Casey & Family Psychological Profile #3

[OneLostGrl]

I personally do not believe a narcisstic child is raised to become such. I believe they are born that way. I also do not believe Cindy was "as bad a mother", "as responsible for Casey's personality" as many in here are portraying her.

You yourself said Cindy "finally" took a stand when she called the police....well, that is when she entered the picture in our minds. We do not know, again and again I've said this...what Cindy was like prior to Caylee missing. Looking at the overall picture I see her as a full time working mom (a nurse) who had a lot of pressures between a husband who was in and out of jobs and who had problems within his own family (george's father) as well as relocating to another state without a lot of familiar folks to support her needs...having ederly parents, a father who is ill, etc. I believe she was just too stressed to really be a supportive figure for Casey. I believe Cindy is a very strong dominating personality and she was at a lost cause in rearing Casey because anytime she did...Casey ran to daddy and that created problems between mom and daddy thus resentment was probably there...which added to Casey's manipulation techniques. So for that matter...that may have helped her grow into what she was.

I do know the textbooks will describe the parenting skills of one who is narcisstic as you described, however, I believe that only enhances an already narcisstic personality. I know too many narcisstic adults who have brothers and sisters who do not exhibit the same traits and they were raised by the same parents under the same roof. I believe she is what she is....as that is what SHE chose to be. Children are taught to not be selfish and to share their toys...some are just out for themselves and don't care what they are taught...they're going to do it anyway. That's Casey, imo.

I disagree. We absolutely know enough about life in the Anthony home, how Cindy treated Casey, Casey's behaviors and her parents enabling of those behaviors prior to Caylee going "missing". I also know enough about growing up in a home like this and the damage it causes to recognize it from a million miles away. I do not need nor am I looking for validation from anyone here or anywhere for that matter about what I am seeing in Cindy Anthony. What I hear and see when I look at and listen to George, to Lee, to Casey.. even Cindy's mother's emails to her friend (or relative?) as candid as they are, unknowingly paint a perfect picture of the patterns of a personality disordered home.

Obviously every child is born different, a tad bit about all of us is pre-determined so to some degree I can see where you may be coming from. However, in a personality disordered home each child, each person, is treated differently. Each have their own roles and each learns how to cope with that role within the family.. therefore, each learns different sets of behaviors. The same sets of behaviors would not work for every child in a personality disordered home because every child is not equal. So in all honesty the "brothers and sisters who do not exhibit the same traits and they were raised by the same parents under the same roof" doesn't fly IMO.

I have known personality disordered people who come from good homes, from parents who teach them right from wrong, parents who have done everything "right".. so this post is not to say that I believe personality disorders only happen to people who's parents are disordered because I know that is not true. Personality disorders can form from a varity of different reasons and one can simply be born that way I just do not think that is the case with Casey Anthony.

MO

 

[eddeva]

I personally do not believe a narcisstic child is raised to become such. I believe they are born that way.

i agree w/ you completely, but i think casey is beyond narcissism alone. i believe she is a sociopath and while bad parenting or abuse can reinforce such a pathology, all the love, care, boundary setting and understanding in the world won't make it any better either.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I disagree. We absolutely know enough about life in the Anthony home, how Cindy treated Casey, Casey's behaviors and her parents enabling of those behaviors prior to Caylee going "missing". I also know enough about growing up in a home like this and the damage it causes to recognize it from a million miles away. I do not need nor am I looking for validation from anyone here or anywhere for that matter about what I am seeing in Cindy Anthony. What I hear and see when I look at and listen to George, to Lee, to Casey.. even Cindy's mother's emails to her friend (or relative?) as candid as they are, unknowingly paint a perfect picture of the patterns of a personality disordered home.

Obviously every child is born different, a tad bit about all of us is pre-determined so to some degree I can see where you may be coming from. However, in a personality disordered home each child, each person, is treated differently. Each have their own roles and each learns how to cope with that role within the family.. therefore, each learns different sets of behaviors. The same sets of behaviors would not work for every child in a personality disordered home because every child is not equal. So in all honesty the "brothers and sisters who do not exhibit the same traits and they were raised by the same parents under the same roof" doesn't fly IMO.

I have known personality disordered people who come from good homes, from parents who teach them right from wrong, parents who have done everything "right".. so this post is not to say that I believe personality disorders only happen to people who's parents are disordered because I know that is not true. Personality disorders can form from a varity of different reasons and one can simply be born that way I just do not think that is the case with Casey Anthony.

MO

Basically, in a round about way...we are in agreement to a point. (Your last two paragraphs are exactly what I stated, albeit, different words.) I think where we differ is our opinions of Cindy Anthony. I cannot draw upon how she raised Casey from video's nor her actions since Caylee went missing. The woman was under emotional distress and clearly even her appearance is compelling enough to show the stress she has been under. She went from a healthy weight to a huge drop in weight quite drastically. That woman has been suffering tremendously with stress and I will say long before Caylee went missing. I don't hold her, nor George, responsible in any way for the way Casey turned out. Sorry. Now that I just don't buy. Casey is who she is because of what she is...not because of how she was raised. JMHO.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

i agree w/ you completely, but i think casey is beyond narcissism alone. i believe she is a sociopath and while bad parenting or abuse can reinforce such a pathology, all the love, care, boundary setting and understanding in the world won't make it any better either.

I absolutely agree. I think if a clinical diagnosis is made she will be deemed a Narcisstic-Pychopathic. (Psychopaths (also known as sociopaths) don't develop a conscience because they can't experience the required emotions: anxiety, shame, guilt, and empathy.)

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I am going to refuse to see KC as the victim here. There is a victim but it's not KC. There are plenty of unfortunate cases where a child dies accidentally from some kind of parental neglect. Normally, the parent would do everything in their power to save the child, they would bring the event to light, call authorities, call emergency response, get loved ones involved, show grief, show concern, be remorseful, feel guilty, etc.
Their thoughts would go from saving themselves, to saving the child if at all possible. Failing the child being saved from the accidental circumstance, it is laid to rest with dignity and the parent willingly suffers the consequences of their negilgence.

But KC has done None of that. Her attention never went away from herself and to the "accident" victim. She has been secretive, dishonest, gone underground, was never going to report it, did not ask for support or help, and evidence suggests she may even have planned it. And now we find the victim here wrapped in a bag and thrown in a garbage heap, which is not indicative of an accident victim. LE knows how to tell one parent from the other and gave KC every opportunity to come clean and admit it was a terrible accident. She did not. LE has profiles of parents who caused a terrible accident by neglect or a mistake, and parents who commit these terrible crimes on their children. LE has concluded, after considerable analysis of the facts and evidence, that KC is most likely part of the latter category.

I think we all can agree with your statement. I think where it is questionable in this thread is how much responsibility of Casey's problems were contributed by and or caused by her rearing. I personally do not hold accountable neither parent for their failures or their successes in parenting... in what Casey became. They are victims in this, as well. What I do not understand is how the general public in knowing how evil and manipulative that Casey is...why can they not understand that she would have had to been a very difficult child to raise and that she didn't just wake up one day and become the monster she is....nor did her parents create the monster that she is. People cannot get past the total denial of the parents and seem to be attributing that to "encouraging Casey's behavior" when they themselves were not only in denial but in the worst grief, fear, stress.... imaginable. How can one not feel for them?

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I disagree. We absolutely know enough about life in the Anthony home, how Cindy treated Casey, Casey's behaviors and her parents enabling of those behaviors prior to Caylee going "missing".

No. We don't. We do not know the dynamics. We have only assumed from what we've seen and how they've been treating Casey SINCE Caylee has gone missing. We do not know the dynamics and/or what was done prior. We don't know if for years they had her in therapy, or psychiatry. We don't know if they reached out to support groups or other means to get Casey help. We just do not know. What we do know is the family has been in deep denial, has been under extreme stress, does not do media interviews well and has not had faith in the police because they were on the defensive in that they did not see the police put a lot of efforts into finding a living Caylee. Again, their denial to see that the police had every right and reason to suspect Caylee was dead. We saw that too. They were just too close emotionally to be able to accept that and/or to see it. And personally, I don't think George helped Cindy at all. Especially with him being a cop. If anyone blew around smoke in the mirrors in that house...was George. Cindy was trapped in it. Thats my thoughts.

 

[eddeva]

Please take a moment to click on the video link of my tribute video for Jett Travolta. Thank you.

(sorry O/T) that was beautiful and very moving.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

(sorry O/T) that was beautiful and very moving.

Thank you. It's truly heartwrenching and sad.

 

[Brini]

I personally do not believe a narcisstic child is raised to become such. I believe they are born that way. I also do not believe Cindy was "as bad a mother", "as responsible for Casey's personality" as many in here are portraying her.

You yourself said Cindy "finally" took a stand when she called the police....well, that is when she entered the picture in our minds. We do not know, again and again I've said this...what Cindy was like prior to Caylee missing. Looking at the overall picture I see her as a full time working mom (a nurse) who had a lot of pressures between a husband who was in and out of jobs and who had problems within his own family (george's father) as well as relocating to another state without a lot of familiar folks to support her needs...having ederly parents, a father who is ill, etc. I believe she was just too stressed to really be a supportive figure for Casey. I believe Cindy is a very strong dominating personality and she was at a lost cause in rearing Casey because anytime she did...Casey ran to daddy and that created problems between mom and daddy thus resentment was probably there...which added to Casey's manipulation techniques. So for that matter...that may have helped her grow into what she was.

I do know the textbooks will describe the parenting skills of one who is narcisstic as you described, however, I believe that only enhances an already narcisstic personality. I know too many narcisstic adults who have brothers and sisters who do not exhibit the same traits and they were raised by the same parents under the same roof. I believe she is what she is....as that is what SHE chose to be. Children are taught to not be selfish and to share their toys...some are just out for themselves and don't care what they are taught...they're going to do it anyway. That's Casey, imo.

Lavanda, this is brilliant! Thank you! :clap::clap::clap::blowkiss::blowkiss:

 

[Brini]

I absolutely agree. I think if a clinical diagnosis is made she will be deemed a Narcisstic-Pychopathic. (Psychopaths (also known as sociopaths) don't develop a conscience because they can't experience the required emotions: anxiety, shame, guilt, and empathy.)

So true!

 

[Brini]

i agree w/ you completely, but i think casey is beyond narcissism alone. i believe she is a sociopath and while bad parenting or abuse can reinforce such a pathology, all the love, care, boundary setting and understanding in the world won't make it any better either.

I am exactly between you and Lavanda, on this.

 

[Brini]

I disagree. We absolutely know enough about life in the Anthony home, how Cindy treated Casey, Casey's behaviors and her parents enabling of those behaviors prior to Caylee going "missing". I also know enough about growing up in a home like this and the damage it causes to recognize it from a million miles away. I do not need nor am I looking for validation from anyone here or anywhere for that matter about what I am seeing in Cindy Anthony. What I hear and see when I look at and listen to George, to Lee, to Casey.. even Cindy's mother's emails to her friend (or relative?) as candid as they are, unknowingly paint a perfect picture of the patterns of a personality disordered home.

Obviously every child is born different, a tad bit about all of us is pre-determined so to some degree I can see where you may be coming from. However, in a personality disordered home each child, each person, is treated differently. Each have their own roles and each learns how to cope with that role within the family.. therefore, each learns different sets of behaviors. The same sets of behaviors would not work for every child in a personality disordered home because every child is not equal. So in all honesty the "brothers and sisters who do not exhibit the same traits and they were raised by the same parents under the same roof" doesn't fly IMO.

I have known personality disordered people who come from good homes, from parents who teach them right from wrong, parents who have done everything "right".. so this post is not to say that I believe personality disorders only happen to people who's parents are disordered because I know that is not true. Personality disorders can form from a varity of different reasons and one can simply be born that way I just do not think that is the case with Casey Anthony.

MO

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

This is an excellent debate, ladies!:blowkiss:

 

[Brini]

I am going to refuse to see KC as the victim here. There is a victim but it's not KC. There are plenty of unfortunate cases where a child dies accidentally from some kind of parental neglect. Normally, the parent would do everything in their power to save the child, they would bring the event to light, call authorities, call emergency response, get loved ones involved, show grief, show concern, be remorseful, feel guilty, etc.
Their thoughts would go from saving themselves, to saving the child if at all possible. Failing the child being saved from the accidental circumstance, it is laid to rest with dignity and the parent willingly suffers the consequences of their negilgence.

But KC has done None of that. Her attention never went away from herself and to the "accident" victim. She has been secretive, dishonest, gone underground, was never going to report it, did not ask for support or help, and evidence suggests she may even have planned it. And now we find the victim here wrapped in a bag and thrown in a garbage heap, which is not indicative of an accident victim. LE knows how to tell one parent from the other and gave KC every opportunity to come clean and admit it was a terrible accident. She did not. LE has profiles of parents who caused a terrible accident by neglect or a mistake, and parents who commit these terrible crimes on their children. LE has concluded, after considerable analysis of the facts and evidence, that KC is most likely part of the latter category.

Yes! Absolutely! (sorry

 

[Knot4u2no]

Regarding Casey being a model inmate, I think her being a model inmate is only until convicted. Then, if she doesn’t commit suicide, she will most likely go the way of inmate Susan S. in South Carolina ... using sex for power, which is an extremely serious and dangerous violation of rules for inmates and staff. Using sex for power and control is one of her primary survival strategies and about the only asset she has left, a very powerful tool for bartering and trading with staff in prison. Casey always takes the easy way out, the path of least resistance, so suicide is a high risk and so is bartering and trading with sex.

Only opinions,
Russell

 

[Brini]

Great posts ya'll!


I have encountered many emotions and have changed my opinion a few times a day some days as to wtf may have gone on in the actual murder involved in this case. But what has not wavered is my opinion about this "family". I have mentained throughout this case that Cindy (with help from George's enabling of Cindy's controling, overbearing and manipulative ways) created Casey. I, like deb, believe that Casey "feels". She, like her mother, is just able to turn it on and off at will. Due to years of practice from protecting herself from her mothers emotional betrayl, over and over and over again. It is difficult to grow up constsantly wondering if your mother even loves you. She says she does, one minute. But then the next she's telling you what trash you are. IMO Casey's behaviors began as coping mechanisms.. all of them! Her manipulation, her lies, stealing, cheating, the way she uses her body, her mimicing of others, use of substances, her ability to use her body as a tool in her manipulation, turning on and off tears, playing the victim, etc etc. She learned those behaviors growing up- in that home with those people, that woman teaching her everything she knows!

Casey knows right from wrong, she knows how to behave- she simply chooses not to (Even when you behave, sometimes your mother acts as if she wishes you dead and then on another day you get everything you want even IF you are misbehaving, why behave?!) just as she chose to murder her daughter, if she indeed murdered her daughter. But there is nothing her parents could have done to her that would have caused her to murder her child. There is nothing any of our parents could have done to us that would make us murder our children- that's a choice.

IMO

This one says is all!:blowkiss::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[txanmom]

I personally do not believe a narcisstic child is raised to become such. I believe they are born that way. I also do not believe Cindy was "as bad a mother", "as responsible for Casey's personality" as many in here are portraying her.

You yourself said Cindy "finally" took a stand when she called the police....well, that is when she entered the picture in our minds. We do not know, again and again I've said this...what Cindy was like prior to Caylee missing. Looking at the overall picture I see her as a full time working mom (a nurse) who had a lot of pressures between a husband who was in and out of jobs and who had problems within his own family (george's father) as well as relocating to another state without a lot of familiar folks to support her needs...having ederly parents, a father who is ill, etc. I believe she was just too stressed to really be a supportive figure for Casey. I believe Cindy is a very strong dominating personality and she was at a lost cause in rearing Casey because anytime she did...Casey ran to daddy and that created problems between mom and daddy thus resentment was probably there...which added to Casey's manipulation techniques. So for that matter...that may have helped her grow into what she was.

I do know the textbooks will describe the parenting skills of one who is narcisstic as you described, however, I believe that only enhances an already narcisstic personality. I know too many narcisstic adults who have brothers and sisters who do not exhibit the same traits and they were raised by the same parents under the same roof. I believe she is what she is....as that is what SHE chose to be. Children are taught to not be selfish and to share their toys...some are just out for themselves and don't care what they are taught...they're going to do it anyway. That's Casey, imo.

this is a brilliant post, i totally agree! because if you think about it, ca mother (or father) would have had to be a narcissist to have raised her to be one, to have ultimately raised kc to be this way. so far, we haven't seen anything that indicates this.

Also, I cannot imagine how hard it was to raise her, i am sorry to say this but those pics of KC as a baby and child spooked the heck outta me. she had the same creepy mask/smile she has in every single picture i have seen of her.

this is the most interesting thread and i agree in part with both sides of the debate. i love how you are all debating and there is so much i have learned or validated about my own thoughts from those of yours. ahhh, the old nature vs. nurture debate brings back so many memories of college.

Has anyone here read the book "We Need To Talk About Kevin" by L. Shriver (mods if i referenced that wrong please let me know the correct way?)? It is an excellent look into this debate. It is a fictional story about a boy who as a teen massacres his classmates in a gymnasium. It depicts the relationship between the mother, son who commits the crime, sister, and father. It eerily parallels Kc's actions. I HIGHLY recommend it.

 

[DebC]

I agree with all of the above. Except that I think it was more nurture than nature that made Casey the way she is.

BTW, watching NG I suddenly saw something I have never noticed before. In the video of Casey being led into court in shackles. She suddenly shows her evil side for a split second. A complete change of her expression - I think she mumbles some profanity to herself as well. It only lasts a few frames, then her mask is back in place.

 

[Capri]

Great posts ya'll!


I have encountered many emotions and have changed my opinion a few times a day some days as to wtf may have gone on in the actual murder involved in this case. But what has not wavered is my opinion about this "family". I have mentained throughout this case that Cindy (with help from George's enabling of Cindy's controling, overbearing and manipulative ways) created Casey. I, like deb, believe that Casey "feels". She, like her mother, is just able to turn it on and off at will. Due to years of practice from protecting herself from her mothers emotional betrayl, over and over and over again. It is difficult to grow up constsantly wondering if your mother even loves you. She says she does, one minute. But then the next she's telling you what trash you are. IMO Casey's behaviors began as coping mechanisms.. all of them! Her manipulation, her lies, stealing, cheating, the way she uses her body, her mimicing of others, use of substances, her ability to use her body as a tool in her manipulation, turning on and off tears, playing the victim, etc etc. She learned those behaviors growing up- in that home with those people, that woman teaching her everything she knows!

Casey knows right from wrong, she knows how to behave- she simply chooses not to (Even when you behave, sometimes your mother acts as if she wishes you dead and then on another day you get everything you want even IF you are misbehaving, why behave?!) just as she chose to murder her daughter, if she indeed murdered her daughter. But there is nothing her parents could have done to her that would have caused her to murder her child. There is nothing any of our parents could have done to us that would make us murder our children- that's a choice.

IMO

<<Her behaviors began as coping mechanisms. >> That one really hit home with me. In the never-ending quest to understand this personality of KC's, I hadn't truly thought of it that way, that they only began as legitimate coping skills.

I know it's way too late now for KC, but I would love to know what Cindy's home life was like. Always the question of nature vs. nurture.

 

[icherish]

Basically, in a round about way...we are in agreement to a point. (Your last two paragraphs are exactly what I stated, albeit, different words.) I think where we differ is our opinions of Cindy Anthony. I cannot draw upon how she raised Casey from video's nor her actions since Caylee went missing. The woman was under emotional distress and clearly even her appearance is compelling enough to show the stress she has been under. She went from a healthy weight to a huge drop in weight quite drastically. That woman has been suffering tremendously with stress and I will say long before Caylee went missing. I don't hold her, nor George, responsible in any way for the way Casey turned out. Sorry. Now that I just don't buy. Casey is who she is because of what she is...not because of how she was raised. JMHO.

(my bold)

ITA NO one is responsible for the path Casey has chosen except Casey.

There is dysfunction in the family to be sure; but I have always believed it was largely created and perpetuated by Casey. The one person who has repeatedly and mercilessly, without shame or remorse- used and abused every single person in her family for her own selfish gain; with precious little Caylee paying the ultimate price.

She continues to do it to them to this very day.

 

[reeseeva]

(bold mine) Such is the tragic, twisted nature of narcissistic--or parent-centered (vs child-centered) parenting. It sadly has little or nothing to do with meeting the needs of the developing child--but is focused instead entirely upon the neediness of the parent.:clap: Discouraging, damaging, and above all utterly confusing to a child to grow up continually trying to anticipate or secondguess what the "mood" or unpredictable reactions of their parent will be in nearly every situation. Always kept off-balance, forever rebounding, on the alert for any clues. Receiving, as you say, excessive lavish fawning at the parent's whim for the least warranted things--while reprimanded severely for the most innocent mistakes or imperfections. I grew up in a home like this and believe me, the only thing constant is the inconsistency. In GA's videotaped jailhouse visit (alone) w KC, he is wracking his brain for where he went wrong... and says to KC, "Maybe we were just too domineering." I was dumbfounded. (Well, he was half right I guess.) But no clue or inkling that they may have ever been too permissive?! Or that KC had been basically begging her entire life for some kind of limits and boundaries?!!:clap::clap::behindbar No hint that the first actual consequence that his daughter had ever been required to pay in her entire life cost her the ultimate price? Or reconsidering whether a few earlier on might have averted any of this? Omg, and the more I read interviews w/ CA, the more I shook my head, as she continued denying and defending the indefensible, making excuse after excuse. Like she no doubt marched into her child's teacher if they dared to give her little darling a bad grade, oy... Let's hope and pray CA (& GA) may one day do some self-inventory as parents, even begin to see the link between the values, priorities and parenting extremes, and their daughter's character. Even if it was negligence, as I believe, it isn't just KC's priorities that at the time likely led to this tragedy--just as telling are all the really poor choices KC made in the aftermath. Nothing can bring Caylee back, but we can only hope that their search for answers may eventually lead to some willingness on their part to search within--and search deeply. JMO

Such a great post Kiki, I know people have a hard time understanding this "learned behavior", referenced in a powerful book, "Memes" (basically we are born with the "genes", the ones we rode in on the bus with) But, these so-called "memes" are a Powerful set of instilled feelings injected in us from parental influences. It certainly made me think about what was hardwired in myself by my own mother, fortunately for me mostly good, & it's awarness hits me daily. I think CA has demonstrated, that appearances & self preservation, at any cost, are paramount to humility & accountability. We have seen her unendless defense of the absurd, & now witness these same traits in KC to the extreme. CA is a force to be reckoned with! I feel anyone contending with her type of personality,(George included) would need a coat of armor, to maintain their own convictions & beliefs. Her will prevail. It's not difficult for me to see how KC developed indifference & lack of empathy. I also feel she loved Caylee, whose death resulted in some unsupervised moment. It is also unfathomable, to me, how she could withstand the crushing horror of what happened, shelve it, & go on living! I haven't heard it discussed here, so I'll throw it out to all on this thread. When I have watched the interviews with Greta, at the Anthony home, the overly conspicuous consumption of stuffed animals (which Greta commented, "I've never seen so many stuffed animals" & CA replied, "that's nothing, there's more"), toys, pictures, momentos of everything Caylee, the backyard Romper Room scene, seem so overly indulgent for 1 child, in light of the fact, that there is so much debt & apparently only one income?? Has anyone else thought it strange? Excessive emphasis on Caylee, mostly by CA paints a very disturbing picture to me, not to say grandchildren, aren't spoiled, especially by grandparents, but within their means. JMO!

KC's lack of emotion, when LA asked, "what's in this for you" (strange question) "why are you letting the police get involved?", her reply said it all, it was the one moment of clarity & truthfulness I've heard from KC, "Maybe I have been an unfit mother, a bad daughter, & bad sister, maybe this should have been done a long time ago"