

 

[OneLostGrl]

Very true, but I don't think she is the classic sociopath. She exhibited conscience at times and her patterns of theft started close to home with family, expanded to close friends, and then as she got bolder, her new friends like Annie. For some reason, many thieves start by stealing from those closest to them in small amounts. This behavior of stealing from the family generally results in exemption from legal recourse. It grows from there in some cases.

I think the fact that she would wake up in cold sweats means that something was obviously eating at her in a bad way and that tells me that she did have a conscience, albeit she was able to push it away in the fantasy land in her mind she developed over time that even included fake people as related in her stories to her mother prior to Caylee's disappearance.


Just bringing it here from the (who is Caylee's biological father thread) because it is more relevant to psyche.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2878305&posted=1#post2878305

It was Amy she stole from, not Annie.

 

[Broderick]

It was Amy she stole from, not Annie.

My bad, it is Annie we have yet to see anything from.

 

[Brini]

I think it is very very possible. I think it would not only explain "her" behavior as she matured into a young adult coming out of high school, but would explain the family's post third 911 call behavior and explain why. It may explain why George left after Caylee came home about the time Jesse's fullblown paternity test came back negative. I don't think she is the classic sociopath as many in the industry would try to pigeonhole any client for expediency, but I think she exhibits more learned sociopathic behavior through enabling, shame, guilt, and resentment. Incestuous ramifications are intense especially if you are saddled outwardly with the result of the abuse whether the brother paid the cell phone or daycare bills to help out or not.

Sociopaths don't feel shame or guilt. And, there is generally thought to be a genetic component, as well as learning. It starts earlier than high
school, usually in childhood.

George left because CA had had it with his Net gambling, per Rick. They almost split, but decided to go to a marriage counselor. The divorce that was never finalized documents the therapy.

CA says she paid all the baby's bills. LA didn't pay them, or the KCs cell phone bills. If you have evidence otherwise, please post.

Again, you have shown nothing to support your incest theory, except your own imagination.

MOO

 

[Brini]

And it doesn't appear she had a strong male role-model in her life. George obviously has no authority in that house, and it's possible Casey was subconsciously looking for a male to give her that. That is one reason a lot of girls become promiscuous.

That could easily be. The women seem to have ruled the roost, in that house.

 

[Brini]

I think Irish Eyes observations are very interesting and the causes of ADP seem to have a chance of fitting. I don't think she is a classic sociopath. She was developed over time or it is something different. How do you figure you know she was waking up sweating and having nightmares over being caught and not because she was reliving the crime?

Because sociopaths don't feel guilt, and because she has not shown ANY guilt of ANY crime she has ever committed.

Because in NO phone call home has she ever asked about Caylee-- it was all about the boyfriends. Because when Caylee was mentioned by AH, she said, the call was a "huge waste," and complained that "all anyone cared about was finding Caylee." And, because she has never tried to make amends or even apologize to anyone for any crime she has ever committed. She just tells more lies.

What behavioral evidence do you have that indicates a conscience? Other than your imagination.

How do YOU figure she is reliving the crime? She told TL she was dreaming about their relationship.

"Not a classic sociopath" also doesn't make and sense. If she had a conscience, she wouldn't BE a sociopath.

You might want to call up all those talking head shrinks and tell them they are just wrong. And, call CA and tell her the same thing.

MOO

 

[Broderick]

Sociopaths don't feel shame or guilt. And, there is generally thought to be a genetic component, as well as learning. It starts earlier than high
school, usually in childhood.

George left because CA had had it with his Net gambling, per Rick. They almost split, but decided to go to a marriage counselor. The divorce that was never finalized documents the therapy.

CA says she paid all the baby's bills. LA didn't pay them, or the KCs cell phone bills. If you have evidence otherwise, please post.

Again, you have shown nothing to support your incest theory, except your own imagination.

MOO

Please don't attack me. I am not buying your diagnosis and let's leave it at that. Something about sociopaths is that they always have to be right. I have said time and time again that I don't believe a thing Cindy says so telling me what she said isn't going to make it true. If Cindy told Rick that it was a gambling issue are we to believe it when she told Rick Casey wasn't even pregnant at 7 months?

There is no proof of incest other than Haden inferring they know who the father is from a Mdna report in the last forensic dump - he has no access to any other DNA. Rob and LP have seen the paternity test from Jesse being not the father and both seem confident in a conclusion. Whether it is true or not I can't say. I think it is interesting to say the least and would explain things.

 

[Broderick]

Because sociopaths don't feel guilt, and because she has not shown ANY guilt of ANY crime she has ever committed.

Because in NO phone call home has she ever asked about Caylee-- it was all about the boyfriends. Because when Caylee was mentioned by AH, she said, the call was a "huge waste," and complained that "all anyone cared about was finding Caylee." And, because she has never tried to make amends or even apologize to anyone for any crime she has ever committed. She just tells more lies.

What behavioral evidence do you have that indicates a conscience? Other than your imagination.

How do YOU figure she is reliving the crime? She told TL she was dreaming about their relationship.

"Not a classic sociopath" also doesn't make and sense. If she had a conscience, she wouldn't BE a sociopath.

You might want to call up all those talking head shrinks and tell them they are just wrong. And, call CA and tell her the same thing.

MOO

Please stop with the personal attacks. You are taking my observations and interest personally for some reason.

 

[Broderick]

I put forth this question on some other threads here and sorry if it has already been addressed. I can really see the defense trying to get her ruled insane by undiagnosed post-partum psychosis; to favorably compound the issue, they could cite the miscarriage she told her friend about at the party.

I would venture they may take that strategy of insanity, but I think she blew that and Baez knows it when she made those two demanding 911 calls when protesters were outside harassing George and Cindy and throwing change at the garage. It showed anything other than insanity. The next day Baez walked briskly in front of her and threw open the passenger door on the car. It also proved that she was able to locate the 1 and the 9 on the telephone.

 

[sharpar]

Its not personal at all - dont get your feathers ruffled -

I doubt the incest too - for a variety of reasons -

persons afflicted with personality disorders often seem to be
cookie cutter cut outs - to a startling remarkable degree .

Once you know one of them - you know all of them
even with variations and accessories

Borderlines say and do the very same things that other borderlines
say or do . Once you have been betrayed used and abused by one
you tend to recognize the red flags pretty quickly .

I can spot a wingnut at 50 paces -------

Poor Amy learned some hard lessons but I guarantee you she will recognize the next one who tries to snuggle up to her pocketbook .

 

[Broderick]

Its not personal at all - dont get your feathers ruffled -

I doubt the incest too - for a variety of reasons -

persons afflicted with personality disorders often seem to be
cookie cutter cut outs - to a startling remarkable degree .

Once you know one of them - you know all of them
even with variations and accessories

Borderlines say and do the very same things that other borderlines
say or do . Once you have been betrayed used and abused by one
you tend to recognize the red flags pretty quickly .

I can spot a wingnut at 50 paces -------

Poor Amy learned some hard lessons but I guarantee you she will recognize the next one who tries to snuggle up to her pocketbook .

I think people are free to speculate and believe what they want. When discussing the psyche issues without direct contact, limited information, and no access to evaluations done we can only speculate. I have been reading about abuse and information on effects ever since I took Padilla's speculation and went back through all the history we know or can surmise. I am not trying to be right or wrong. Just tossing around the theories and seeing if they fit. As Rob Dick says the other day, they are waiting patiently for the DNA results to be returned for confirmation by LE. I trust they have a bit more information than I do and I have just wanted to see how it fits, and what signs there were and what brought it to the point of murder if true. We all use our imagination and I think over the course of several threads it is more my thoughts being taken personally for some reason. That is all. No feathers. I asked nicely. People can skip over the analysis I do all they want. I don't buy she was sociopath no matter if the incest charge is true or not. I think she shows signs of that behavior but I don't think it is the real diagnosis at this point.

 

[Brini]

Please don't attack me. I am not buying your diagnosis and let's leave it at that. Something about sociopaths is that they always have to be right. I have said time and time again that I don't believe a thing Cindy says so telling me what she said isn't going to make it true. If Cindy told Rick that it was a gambling issue are we to believe it when she told Rick Casey wasn't even pregnant at 7 months?

There is no proof of incest other than Haden inferring they know who the father is from a Mdna report in the last forensic dump - he has no access to any other DNA. Rob and LP have seen the paternity test from Jesse being not the father and both seem confident in a conclusion. Whether it is true or not I can't say. I think it is interesting to say the least and would explain things.

I'm not attacking you, honey. And, I agree that the family have not been entirely truthful, since they have been protecting KC.

But, I think we have to take their word for a FEW things-- like the cause of the near divorce. Especially since other family members (Rick) are saying the same thing. (BTW-- Rick said he got that info from their mother-- not from CA).

It's fine, if you want to believe that KC's actions are based entirely on incest with LA. But, to interpret everything as being suggestive of same is not fair to the family-- and I'm not even a fan of the family myself.

I LOVE LP. But, he's gone on more than one weird tangent that turned out to be smoke. Remember his statement that "the dumpster 1 1/2 miles from AL's will be critical to this case?"

(To LP) Haven't you, you sexy Mexi Sacto cowboy?

That's fine, if you want to disagree with me, too!

But, if you post distortions of DSM material, and over-interpretations of A family events, people are going to challenge those. Expect it!

 

[Janis396]

I'm not attacking you, honey. And, I agree that the family have not been entirely truthful, since they have been protecting KC.

But, I think we have to take their word for a FEW things-- like the cause of the near divorce. Especially since other family members (Rick) are saying the same thing. (BTW-- Rick said he got that info from their mother-- not from CA).

It's fine, if you want to believe that KC's actions are based entirely on incest with LA. But, to interpret everything as being suggestive of same is not fair to the family-- and I'm not even a fan of the family myself.

I LOVE LP. But, he's gone on more than one weird tangent that turned out to be smoke. Remember his statement that "the dumpster 1 1/2 miles from AL's will be critical to this case?"

(To LP) Haven't you, you sexy Mexi Sacto cowboy?

That's fine, if you want to disagree with me, too!

But, if you post distortions of DSM material, and over-interpretations of A family events, people are going to challenge those. Expect it!

Omg, you crack me up :laugh:

 

[Brini]

Its not personal at all - dont get your feathers ruffled -

I doubt the incest too - for a variety of reasons -

persons afflicted with personality disorders often seem to be
cookie cutter cut outs - to a startling remarkable degree .

Once you know one of them - you know all of them
even with variations and accessories

Borderlines say and do the very same things that other borderlines
say or do . Once you have been betrayed used and abused by one
you tend to recognize the red flags pretty quickly .

I can spot a wingnut at 50 paces -------

Poor Amy learned some hard lessons but I guarantee you she will recognize the next one who tries to snuggle up to her pocketbook .

Yeah. My sister used to say, "Once you've smelled skunk, you always recognize the scent."