Casey's Behavior Toward Parents and Vice-Versa In Court Apperances

[DaughterAlice]

With or without JB's control over the situation, there is the undeniable fact that this is a very broken family. Maybe it never had a very healthy bond to start with, but now it is in shambles.

I think we can speculate until the cows come home over whether it is JB's control, KC's control, or whatever, but I think that even a healthy family bond thrown into this situation would stand a chance of never recovering.

To some wierd degree, I can understand GA & CA craving even a look from her. She may be the devil-incarnate, but she is still their daughter. I can even (to some weird degree) understand her not acknowledging them. There's too much to deal with emotionally.

Having said all that, I do agree that she seems to fit the description of a sociopath, AND JB does seem to be a bit too controlling, AND she does seem to want to control or even punish her parents. I only want to observe, however, that given different personalities than the ones of the A family, the outcome might actually be the same. JMHO, of course.

 

[Muzikman]

I am pretty sure I read that AL said that she thought KC should visit with her parents even though JB had put a stop to that, which AL thought was wrong. I have always thought that JB was behind that change in KC's behavior. In fact, in the August 14 jail visitation tape KC complains that she was able to take the visitation from her parents even though JB had said she shouldn't talk with her parents. But she said that she did it anyway because JB was out of town.

Yes, I believe that KC was irresponsible, a liar, a thief, a manipulator, and ultimately a baby killer. But I do not think that turning her back on her parents was her idea. JB needed that control over KC, and cutting her off from her parents was one way to achieve that, with the big plus of ensuring that KC wouldn't say anything revealing, and CA, GA, and LA could ask no probing questions.

But I also think that JB's plan backfired in that it has painted KC, rightly or wrongly, as completely cold and unfeeling toward her family.

This is my opinion, based on what I have observed and read.

BBM - I agree that Baez is controlling Casey to a certain extent, but...

She painted HERSELF that way. Listen to that first phone call home, before Baez was even really in the picture. And the subsequent visitation videos.

And after personally watching her completely snub her parents at the hearings - unless prodded by one of her attorneys to acknowledge them - My observation/opinion is that she can't look them in the eye, because she KNOWS that they know she's responsible for what happened to Caylee. IMO

 

[songline]

BBM - I agree that Baez is controlling Casey to a certain extent, but...

She painted HERSELF that way. Listen to that first phone call home, before Baez was even really in the picture. And the subsequent visitation videos.

And after personally watching her completely snub her parents at the hearings - unless prodded by one of her attorneys to acknowledge them - My observation/opinion is that she can't look them in the eye, because she KNOWS that they know she's responsible for what happened to Caylee. IMO

That makes the most sense to me....:clap::clap::clap:

 

[DaughterAlice]

BBM - I agree that Baez is controlling Casey to a certain extent, but...

She painted HERSELF that way. Listen to that first phone call home, before Baez was even really in the picture. And the subsequent visitation videos.

And after personally watching her completely snub her parents at the hearings - unless prodded by one of her attorneys to acknowledge them - My observation/opinion is that she can't look them in the eye, because she KNOWS that they know she's responsible for what happened to Caylee. IMO

BBM

Excellant observation Muzikman! :clap:

 

[Spangle]

Oh, I don't think KC gave a hoot about the cremation. I think it was a ploy on her part to make it appear that she really cared.

They now wear her remains on their body. The baby is close to them every day. So they can always 'hold' her and be with her.

I think KC is pissed. Very pissed.

 

[Firefly]

I think that she blames them for "turning her in"......She probably thinks that if Cindy hadn't have called 911 that night, none of this would have ever happened.

Sorry, I haven't read through this thread all the way through. But I have to comment. My first reaction to this statement is......What if Cindy NEVER called the police......never got them involved so fast? What if they tampered with evidence and aligned their stories about a "nanny." I think they would have all been in jail right now. It would have been a different story. The one thing RIGHT that CA did was not to give her daughter "more time" to find her daughter. She DID wash clothes and compromised the car and its contents and CA should be held accountable for it. :behindbar

 

[CuriousTwo]

I think that in KC's eyes the only thing she ever did to please her mother was to have Caylee. So therefore, she triumphantly took Caylee from CA forever to punish her for making KC never feel like she was good enough.

And furthermore, deep down, CA knows this to be true. That is why she is so overcompensating as a mother now.

I agree wholeheartedly. Well said. :bullseye:

 

[CBTampa]

IIRC Casey had set up a visit with her dad while JB was out of town. JB put a stop to that. Then the night she was arrested she was waiting for JB to get there before she made a statement to LE. JB came in went outside to have a discussion with LE. JB never conferred with KC. They came back into the room and there was not to be a interview and they took KC to jail. IMO This has been JB doing this.

 

[seagull65]

I agree too. JB is getting too in the way and too controlling of KC. She should be allowed her letters from her parents if read first by authorities to weed out any bad stuff. I would love to know what JB says to her about her parents.

interesting thought that some of you were posting about what if their letters weren't getting through to her so she thinks they've abandoned or snubbed her and is doing the same back. Granted, I can understand how he might feel he has to insulate his client somewhat and control what messages go in or out, I don't know if he does feel this way or is doing this, but it would be understandable. But I was just remembering early in the case when GA and CA were trying to tell her something, that JB had not passed on some kind of message to her, or from her to them, or to LE or something, what was it? They were asking her if she was aware of this, and kind of criticizing him to her, asking her if he was keeping her aware of all her options or something.

Is it possible that he wouldn't pass on letters to her from her parents, could he even do that? I'm not accusing him of any wrongdoing at all, I like what I've seen of him actually, but I do hope she's able to get input and communications from her family and that she's fully informed. (Which brings my mind back to the question of who is paying him? Is it really all gratis or is he being paid by anyone? I mean, and speaking purely theoretically here, not about JB himself or any of the defense team, but if a mystery person was paying for your defense, it goes without saying that that person could potentially have ulterior motives or have different priorities than yours. For example, they might counsel you to not take a deal and rat out someone else, they might try to keep you out of touch from your parents who might counsel you otherwise, or whatever. I'm not accusing JB or anyone else of doing anything like this,this is a purely theoretical scenario, I think the defense team seem to be representing Casey well and in a completely forthright manner, and from everything I've seen so far, her defense are all volunteering their time, they are not paid. I'm only saying, a person needs to know who's paying for their defense, period. If anyone is paying.)

 

[seagull65]

BBM - I agree that Baez is controlling Casey to a certain extent, but...

She painted HERSELF that way. Listen to that first phone call home, before Baez was even really in the picture. And the subsequent visitation videos.

Also true, I agree.

(edited to add: I will never forget those first phone conversations, and the inexplicable grin on Casey's face in one of the prison visits...it was during a moment when Cindy was breaking down, you could see how absolutely terrified she was for Caylee, but Casey had that very strange smile on her face....I still can't put my finger on exactly this expression of Casey's. At times it looked almost like a smile at the funniest joke she'd ever heard, you know what I mean? A really crazy, giddy, delighted smile. Was it that she was incapable of grasping the seriousness of what was really going on, still in a mental fantasy land, was she mentally unwell and suffering from some kind of inappropriate euphoria or something....or was it that at that time she was such an idiot she actually thought this was all a big joke and some associate of hers had Caylee and she would be returned soon, or was it not knowing what to say to her mother because of having lost Caylee or trusted her with the wrong person or worse, and the thought was just so horrible she was hiding it behind this masklike smile... or hatred toward her mother for getting her arrested...or was it really a sick smile of revenge as some people say? Was she just as terrified as Cindy but just has a very weird, dysfunctional coping style which is to pretend everything is all right and put on this smile? I'm still not sure. It was so weird the way Cindy had to constantly apologize for crying or being upset, George too, or for asking any questions. Weird stuff. And also, there was always some implied blame toward the parents or toward Cindy, in some of Casey's comments like "you're not sure what MY involvement is?" etc. I used to sometimes wonder if that morning when Cindy went to that character breakfast at one of the hotels or wherever it was at Universal where she thought she was supposed to pick Caylee up (or at some other time)....if maybe Casey left Caylee somewhere rather carelessly thinking Cindy was going to pick Caylee up, then proceeded to go off and party, etc, and later assumed Cindy did pick Caylee up, or if for some other reason Casey thought that her family had taken Caylee back somehow, only realizing way too late that her family didn't have Caylee and that she had "goofed up big time" and Caylee was missing and didn't know how to face them with this fact, or whatever...but of course then why the story about the nanny and so on. Maybe if that was the last person she had seen around Caylee before she was missing or if someone had told her that was who had had Caylee....or just completely invented rather than to admit she'd lost Caylee in some careless or neglectful way? Anyway, I do still wonder about her behavior toward her parents and some of the conversation between them like this. And the inappropriate smiling.)

 

[Pondering Mind]

IIRC Casey had set up a visit with her dad while JB was out of town. JB put a stop to that. Then the night she was arrested she was waiting for JB to get there before she made a statement to LE. JB came in went outside to have a discussion with LE. JB never conferred with KC. They came back into the room and there was not to be a interview and they took KC to jail. IMO This has been JB doing this.

But you know, that begs the question of has KC EVER done anything she was told to do if she didn't want to. I don't believe she has and was allowed to get away with it all her life. Bottom line is..She could talk or see her parents if she wanted to, nobody could stop her. IMO she uses JB as an excuse NOT to talk to or see them. Who knows if she did, they might get around to asking her those pesky questions about Caylee. (although no doubt those questions would be about someone else that MUST be responsible. This way she is able to do what she does best...not give 2 chits about anyone but herself. I believe much of what she learned about deflecting and blaming others she learned first hand..from Cindy. JMVHO~

 

[affinity]

My mind returns to the police interview with KC--where she says something like: "if anything has happened (to Caylee) my Mom would never forgive me.....and (sounding like it's an afterthought...oh yeah...) I wouldn't be able to forgive myself"..So there it is right there--she knew that her Mother would be furious if anything bad happened to Caylee (well, doh!*). At the heart of this entire thing is how KC felt jealously and envy for the unconditional love her parents had/have for Caylee. She wasn't given that type of love (in her mind). She doesn't see her parents because she knows they now know the truth and it doesn't fit her nice picture of herself as an innocent person (thanks JB for feeding her all sorts of bizarre stories that she can make into truths for herself!)

*inexplicably, however, CA isn't really having the reaction that KC expected.
MOST people would be upset to learn their child caused their granddaughter's demise...! But CA has turned her murdering daughter into a saint. The extreme pathology in this family begins with CA! We think the worst offender is KC---but KC came into the world a blank slate--she was controlled and manipulated her whole life--by CA! CA is the REAL story behind the story! I feel sorry for everyone who has had to deal with her...(except..I do believe she loved Caylee!...who couldn't love Caylee? The only person on the planet who couldn't was KC.)

 

[TallyHo]

Also true, I agree.

(edited to add: I will never forget those first phone conversations, and the inexplicable grin on Casey's face in one of the prison visits...it was during a moment when Cindy was breaking down, you could see how absolutely terrified she was for Caylee, but Casey had that very strange smile on her face....I still can't put my finger on exactly this expression of Casey's. At times it looked almost like a smile at the funniest joke she'd ever heard, you know what I mean? A really crazy, giddy, delighted smile. Was it that she was incapable of grasping the seriousness of what was really going on, still in a mental fantasy land, was she mentally unwell and suffering from some kind of inappropriate euphoria or something....or was it that at that time she was such an idiot she actually thought this was all a big joke and some associate of hers had Caylee and she would be returned soon, or was it not knowing what to say to her mother because of having lost Caylee or trusted her with the wrong person or worse, and the thought was just so horrible she was hiding it behind this masklike smile... or hatred toward her mother for getting her arrested...or was it really a sick smile of revenge as some people say? Was she just as terrified as Cindy but just has a very weird, dysfunctional coping style which is to pretend everything is all right and put on this smile? I'm still not sure. It was so weird the way Cindy had to constantly apologize for crying or being upset, George too, or for asking any questions. Weird stuff. And also, there was always some implied blame toward the parents or toward Cindy, in some of Casey's comments like "you're not sure what MY involvement is?" etc. I used to sometimes wonder if that morning when Cindy went to that character breakfast at one of the hotels or wherever it was at Universal where she thought she was supposed to pick Caylee up (or at some other time)....if maybe Casey left Caylee somewhere rather carelessly thinking Cindy was going to pick Caylee up, then proceeded to go off and party, etc, and later assumed Cindy did pick Caylee up, or if for some other reason Casey thought that her family had taken Caylee back somehow, only realizing way too late that her family didn't have Caylee and that she had "goofed up big time" and Caylee was missing and didn't know how to face them with this fact, or whatever...but of course then why the story about the nanny and so on. Maybe if that was the last person she had seen around Caylee before she was missing or if someone had told her that was who had had Caylee....or just completely invented rather than to admit she'd lost Caylee in some careless or neglectful way? Anyway, I do still wonder about her behavior toward her parents and some of the conversation between them like this. And the inappropriate smiling.)

Seagull, I remember watching those jailhouse conversations with her parents and Lee and being completely awestruck by her happy demeanor. At the time I felt she was trying so hard to get them to believe that nothing was wrong, she hadn't done anything, and trying to get them to be "on her side" so to speak that she seemed almost giddy at times. Remember the big "HI" and smile to Lee and the "why is she crying?" to her dad? But it seems to truly be a case of iappropriate affect, and in light of the further interviews we have recently heard, it seems more and more like she has some serious mental defect. My heart just breaks for Caylee!

 

[Spangle]

Seagull, I remember watching those jailhouse conversations with her parents and Lee and being completely awestruck by her happy demeanor. At the time I felt she was trying so hard to get them to believe that nothing was wrong, she hadn't done anything, and trying to get them to be "on her side" so to speak that she seemed almost giddy at times. Remember the big "HI" and smile to Lee and the "why is she crying?" to her dad? But it seems to truly be a case of iappropriate affect, and in light of the further interviews we have recently heard, it seems more and more like she has some serious mental defect. My heart just breaks for Caylee!

Cindy should be really paying attention to what your saying. Cindy is totally beside herself to 'help' her daughter. The reality is, that KC would be just as cold about Cindy's death as she is about KC's.

 

[sharpar]

That arrogant smirk is pure sadistic enjoyment of seeing Cindys pain .
A clear indication that she is a cold cruel monster more than capable
of muder.

 

[EclecticArtist]

I think KC truly hates her parents.

The other night on NG it showed KC, over and OVER wiping her eyes with her specifically PLACED fingers white GA was testifying in court.... I mean, it was shown over and over.. I not only to go see what I thought I saw at the time, I got to see it a few more times just to make sure I didn't think i was seeing things..

BTW, I saw no tears...I guess she got the idea from when GA was giving the depo and accused the attorney of giving him the finger when he pushed up his glasses..

 

[Just Jayla]

None of this was supposed to have anything to do with CA/GA, in KC's mind. She was not thinking about her mother or father when she did the things she did, she was thinking about herself. The fact that her parents have been inserted into this situation is an annoyance to KC.
I think KC takes solace in some respects, like when she was bored in jail and glad to get out of her cell for a visit with her parents, but she really did not want them this deeply involved in her life.
Once trial comes around and KC realizes how many people are so very deeply entrenched in this now, she is going to start getting very angry about the situation, JMO.

 

[Amil]

None of this was supposed to have anything to do with CA/GA, in KC's mind. She was not thinking about her mother or father when she did the things she did, she was thinking about herself. The fact that her parents have been inserted into this situation is an annoyance to KC.
I think KC takes solace in some respects, like when she was bored in jail and glad to get out of her cell for a visit with her parents, but she really did not want them this deeply involved in her life.
Once trial comes around and KC realizes how many people are so very deeply entrenched in this now, she is going to start getting very angry about the situation, JMO.

You are so right about this. She won't be able to control her temper when she perceives criticism from the witness stand over and over. I remember Ted Bundy controlling his emotions up to a point and then acting like a 3 year old in the wink of an eye. If you are used to having your lies believed, then end up in court, you can expect this to happen.

 

[OneLostGrl]

My mind returns to the police interview with KC--where she says something like: "if anything has happened (to Caylee) my Mom would never forgive me.....and (sounding like it's an afterthought...oh yeah...) I wouldn't be able to forgive myself"..So there it is right there--she knew that her Mother would be furious if anything bad happened to Caylee (well, doh!*). At the heart of this entire thing is how KC felt jealously and envy for the unconditional love her parents had/have for Caylee. She wasn't given that type of love (in her mind). She doesn't see her parents because she knows they now know the truth and it doesn't fit her nice picture of herself as an innocent person (thanks JB for feeding her all sorts of bizarre stories that she can make into truths for herself!)

*inexplicably, however, CA isn't really having the reaction that KC expected.
MOST people would be upset to learn their child caused their granddaughter's demise...! But CA has turned her murdering daughter into a saint. The extreme pathology in this family begins with CA! We think the worst offender is KC---but KC came into the world a blank slate--she was controlled and manipulated her whole life--by CA! CA is the REAL story behind the story! I feel sorry for everyone who has had to deal with her...(except..I do believe she loved Caylee!...who couldn't love Caylee? The only person on the planet who couldn't was KC.)

Bold is mine-

Amen!

 

[OneLostGrl]

Cindy should be really paying attention to what your saying. Cindy is totally beside herself to 'help' her daughter. The reality is, that KC would be just as cold about Cindy's death as she is about KC's.

Cindy should have thought about "helping" her daughter years ago! It's a tad bit too late now, Cindy. :banghead: