Casey & Family Psychological Profile #7

[OneLostGrl]

And I love your Avatar. The best!

Thanks.. though I didn't make that one I do like it! May is almost over but Mental health awareness is important all year 'round, IMO. It makes me crazy.. people trying to blame horrible crimes and poor judgement on mental illness. We have morals and a conscience, we know what we should and shouldn't do and unless we are "insane" (think Yates) at the time of the crime, we have a choice. Mental illness is not a murdering disease or a raping disease- it's not a criminal's disease as todays stigma and bias would have us believe. Bipolar does not make us kill- Psychosis does not make us kill. A person with mental illness is no more likely than any other person to commit a crime. They are however much more likely to commit horrible acts upon themselves (self injury, drug use, suicide etc) if they go without treatment.

We are not bad, we are sick but we can get well! Society needs to stop portraying those with mental illness as bad, as dangerous.. what happens when it's their child that becomes ill?! All this time their child knows how they feel about those with mental illness- do they really think their child will come to them for help?! I think not!

Sorry- rambling but it's what i do- I'll never shut up about this topic it's too important

 

[Searchfortruth]

Also, Cindy being the only girl and whatever attention she received because of it may be part of the reason why Casey was enabled more than Lee...? Just guessing again.

 

[Searchfortruth]

Thanks.. though I didn't make that one I do like it! May is almost over but Mental health awareness is important all year 'round, IMO. It makes me crazy.. people trying to blame horrible crimes and poor judgement on mental illness. We have morals and a conscience, we know what we should and shouldn't do and unless we are "insane" (think Yates) at the time of the crime, we have a choice. Mental illness is not a murdering disease or a raping disease- it's not a criminal's disease as todays stigma and bias would have us believe. Bipolar does not make us kill- Psychosis does not make us kill. A person with mental illness is no more likely than any other person to commit a crime. They are however much more likely to commit horrible acts upon themselves (self injury, drug use, suicide etc) if they go without treatment.

We are not bad, we are sick but we can get well! Society needs to stop portraying those with mental illness as bad, as dangerous.. what happens when it's their child that becomes ill?! All this time their child knows how they feel about those with mental illness- do they really think their child will come to them for help?! I think not! Sorry- rambling but it's what i do- I'll never shut up about this topic it's too important

Bolded portion above does relate to the heart of this case, IMO. Here we have a mother, an RN, who knows her daughter has problems, but never manages to take her for help. Parent's wouldn't think twice if their child was physically sick in taking them to the Dr., but mental illness, for whatever reason, is harder to come to terms with. Cindy told Casey's friend that her daughter is a sociopath, yet she was not once seen by a counselor. Cindy's own mother said that Cindy went to counseling, but after she told her to kick Casey out, Cindy never went back.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Wonder what the final word will be on KC's diagnosis from a Forensic Psychologist/Psychiatrist? Guess we won't hear it until trial.

I doubt she has been given a diagnosis.
As far as we know (and we know who visits her in jail, even doctors, lawyers etc) all she had was the eval before being released on bond. I don't know if you remember but her bond was paid and then it took like another day (maybe even 2) for her to be let out as she was on a "hold" waiting for her psych eval. That eval is usually just to make sure society is safe (is she "insane" hearing voices telling her to kill people when she is released..- is she homicidal? that kind of thing) and the person themselves is safe (Is she suicidal? Is she thinking of hurting herself..) to be released on bond. She was released on bond so they obviously found her safe, sane and competent at the time or she would have had to stay... they can't risk letting her out and then she kills someone.

It's not usually a hugely detailed evaluation and doesn't usually come with a diagnosis- those come later if there is going to be a "psych" defense or never if no psych defense. So my guess is we will never know.. I don't think they would tell us even if they knew.

I doubt there is any simple answer anyhow, I don't think what's wrong with her is as easy as a any one dx. but that's just me.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Ever notice how CA's face goes all pointy when she is angry? Her nose almost twitches. She looks like an animal that is about to bite.

Yeah, same look every time too.. it's like it's what happens to her when she's trying to come up with her next move. Casey gets that sideways grin (only half her mouth smiles) when she thinks she's (or her laywers) being slick. And of course we have poor George's lie look! These people are so transparent it's scary that it took so long for people to figure them out!

 

[OneLostGrl]

Bolded portion above does relate to the heart of this case, IMO. Here we have a mother, an RN, who knows her daughter has problems, but never manages to take her for help. Parent's wouldn't think twice if their child was physically sick in taking them to the Dr., but mental illness, for whatever reason, is harder to come to terms with. Cindy told Casey's friend that her daughter is a sociopath, yet she was not once seen by a counselor. Cindy's own mother said that Cindy went to counseling, but after she told her to kick Casey out, Cindy never went back.

Cindy needs Casey like this, she needs George like this. If they got help and didn't need her anymore she would have nothing to live for. It's what makes these women feel worthy and fulfilled, they need to feel needed even though they resent the people who need them! it's the only thing they have to make their loved ones stay. If they NEED her they can't LEAVE her!

Much of Cindy's behavior is like co-dependency.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I can make three guesses, and would bet that she was dxed at least two of them.

I won't bore the list be repeating those three dxs.

LOL... got a legal pad I can borrow? I ran out of room on my notepad

 

[OneLostGrl]

My daughter and her friends will text each other when they are sitting in the car next to each other.

My son texts me from his bedroom sometimes, rather than walking his lazy a$$ out here to talk to me. :crazy:

 

[OneLostGrl]

Enmeshment = devouring. It's often callex, "smother love."

It's what it feels like too. You grow up not being allowed to have a self. You never learn who you are you never become anyone real. Your morals, your beliefs, your character, everything about you belongs to someone else.

 

[Searchfortruth]

Cindy needs Casey like this, she needs George like this. If they got help and didn't need her anymore she would have nothing to live for. It's what makes these women feel worthy and fulfilled, they need to feel needed even though they resent the people who need them! it's the only thing they have to make their loved ones stay. If they NEED her they can't LEAVE her!

Much of Cindy's behavior is like co-dependency.

Wow, this is very interesting and sad. It makes me wonder what Caylee's life would have been like. I don't guess anything would have changed and she might have ended up being another "need" for Cindy.

 

[countzero]

My son texts me from his bedroom sometimes, rather than walking his lazy a$$ out here to talk to me. :crazy:

Oh my gosh, I must be the last hold out. Our cellphones are turned off after we get home. If they want to talk to someone they can use the house phone. Also they know NOT to use the cellphone when we are eating out or at church.

 

[SoSueMe]

What are your thoughts on all of this?

Gee, you sound like a therapist. LOL :genie:

Sorry, it just struck me funny. :blowkiss:

 

[SoSueMe]

...
All her fake sweetness with the bite in the middle... the smile never leaving her face so nobody but the intended victim knows that it was what it was. arrggh!

Oh my gosh, I know exactly what you mean by this. There is one particular inlaw that will do this to me. My husband will say, "I didn't notice anything" and I tell him, "no and you never will."

They do hide it well don't they? Masters - they are masters at it.

 

[songline]

Thanks, honey!

But, you KNOW I'm gonna keep analyzing KC. :blowkiss::blowkiss:;-)

But, seriously, I think Verite is referencing Erickson. I happen to admire Erickson.

Erickson opined that during different stages of development, the person has a dicotamy to resolve, starting at birth.

For instance, I have noticed that anorexics are often stuck at the Shame v. Productivity stage (age three to five?)

I'm explaining this badly, and prolly screwing it up. I haven't read Erickson since nursing school.

I have not read Erickson: Maybe I should.
I believe consciousness begins in the womb...
Food disorder IMO begins at the nourishing point which is immediately. A mom breast feeding that has no milk, or is nervous, A mom that is rich and milk and calm ALL has to do with Food disorders. Baby fed on a time schedule or on demand is not the same.
I do not see a food disorder here: I see emotional imbalance, and moral decay.
Not saying that food is no issue...it sure represents a lot.
BUT YES Birth has much to do with the entire being.
How they perceive thing, handle them, deal with emotions or don't deal. it all goes back to that.
That was the nature of my work. Amazingly it also effects relationships, self worth, finances, health etc....

I have birthed (facilitated the birth) 4 babies under water that was in the early 80s; because I believe the Birth too adds to a persons blue print. (not my own births).
I stop here because it is one of my pet subjects and I can go on, and on till the end of the week....:crazy:

But sorry I can not offer much on Erickson. To read it and to study it is not the same.
As for analyzing KC go for it - :blowkiss: :blowkiss:
I think you can only get to the tip of the ice cap.
And after putting down several options you wont know which one is right till you spend the time with her. :crazy:

 

[songline]

I was reading the conversation here about Casey and George's relationship... I thought of a question. Casey was asking her father or hinting at him getting her out of jail. Now Cindy seems to be the powerful one in the relationship, the one that controls most everything, but Casey really presses her father,in jail visit w/ just him, harder to get her out of jail...wonder why ?

Daddy seems like a softer touch. :blowkiss:

 

[songline]

I was looking over the Shirley P. interview and am curious...many people, myself included, have assigned some connection between Casey's behavior and her upbringing...Cindy and George's behavior. My question is, what are your thought's on any connection between Cindy's behavior and Shirley ? I realize we don't have a lot of information about Shirley and Cindy's childhood, but given what we do know about Cindy, what would be the likely relationship be like ? Just looking for some thoughts on this...hope it's not too OT.

Just from a naked eye and I do not analyze anyone I had not spent time with. I will go for the very obvious.
CA is very comfortable with anger and anger also keeps people at bay.
CA is also comfortable being in charge - I doubt she can handle vulnerability and helplessness.
Under it all there is some very deep sadness;

A possibility would be: Shirley was a good Mom to the best of her ability. She probably was far from nurturing, but dinner was on the table. While she nourished their belly some areas were never nourished at all.
Could not handle her children cry and said things LIKE: Stop crying or I;ll give you a reason, You are a big girl, you can do this, don't cry. Shirley has a tough outer skin;
Cindy's is tougher; Casey's is even tougher then Cindy.
It 's just all displayed / expressed differently.
I do not think any of this girls had a soft place to fall.
All of them have control numbers running, which often has to do with self preservation.

I CALL THIS AN UNFAIR EVALUATION - I NEVER MET THEM,
I am just looking at a screen and that is not enough.

 

[flourish]

I do not think any of this girls had a soft place to fall.

What a beautiful, yet sad, way to express that. "A soft place to fall." I'm remembering that one, Songline, :blowkiss:

 

[Verité]

Thanks, honey!

But, you KNOW I'm gonna keep analyzing KC. :blowkiss::blowkiss:;-)

But, seriously, I think Verite is referencing Erickson. I happen to admire Erickson.

Erickson opined that during different stages of development, the person has a dicotamy to resolve, starting at birth.

For instance, I have noticed that anorexics are often stuck at the Shame v. Productivity stage (age three to five?)

I'm explaining this badly, and prolly screwing it up. I haven't read Erickson since nursing school.

Erickson's good & relevant, for sure, but my thinking is based on influences
of Margaret Mahler (descriptions of early infant-mothering milestones);
Winnicott (British School of Object Relations, i.e. development of the
"false self"); and most significantly, Heinz Kohut, who departed from
traditional psychodynamic approaches (which can make patient worse)
by emphasis on the therapist as offering an empathic milieu, as well
as all of his followers/writers (from the Chicago Psychoanalytic School).

 

[Verité]

Bolded portion above does relate to the heart of this case, IMO. Here we have a mother, an RN, who knows her daughter has problems, but never manages to take her for help. Parent's wouldn't think twice if their child was physically sick in taking them to the Dr., but mental illness, for whatever reason, is harder to come to terms with. Cindy told Casey's friend that her daughter is a sociopath, yet she was not once seen by a counselor. Cindy's own mother said that Cindy went to counseling, but after she told her to kick Casey out, Cindy never went back.

Bolding mine

Flight-from-therapy often happens--especially when therapist moves too
fast with such an intervention, vs. giving "empathic" prepartion to an
adult parent about how difficult it is to hear this/will be to do this/etc.
The patient, almost in panic about the thought of breaking those lifelong
ties, runs away so fast s/he could win a marathon.

Therapists, however well meaning, aren't perfect. . .and patient's sure
aren't, but that's why they go--to garner the strength to do what they
may already know they should do. But they for sure don't want to be
told that by someone else before they're ready to hear (they enter
therapy in a state of denial, usually)!

I don't have any objective data that says this happened, just my own
assumption based on why there's sometimes early-flight-from-therapy.

 

[Verité]

Gee, you sound like a therapist. LOL :genie:

Sorry, it just struck me funny. :blowkiss:

Not a therapist, just a blogger who sometimes blocks on questions and needs the stimulation of others' sharing. :U There: