Casey & Family Psychological Profile #7

[Brini]

Just because it is not common or "natural" doesn't mean that the act is one of an insane individual. Using that definition, the CEO of Enron must also have been insane for bilking his corporation of millions of dollars because I can't imagine someone honestly believing that they could 'get away' with a crime of that magnitude.

If it is proven a crime of planning (duct tape, Zanny the Nanny) and commission (31 days), insanity as a defense is a moot point. Insanity is not planned or contrived, it is a condition independent of the wishes of the individual. IMO, the crime against Caylee does not fit that description, no matter how much we wish that mothers would not act to kill their own children.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[Whisperer]

Whenever a parent of a child states "I believe everything my child tells me"...Big red flags should rise up and neon signs should flash...Huge character flaw in that person. At that moment, the parent is putting their child on a pedestal and refusing to see or suspect and human flaws will or have occurred.

No insanity defense going on here. I still expect them to explain away the 31 days with mental illness of some kind, though. By now she should be antsy.

I suspect the family is keeping her quiet and appeased with videos and appearances. It makes cindy and casey happy to see each other on TV. They feel important and famous. I suspect the A's have never been happier....no, not because of losing Caylee....but having peace and quite in their life. Life is much easier for them.

As far as the trial, I cannot picture ANY defense, I wonder if they will just rest after the State's case, having done all the challenges during that time.

 

[Brini]

I suppose a legal insanity defense might include something like a criminal act committed while sleep walking, or in a strange state of some sort. Not exactly insanity, but an act that was committed while one was not in control of oneself. I think we have all done odd things while in a sort of stupor.. I once placed the TP in the fridge and ketchup in the bathroom .. try explaining THAT to the family! I wasn't insane, just so tired my mind quit working... of course that wasn't a crime, but I am saying it is the same sort of thing..doing something truly dim, not due to stupidity, nor due to insanity, but due to a temporary mental problem. PERHAPS something like that is what this lawyer was refferring to.

Yep. I have put the bleach in the fridge. We all have "brain farts."

None of us have ever murdered and hidden a body during a brain fart, and then tried to clean up the case and deflect blame over months.

And, KC has no history of somnambulism. If she did, it wouldn't fly, because of the above reasons.

She knew what she was doing, and she tried to cover it up.

She's a sociopath, and sociopathy is a character disorder. There is no disconnect from reality.

The only child killer who was insane, clinically and legally, was Andrea Yates.

 

[Brini]

(respectfully snipped)(BBM)

Off Topic a bit, but I'm curious as to the meaning of the phrase/term you use above "maternal mother." What does that mean in psychology? TIA

Caylee's mother's mother, i.e., CA.

 

[Brini]

Sing it out! I'll do harmony!

:blowkiss:

Can someone give us a concert A? I'll do descant!

 

[Brini]

I didn't find the paper that TL wrote, but did find this Setinel article on it, linked below. I copied just a part of the article that I thought was interesting to the discussion here..

The 30-page packet highlights problems with some of the evidence and describes how aspects of Anthony's case do not fit the state criteria for the death penalty -- a sentence reserved for the worst of the worst homicides.

It touches on Anthony's erratic behavior after her daughter's birth that suggests signs of emotional or mental distress. The report ended with pictures of Anthony during happier times, as a child surrounded by her parents and her brother.


The report is not an admission of guilt. The idea is to explore whether facts in the case truly justify the death penalty if a suspect is convicted.

Lenamon's report addresses the sentence phase, when the jury hears evidence for and against imposing the ultimate penalty.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-casey0608nov06,0,7406889.story

Except the A family was ALWAYS dysfunctional. Since back in Ohio. And, Ryan (KC's oldest friend) said she was always a liar and schemer.

All this was long before Caylee was born.

But, even if PPP WAS valid, in this case-- we are still stuck with the legal definition of insanity. KC had to not know what she was doing was wrong.

 

[Brini]

I quite realize that 'insanity' is a legal definition, not a medical one. I have been all through that subject, having gone through having my father declared insane, and confined in a mental institution.. horrible time in my life!

I still feel that there is a broader case to be made for some sort of diminshed responsibility .. there is certainly something amiss with KC, not 'insanity' as the word is properly used, but 'insane' as the word is used in ordinary vernacular speech. She is so obviously not legally insane that I doubt an expierienced lawyer like this one would be refferring to that as any sort of defense.. so I am back with some sort of mitigating circumstance caused by a hormone imbalance or some such.

I just cannot come up with anything pertaining to KC that is 'legal enough' to pass muster in a court of law though. Of course she is some sort of narcissist or physocopath, but that is not a legal defense.

If narcissistic personality disorder or sociopathy were legal defenses, the jails would be empty.

 

[Brini]

I agree, this would have been the perfect defense in this case. He could argue mental health issues (not insanity) and perhaps KC would have seen the light of day again in about 15 years. He had to see the amount of evidence and the most likely outcome for KC (guilty) and this sort of strategy just may have worked in her best interest.

Not with no psychiatric history. KC has none.

 

[justsaying]

Whenever a parent of a child states "I believe everything my child tells me"...Big red flags should rise up and neon signs should flash...Huge character flaw in that person. At that moment, the parent is putting their child on a pedestal and refusing to see or suspect and human flaws will or have occurred.

No insanity defense going on here. I still expect them to explain away the 31 days with mental illness of some kind, though. By now she should be antsy.

I suspect the family is keeping her quiet and appeased with videos and appearances. It makes cindy and casey happy to see each other on TV. They feel important and famous. I suspect the A's have never been happier....no, not because of losing Caylee....but having peace and quite in their life. Life is much easier for them.

As far as the trial, I cannot picture ANY defense, I wonder if they will just rest after the State's case, having done all the challenges during that time.

Not Guilty By Reason of Insanity is hard to come by in our state. One of the prongs of proof of insanity is the test "would the person have done the same crime with a policeman standing beside them". A truly delusional person would and explain it to the policeman that the voices from the tv instructed them to or voices directly from God instructed them. The facility where I worked as admissions officer had several Elvises and some Jesus Christs and one George Washington.

 

[Brini]

This is also why I'v been thinking, "Temporary Mental Derangement due to explosive disorder could have been a viable defense if JB would have considered it but since we know JB doesn't want to entertain the thought of a mental health issue deffense is going to have to do some fancy footwork unless the defense intends to blame it on CA's imaginary perp who lives in her smug head currently.

Nope. It's still obvious that she knew what she was doing.

 

[Brini]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-casey0608nov06,0,7406889.story
Report argues against death for Casey Anthony

(clip)
Some of the arguments outlined against death include:

* The techniques used to analyze hair and air samples from the trunk of Anthony's car to prove evidence of a body are "novel, experimental, in the early stages of development, inconclusive and highly susceptible to mishandling," Lenamon wrote. Even if the evidence is enough for a guilty verdict, it would not be enough to support the death penalty, according to the report.

Except the air sample science has already enjoyed a lot fo legal precident.

And, JB forgot to mention that DNA found in the trunk, which is a decades-old science.

 

[Brini]

Baez mentioned Lenamon's report in his Change of Venue motion.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/05/04/casey.anthony.motion.pdf

5/4/2009
MOTION FOR CHANGE OF VENUE

pg. 5 of 16

Recently, Local 6 News in Orlando posted a story entitled “Baby Photos of Caylee’s Mom used in Request to Avoid Death Penalty.” www.local6.com/news/17898874/detail.html. Media had gotten a copy of a memorandum prepared by the defense for the prosecution. Local 6 News quoted extensively from the defense memorandum, stating that, “Anthony’s defense team also raises the possibility that Caylee may have been poisoned by chloroform, saying, ‘Death may have occurred while the child was sedated or from an unwitting overdose of a sedative."

Could be! Which is still felony murder, since it's illegal to sedate one's child with chloroform.

 

[Brini]

Well, I respectfully disagree with Lenamon concerning his plea. If she doesn't get Death, she will spend the rest of her life in a State Facility. I suspect the Supreme Court with its new appointees will do away with the penalty in the next eight years...yes, I am cynical

For many who don't believe in the DP, I would love to introduce you to some criminals that would change your mind. Recently, a parent of a known victim who has a foundation told me at one time he didn't believe in the DP. Now he advocates "Take a murderer home for Christmas" if you like. The public does not get to see or know about the heinous crimes that happen in the unpublicized cases....too sick for the public to handle. They are so bad that most of you would be shocked at first, then very ill and the inprint would never leave you. You do not want this burden, it changes your reality and perspective on life. I realize that people here think they have heard it all but you probably haven't. Consider yourselves blessed.

There are people sitting in prison that ARE taking up oxygen that is precious for life around us. I do mean this literally. If you met them or read their files, there is a likely chance that you would change your mind in a heartbeat and understand why we have this law.

Casey Anthony is small potatoes in the system. Psychologically speaking, the only thing I see with her is an Inadequate Personality, like most of the prison population. I don't care what they do with her. To me she is insignificant. Caylee was the important one in that family and the only ones advocating for her at the moment is the SA's office and of course, Websleuths!

Or, Bundy. When he escaped, he murdered a few more women.

Some murderers ADMIT that if they ever got out, they'd be right back at it. The DP would ensure that that didn't happen.

 

[Manny]

He may have been thinking of fugue, she actually thought she was Zanny, and she taught Casey a lesson.
"A fugue state, formally Dissociative Fugue (previously called Psychogenic Fugue) (DSM-IV Dissociative Disorders 300.13[1]), is a rare psychiatric disorder characterized by reversible amnesia for personal identity, including the memories, personality and other identifying characteristics of individuality. The state is usually short-lived (hours to days), but can last months or longer. Dissociative fugue usually involves unplanned travel or wandering, and is sometimes accompanied by the establishment of a new identity. After recovery from fugue, previous memories usually return intact, however there is complete amnesia for the fugue episode. Importantly, an episode is not characterized as a fugue if it can be related to the ingestion of psychotropic substances, to trauma, to a general medical condition, or to psychiatric conditions such as delerium or dementia, bipolar disorder or depression. Fugues are usually precipitated by a stressful episode, and upon recovery there may be amnesia for the original stressor (Dissociative Amnesia)."

 

[Brini]

My bold and italics here...the violence we are addressing with the death penalty is at the end of the line. Killing or not killing the perp does not impact the behavior before the crime is committed-this is my understanding after reading 30 years of studies. However, it addresses the behavior of that particular person.

I am undecided on the DP-the circumstances that create the behaviors leading to a DP case are well worth understanding, because only then can we hope to deflect what might be coming. Until that time, can we still consider ourselves a compassionate, educated, forward thinking society and hold our criminals accountable for the worst of their crimes by taking their lives?? If the playing field was level-if there were a proportionate number of ethnicities and classes represented in relationship to the crimes, if the system was less flawed, if we could be sure that only the guilty would die...seems like a reasonable sentence to me. I do agree now that it is a sentence that should be reserved for the worst of the worst...but whose to say what that yardstick should be represented by? I mean if we could ask Caylee and she had the ability to articulate her thoughts, she might just believe that being deprived of her life was the worst crime ever. Since we can't ask her, how do we measure it?

Thanks for the rant.

That's my only problem. Access to excellent representation, in DP cases.

 

[Brini]

My thought is not doing anything can also beget violence. People have to be stopped who cannot stop themselves. I do not think the DP is a deterrent but I do think it is punishment well-deserved. We incarcerate to protect society. We put to death to avenge a terrible crime, but our society doesn't talk about that.

It is deterrent to the same murderer killing again.

 

[Brini]

In the Orlando Sentinel interview today (in current news thread), Lenamon stated that he "had great concern over the case's future because of media exposure".

So why is he going BACK on television AGAIN???!!!!

He's going on TV to keep the case from getting more media exposure.

 

[Brini]

I do not think they are involved. I do think he would get a BJ if he could, but is being watched,
I think she may be happy to see a face that is on her side, anyone in her position would be.
Is she a flirt? sure; does she use her sexuality? sure; I do not think they are involved in an emotional way at all.

They could have done a mental evaluation, but he is going in a different direction.
I think as her attorney he is self serving.
His direction will hang her.

IMHO, she'll hang herself. Not literally.

 

[Brini]

IF God forbid my kid was even in such a horrid position...I would stop acting like a jerk on TV and start screaming that this BOZO for a lawyer will hang her. Yes Bozo is in it for fame. And Geraldo Rivera IMHO is supporting that.

As far as Caylee being forgotten I agree I am the one that opened the thread that Caylee has no representation.

Particularly by her own family.

 

[Brini]

She is ? NOT!

Legally and chonologically.