Casey & Family Psychological Profile #2

[Brini]

Omg, you crack me up :laugh:

Well, he IS, Jan! He's a huggy, snuggy, muggy bear and a sweetie pie. He's one of those big, tough-talking guys with a Stetson, and a marshmallow center. Makes one want to squeeze the stuffing out of him.

Doesn't it, Lenny?:blowkiss:

 

[Brini]

i would venture they may take that strategy of insanity, but i think she blew that and baez knows it when she made those two demanding 911 calls when protesters were outside harassing george and cindy and throwing change at the garage. It showed anything other than insanity. The next day baez walked briskly in front of her and threw open the passenger door on the car. It also proved that she was able to locate the 1 and the 9 on the telephone.

ita!!

 

[Brini]

Please stop with the personal attacks. You are taking my observations and interest personally for some reason.

Nope. But, if you keep interpreting every, single event as evidence of incest, and other people see other reasons (like the divorce issue), you are going to be challenged.

That's your theory. That's fine. Most others don't agree. A couple of people do.

And, I'm betting that it's NOT the dx that is on KC's psych eval.

MOO.

 

[lizzysf]

Yeah. My sister used to say, "Once you've smelled skunk, you always recognize the scent."

So true. Once you've known one...the rest seem to have their foreheads stamped. Doesn't take much effort to spot em. Kinda like smelling decomp...ya never forget it, it is very specific.
Sociopath: anti-social pathology ...um, stealing, um lying, um no concern for anyone else, um, no empathy, I could go on, but why? It is so stinking obvious. We have had her history shared with us....what else does one need to figure out the diagnosis? Geesh. Next level from sociopath for some: Psychopath, um murder ring a bell?
A garden variety sociopath. Psych 101. Not a rare diagnosis. 1 in 10 people you know are in fact sociopathic.

 

[lizzysf]

No evidence of incest. I don't believe it.

 

[Janis396]

Well, he IS, Jan! He's a huggy, snuggy, muggy bear and a sweetie pie. He's one of those big, tough-talking guys with a Stetson, and a marshmallow center. Makes one want to squeeze the stuffing out of him.

Doesn't it, Lenny?:blowkiss:

You missed your calling, you should be on stage somnewhere And I do agree with you about ol' Lenny, he's rough and tough on the outside, a teddy bear inside. I can see he only has what's right for Caylee at heart.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Please stop with the personal attacks. You are taking my observations and interest personally for some reason.

I think the incest stuff should stay on the incest thread anyway.

 

[Recovering-Lurker]

I think the incest stuff should stay on the incest thread anyway.

It was locked, because the mod said it was stuff that should be on this thread.

 

[Broderick]

I'm not attacking you, honey. And, I agree that the family have not been entirely truthful, since they have been protecting KC.

But, I think we have to take their word for a FEW things-- like the cause of the near divorce. Especially since other family members (Rick) are saying the same thing. (BTW-- Rick said he got that info from their mother-- not from CA).

It's fine, if you want to believe that KC's actions are based entirely on incest with LA. But, to interpret everything as being suggestive of same is not fair to the family-- and I'm not even a fan of the family myself.

I LOVE LP. But, he's gone on more than one weird tangent that turned out to be smoke. Remember his statement that "the dumpster 1 1/2 miles from AL's will be critical to this case?"

(To LP) Haven't you, you sexy Mexi Sacto cowboy?

That's fine, if you want to disagree with me, too!

But, if you post distortions of DSM material, and over-interpretations of A family events, people are going to challenge those. Expect it!

I don't think I am basing everything on it. When I reviewed the theory after rejecting it initially I thought some of these things in her past and some of the behaviors by the family COULD be explained by the theory. So I posted about it, and posted how some things would fit and how some things might be explained.

I am not rejecting the sociopath diagnosis (which is loosely other things) per se because I haven't seen anything reflecting that prior to Caylee. Example: On one hand she might have dropped out of school because she was lazy which is not a sociopathic behavior, or she might have dropped out of high school for another reason none of which I think fits a sociopath. Honestly, in this case we don't know why. But, the subset with possible environmental cause and effect is an ADP and it seems to make sense based on Irish Rose's observations. That poster's post got me thinking. I think she was developed into what we see today, and she had a path to it one way or another. Again, I "think" is the operative word, dear. I don't think she was born that way. You would agree that environment and family may play a role in nurturing the result in a otherwise normal person right?

I will post this again in case you missed it:

The exact cause of APD is not known, but biological or genetic factors may play a role.

If a family member has had the disorder (especially the parents) it increases the chance of the disorder. A number of environmental factors in the childhood home, school, and community may also contribute to the disorder. Robins (1966) found an increased incidence of sociopathic characteristics and alcoholism in the fathers of individuals with antisocial personality disorder. He found that, within such a family, males had an increased incidence of APD, whereas females tended to show an increased incidence of somatization disorder instead.[16]

Bowlby (1944) saw a connection between antisocial personality disorder and maternal deprivation in the first five years of life. Glueck and Glueck (1968) saw reasons to believe that the mothers of children who developed this personality disorder usually did not discipline their children and showed little affection towards them.

Adoption studies show that both genetic and environmental factors can contribute to the development of the disorder. These studies have also have shown that genetic factors are more important for adults with the disorder, while environmental factors are more important in antisocial children. [17][16]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder

 

[alwaysonmymind]

It is very clear that some WS'ers have very strong feelings/emotions/opinions regarding this topic.

We don't all see things the same way. It is about perception.

Please more :blowkiss: less oke:

Now with that said- I will state for the record this is my own opinion.:crazy:

 

[Broderick]

To follow up on my previous post I have speculated that Casey researched missing children websites, chloroform, and made a plan to make Caylee go missing. Her plan was expedited possibly because of turmoil on the 15th. I think she was seeking attention of the highest order because Caylee had effectively taken the first position with her dominant mother. She was envious of the attention parents of missing children get perhaps. This would also fit a APD with the following:

Impulsiveness
A sense of extreme entitlement

If she was deprived at a young age of attention and we can all surmise she had a lack of disciplining this, the mother's attention was vitally important to her. Caylee took that away. Again, I am looking at the environmental causes only.

There has to be more. I think she was fairly normal in high school except some people having 20/20 hindsight vision now that she has been indicted for the murder of her child. Initially, we didn't get that she was anything other than a fun person to be around, seemingly normal with a mother that called the shots. She rebelled a bit I guess. I want to know when she really developed the lying capabilities as I think those abilities grew incrementally as she learned from her behavior without repercussion.

 

[OneLostGrl]

To follow up on my previous post I have speculated that Casey researched missing children websites, chloroform, and made a plan to make Caylee go missing. Her plan was expedited possibly because of turmoil on the 15th. I think she was seeking attention of the highest order because Caylee had effectively taken the first position with her dominant mother. She was envious of the attention parents of missing children get perhaps. This would also fit a APD with the following:

Impulsiveness
A sense of extreme entitlement

If she was deprived at a young age of attention and we can all surmise she had a lack of disciplining this, the mother's attention was vitally important to her. Caylee took that away. Again, I am looking at the environmental causes only.

There has to be more. I think she was fairly normal in high school except some people having 20/20 hindsight vision now that she has been indicted for the murder of her child. Initially, we didn't get that she was anything other than a fun person to be around, seemingly normal with a mother that called the shots. She rebelled a bit I guess. I want to know when she really developed the lying capabilities as I think those abilities grew incrementally as she learned from her behavior without repercussion.

If you go back to the beginning of this thread and the psych profile #1 thread you can read where this stuff has already been discussed.

 

[impatientredhead]

Before they could do the insanity defense, Casey would have to admit to killing Caylee. She would have to plead guilty first.

She won't do that! Besides they would have to prove she knew or didn't know right from wrong. Same as I feel this couldn't be viewed as an accident with all the covering up she's done, all the partying, all the drugs, sex and lord knows what else.

Not going to happen...

Baez's first statement to the press after being hired was that Casey is not mentally ill and that there was a logical explanation for her behavior. He is going to have a hard time backpeddalling from that comment, just like his forensic expert is going to have a hard time backpeddalling from the comments he has made saying the airtesting and hairbands is legitimate science.

 

[Broderick]

It is very clear that some WS'ers have very strong feelings/emotions/opinions regarding this topic.

We don't all see things the same way. It is about perception.

Please more :blowkiss: less oke:

Now with that said- I will state for the record this is my own opinion.:crazy:

I have found out murder by a mother is completely acceptable to believe when it happens so infrequently, say about 200 times a year - but broach the subject of abuse as it might relate to her behavior and the family's shocking behavior and it illicits very strong emotions on the contrary. That issue is far more prevalent in society but by far, more taboo, to discuss. It is only a hypothetical at this point anyway, but I find it filling in gaps and explaining things possibly when we view everyone's behavior in the immediate family all encompassing.

Now, of course, there is proof of one, and no proof of the other so I do understand logically.

 

[Broderick]

If you go back to the beginning of this thread and the psych profile #1 thread you can read where this stuff has already been discussed.

I have kept up with this entire thread, but have yet to go back to thread one. I was sent here by mod from another thread today. I didn't see where specifics to APD with environmental cause to the effect were discussed on this one in particular so when I have time I will go to the first thread. I have been postulating a theory that is quite unpopular with some so I get a bit of heat.

 

[Brini]

You missed your calling, you should be on stage somnewhere And I do agree with you about ol' Lenny, he's rough and tough on the outside, a teddy bear inside. I can see he only has what's right for Caylee at heart.

He once said she reminds him of his own grandkids.

So much for the tough bounty hunter! :blowkiss:

 

[Brini]

I think the incest stuff should stay on the incest thread anyway.

So do i. Maybe a private thread, for the three people who buy it.

 

[Brini]

It was locked, because the mod said it was stuff that should be on this thread.

That's FUNNY! LOL!

 

[Brini]

I don't think I am basing everything on it. When I reviewed the theory after rejecting it initially I thought some of these things in her past and some of the behaviors by the family COULD be explained by the theory. So I posted about it, and posted how some things would fit and how some things might be explained.

I am not rejecting the sociopath diagnosis (which is loosely other things) per se because I haven't seen anything reflecting that prior to Caylee. Example: On one hand she might have dropped out of school because she was lazy which is not a sociopathic behavior, or she might have dropped out of high school for another reason none of which I think fits a sociopath. Honestly, in this case we don't know why. But, the subset with possible environmental cause and effect is an ADP and it seems to make sense based on Irish Rose's observations. That poster's post got me thinking. I think she was developed into what we see today, and she had a path to it one way or another. Again, I "think" is the operative word, dear. I don't think she was born that way. You would agree that environment and family may play a role in nurturing the result in a otherwise normal person right?

*** Yes, I would.

I will post this again in case you missed it:

The exact cause of APD is not known, but biological or genetic factors may play a role.

*** Agreed.


If a family member has had the disorder (especially the parents) it increases the chance of the disorder. A number of environmental factors in the childhood home, school, and community may also contribute to the disorder. Robins (1966) found an increased incidence of sociopathic characteristics and alcoholism in the fathers of individuals with antisocial personality disorder. He found that, within such a family, males had an increased incidence of APD, whereas females tended to show an increased incidence of somatization disorder instead.[16]

*** Not sure. KC doesn't show overt somatization. I think that may have been true, in the past, when women were assigned to more rigid roles. If you can't express, you can somatize. Maybe the loosening of the gender roles has contributed to the apparent increase of ASPD in females?

Bowlby (1944) saw a connection between antisocial personality disorder and maternal deprivation in the first five years of life. Glueck and Glueck (1968) saw reasons to believe that the mothers of children who developed this personality disorder usually did not discipline their children and showed little affection towards them.


*** Yes, that certainly may be.

Adoption studies show that both genetic and environmental factors can contribute to the development of the disorder. These studies have also have shown that genetic factors are more important for adults with the disorder, while environmental factors are more important in antisocial children. [17][16]

*** I think that there is some controversy re: this. Many shrinks believe there is prolly a combination of the two factors, from early childhood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder

Thanks for that post!

 

[Brini]

To follow up on my previous post I have speculated that Casey researched missing children websites, chloroform, and made a plan to make Caylee go missing. Her plan was expedited possibly because of turmoil on the 15th. I think she was seeking attention of the highest order because Caylee had effectively taken the first position with her dominant mother. She was envious of the attention parents of missing children get perhaps. This would also fit a APD with the following:

Impulsiveness
A sense of extreme entitlement

If she was deprived at a young age of attention and we can all surmise she had a lack of disciplining this, the mother's attention was vitally important to her. Caylee took that away. Again, I am looking at the environmental causes only.

There has to be more. I think she was fairly normal in high school except some people having 20/20 hindsight vision now that she has been indicted for the murder of her child. Initially, we didn't get that she was anything other than a fun person to be around, seemingly normal with a mother that called the shots. She rebelled a bit I guess. I want to know when she really developed the lying capabilities as I think those abilities grew incrementally as she learned from her behavior without repercussion.

We don't know whether she was "fairly normal" in h.s. All we have is: 1) one statement from one teacher stating that she was "shy, quiet, and intelligent." 2) Some statements from classmates that she seemed "bipolar." 3) The sheriff stating that she had a "criminal history." or something to that effect. 4) Rick said that she had been lying, stealing, and enabled for a "long time." He stated that it was the source of a family rift. What's a long time? He did not specify

I would LOVE to know if she had a juvenile record, or history of acting out a a child. Also, exactly how long she has been lying and stealing?

Sociopathy, if that is the case, does not just jump out in adulthood. It starts earlier.

In some children, we have the MacDonald Triad as an ominous warning. but, it seems that that mostly manifests in the worst ones-- like Dahmer.