Casey & Family Psychological Profile #9

[sharpar]

it takes awhile to realize the extent of their manlipulation and the extent of the lies
doesnt seem to have any fans from any of those groups now

 

[sharpar]

I dont think we will be overrun with witnesses attesting to her good character come
the penalty phase

 

[essies]

I guess all moms and dads better make sure they're having the conversation about if your friend jumps off a bridge don't you do it too, etc. And often.

"They just dumped her." A babysitter or two said they got mad when they realized KC was using them and stated she had lied to them. But KC seemed to go back and forth between different groups of friends. She had invited her old friends to Fusion but they did not go. KC was not adamant about keeping them separate.

Annie claimed that she and KC were "friends in passing" by June 2008 but why would she visit her when KC was out of jail (Annie said she was going through something and needed her friend - huh?).

I'm not trying to be contrary, just trying to keep/get a clear picture of KC in her life before June 2008. The Lake Vaj group, Jesse, Ricardo and friends (wanted KC to accompany them to PR) and TL's group all seemed to like her and didn't tell awful stories regarding their friendships with her.

I think KC was "grooming" them for the future. She had already started taking advantage of Amy. KC was a predator-she had many victims of her lies and theft in her 22 years. It's just ironically tragic that Caylee paid the ultimate price-since she was the only TRUE love KC will ever experience and it was right there in front of her all the time!!

 

[countzero]

I guess all moms and dads better make sure they're having the conversation about if your friend jumps off a bridge don't you do it too, etc. And often.

"They just dumped her." A babysitter or two said they got mad when they realized KC was using them and stated she had lied to them. But KC seemed to go back and forth between different groups of friends. She had invited her old friends to Fusion but they did not go. KC was not adamant about keeping them separate.

Annie claimed that she and KC were "friends in passing" by June 2008 but why would she visit her when KC was out of jail (Annie said she was going through something and needed her friend - huh?).

I'm not trying to be contrary, just trying to keep/get a clear picture of KC in her life before June 2008. The Lake Vaj group, Jesse, Ricardo and friends (wanted KC to accompany them to PR) and TL's group all seemed to like her and didn't tell awful stories regarding their friendships with her.

No, I don't feel you are being contrary. It really is difficult for people to understand how CA and KC work UNLESS you have been exposed to their type over a long, long period of time. I am talking daily contact.

The friends babysitting dumped her because they realized and found out she wasn't working and KC was using them. KC emailed, text, messaged probably because she had everyone's numbers and blind sent them, regardless of whether she spoke to them or not. She probably wanted to impress TL with the number of invites she had sent out.

Annie, well this chick is worried only about her own arse as well as getting the scoop or 411 on what really happened. Did KC tell? Who knows. But to sit around in your jammies, eating popcorn and watching movies doesn't exactly screaming out "I am looking for my kid" to me.

The PR crew was far too new to figure out KC. But several people who did know KC, didn't like her either. They all spoke of how much of a liar she was. As for TL, well he was getting his jollies so he wasn't about to look for trouble. KC provided that for him with her insecurities.

it takes awhile to realize the extent of their manlipulation and the extent of the lies
doesnt seem to have any fans from any of those groups now

Amen; but once you do you watch your back and wallet.

I think KC was "grooming" them for the future. She had already started taking advantage of Amy. KC was a predator-she had many victims of her lies and theft in her 22 years. It's just ironically tragic that Caylee paid the ultimate price-since she was the only TRUE love KC will ever experience and it was right there in front of her all the time!!

You got it.

 

[Bittiness39]

I am so sick of GA/CA. Seriously, they don't get it. Their grandbaby was murdered and they still believe they have the RIGHT to have it be in their house. Grow up CA/GA. KC killed her. Deal with it. get some therapy and freaking deal with it. Your daughter was a .... (fill in the likes to be with others blank) move on. She won't save herself. I Hope that they get a sentence for all of their obstruction. seriously. It is not all handled within the family. They need to get that. I hope they do get sentenced.

 

[essies]

I am so sick of GA/CA. Seriously, they don't get it. Their grandbaby was murdered and they still believe they have the RIGHT to have it be in their house. Grow up CA/GA. KC killed her. Deal with it. get some therapy and freaking deal with it. Your daughter was a .... (fill in the likes to be with others blank) move on. She won't save herself. I Hope that they get a sentence for all of their obstruction. seriously. It is not all handled within the family. They need to get that. I hope they do get sentenced.

Actually, I think they "get it"!! They just don't want to admit it to the public-for various reasons-the trial. the foundation. legal ramifications they have put themselves in, and the fact that they are now in too deep to turn around (they can't unring the bell of what they've done-and we don't know everything LE knows yet)!

 

[OneLostGrl]

Really? I never would have thought of that. Are we talking about CA? I'm not feeling this at all - that would be the strangest surprise ever (unless she suspects GA!).

LOL- not because I think Cindy is a stand up woman or anything..

I just have little doubt that another thing Casey learned from her mother is "how to throw others under the bus". Love and hate are also part of that "splitting" those with personality disorders do so well. It's like a light switch - you have no clue what will set them off. You can go from being the golden child to the reason their mother died 20 years ago if that's what they get in their head.

"Mothers" like this have no loyalty. None. They will protect what is there's but if THEY feel betrayed by "their's" they will do whatever it takes to make them and then watch them suffer for "turning on" them. I have NO problem believing Cindy could turn on her.. I'm not saying I think this is the case but knowing this kind of woman, this kind of mother, I can't rule it out.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Respectfully, Dot, I disagree.

If I had a daughter whom I knew was a sociopath, she would take the child out of the house for days, weeks or months, over my dead body, legal custody, or not.

And, I would take legal action to get custody.

And, if she HURT the baby, I'd bust her, myself-- not cover for her.

That being said-- You're right! My guess is that she exhausted them. Socios are good at that. They are either directly emotionally draining one (emotional vampires), or one is always walking on eggs, waiting for the other shoe to drop.


:blowkiss:

I know with all my preaching about personality disorders some of my earlier comments on this have probably gotten lost but I'll say it again (I can hear the collective groan! LOL).. My mother would cover for me- even if I told her I did it and dropped the body at her feet, blood on my hands. She would do the same type of thing Cindy and George are doing, though she isn't quite as aggressive with outsiders and she is a much better "charmer" than Cindy is.

My bet is Cindy was the one everyone had to walk on eggshells around and had a certain amount of fear of UNTIL Casey grew up and started practicing all her "learned behaviors" and found a few new ones to try out and found suddenly everyone feared HER wrath! Her power and evil grew larger than mommy dearest's. Her own mother taught her just what buttons to press!

 

[OneLostGrl]

I understand the defense not using it but JMHO I could see the SA discussing exactly what has been discussed here. I know i've learned a lot . The SA is going to have to overcome the, and I use these terms really loosely "Mother, cute, innocent doe eyed looking defendent" sitting at the table across from them. I see it to the SA advantage to get this "Information" out there to the jury.
Just because KC told her parents and LA the jail psychiatrrist said she was normal, again that does not mean it's true. Due to HIPPA regs, we will not see this info until trial.
Then again it may open a Pandora's Box that should be left alone in a courtroom. I will say though, I have in fact learned a lot from all of you, geesh, some of it I'm not sure I want to even know, Brini, my hat is off to you and all the others that work and help people in this field, it is truly a calling as I know I couldn't do it. Don't have the patience.
One Lost Girl had a signature posted at one time that read, "Just Snap Out Of It", really hit close to home, because I know I have said that. I wont say it again.:blowkiss:

Just another mention about the jail thing-

If anything showed up "abnormal", as in insanity, she would not have been let out on bond. That's why she was on a hold after LP paid the bond but before they let her out, she had a psych eval. They don't let people they think are insane and a danger out on bond. Also, she'd have been put on medical and started on medication to "bring her back" to sanity. If a person is found to be insane or lacking understanding of right and wrong even after the crime, they can't stand trial until sane.

We know Casey has not been on meds except for the one day she was watching the news and found out they found the body.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Maybe GA anc CA were exhausted from dealing with KC all these years too. Obviously, CA knew that KC was "not right" when she told KC's friends that KC was a sociopath that would rob them blind.

I feel sorry for the A's. KC had Caylee and held her parents hostage as they knew that KC was capable of anything. They were powerless to do anything. They were trying to teach her to be a responsible parent but she considered them controlling.

If your dog bites someone, you don't hate your dog and want it dead. You plead for it's life.

Trying to teach her to be responsible? In what kind of world? Goodness.

How does allowing your child to get away with lying about an obvious to everyone pregnancy and helping to cover it up, allowing her to claim it was Jesses's child (and lying along with her TO him) when she hadn't even BEEN with him long enough, teach any sort of responsibility? Allowing thefts (from many diffrent people, not just from the parent) and lying about at least 2 different jobs certainly teaches nothing about responsibility.

I'm sorry but a parents job is to teach their children to NOT lie and steal and blame others for your own poor judgment...

 

[OneLostGrl]

Absolutely family court!!! Should have been done many moons ago. Your right a diagnosis such as these aren't criminal, only the crimes they commit but to have more people and judges educated would certainly help keep some of those perps from slipping through the legal system to offend again. I personally only had one patient, a male age 17, placed on an aduli unit, hospitalized for 1 mon. initially and 3 mon. his second admission. First ad. he was the most gracious, caring little long haired rocker. If you walked in watching him dance to Edgar Winter you may have thought he was in a manic phaseLOL! Boy could he twirl! This was just an attention thing he would do and it did entertain the younger adults. Many of the staff couldn't figure out why he was admitted as he couldn't have been more appropriate as he lured us in with this behavior. Unfortunately his parents weren't able to give us much history on paper, other than a trouble maker in school. He had pulled sizzores out and threatened the teacher but cried out that the teacher had twisted his arm and he couldn't take school and wanted to kill himself. He became a patient to get out of the consequences he would face of juve. He was discharged only to return with his feelings of persecution once again as he had poison the neighbors dog. Staff wised up to his manipulations until he involved me in one of his manipulations. My co-worker Mr. L a complete gentleman who was assigned to this kid had put him on room confinement for not following the most easiest of rules. The following evenning he approached me with welting eyes and told me MR. L made sexual advances while he was on rounds night shift. My immediate reaction was selfish as I thought why me. I knew this was going to blow the roof off that hospita and personally I was drained. Per dr. orders I had a consultation with pt. and mr. L where this boy didn't break stride, tears and all. His word against staff member. Huge ordeal as this was 1973. Kid discharged to home eventually and Mr. L transferred to ER. So for those who haven't been abused by a family member with this diagnosis or haven't encountered a person like this I'v added to the many stories here and hopefully all our stories told will be read by many visiting this site and we have squeeked the wheel a bit more. These folks will drain you dry and they will have you thinking your the one with the problem. I have to admit they are a scary interesting folks to study.

As always, excellent post, Karen!

I would love to see a day where it is a requirement of not only judges but LE's job training that they have a certain amount of "schooling" on mental health issues. The signs, symptoms and how to handle certain situations with not only Axis II's but Axis I disorders as well.

 

[countzero]

I know with all my preaching about personality disorders some of my earlier comments on this have probably gotten lost but I'll say it again (I can hear the collective groan! LOL).. My mother would cover for me- even if I told her I did it and dropped the body at her feet, blood on my hands. She would do the same type of thing Cindy and George are doing, though she isn't quite as aggressive with outsiders and she is a much better "charmer" than Cindy is.

My bet is Cindy was the one everyone had to walk on eggshells around and had a certain amount of fear of UNTIL Casey grew up and started practicing all her "learned behaviors" and found a few new ones to try out and found suddenly everyone feared HER wrath! Her power and evil grew larger than mommy dearest's. Her own mother taught her just what buttons to press!

I am backing and raising to your bet on CA too. CA certainly didn't plan on anyone gaining more power than she had and used to the extent she did.

If anyone remembers the beltway snipers case, [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beltway_sniper_attacks[/ame] , you know the upbringing of both suspects was brought up in court. Why and how a young child, not even the blood child of an adult could commit 13+ random killings.

What goes around, comes around. Twofold in this case with CA and KC.

As always, excellent post, Karen!

I would love to see a day where it is a requirement of not only judges but LE's job training that they have a certain amount of "schooling" on mental health issues. The signs, symptoms and how to handle certain situations with not only Axis II's but Axis I disorders as well.

When I read Karen's post I had mixed emotions about it. Having LE as close friends and attorneys in the family, I know the pressures they go through on a daily basis dealing with the public. So yes, I would want them to have some training on mental health issues. On the other side of the mix, I have seen my family member(s) with personality disorders be calm and convincing. Then when LE left, all hell-o broke loose. LE was called back again and finally understood the issues and remained until the family member(s) removed themselves from the property. Legally, LE's hands were tied until a physical altercation occurred. Property was removed from the home that wasn't theirs and we were told to file a stolen property report and settle the matter in civil court.

Like you, me and others have stated many times not all sociopaths are physically combative. Many do their damage mentally; with a sugar coated smile. Their damage is done in privacy behind closed doors. The bruises heal, the mind and soul never does without getting intense professional help.

 

[Gma Kat]

LOL- not because I think Cindy is a stand up woman or anything..

I just have little doubt that another thing Casey learned from her mother is "how to throw others under the bus". Love and hate are also part of that "splitting" those with personality disorders do so well. It's like a light switch - you have no clue what will set them off. You can go from being the golden child to the reason their mother died 20 years ago if that's what they get in their head.

"Mothers" like this have no loyalty. None. They will protect what is there's but if THEY feel betrayed by "their's" they will do whatever it takes to make them and then watch them suffer for "turning on" them. I have NO problem believing Cindy could turn on her.. I'm not saying I think this is the case but knowing this kind of woman, this kind of mother, I can't rule it out.

Hi OLG! It's been awhile since I saw you on the boards, knowing a small bit about you I really respect your opinion on this matter. I can totally picture CA turning with whichever way the wind blows so long as it benefits her situation. If throwing KC under the bus after all this time is what will save the A's from future obstruction charges I believe she will do it. Except the defense will be able to show her inconsistencies and impeach her testimony, which is going to be done at the time of trial by one side or the other IMO. Hope this isn't OT, I get sooooooo confused sometimes!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

LOL- not because I think Cindy is a stand up woman or anything..

I just have little doubt that another thing Casey learned from her mother is "how to throw others under the bus". Love and hate are also part of that "splitting" those with personality disorders do so well. It's like a light switch - you have no clue what will set them off. You can go from being the golden child to the reason their mother died 20 years ago if that's what they get in their head.

"Mothers" like this have no loyalty. None. They will protect what is there's but if THEY feel betrayed by "their's" they will do whatever it takes to make them and then watch them suffer for "turning on" them. I have NO problem believing Cindy could turn on her.. I'm not saying I think this is the case but knowing this kind of woman, this kind of mother, I can't rule it out.

Actually, if true, Ryan P. told that CA said to him that KC is a sociopath. Now that seems like an unloving/careless comment from a mother to a friend of her child. I can invision, from a mom who maybe truly concerned, asking questions of her daughter's friends in order to ascertain for herself if certain behaviors were being demonstrated before taking that in to account and going to talk to the professional doctor - not just blurting out that her daughter is a sociopath. At the age Casey was, her friend would probably say to her, "Do you know your mom told me you're a sociopath?" - nice!

I guess I'm lucky in that my mom never betrayed me like that. She could be moody because she suffered confusion and loneliness as a child but she would say "I'm sorry. I felt sad because blah, blah, blah." In other words, she would own her own stuff. She never blamed me but I wish we could of been more confident types. That is why, as a middle age woman, I try to express myself honestly. Everyone has a right to claim their space. It would be easier to take a back seat - everyone else is smarter, better, prettier, more capable, etc. Venting .... venting .... family psych ... we all have our things - ugh!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

As always, excellent post, Karen!

I would love to see a day where it is a requirement of not only judges but LE's job training that they have a certain amount of "schooling" on mental health issues. The signs, symptoms and how to handle certain situations with not only Axis II's but Axis I disorders as well.

Heck - I wish I had had a course on this, with illustrative examples, let's say prior to my 18th birthday. Awareness would help to ward off perps before serious damage - like when I took that hunka hunka burning hell back for a second go around after he was caught in a flatout preplanned lie. Could have saved myself a lot of grief and sorrow. I believed in second chances and never had experience with the plotting types prior to that. Thought everyone was nice - ugh!

 

[OneLostGrl]

bbm:

Living with them is more than exhausting. I had to be one or two steps ahead of them always. Their patterns rarely changed, just their subtle methods did. I always knew what the end result would be. Once I caught a family member rifling through my wallet. Confronted, they replied they were checking to see if my paper money was in order since they knew I always kept them in sequential and face forward order. Yea right. I learned then to keep my bag where I could see it always and in my bedroom at night. Jewelry was also kept under lock and key. Didn't have to worry about the liquor or beer though :crazy:

Rest of your post is spot on my dear :clap:

Oh goodness, the stories it sounds like we could share! LOL

:hug: You are strong!

 

[Brini]

Actually, if true, Ryan P. told that CA said to him that KC is a sociopath. Now that seems like an unloving/careless comment from a mother to a friend of her child. I can invision, from a mom who maybe truly concerned, asking questions of her daughter's friends in order to ascertain for herself if certain behaviors were being demonstrated before taking that in to account and going to talk to the professional doctor - not just blurting out that her daughter is a sociopath. At the age Casey was, her friend would probably say to her, "Do you know your mom told me you're a sociopath?" - nice!

I guess I'm lucky in that my mom never betrayed me like that. She could be moody because she suffered confusion and loneliness as a child but she would say "I'm sorry. I felt sad because blah, blah, blah." In other words, she would own her own stuff. She never blamed me but I wish we could of been more confident types. That is why, as a middle age woman, I try to express myself honestly. Everyone has a right to claim their space. It would be easier to take a back seat - everyone else is smarter, better, prettier, more capable, etc. Venting .... venting .... family psych ... we all have our things - ugh!

I remember reading "Brave New World" when I was a teenager.

In it, people were born from bottles and raised to be happy, by the state. Families did not exist.

I remember thinking, that that sounded GOOD! :-(

 

[OneLostGrl]

Actually, if true, Ryan P. told that CA said to him that KC is a sociopath. Now that seems like an unloving/careless comment from a mother to a friend of her child. I can invision, from a mom who maybe truly concerned, asking questions of her daughter's friends in order to ascertain for herself if certain behaviors were being demonstrated before taking that in to account and going to talk to the professional doctor - not just blurting out that her daughter is a sociopath. At the age Casey was, her friend would probably say to her, "Do you know your mom told me you're a sociopath?" - nice!

I guess I'm lucky in that my mom never betrayed me like that. She could be moody because she suffered confusion and loneliness as a child but she would say "I'm sorry. I felt sad because blah, blah, blah." In other words, she would own her own stuff. She never blamed me but I wish we could of been more confident types. That is why, as a middle age woman, I try to express myself honestly. Everyone has a right to claim their space. It would be easier to take a back seat - everyone else is smarter, better, prettier, more capable, etc. Venting .... venting .... family psych ... we all have our things - ugh!

Heck - I wish I had had a course on this, with illustrative examples, let's say prior to my 18th birthday. Awareness would help to ward off perps before serious damage - like when I took that hunka hunka burning hell back for a second go around after he was caught in a flatout preplanned lie. Could have saved myself a lot of grief and sorrow. I believed in second chances and never had experience with the plotting types prior to that. Thought everyone was nice - ugh!

:hug:

 

[OneLostGrl]

I remember reading "Brave New World" when I was a teenager.

In it, people were born from bottles and raised to be happy, by the state. Families did not exist.

I remember thinking, that that sounded GOOD! :-(

LOL- I think I'd still choose my mom.. sadly I trust our government less.

 

[MissJames]

Hi OLG! It's been awhile since I saw you on the boards, knowing a small bit about you I really respect your opinion on this matter. I can totally picture CA turning with whichever way the wind blows so long as it benefits her situation. If throwing KC under the bus after all this time is what will save the A's from future obstruction charges I believe she will do it. Except the defense will be able to show her inconsistencies and impeach her testimony, which is going to be done at the time of trial by one side or the other IMO. Hope this isn't OT, I get sooooooo confused sometimes!

Hazy memories here,also,but didn't BC say something after the last hearing[autopsy release] about GA and CA just not knowing what to think anymore?
I got the definite impression they were backing away from "KC is innocent".
We really haven't heard much from them since.