Casey & Family Psychological Profile #2

[distracted]

An article in which psychiatrist Dr. Lucy Puryear implores Is Casey Anthony Another Susan Smith?

The final sentence: "Casey Anthony? There was a book written in 1954 called The Bad Seed. A good read."

I've seen The Bad Seed mentioned throughout the forums-- if anyone is interested, you can watch the film version online here.

I saw that movie the first time when I was about seven years old. I was so disturbed by it that I will never forget it. Unfortunately, I have met a few people since who have reminded me of that little girl. It's creepy. I wonder if KC was that manipulative when she was a child. I do remember one of her friends saying that she would not back down from a lie, no matter what.

This has been an interesting thread to read. Thanks for the insight.

 

[Brini]

When you study anything, you have to be alert and open to information that can change your theory. Watching Nacy Grace, they were showing what Casey told investigators, and she made that statement in response to a criticism. She said: "I was willing to provide Caylee with another home."

Did she reluctantly have Caylee adopted? I studied that, and ran across the fact that Jesse Grund wanted to have Caylee adopted because he said he was too young to take on the responsibility of a child.



Jesse rushed to the hospital as soon as Caylee was born, wanting to prove Caylee wasn't his child. The test came back negative, to everyone's surprise.

I learned Jesse has a close relative connected with the authorities, in missing children. I had this theory: could he have gotten his relative in missing and exploited children to somehow arrange a fake paternity test?


Why did he rush to the hospital, first thing when Caylee was born, having so much confidence the test would be negative?

Those two things opened a door that told me Caylee has been adopted and it could have been arranged by shady authorities.

I would have Jesse take another paternity test.

If he is Caylee's real father, then the adoption theory with a connection to authorities who can fake tests and fake evidence and even fake witnesses: like the guy who is obviously a homeless bum, who would say anything for money said he saw Casey with a shovel coming out of the woods... If the paternity test was false, then faking other stuff would be almost an absolute fact in this case.

Casey said offhand, "Jesse put a body in the trunk."

He thought he WAS the father, and was disappointed that he was proven not. He offered to marry KC, even AFTER he found out he was not the father. He also grew to love the baby.

JG also took, and passed, a six-hour polygraph test, and voluntarily gave two statements to LE.

All of the As have refused to take a polygraph.

Apparently KC wanted to adopt the baby out at birth, but CA said "no." And, "no" it was!

Now, why don' you tell us how a dead body with Caylee's DNA got into KC's trunk, if Caylee is still alive?

 

[Brini]

Thanks Janis396 for clarifying the statement....your right, the real version is even more bizarre....do you think CA has any regrets about the way KC was raised? I take my kids' actions personally, I gauge my parenting success with their actions. If I raised them with a strong foundation of morals then their behavior should reflect it. I know this is not a guarantee that they'll conduct themselves in a civilized manner, but I would probably feel culpability if they committed a heinous crime. It seems normal for a parent to do this...or could CA be a lot more like KC than we are privy too?

No, I think she projects blame on other people.

 

[Brini]

You know, I am totally baffled by the things Cindy says and does. I have never, not even ONCE, met a woman like her. Not to this extreme. At first, I thought she was just in denial about what had happened, but not anymore. She is on a fierce campaign of defending her daughter, no matter what the evidence is or what common sense dictates. She blames every person involved in this case, except Casey. I think she is such a controlling person that she is in frantic overdrive trying to control every aspect of this case so it goes "her way". There is something seriously wrong with her, but I have no clue what. I think she fully contributed to whatever issues Casey has, and whatever drove her to kill her precious little baby girl. I just don't think we can compare Cindy to the rest of us mothers, and what we would have done....she's in a class all of her own.

I've met a ton of 'em. But, then, that was my job.

 

[Brini]

I think Cindy was sending Casey mixed messages about what she wanted and expected out of her as Caylee's mother. On one hand, she'd tell her she had to be home every night to put Caylee to bed, take responsibility for raising Caylee, be a more involved mother, etc. Even going so far as to tell Casey she wasn't a good mother and berate her because she didn't contribute to Caylee's life financially or in almost any other way. But then on the other hand, I think Cindy really wanted to be the "mother" figure to Caylee (control)and forcefully took that role when it suited her. Remember how she said it was her that rocked Caylee every night before bed? And how she said she didn't want to lose "both of my daughters"? Cindy completely contaminated the whole mother-daughter dynamic between Casey and Caylee, if you ask me.

That sounds about right.

 

[Brini]

I agree. I don't think that KC is insane. Definitely a sociopath though.

No. I was thinking about CA...

Maybe a BPD, IMHO.

 

[Brini]

I saw that movie the first time when I was about seven years old. I was so disturbed by it that I will never forget it. Unfortunately, I have met a few people since who have reminded me of that little girl. It's creepy. I wonder if KC was that manipulative when she was a child. I do remember one of her friends saying that she would not back down from a lie, no matter what.

This has been an interesting thread to read. Thanks for the insight.

BTW-- The actress who played the murdered little boy, Claude, got an Academy Award, IIRC.

The book ended less "happily" than the flick. The book ended as Rhoda survived, and her mother died. The last sentence, doctor to grieving husband/father was, "At least, you still have Rhoda."

 

[distracted]

I saw the movie over 40 years ago and I am still disturbed by it. Do I dare read the book? My curiosity might just get the best of me.

 

[RR0004]

I saw the movie over 40 years ago and I am still disturbed by it. Do I dare read the book? My curiosity might just get the best of me.

I saw the movie many moons ago as well and though I can't remember the details of the film, I do remember how it bothered me so that a child could be that "bad".

 

[Where's Andre]

You know, I am totally baffled by the things Cindy says and does. I have never, not even ONCE, met a woman like her. Not to this extreme. At first, I thought she was just in denial about what had happened, but not anymore. She is on a fierce campaign of defending her daughter, no matter what the evidence is or what common sense dictates. She blames every person involved in this case, except Casey.

I'm thinking the explanation is a bit simpler than you might think. CA was in denial that Caylee wasn't coming back. Came to realize this wasn't true, and that KC lied about it. But... now she's faced with the embarrassment of admitting that she was duped by her daughter into perpetuating her lies to friends and the public with the prayer vigils, the mobile sign, the websites etc.

To top it all off, if she turns on her daughter and she's convicted-- then well there's no daughter to try to control, she already knows that her GD is gone so nothing left there, and maybe all the attention of the media (negative attention is still attention) will dry up too.

So it seems to me that her choice was clear-- continue with the lie, retain control, preserve her ego and self-esteem. There's not much upside near-term with any other plan-- unless KC confessed on her own. Since that didn't happen and probably won't. Well then she's stuck with the bed she's made. She may know she looks like a fool maybe, but at least she doesn't have to admit it, and can continue to play the victim.

Like child; like mother.

 

[softsoul]

Yes, they are recognized. The DSM simply switches names, from time to time.

Psychopath is the older title for sociopath. Or, rather "sociopathic personality disorder." It has recently been changed back to "antisocial personality disorder," which is what it was called between "paychopath" and "sociopath."

Like what was once called "multiple personality disorder" is now called "dissociative identity disorder."

I understand that, I am familiar with the DSM. The terms sociopath and psychopath are no longer recognized as diagnostic categories, which is what I stated in my post. As I pointed out before, these terms are now viewed as obsolete synonyms for ASPD.

 

[Knot4u2no]

I understand that, I am familiar with the DSM. The terms sociopath and psychopath are no longer recognized as diagnostic categories, which is what I stated in my post. As I pointed out before, these terms are now viewed as obsolete synonyms for ASPD.

Correct. The Hare PCL-R is generally accepted as the gold standard for psychopathy, but it has nothing to do with the DSM, which uses a different set of criteria for the diagnostic category of Antisocial Personality Disorder.

The fine points of how these diagnostic categories are similar and different ... and an explanation for what they are are included in the following links, which I posted earlier in this thread:

Psychopath
http://www.deviantcrimes.com/BRACE of 40 pt Hare PCL R.pdf

Antisocial Personality Disorder
http://www.deviantcrimes.com/BRACE Profile of DSM 301 7.pdf

Just my opinions on these diagnostic categories,
Russell

 

[Knot4u2no]

I tried to edit my above post to eliminate the ... in the two links, but the EDIT won't work for me. Also, www.deviantcrimes.com seems to be off line at present, at least for me. So, if you are interested in these two articles, they are available at www.deviantcrimes/BRACEindex.htm , as soon as the website is up and running again.

Sorry,
Russell

 

[autumnlover]

What she said was "Casey loves Caylee even more than I love Casey. And I love Casey more and more every day."

I can't even think of a comment to accurately describe how bizarre of a statement that was.

Thank you! I thought I was losing my mind. What a thing for a mother to say! No wonder KC is so screwed up. Did you see how she tried to soften it by saying "I love Casey more every day?" CA did the same kind of backpedaling KC did when she said "All anyone cares about is finding Caylee. And you know what? That's all I care about too." The whole family is freakin' nuts.

 

[Janis396]

Thank you! I thought I was losing my mind. What a thing for a mother to say! No wonder KC is so screwed up. Did you see how she tried to soften it by saying "I love Casey more every day?" CA did the same kind of backpedaling KC did when she said "All anyone cares about is finding Caylee. And you know what? That's all I care about too." The whole family is freakin' nuts.

Yeah, what is it exactly that's going on to make Cindy love Casey "more and more every day"?? And why don't the reporters ask her those hard questions? Grill her about her nonsensical/bizarre statements like that? She has a daughter that claims to have "lost" her beloved grandchild, yet she loves that daughter more and more every day? :bang: Unlike anything I have ever seen in my life.

 

[debs]

Yeah, what is it exactly that's going on to make Cindy love Casey "more and more every day"?? And why don't the reporters ask her those hard questions? Grill her about her nonsensical/bizarre statements like that? She has a daughter that claims to have "lost" her beloved grandchild, yet she loves that daughter more and more every day? :bang: Unlike anything I have ever seen in my life.

Cindy finally gets to shine as the one in control. Casey is no longer struggling with that. Cindy has taken control over the whole sordid mess Casey made. Cindy's time in front of a microphone is Cindy's moment to shine as the pentultimate victim, second only to Caylee, and one step ahead of Casey. Casey has her lawyer for her "victim of the mess" fix. Cindy is out there championing for her ......granddaughter? daughter? oh right. No. Cindy is out there championing for herself. You just wait. Casey's not going to be liking that Cindy is getting attention. Casey's got all the power now. Cindy just hasn't figured it out yet.

 

[Brini]

I understand that, I am familiar with the DSM. The terms sociopath and psychopath are no longer recognized as diagnostic categories, which is what I stated in my post. As I pointed out before, these terms are now viewed as obsolete synonyms for ASPD.

Yes, you are right!

You might notice that many shrinks still prefer to use "sociopath," when they speak, though.

That syndrome has always been problematic to name. Some think that "sociopath"' conveys the idea, best, so far.

Like an article posted here, by another kind poster says,"psychopath" is too Hollywood. Anthony Hopkins wealding a knife over Janet Leigh. Or, maybe Jack the Ripper. And, the word, itself, just means "not right in the noggin."

"Antisocial" make people think of either reclusiveness or overt rebellion.

I forgot why the APA didn't like "sociopath," and changed it back to "antisocial." But, "sociopath" just means "not right with society."

Pity we can't come up with something that means, "devoid of the normal ability to empathize," ain't it? Or, maybe "no bulb in the humanity socket?"

And, this whole thing is made more complicated by the fact that nobody agrees re: etiology.

Axis Is have identifyable neuotransmitter problems. But, with the personality disorders, there's nothing conclusive re: either nature or nurture.

(Sigh!) Maybe I shoulda posted this on the rant thread. Story of my professional life!;-)

 

[OneLostGrl]

Yes, you are right!

You might notice that many shrinks still prefer to use "sociopath," when they speak, though.

That syndrome has always been problematic to name. Some think that "sociopath"' conveys the idea, best, so far.

Like an article posted here, by another kind poster says,"psychopath" is too Hollywood. Anthony Hopkins wealding a knife over Janet Leigh. Or, maybe Jack the Ripper. And, the word, itself, just means "not right in the noggin."

"Antisocial" make people think of either reclusiveness or overt rebellion.

I forgot why the APA didn't like "sociopath," and changed it back to "antisocial." But, "sociopath" just means "not right with society."

Pity we can't come up with something that means, "devoid of the normal ability to empathize," ain't it? Or, maybe "no bulb in the humanity socket?"

And, this whole thing is made more complicated by the fact that nobody agrees re: etiology.

Axis Is have identifyable neuotransmitter problems. But, with the personality disorders, there's nothing conclusive re: either nature or nurture.

(Sigh!) Maybe I shoulda posted this on the rant thread. Story of my professional life!;-)

Softsoul is also a professional in the mental health field, she "gets" all this stuff. She was trying to share in words that others, who do not understand the language, could understand. There is no diagnosis of Psychopath OR Sociopath in the DSM anymore and it is my unprofessional understanding that in order to be diagnosed with anything, if the doc wants his money, an MD has got to use the DSM.

 

[Brini]

Softsoul is also a professional in the mental health field, she "gets" all this stuff. She was trying to share in words that others, who do not understand the language, could understand. There is no diagnosis of Psychopath OR Sociopath in the DSM anymore and it is my unprofessional understanding that in order to be diagnosed with anything, if the doc wants his money, an MD has got to use the DSM.

Yep! S/he sure does! Please forgive if I misunderstood or miscommunicated.

 

[JohnVaughanCauthen]

He thought he WAS the father, and was disappointed that he was proven not. He offered to marry KC, even AFTER he found out he was not the father. He also grew to love the baby.

Apparently KC wanted to adopt the baby out at birth, but CA said "no." And, "no" it was!

Now, why don' you tell us how a dead body with Caylee's DNA got into KC's trunk, if Caylee is still alive?

It is in the record that he thought he wasn't ready to be a father. Cindy did say no to adoption. And so, adoption was the thing being considered.

One of Casey's statements was, "My mother will never forgive me for what I've done."

That sounds like she did something her mother would have disagreed with, like allowing Caylee to be adopted. The statement "my mother will never forgive me" fits having Caylee adopted. It's like saying, "My mother will never forgive me for spilling a bottle of Coke on the new carpet."

A person wouldn't say, "My mother will never forgive me for burning the house down."

Casey was talking about doing something that was bad, but something that was within the discussion. The discussion in the family was about adoption.



So far, they haven't had any touch DNA in the trunk, which should be there, and Yuri Melich himself said they were going to trial without a body. I can give you a source for that statement.