Casey & Family Psychological Profile #7

[Verité]

Thank you for that reminder...as mom's we need/must be quick to listen and slow to speak.

I have some jokes like that with my older dc.

OTOH, even if KC is the way she is because of her upbringing...she is still responsible for any action she took. We maybe able to understand why at some point but it will never take away the fact she did what she did, even if it was "only" not calling anyone for 31 days (and I believe it was more than that).

After reading Small Sacrifices, I understood how Diane got to where she was...she still murdered her dc...but as I read I could see how her mind wrapped around to get her to that point.

I don't feel like I am making a lot of sense right now...I am not condoning or saying there was no hope to keep a murder from happening...I could just see how she got to where she was. And I think we are seeing how KC thinks and responds.

bolding mine

Lawdy, lawdy, Ms. Claudie. I can't ever hear Duran Duran's "Hungry Like A Wolf" without thinking of DD & her foot-tapping and smiling & gyrating to that tune when
they played it in Court. Or, oh, the chilling memory of her child who survived and remembered how that song was playing when DD shot the kids.
How could any such mom even listen to that song again--let alone "get in the groove" in a courtroom! You make poifect sense, as usual, Mama. :woohoo:

 

[Brini]

Yeah, same look every time too.. it's like it's what happens to her when she's trying to come up with her next move. Casey gets that sideways grin (only half her mouth smiles) when she thinks she's (or her laywers) being slick. And of course we have poor George's lie look! These people are so transparent it's scary that it took so long for people to figure them out!

IMHO the women are two cats in a bag, and the men are somewhat subordinate, referees, unsuccessful conciliators.

The men are sort of an afterthought, in that family.

 

[Brini]

Cindy needs Casey like this, she needs George like this. If they got help and didn't need her anymore she would have nothing to live for. It's what makes these women feel worthy and fulfilled, they need to feel needed even though they resent the people who need them! it's the only thing they have to make their loved ones stay. If they NEED her they can't LEAVE her!

Much of Cindy's behavior is like co-dependency.

There's one more dynamic (closed system family). Once the last kid grows up and leaves the house, the entire focus is on... the marriage!

IMHO, GA and CA need something on which to focus as a PROBLEM to be solved, to keep their marriage together.

It was KC and her shenanigans. Now, it's KC's case, and their "childfinding" activities.

 

[Brini]

LOL... got a legal pad I can borrow? I ran out of room on my notepad

:blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss::blowkiss:

 

[Brini]

It's what it feels like too. You grow up not being allowed to have a self. You never learn who you are you never become anyone real. Your morals, your beliefs, your character, everything about you belongs to someone else.

Yep! We've BOTH been there.

But, we didn't kill anybody. And, even when you were in the darkest depths, you made sure your child was safe and provided for.

My sister and I "escaped" from the house. My brother stayed, and became a lawyer (a "dad" clone).

He has recently figured out that he hates being a lawyer. He is now running a non-profit org.

 

[Brini]

Erickson's good & relevant, for sure, but my thinking is based on influences
of Margaret Mahler (descriptions of early infant-mothering milestones);
Winnicott (British School of Object Relations, i.e. development of the
"false self"); and most significantly, Heinz Kohut, who departed from
traditional psychodynamic approaches (which can make patient worse)
by emphasis on the therapist as offering an empathic milieu, as well
as all of his followers/writers (from the Chicago Psychoanalytic School).

Interesting!

We referenced some of those, in grad school. But, I've never READ them. I think I'll pick up a book or two.

The "false self" concept particularly intrigues me.

Thanks, honey!:blowkiss::blowkiss:

 

[Brini]

She sucks it up and she starts thinking about the life she created instead of the life she could have had if only she'd never had the baby. She starts acting responsibly. She starts finding herself. She starts defining herself as an adult with a child and not a child with a child. She starts putting together a new future that includes the child.

What she doesn't do is play life-and-death monopoly with her small child, introducing her to adult parties. What she doesn't do is play pickle-in-the-middle over the baby with her equally selfish and childish mother. What she doesn't do is determine that death of the child is infinitely easier than death of childish dreams.

Yep. She doesn't grow the *advertiser censored** up.

 

[Brini]

Thank you for that reminder...as mom's we need/must be quick to listen and slow to speak.

I have some jokes like that with my older dc.

OTOH, even if KC is the way she is because of her upbringing...she is still responsible for any action she took. We maybe able to understand why at some point but it will never take away the fact she did what she did, even if it was "only" not calling anyone for 31 days (and I believe it was more than that).

After reading Small Sacrifices, I understood how Diane got to where she was...she still murdered her dc...but as I read I could see how her mind wrapped around to get her to that point.

I don't feel like I am making a lot of sense right now...I am not condoning or saying there was no hope to keep a murder from happening...I could just see how she got to where she was. And I think we are seeing how KC thinks and responds.

Exactly. She still murdered a helpless toddler, because she did not want to become an adult.

 

[Brini]

bolding mine

Lawdy, lawdy, Ms. Claudie. I can't ever hear Duran Duran's "Hungry Like A Wolf" without thinking of DD & her foot-tapping and smiling & gyrating to that tune when
they played it in Court. Or, oh, the chilling memory of her child who survived and remembered how that song was playing when DD shot the kids.
How could any such mom even listen to that song again--let alone "get in the groove" in a courtroom! You make poifect sense, as usual, Mama. :woohoo:

DANG! I thunk I was the ONLY one who still has a problem with that song!

 

[Gma Kat]

I said this many months ago. If the car was stuck on the railroad track, neither CA nor KC would push Caylee out of the way to save her. They would jump out the car first, let the train hit the car, then blame each other for not getting Caylee out.

Selfish, self-centered, manipulative humans. Kinda/sorta what already happened to Caylee without the train.

I'm pretty sure they'd blame the train...........and say ZFG was driving.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Ohh, I like all your strong talk which maybe some young folks could be/do in the flick-of-a-thumb. But, becoz you sound so strong, I just gotta wonder (and you can slap me back down for being so impertinent) why you've got a quote from Anais Nin, someone who, if we're to believe her long-time sig. other, Gore Vidal, says she didn't have much of a self either, way on into her adulthood????

Granted, I have not read the follow up posts to this so this could all be put to bed by now... but ..

I know that I love me some Anais (I have used her quotes here several times, actually made another icon just last night with one of her quotes) because she DIDN'T have a self for almost her entire life Yet she never murdered anyone, tried to excuse her bad behaviors, point her finger at everyone but herself for her the way she chose to deal with her issues. I admire her.. to have no clue who or what she was yet she knew what she WASN'T. She drew a line somewhere- self or no self. Most "normal" humans can't even claim that!

 

[OneLostGrl]

Exactly. She still murdered a helpless toddler, because she did not want to become an adult.

I'm with ya, woman! I don't care what kind of life you had, what mental illness you may claim, what medications you are on, there is no excuse for murder, EVER! Wanna be a drunk, a drug addict, whatever, fine but to kill someone- your own child? It doesn't cut it with me and I get why she is the way she is- numbing herself up with the lying, stealing, partying, sex.. hell, in this day and age that's almost the "normal" reaction to people who grew up smothered by their parent/s. But nothing she went through is an excuse to kill someone. I don't care if she was molested or neglected or gang raped- it causes huge damage, you carry it forever but NONE of it turns a person into a murderer. None of it- I don't care what anyone says, I know it doesn't!

Ya'll know I don't think she's a Psycho/Sociopath and THAT'S what's so disturbing to me. One would expect it from a psychopath. You can write that off as "aww, she's just evil"... or "She never loved her daughter, there was no bond" or "she hates her mom so she killed her mothers gandaughter".. "she don't care, she doesn't FEEL, none of this effects her" But IMO she is NOT a psychopath, she isn't just straight up evil. She's a messed up, confused, lazy, lying, emotionally abused woman who expected her mommy to fix her mistakes her whole life. If she did this she needs to be held accountable.

Arrgh, I'm gettin' all worked up over this crap again.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Yep. She doesn't grow the *advertiser censored** up.

Dude, it isn't even so much not growing up that gets me. It's that she was willing to choose murder over.. what? Continuing life the way it was, the same way she'd lived her whole life? Fine, be a loser, keep lying and stealing and mooching off others, keep f^ckin' guys you don't love and drinking too much. Keep taking your kid to parties with you and keep pretending you have a job to shut your mom up, keep taking the easy out (I get that-I did it my entire life. It aint healthy for anyone but better than murder, IMO) Nobody was even trying to make her grow up- everyone was happy pretending.. So it's not even like it was grow the f^ck up or kill my kid. ya know?!

I really hope she didn't do this.

 

[Verité]

Granted, I have not read the follow up posts to this so this could all be put to bed by now... but ..

I know that I love me some Anias (I have used her quotes here several times, actually made another icon just last night with one of her quotes) because she DIDN'T have a self for almost her entire life Yet she never murdered anyone, tried to excuse her bad behaviors, point her finger at everyone but herself for her the way she chose to deal with her issues. I admire her.. to have no clue who or what she was yet she knew what she WASN'T. She drew a line somewhere- self or no self. Most "normal" humans can't even claim that!

Yeah, and kept right on lovin' Gore despite his preference for his Best Man,
unlike Ms. CA, who says, "Y'know what? In my country, we prefer opposites."
Ohh, I better not get so political or I'll see my head rollin' by! (No follow-up
post from anyone yet, but y'might still see 'em sayin', "off w/her head" before
night's over).

 

[jeepgirlva]

I'm with ya, woman! I don't care what kind of life you had, what mental illness you may claim, what medications you are on, there is no excuse for murder, EVER! Wanna be a drunk, a drug addict, whatever, fine but to kill someone- your own child? It doesn't cut it with me and I get why she is the way she is- numbing herself up with the lying, stealing, partying, sex.. hell, in this day and age that's almost the "normal" reaction to people who grew up smothered by their parent/s. But nothing she went through is an excuse to kill someone. I don't care if she was molested or neglected or gang raped- it causes huge damage, you carry it forever but NONE of it turns a person into a murderer. None of it- I don't care what anyone says, I know it doesn't!

Ya'll know I don't think she's a Psycho/Sociopath and THAT'S what's so disturbing to me. One would expect it from a psychopath. You can write that off as "aww, she's just evil"... or "She never loved her daughter, there was no bond" or "she hates her mom so she killed her mothers gandaughter".. "she don't care, she doesn't FEEL, none of this effects her" But IMO she is NOT a psychopath, she isn't just straight up evil. She's a messed up, confused, lazy, lying, emotionally abused woman who expected her mommy to fix her mistakes her whole life. If she did this she needs to be held accountable.

Arrgh, I'm gettin' all worked up over this crap again.

Add the element of spite the mother daughter relationship (struggle for power) all the mothers attention is now on KC I feel she is punishing her mother by not acknowledging her in court..or could that be because she feels guilty and can't look her mother in the eyes?

 

[DaughterAlice]

I'm not sure if this fits into a pre-meditated discussion, or a psyche profile discussion.

I was kind of pondering that if KC is found guilty & it's shown to be pre-meditated, then the act of murdering her daughter may very well be the only thing (of significance) that she truly accomplished in her whole life.

Think about it: didn't finish high school, didn't go to college, couldn't hold down a steady relationship, never had the means to move out on her own, couldn't manage to get CA & GA to move out so that she & AH could take over the house, never had a professional job (pretend job doesn't count) . . . .

I wonder if she may actually feel a sense of accomplishment? Did she finally succeed at something?

Sorry to be so morose.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Add the element of spite the mother daughter relationship (struggle for power) all the mothers attention is now on KC I feel she is punishing her mother by not acknowledging her in court..or could that be because she feels guilty and can't look her mother in the eyes?

I don't know, she seems quite pleased with herself- like she doesn't even WANT her mothers attention or messed up version of "love" anymore. I don't know though.. I think we all crave our mothers love even if our mother is a "Cindy", (I know I do and my mom is a "Cindy"! LOL).

I don't think she totally hates her mom. But I have no way to know, ya know?

 

[OneLostGrl]

I'm not sure if this fits into a pre-meditated discussion, or a psyche profile discussion.

I was kind of pondering that if KC is found guilty & it's shown to be pre-meditated, then the act of murdering her daughter may very well be the only thing (of significance) that she truly accomplished in her whole life.

Think about it: didn't finish high school, didn't go to college, couldn't hold down a steady relationship, never had the means to move out on her own, couldn't manage to get CA & GA to move out so that she & AH could take over the house, never had a professional job (pretend job doesn't count) . . . .

I wonder if she may actually feel a sense of accomplishment? Did she finally succeed at something?

Sorry to be so morose.

huh woww. good post! imagine if she does?

 

[OneLostGrl]

Yeah, and kept right on lovin' Gore despite his preference for his Best Man,
unlike Ms. CA, who says, "Y'know what? In my country, we prefer opposites."
Ohh, I better not get so political or I'll see my head rollin' by! (No follow-up
post from anyone yet, but y'might still see 'em sayin', "off w/her head" before
night's over).

haha LOL!

 

[DaughterAlice]

huh woww. good post! imagine if she does?

Thanks! Every blue moon I have a little brainstorm pop into my head.:waitasec: