Casey & Family Psychological Profile #3

[LCoastMom]

Kiki There is one line in many of your posts that I find really troubling, and it seems out of place, because you offer really exceptional in site into the dynamics of what makes the A's tick, what makes all the A's run. Over and over, you have given really great food for thought and then: you toss the Cindy made KC keep Caylee against her wishes story line. Of all the rumors of what goes on in this family, this is the most unsubstantiated. This is the one put out their by one person and denied by everyone else.

Please don't take this as criticism, because that's certainly not my intent. Is there something you know that I don't, that would make this more believable?

If this story is found to be true, KC did a pretty great job of hiding it from everyone for a long time, including the observation of KC's friend Holly, who spoke of KC breast feeding Caylee, it doesn't take dedication to your baby to give birth, but it does take a lot of dedication to continue providing nourishment and nurturing by breastfeeding. To me this just doesn't sound possible from someone who never wanted to keep her baby or by someone who was pressured into keeping a her.

 

[shivs]

Sometimes people are just sick. Why is it assumed a family like this must have secrets, why is it easier for some people to look for crazy explanations and excuses when there doesn't have to be a reason?! Often people are just messed up for no reason. And if those same people are taught it's OK to lie, steal and cheat- well, they are not being taught the rules we as a society must reasonably follow in order to grow up to be successful in any sense of the word.

It's like the people who when they find out someone has depression, say "You have such a good life, what are you depressed about?!" "What is wrong with you, snap out of it" Like there has to be a reason-It's an ILLNESS the symptoms are not always going to be situational- at times how they feel about themselves and those around them isn't going to be understood or even logical to outsiders- but it is what it is- they don't have to have a horrible secret they are covering up.

I was a complete screw up by the time I was 13 years old and there was no reason other than I had a Borderline mother, an ASPD step-father and an undiagnosed mental illness. It happens to lots of us!

Awesome post :blowkiss: So true

 

[LCoastMom]

I completely agree. When the visit begins, Cindy is forced to confront her daughter's true nature-- they haven't seen Casey in quite a while, and Caylee's third birthday has come and gone. I think Cindy was hoping to be greeted by a visibly distraught daughter who was comprehending the gravity of the situation and equally distressed about Caylee's uncertain fate. Instead, Casey bounds in giggling and wanting to talk about herself. Cindy is looking at her in utter sickened horror, IMO:

The look on Cindy's face throughout the whole video was hard to take. The pain is so evident. When KC immediately starts in with the what's her problem attitude, why is crying? Ugh, her lack of any sympathy or empathy for Cindy is so apparent, it is actually painful to watch. There was really nothing Cindy could do with KC during this visit, when KC asked to speak, Cindy listened to her for 50 seconds straight, then makes some small offering and listens while KC goes on for 2 more minutes. The whole time was nothing but a poor pitiful me session.

I was waiting from the beginning for someone to mention Caylee's Bday, when Geo finally brings it, this is when he gets his smack down. Geo asks, "how did you survive Caylee's Bday?" KC replies; "I didn't, I spent the day under the blanket". Geo looked as if he had been physically hit. Then KC starts whining about Cindy making chili and everyone getting together, being together while she is alone, that's the story that got back to her. Well she's been saying all along that she speaks to no one, hears from no one, so what was that about, besides oh, poor, pitiful KC. She makes me want to shake her, even knowing it will accomplish nothing.

Thanks for the picture...

 

[LCoastMom]

My mentally ill parent has a paranoia disorder, too. Everyone is a suspect. Everyone is out to get them. No one is to be trusted, even your own spouse, children, friends. It's harder for the family than it is for the patient. When I talked to a therapist about it and asked her how to help my parent get well, the therapist said, "You can't. The best thing you can do is get therapy for yourself to help you learn how to cope with a mentally ill loved one." It took 30+ years but I've learned to hate the disease, not the person.

My sister and I also thank our lucky stars we didn't inherit it.

All of this is why GA and especially CA don't push KC too hard for information. They know that if they get angry with her, KC will shut them out completely and not talk to them at all. In fact, that may just be what happened after the August jail visit we are all watching now.

The hardest thing for someone who has never lived with this to understand is the extremes people will go through to keep the peace in their home, something I believe C&G got very little of in spite of their best efforts.

KC was an adult when she started acting out to an extreme, G&C had very little they could do, and yet they obviously kept trying. And they obviously love their daughter in spite of everything they know and everything they fear.

I think this video is the closest we've seen, to what living with KC was really like. Having been there done that with my own daughter, they have my sympathy.

 

[BuzzieCat]

The hardest thing for someone who has never lived with this to understand is the extremes people will go through to keep the peace in their home, something I believe C&G got very little of in spite of their best efforts.

KC was an adult when she started acting out to an extreme, G&C had very little they could do, and yet they obviously kept trying. And they obviously love their daughter in spite of everything they know and everything they fear.

Has there been information to confirm that Casey only started acting out in her 20s? I certainly may have missed that, but I thought there hadn't been much info about that either way.

I know I haven't lived this kind of situation myself, but I just find it hard to believe if Casey was at least partially hardwired for this and raised in a difficult home that she didn't start doing anything out of the ordinary until she got pregnant. If she is a sociopath or psychopath, she has probably been that way for longer than that. There should have been evidence of it since her teens and possibly conduct disorder before that. I just find it hard to believe that she had perfectly normal empathy and conscience and somehow pregnancy broke them. The way she acted in that video didn't seem to be schizophrenia or postpartum depression.

 

[professoressa]

After watching the "new" jailhouse video for the umpteenth time, I have reached the conclusion that...

The A's are the kind of people who TALK a lot, but SAY nothing. Especially KC herself.

 

[Whisperer]

We are new to this tape and forget these actions of Casey occurred the middle of August before the 1st bailout. Now these parents got her home, took care of her. She was then arrested once more. Now, the parents go and seek out anther $50,000 to have this perp home AGAIN. Doesn't that boggle the mind?

The parents are so sick and so dependent on this girl, it should cause the hair on your neck to rise. Keep in mind now how further they have gone to help her out. They dumped more money and more media and more stunts into helping her. These parents knew and were not blind and were not in denial. They have aided her and abetted her the entire time, taking advantage of the public and the Police, not to mention tax payers and money.

I do not want to hear anyone tell me that the parents are in denial about Caylee. Their experience is not denial but delusional regarding anything to do with Casey and her behavior.

These adult people have behaved in such a manner that created and still creates a daughter who believes she is the center of this universe. The two women are so enmeshed, you might as well lock up Cindy with her. Cindy, for all intentional purposes acts like the daughter. Her co-dependence is extreme.

 

[DAWN TREADER]

Watching the newly released video of an emotionally fragile Casey I can only wonder what might have happened had she not been bonded out shortly after that last visit with her parents. Would her anger and frustration intensified or decreased?

 

[OneLostGrl]

I am not giving anybody a pass here. I'm saying within that family, George seems to get a pass. KC would rather talk to George, rather see George, because she can't talk to her mother. Her mother gets angry and defensive, but George is Mr. Cool to Casey. All the blame gets put on Cindy when Casey gets upset.

From reading the emails between Cindy's brother and mother, it sounds like he's had a ton of problems including spending/gambling addiction and he can't hold down a job. Cindy's brother calls him a "loser" and says he ruined his sister's life. Coupled with the supposed "sicknes" in George's family, it sounds like he's a guy not without issues.

Please remember, this is my theory. Everybody's got one, right?

Yeah and George is also the one she claims "abused" her. Just to refresh memories here are few more of her claims- that she hates him, he gambles on-line, he was having an affair. That her parents fight all the time and she didn't want her child around the house with two of them cuz all the fighting... That they were on the verge of divorce.

Ol' George is also the one she told her friends had a stroke. She also told her Amy he hit something with her car. I'm sure I left out some examples but my point is, all THAT?! I don't know about anyone else but where I come from that's hardly getting a "pass". I'd rather fight the b!tch, let her try to hit me with her fists, least I could defendmyself!!

Goodness, sounds a bit like Cindy's behaviors.. Calling Casey's friend and talking about her, calling her names in front of her fiance, her treatment of LP, Tim Miller (publicly calling him a drunk?!), the lies she told on TV about LE not coming to get the clothes of Casey's when we now know she was supposed to bring them to LE but then she would not answer their calls!

smear, repeat, lie, repeat, smear again and begin the cycle again! And George sits back and watches... doing nothing about any of it. Yup, each have issues that's for sure! That is one dysfuntional family- much like growing up in the home of and being "raised" by active alcoholic(s).

 

[kiki the parrot]

Has there been information to confirm that Casey only started acting out in her 20s? I certainly may have missed that, but I thought there hadn't been much info about that either way.

I know I haven't lived this kind of situation myself, but I just find it hard to believe if Casey was at least partially hardwired for this and raised in a difficult home that she didn't start doing anything out of the ordinary until she got pregnant. If she is a sociopath or psychopath, she has probably been that way for longer than that. There should have been evidence of it since her teens and possibly conduct disorder before that. I just find it hard to believe that she had perfectly normal empathy and conscience and somehow pregnancy broke them. The way she acted in that video didn't seem to be schizophrenia or postpartum depression.

(bold, underlined mine) ITA w bolded. But that's a big IF. And I suppose a big part of the reason I've yet to rule out negligence, and remain thus far unconvinced of malice--or even intent. JMO

We are new to this tape and forget these actions of Casey occurred the middle of August before the 1st bailout. Now these parents got her home, took care of her. She was then arrested once more. Now, the parents go and seek out anther $50,000 to have this perp home AGAIN. Doesn't that boggle the mind?

The parents are so sick and so dependent on this girl, it should cause the hair on your neck to rise. Keep in mind now how further they have gone to help her out. They dumped more money and more media and more stunts into helping her. These parents knew and were not blind and were not in denial. They have aided her and abetted her the entire time, taking advantage of the public and the Police, not to mention tax payers and money.

I do not want to hear anyone tell me that the parents are in denial about Caylee. Their experience is not denial but delusional regarding anything to do with Casey and her behavior.

These adult people have behaved in such a manner that created and still creates a daughter who believes she is the center of this universe. The two women are so enmeshed, you might as well lock up Cindy with her. Cindy, for all intentional purposes acts like the daughter. Her co-dependence is extreme.

:clap:

(bold mine) ITA, esp w bolded!!! Now will you kindly tell us how you really feel... J/K! JMO

 

[kiki the parrot]

Yeah and George is also the one she claims "abused" her. Just to refresh memories here are few more of her claims- that she hates him, he gambles on-line, he was having an affair. That her parents fight all the time and she didn't want her child around the house with two of them cuz all the fighting... That they were on the verge of divorce.

Ol' George is also the one she told her friends had a stroke. She also told her Amy he hit something with her car. I'm sure I left out some examples but my point is, all THAT?! I don't know about anyone else but where I come from that's hardly getting a "pass". I'd rather fight the b!tch, let her try to hit me with her fists, least I could defendmyself!!

Goodness, sounds a bit like Cindy's behaviors.. Calling Casey's friend and talking about her, calling her names in front of her fiance, her treatment of LP, Tim Miller (publicly calling him a drunk?!), the lies she told on TV about LE not coming to get the clothes of Casey's when we now know she was supposed to bring them to LE but then she would not answer their calls!

smear, repeat, lie, repeat, smear again and begin the cycle again! And George sits back and watches... doing nothing about any of it. Yup, each have issues that's for sure! That is one dysfuntional family- much like growing up in the home of and being "raised" by active alcoholic(s).

And please One, don't you hold back either... J/K!!!

:blowkiss:

 

[OneLostGrl]

Yes, I see what she's doing there and how she is trying to control them and they step back so as to maintain contact with her. But I mean just in general something is weird about GA. He is part of this family dynamic also, it wasn't just Cindy's actions that made this whole family this way. He wasn't just a passive creature who just laid there innocently while the rest of the family went off the rails, IMO. Or maybe he has always been this way to try to avoid having to contribute to the family (no steady job, no willingness to do something about Casey before it was too late, falling for the Nigerian scam, etc.). I don't see him contributing anything to the family monetarily or otherwise. He should be doing something. And he has a temper, so he could probably stand up to Cindy if he really wanted to IMO.

By the time Caylee was born, it was too late IMO. Casey was already the way she was and with a baby she had the ultimate key to control her parents. After that they couldn't really do anything with her anymore unless they had called the police whenever she stole money. They needed to nip her in the bud when she was a kid and they didn't, apparently.

He certainly is quite a loser, I agree. I don't put it past George to be suckered into getting rid of the body. I do believe when LE said to George, "I think you know a lot about a lot of things, George" that they feel the same way about him... the little eager beaver

ETA- though up until the murder (if it was Casey who murdered Caylee) I do believe she could have changed, had she wanted to. My history of like-behaviors had been going on longer and were far more criminal than Casey's (until the murder) and I have changed! Even Cindy could still change IMO - DBT would do that woman good!

 

[Whisperer]

Putting all or most of this off on G&C doesn't explain all the kids who grow up in truly horrific situations and are fine human beings and loving parents. KC has developed some serious issues, but it seems the ones that could be seen as red flags to what could be coming have all been in the last 2 or 3 years, after she was legally an adult, therefore out of G or C's ability to force her into treatment. Caylee was already in the picture, so much of the time to protect Caylee they are seen as enabling KC. When the situation became so bad they knew they had to do something it appears KC was preparing to do something else on her own.

I believe if G&C had just changed the locks. Then gone in for the kill when KC reacted badly to being locked out, maybe just maybe Caylee would be alive today. But KC had done a really good job hiding her true feelings from everyone. Look at all the early LE interviews, everyone who knew KC said she would never hurt Caylee. Those are all the same people G&C would have been up against trying to get custody of Caylee.

C&FS can't remove a child from it's mother without cause, stealing from relatives is a bad thing but the A's had always fixed it so LE was not involved. Having no job, again not a reason to remove a child. I have worked with families who have done things you and I would see as horrific and cause to lose a child forever, but the courts are set up to keep families together. A couple of parenting classes, a letter showing good progress from a PO, the kid goes back. Our courts are not set up to care for children. Therefore the courts rely on parents, even bad ones.

_______________

Concerning Horrific parents...from my perspective, the results I have seen have been inmates who committed horrific crimes. Granted these are males I encountered. I am told the female victims wind up in therapy. if not worse. I think kc has had problems her entire life and has been protected and covered up. Ca strikes me as one of those helicopter parents....may have done all of her school work too.

I know what you are saying about Caylee's custody, but couldn't the courts have given temporary custody to the grandparents on the basis that kc has never been able to provide for this child? If they had removed Casey from the house and provided the stolen money,cards, etc. For a bigger impact, they could have pressed charges. I bet there is also a violent temper, which has not been addressed and is being kept hidden. They wouldn't have to worry about Casey....going to parenting classes.....wouldn't happen! She would be defiant.. she would have given up. Granted, she would be working on getting back into the house and causing quite a drama and worse. To protect the baby, CA could have put Caylee in Childcare.

They could have changed the locks and put a suitcase on the porch, I agree with you. Can you see either of them doing that? Not in this lifetime!She let her have access to the house the whole time kc was gone. Cindy putting her DD outside...forget it. She would NEVER do it. Look at what she knows after this last tape.....she still hasn't seen the light....just the opposite. She bails her out and brings her home and coddles her; never confronts her. She is afraid she might make kc angry. Cindy cannot help herself, no less Casey. Cindy chooses to fight with the world but not with her daughter. Cindy has no fear of the world and their wrath but is scared to death of a pint-sized female.

Cindy's co-dependency is paramount in her inability to confront her daughter. She is afraid of losing her. She did not do what is right for Caylee and gone for custody; I am sure she thought about it though. People think CA is tough. Nothing can be further from the truth, she is a very weak, unhappy person who was controlled by a malignant narcissist and didn't mind it apparently.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Kiki There is one line in many of your posts that I find really troubling, and it seems out of place, because you offer really exceptional in site into the dynamics of what makes the A's tick, what makes all the A's run. Over and over, you have given really great food for thought and then: you toss the Cindy made KC keep Caylee against her wishes story line. Of all the rumors of what goes on in this family, this is the most unsubstantiated. This is the one put out their by one person and denied by everyone else.

Please don't take this as criticism, because that's certainly not my intent. Is there something you know that I don't, that would make this more believable?

If this story is found to be true, KC did a pretty great job of hiding it from everyone for a long time, including the observation of KC's friend Holly, who spoke of KC breast feeding Caylee, it doesn't take dedication to your baby to give birth, but it does take a lot of dedication to continue providing nourishment and nurturing by breastfeeding. To me this just doesn't sound possible from someone who never wanted to keep her baby or by someone who was pressured into keeping a her.

Untrue. I suspect those who are more familiar w/ my posts would vouch rather I'm in fact one of the few around here who does not "toss" around anything in the way of rumors--a reliable source who instead consistently "tosses out" speculation, a practice which I've learned is not the way to win popularity contests at WS. This fact was released long ago in document dump (8/25/08), and well substantiated by multiple reliable sources. KC did a pretty good job of hiding everything including her pregnancy. Perhaps it is you instead who should consider the source of Holly's info.

"Four hundred pages of documents released by police in the case of a missing Orlando toddler reveal that her mother wanted to give her up for adoption before she was born, but her grandmother convinced her not to."

"Court documents show 22-year-old Casey Anthony, the mother of missing Florida toddler, Caylee Anthony, wanted to give the girl up for adoption before she was born.

"Documents released by prosecutors Monday show Casey Anthony's mother insisted that she keep the child."

"Casey Anthony wanted to give up her unborn child for adoption. But those plans were nixed by her mother, who insisted she keep the baby... Childhood friend Kiomarie Torres Cruz said that during Casey Anthony's pregnancy, she wanted to put the baby up for adoption. Cruz told Anthony she would be interested in adopting the unborn child because she couldn't have children herself. Cruz said she thought Anthony was bipolar. At times, Anthony would ask her something one day, and then would not remember later that she asked the question."


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/caylee-anthony/orl-casey2608aug26,0,2732067.story

http://www.necn.com/Boston/Nation/R...o-put-Caylee-up-for-adoption-/1219761697.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,410865,00.html

http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2008/8/26/376590.html

http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/27429754.html

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/17291314/detail.html?rss=orlpn&psp=news

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/documents-shed-new-light-on-casey-anthony-case/2032023385

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/082508anthonydocuments/indexGallery.htm

 

[OneLostGrl]

ITA that by this point, during this visit, CA appears at first less willing than GA to just go along w KC's lies as in the past. I'm saying it appears to me in this instance that CA is the one (finally!) closer to risking her daughter's wrath by asking the tougher questions (it's about time!) and I'd even go as far as to add that KC in fact chose a visit w GA eg precisely because she knows he can be more easily manipulated at this point. GA was previously employed in the past and I can only hazard a guess by saying living w a very controlling wife and the sick dynamics between his wife and daughter for so many years may have contributed to his unhappiness. It's clear who wore the pants and so I also have to wonder how he put up w it all these years too. JMO

Well, imo his "issues" didn't just pop up.. I have little doubt there are some interesting dynamics in his relationship with his own mother.

Men like George need women like Cindy... and women like Cindy need men like George. My mother closed her eyes to my stepfather robbing the store in which he worked (the only job he held for longer than a month), 17 years of drug addiction (to the point she had to buy a lock box for her medications) including doing drugs with my sister who was a teenager! She also "dealt with" him stealing checks (when I was a teenager she kept her checkbook under my mattress at night and had me lock myself in the room so he couldn't get at the checks while she slept.).. by the time I was old enough to move out, "they" had sued several peoples auto insurance companies after accidents they caused, had gone bankrupt 3 times, he collected Social security disability for a back problem that did not even exist.

The last few years were even worse- he began abusing his psych meds and would fall asleep while driving and while smoking in bed. The guy had WELTS on his chest from cigarette burns. She'd yell at him, calling him names, threatning to leave him, or depending on the situation, threatening to kill herself... but she never did anything (except invalidate him as a human being every chance she got) saying she could not pay her bills without his check or that he'd kill himself if she left him etc etc. But the truth is she enjoyed (needed- thrived on- depended on) having someone to invalidate, make fun of and call names (this is the kind of control women like this have over their family)- and he needed someone to support him, totake care of him... so long as he could steal her medication and money and continue being the total piece of he'd always been. Who cares wtf she calls him, right (in his head)?!

 

[OneLostGrl]

Agree totally w bolded! Way, waaayyyy too late (yathink!) Then not only did Caylee create a power shift between these two women, but when GA "messes up" himself (a few times) CA breaks all the rules and leans on their daughter as a confidante--which put KC in an even greater position of power and put GA in an even more impotent position than before stripping him of whatever respect or authority he may once have had. KC uses this to her total advantage--and says it all when she said, "I should've been stopped a long time ago." A statement, as I've pointed out though, that reveals both a weakness of conscience, and a consciousness of guilt. JMO

Bold is mine-

ITA- they became a "team" in respect to disliking George.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Hey One I hear ya! There were a lot of twisted dynamics going on in that family.

One, you and your childhood stories really do break my heart. You are 'hella brave" (that's for our teenaged sons lol), one mighty overcomer IMO for sure.
:blowkiss:
Btw how crazymaking was that in the new jailhouse video when GA starts reassuring his darling KC "Remember sweetheart, you're the boss..." Yes by all means, this is the instruction I recommend givng when your child is TOTALLY DECEIVING YOU, DEFYING AND STONEWALLING LE, IS THE PRIME SUSPECT IN HER CHILD'S MURDER AND SMUGLY THUMBING HER NOSE AT AUTHORITY: "YOU'RE THE BOSS SWEETHEART!!" (aaaaaarrgghhhh...!!) JMO
:banghead:

 

[OneLostGrl]

Very good analysis.

It's almost like they erase you, like you are not a separate person and no matter how hard you try to get away it takes a strong will and significant physical distance to truly escape this type of parenting.

Absolutely... except you never existed in the first place other than to fufill their needs. An eraser could wipe your entire existence clean because ya never even made a DENT.

It take years and massvie amounts of therapy and insight to come to terms with, to feel worthy of anything. And some never do.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Hey One I hear ya! There were a lot of twisted dynamics going on in that family.

One, you and your childhood stories really do break my heart. You are 'hella brave" (that's for our teenaged sons lol), one mighty overcomer IMO for sure.
:blowkiss:
Btw how crazymaking was that in the new jailhouse video when GA starts reassuring his darling KC "Remember sweetheart, you're the boss..." Yes by all means, this is the instruction I recommend givng when your child is TOTALLY DECEIVING YOU, DEFYING AND STONEWALLING LE, IS THE PRIME SUSPECT IN HER CHILD'S MURDER AND SMUGLY THUMBING HER NOSE AT AUTHORITY: "YOU'RE THE BOSS SWEETHEART!!" (aaaaaarrgghhhh...!!) JMO
:banghead:

I don't want to break your heart, my bird friend! :blowkiss:

I want people to realize the damage they cause their children, I want people to think before they choose to skip over teaching their children right from wrong, or not holding them accountable simply because the childs reaction may cause havoc in the household. I want people to know that Casey's behaviors began as a way to cope in that household.. They continued and worsened because her parents, the people who were supposed to be in charge- obviously never, ever were in charge of very much other than making her hate and resent them.

She ended up murdering her child (if she did) because she chose to- perhaps (in her mind) to prove to Cindy that, afterall, she truly no longer had any control over Casey... so she took away the only thing that made Cindy happy.

ETA- I KNOW (re: George in the video)!! his stupid analagies themselves are "crazy making" LOL! Did you see Casey LAUGH at her mom when they first got there and Cindy was crying?! (though she put her head down and pretended it was tears she was hiding but theres no way anyone could miss that sick smile she had after Cindy said she wasn't "doing so good") !sick-0! I'd like to beat that b!tch with a bat! LOL

 

[gitana1]

Putting all or most of this off on G&C doesn't explain all the kids who grow up in truly horrific situations and are fine human beings and loving parents. KC has developed some serious issues, but it seems the ones that could be seen as red flags to what could be coming have all been in the last 2 or 3 years, after she was legally an adult, therefore out of G or C's ability to force her into treatment. Caylee was already in the picture, so much of the time to protect Caylee they are seen as enabling KC. When the situation became so bad they knew they had to do something it appears KC was preparing to do something else on her own.

I believe if G&C had just changed the locks one day, obtained the paperwork behind KC's back to at least get temporary custody of Caylee. Then gone in for the kill when KC reacted badly to being locked out, maybe just maybe Caylee would be alive today. But KC had done a really good job hiding her true feelings from everyone. Look at all the early LE interviews, everyone who knew KC said she would never hurt Caylee. Those are all the same people G&C would have been up against trying to get custody of Caylee.

C&FS can't remove a child from it's mother without cause, stealing from relatives is a bad thing but the A's had always fixed it so LE was not involved. Having no job, again not a reason to remove a child. I have worked with families who have done things you and I would see as horrific and cause to lose a child forever, but the courts are set up to keep families together. A couple of parenting classes, a letter showing good progress from a PO, the kid goes back. Our courts are not set up to care for children. Therefore the courts rely on parents, even bad ones.

Excellent post. I have said before that, even if the grandparents could have foreseen the tragedy that occurred, which I doubt anyone could have, there would have been little they could have done. Stealing, lying, refusing to work, etc, are not enough to remove a child from his or her parents. Some people here have mentioned that Caylee was brought to wild sex and drug parties. That may have been enough to catch the systems attention but it also would not have been enough for the parents to retain custody. casey would prbably be offered what's known as voluntary services, and that is it. By the way, I have yet to see any real evidence that Caylee was hauled to wild sex and drug parties. There may be one photo with her at a party but nowhere was there evidence that sex and drugs were occurring there.
To take a child from a home, you basically need one of the following: Bruises, a filthy, dangerous house, a child who is not going to school if school-aged, a child not getting enough to eat, or with a filthy or inappropriately clothed, evidenc e of sexual abuse, or evidence that the parent put the child in dsanger of imminent harm, such as by locking them in a car unattended. We may all have our suspicions of what casey did with Caylee, but there is no real evidence that she neglected or abused her until the end. And, as missmybaby so eloquently stated, casey would have had a ton of people attesting to what a wonderful, attentive and loving mother casey was to Caylee. I don't think there was much anyone could have done without a crystal ball to stop casey from killing her baby.