Casey & Family Psychological Profile #4

[stilettos]

I agree with the above--Casey's personality disorder is not amenable to treatment, per se. She can't be made "all better," or gain what she lacks.

However, she can be taught to channel her behavior appropriately. And productive work is central to this, IMO.

I would expect that each family member would be treated individually. They're going to need a lot---to process their recent traumas well before addressing any underlying issues. At some point, though, it probably would be very valuable for them to undergo some sort of family therapy--ideally with Mallory, as well, if she's to remain a part of the family constellation.

Okay, OT can someone explain the reasons a personality disordered pt is considered not able to be treated or "cured". I have a daughter that is BPD and was told by the psychiatrists that she will not EVER get well but some behaviors can be redirected if it costs her more than she wants to remain in the behavior. I just want to understand why some disorders can get well and others not???

 

[Whisperer]

To CageyKaren:
Correctional Officers do not chart or do any mental health progress notes. They record their daily observations as they would for all prisoners. It is recorded in a journal and given as a shift report....very brief. If their is a problem they would call a mental health worker right away to evaluate. That worker would do all the writing. The exception would be a bonafide suicidal inmate. As Russell stated, if an inmate is on "Suicide Precautions" they (custody) would record every x15 minutes (if he is restrained) and every hour otherwise. Custody would be assigned close to the inmate. The inmate is in special cell that is plexi-glassed on one side and halfway on 2 other sides. Their notes would indicate he is eating, sleeping, reading, anything to indicate he is alive and well. These are state prison guidelines but I am sure they are similar to the County jail system, perhaps w/o the glassed housing but I do not know.

 

[Whisperer]

Okay, OT can someone explain the reasons a personality disordered pt is considered not able to be treated or "cured". I have a daughter that is BPD and was told by the psychiatrists that she will not EVER get well but some behaviors can be redirected if it costs her more than she wants to remain in the behavior. I just want to understand why some disorders can get well and others not???

__________________

This may be oversimplified but I consider it true. I was once told by a wise professor years ago, "Anyone's behavior, even lifestyle and sexual preferences, can be changed given a controlled environment, however, these special environments can not and will not ever change a person's thinking."

Personality disorders are all about thinking and how they view the world. I don't agree with your Dr. when he says, "never". I am convinced (so far) that borderlines will change in time for self-preservation. I think they mellow with age, but that is just an opinion based on a brief time of exposure to them and some of the psychologists who have studied it. Let's face it...they can't keep this up forever!

 

[OneLostGrl]

Okay, OT can someone explain the reasons a personality disordered pt is considered not able to be treated or "cured". I have a daughter that is BPD and was told by the psychiatrists that she will not EVER get well but some behaviors can be redirected if it costs her more than she wants to remain in the behavior. I just want to understand why some disorders can get well and others not???

Well, I'm no expert...

It's true there is no "cure" but with the will and proper tools the behaviors can change and the sufferer can live a decent life, devoid of self-sabatoge. DBT is amazing- IF the patient is ready and willing to change... and use what is taught.. The hardest part is getting them to realize, to admit to themselves that something is faulty with their thought process, their coping tools and be willing to change.

But there IS hope!

 

[OneLostGrl]

__________________

This may be oversimplified but I consider it true. I was once told by a wise professor years ago, "Anyone's behavior, even lifestyle and sexual preferences, can be changed given a controlled environment, however, these special environments can not and will not ever change a person's thinking."

Personality disorders are all about thinking and how they view the world. I don't agree with your Dr. when he says, "never". I am convinced (so far) that borderlines will change in time for self-preservation. I think they mellow with age, but that is just an opinion based on a brief time of exposure to them and some of the psychologists who have studied it. Let's face it...they can't keep this up forever!

I agree..

 

[elementary]

__________________

This may be oversimplified but I consider it true. I was once told by a wise professor years ago, "Anyone's behavior, even lifestyle and sexual preferences, can be changed given a controlled environment, however, these special environments can not and will not ever change a person's thinking."

Personality disorders are all about thinking and how they view the world. I don't agree with your Dr. when he says, "never". I am convinced (so far) that borderlines will change in time for self-preservation. I think they mellow with age, but that is just an opinion based on a brief time of exposure to them and some of the psychologists who have studied it. Let's face it...they can't keep this up forever!

I would add that some argue that if a person experiences a massive enough life crisis it is possible for some real change to occur.

In response to the OP: There are two problems with personality disorders: 1. they are ego syntonic, rather than ego dystonic. Non-disordered people are able to experience a dissonance within themselves and anxiety (ego-dystonic) that somehow they don't measure up to their own image of themselves. Overdone, it can lead to neurosis. Whereas the disordered don't think there is anything wrong with them, ever. Which explains why they blame everything on anything outside themselves. 2) The disordered therefore lack insight, which makes it extremely difficult for permanent change to take place. They rarely come for therapy as well.

I think it all depends on the severity of a disorder as to what kind of authentic personality change can take place. And many, many years of therapy.. But it seems to me that it is very entrenched and the most that can be accomplished is to teach and reinforce and reward the client for adaptive behaviours.

I (there are also others in the literature) am not convinced that BPD is a personality disorder but rather a sign of immaturity and perhaps something else. But I'll leave it at that because I haven't recently kept up with the literature.

 

[elementary]

Well, I'm no expert...

It's true there is no "cure" but with the will and proper tools the behaviors can change and the sufferer can live a decent life, devoid of self-sabatoge. DBT is amazing- IF the patient is ready and willing to change... and use what is taught.. The hardest part is getting them to realize, to admit to themselves that something is faulty with their thought process, their coping tools and be willing to change.

But there IS hope!

I agree, and I believe there is especial hope for borderline.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I would add that some argue that if a person experiences a massive enough life crisis it is possible for some real change to occur.

In response to the OP: There are two problems with personality disorders: 1. they are ego syntonic, rather than ego dystonic. Non-disordered people are able to experience a dissonance within themselves and anxiety (ego-dystonic) that somehow they don't measure up to their own image of themselves. Overdone, it can lead to neurosis. Whereas the disordered don't think there is anything wrong with them, ever. Which explains why they blame everything on anything outside themselves. 2) The disordered therefore lack insight, which makes it extremely difficult for permanent change to take place. They rarely come for therapy as well.

I think it all depends on the severity of a disorder as to what kind of authentic personality change can take place. And many, many years of therapy.. But it seems to me that it is very entrenched and the most that can be accomplished is to teach and reinforce and reward the client for adaptive behaviours.

I (there are also others in the literature) am not convinced that BPD is a personality disorder but rather a sign of immaturity and perhaps something else. But I'll leave it at that because I haven't recently kept up with the literature.

great post- ITA w/bolded.

 

[Verité]

I would add that some argue that if a person experiences a massive enough life crisis it is possible for some real change to occur.

In response to the OP: There are two problems with personality disorders: 1. they are ego syntonic, rather than ego dystonic. Non-disordered people are able to experience a dissonance within themselves and anxiety (ego-dystonic) that somehow they don't measure up to their own image of themselves. Overdone, it can lead to neurosis. Whereas the disordered don't think there is anything wrong with them, ever. Which explains why they blame everything on anything outside themselves. 2) The disordered therefore lack insight, which makes it extremely difficult for permanent change to take place. They rarely come for therapy as well.

I think it all depends on the severity of a disorder as to what kind of authentic personality change can take place. And many, many years of therapy.. But it seems to me that it is very entrenched and the most that can be accomplished is to teach and reinforce and reward the client for adaptive behaviours.

I (there are also others in the literature) am not convinced that BPD is a personality disorder but rather a sign of immaturity and perhaps something else. But I'll leave it at that because I haven't recently kept up with the literature.

Thanks for your 1, 2 above. Also, re BPDs, I'd like to respond to your comments, but recognize some aren't interested in hearing about
"personality profiling" (despite the topic of this thread). I always enjoy your posts, and this one was excellent.

 

[Whisperer]

Well, I'm no expert...

It's true there is no "cure" but with the will and proper tools the behaviors can change and the sufferer can live a decent life, devoid of self-sabatoge. DBT is amazing- IF the patient is ready and willing to change... and use what is taught.. The hardest part is getting them to realize, to admit to themselves that something is faulty with their thought process, their coping tools and be willing to change.

But there IS hope!

OLG... You have a good handle on things, don't cha? How in the world you got here from where you were bewilders me. You should consider sharing your knowledge in outpatient, or writing a book. You are a wealth of knowledge when it comes to certain human behavior. You have been able to give us insight into "Anthony" behavior....I am glad you are here :angel:

 

[Knot4u2no]

OLG... You have a good handle on things, don't cha? How in the world you got here from where you were bewilders me. You should consider sharing your knowledge in outpatient, or writing a book. You are a wealth of knowledge when it comes to certain human behavior. You have been able to give us insight into "Anthony" behavior....I am glad you are here :angel:

I think writing a book would be about right!
Russell

 

[OneLostGrl]

OLG... You have a good handle on things, don't cha? How in the world you got here from where you were bewilders me. You should consider sharing your knowledge in outpatient, or writing a book. You are a wealth of knowledge when it comes to certain human behavior. You have been able to give us insight into "Anthony" behavior....I am glad you are here :angel:

:blowkiss:

 

[OneLostGrl]

I think writing a book would be about right!
Russell

I'd have to learn big words and there would be far too many typo's. :crazy: But :blowkiss: to you too- for your kind words

 

[Friday]

Y'all are spoiled. The Ativan Fairy never, ever visits me.

Me Either! ROFL Tater, you crack me up all the time.

 

[EclecticArtist]

RE: MOMMY DEAREST, Sociopath Women Who Kill

http://www.officer.com/web/online/Investigation/Mommy-Dearest/18$45493

Wonderful article! After reading this, I have a few questions. If a person has done this act (killed her child), and refuses to help LE, or explain anything to LE, parents, siblings, after all has simmered down and people have goe about their every day business, does this Sociopathic mother ever feel abandoned, and feel "out of the loop"? Would they, at some point and time, want the limelight back on themselves? To get the ultimate "fame", do they ever confess? Would this not get them back in the news?

This article refers to women take their secret to their grave, as they feel they have put something over on LE, parents etc.. Is playing this game more important to them or is being the attention and having the spotlight on them more important?

RE: Casey: In her mind, not saying anything, not helping find Caylee, or being truthful, does this behavior have more benefits for herself than if she were to have told the truth, in the begining?

 

[scrabble]

For the life of me, I will never understand, why she told so many lies -- lying over simple things makes no sense to me.

 

[Tinsel]

I sense that she has the kind of disorder that will last a certain amount of her time in her life, and then improve as she gains maturity. It might help her to treat it. But it's like a common cold, it will get better with time, but it feels good to treat it. However, it will get better on it's own regardless.

Now that she is in jail, I believe her mental illness will get worse initially, primarily because she is a chameleon, and somewhat isolated. Then when she is exposed to people, they are either focused on their law or corrections careers or completely dangerous in one way or another. This is what this young woman has to negotiate now.

I believe she and CA have basically severed ties for the time being. Too painful to continue their relationship under the circumstances.

There is just no closure for anyone in this tale. That's what I'm learning.

 

[stilettos]

For those that posted an answer to my question about tx of BPD, THANK YOU!!! Our daughter is 26 now and we have been dealing with this with Dr's since she was 8yrs old. I appreciate the info.

 

[Issi]

For the life of me, I will never understand, why she told so many lies -- lying over simple things makes no sense to me.

I never understood either. There are just people in this world that will argue that a black cat is white... for no reason at all.


I wonder often whether or not she is getting any kind of mental health care in the duration of her incarceration. And I don't mean pharmaceuticals.

 

[Lovejac]

Found this and it gives me hope for them.

In his motion, attorney Brad Conway points out that George Anthony recently tried to commit suicide. He also acknowledged that both he and Cindy Anthony are getting professional help to deal with the grief of losing their granddaughter

http://www.wesh.com/news/18786804/detail.html