Casey's Body Language and Reactionary Comments#3

[Bobbisangel]

After he finished speaking she crossed her arms and looked angry and defiant to me.

It's a little odd that she only "cries" when she hears something she doesn't
want to hear.
As soon as he stopped speaking she stopped crying.
If you are dealing with the tragedy of a child's death, once you get started crying it
goes on for quite a while.

I also know that when I cry I have to blow my nose quite a few times.
The harder I cry, the more I blow.
I have never seen her blow her nose when she "cries", therefore I can't really believe
it's genuine.

I think Casey cries when she thinks she should or when her attorneys give her the cue to cry. We know she crys when she is really really mad because we've seen that when she was so angry at her parents at the jail. Otherwise I think she just crys when she thinks she should for the cameras or when the attorneys whisper in her ear or maybe before court they told her that she needs to show some grief and here is when to do it.

I also have to blow my nose a lot when I cry and no one could mistake if I'm crying or not. I can see her hiding her face if she was really crying because it is embarressing to cry in public and especially when a camera is on you but she has no tears or snot! Casey is so involved with Casey and cares only about Casey that I can't see her ever crying for Caylee. I think that is how she can cope just fine not seeing her parents. She isn't that involved with them now. She doesn't need them anymore is the way I see it.

 

[Pondering Mind]

Thank you, Wenwe and JBean. I see the discussion of whether it might be KC remembering Caylee grabbing her wrist in her last moments, but don't see discussion of KC being bound at the wrist.

I thought perhaps there was a reference to an incidence of KC being restrained or bound that I'm unaware of.

KC grabbing her wrist at the hearing really struck me and I'm trying to find everything 'wrist-related' lol. Oh the things we search for in this case!!! lol

ETA: Does anyone know of any incidents in which KC was restrained by her wrists?

BeanE, I was thinking the SAME thing, lol! Reading Seagull's post it sounded like he/she meant there was a discussion re: KC's wrist being bound and I was beginning to think a whole bunch of posts got deleted before I had a chance to read that whole thread. Glad to know that it wasn't just me :waitasec:...

re: eta~ nope, never read anything of the sort and to my knowledge nothing like that has ever been alleged by anyone including KC.
of course, we'll never know what went on behind closed doors involving her 'paramours' ..ewww.. but it doesn't appear that was ever forced on her, maybe the other way around tho..j/k..kinda..


Well Hello Dolly! :blowkiss:

 

[justthinkin]

The website listed above is pretty complex and breaks down the body language techniques into anatomical regions, ie; arms, legs, hands, face, etc...You may have to do some reading to find one that corresponds with our "subject".

mayThere is much more that others will pick up on, but the first thing that struck me, in regards to Casey's body positioning, in the hearing was this. It was taken from the above website.

BBM.

Attack signals

"When somebody is about to attack, they give visual signal such as clenching of fists ready to strike and lowering and spreading of the body for stability. They are also likely to give anger signs such as redness of the face."

http://changingminds.org/techniques/body/aggressive_body.htm

Obviously the clenching of the fists, exhibited by Casey, grabbed my attention.
I am sure there are others that I missed, like the holding of one arm with her fist. I am certain this must mean something, but I had a hard time finding it. Maybe some WS'ers will figure it out along the way.

I have not seen anyone answer your question so I will try.

Casey was furious with Ashton. When she grabbed her left wrist with her right hand, I feel sure this was a personal expression by her of "I'd like to strangle you with my bare hands," you meaning Ashton. Go back and watch the video, it's clear as anything can be. JMO. She has a murderous look in her eye at the point where she grabs her wrist, and she is staring into Ashton's back as if she could burn a hole in him. Casey's fury builds until she suddenly grabs her wrist.This I have no doubt is the Casey that Caylee saw just before she died. http://www.wesh.com/video/21931324/index.html

Interesting too is that Casey's reaction to Ashton is so lightning quick, it brings up the possibility that this is how Caylee really died. She was strangled. There in the courtroom, Friday, Casey's telling us with her body language that she has a preference for strangling her victims. I'm not implying that Caylee was quickly strangled because Casey had the time to carry out Caylee's death exactly as she wanted. Casey may have restrained her hands, then put duct tape over her mouth and nose deliberately so Caylee would understand what was happening, as much as someone that young and that small could, and then Casey strangled her, unleashing all of her hatred on poor little Caylee. Casey would've wanted to see the terror on little Caylee's face. Casey is a monster, and indeed deserves the death penalty. The SA is on to strangling as the manor of death.

Why strangling? Didn't Lee tell Jesse that Cindy grabbed Casey by the throat during her and Casey's argument? Sleuthers, I think this IS the answer to how Caylee died. It fits so well, so easily. All the theories we've had....I thought pool, some thought trunk and so on, but this fits, and needs no explanation because one mother in this family has already allegedly grabbed her daughter and set the stage for her own daughter to do the same but with one huge difference. If Cindy grabbed Casey, it was only a symbolic strangling.

 

[scorpion1110]

I see the hair smoothing self-soothing esteem sensitivity. She always has had to look good as she is an extension of her parents. It is the expectation in this family, that shes needs to perform to be recognized. Since she couldn't/wouldn't actually perform, she created the illusion of performance or accomplishments (like dressing in work attire every day when she left the house). The skin/clothing picking could actually be another form of self soothing. A very primative part of the brain responds to the hair stroking, and preening are much like apes do with each other when they pick off the lice from their mate's fur. It is in the nurturing part of relationship when we can help each other stroking, holding, and reassuring. KC is in a very lonely place right now and has no one she can be in relationship with - therefore, she is self-soothing and protecting. I still believe the wrist grab was in reaction to JA's saying how Caylee was restrained.

maybe.........it could be just as simple as that................she could be just picking at lice or crabs that she has picked up in the jail she probably just needs a quick trip to the jail infirmary for a de-lousing

 

[Searchfortruth]

I have not seen anyone answer your question so I will try.

Casey was furious with Ashton. When she grabbed her left wrist with her right hand, I feel sure this was a personal expression by her of "I'd like to strangle you with my bare hands," you meaning Ashton. Go back and watch the video, it's clear as anything can be.. She has a murderous look in her eye at the point where she grabs her wrist, and she is staring into Ashton's back as if she could burn a hole in him. Casey's fury builds until she suddenly grabs her wrist.This I have no doubt is the Casey that Caylee saw just before she died. http://www.wesh.com/video/21931324/index.html

Interesting too is that Casey's reaction to Ashton is so lightning quick, it brings up the possibility that this is how Caylee really died. She was strangled. There in the courtroom, Friday, Casey's telling us with her body language that she has a preference for strangling her victims. I'm not implying that Caylee was quickly strangled because Casey had the time to carry out Caylee's death exactly as she wanted. Casey may have restrained her hands, then put duct tape over her mouth and nose deliberately so Caylee would understand what was happening, as much as someone that young and that small could, and then Casey strangled her, unleashing all of her hatred on poor little Caylee. Casey would've wanted to see the terror on little Caylee's face. Casey is a monster, and indeed deserves the death penalty. The SA is on to strangling as the manor of death.

Why strangling? Didn't Lee tell Jesse that Cindy grabbed Casey by the throat during her and Casey's argument? Sleuthers, I think this IS the answer to how Caylee died. It fits so well, so easily. All the theories we've had....I thought pool, some thought trunk and so on, but this fits, and needs no explanation because one mother in this family has already allegedly grabbed her daughter and set the stage for her own daughter to do the same but with one huge difference. If Cindy grabbed Casey, it was only a symbolic strangling.

Thank you just thinkin for the wonderful post !

This makes a lot of sense to me, especially given the report of the "strangling" within the family (Cindy/Casey). I think of all the possible responses, that most people would exhibit when JH was laying out the details of the crime, and I can't come up with one like what we saw in Casey (hand grabbing arm in that manner).

This was the most exteme reaction we have seen in Casey yet, and it is interesting that it came as a response to Ashton's specific recount of Caylee's death.

If Cindy did put her hands around Casey's neck on the 15th of June, it's not that far of a stretch to imagine that Casey may have done the same to Caylee soon after.

 

[tripleC]

Sorry if this has already been answered

http://www.wesh.com/video/21931324/index.html

I listened to this clip turning my computer volume on high and the clip's volume on high. The first time that KC says "make him stop" is at about the .10 mark and is very audible although the camera is not on her.

Then, at the .55 mark and the 1.42 mark, it seems that KC says Make him Stop twice more to AL. This is when KC had her hand over her face, but with the volume up that high I thought I could make out the words each time.

But someone else on another thread thought the second and third remarks from KC were Oy my god and please.

Can anyone make out what KC said to AL at the .55 and 1.42 points on this clip and what AL says back to KC at the 1.42mark?

Thanks

I believe AL says "I know" then "it has to be done".

 

[CarrieSis]

I noticed that she had no reaction - no hitch of the shoulders in a sob, real or faked; no twitch, no shudder, nothing - to the statement of Caylee's last look being of her mother. Yet right afterwards she has all of these reactions including a flinch when the death penalty is mentioned again.

In conjunction with the negative reactions towards the tape being described as cutting off Caylee's breathing etc, I still think these imply that this scenario isn't the correct one for how Caylee died. (But I also know we may never know exactly what happened).

 

[BeanE]

maybe.........it could be just as simple as that................she could be just picking at lice or crabs that she has picked up in the jail she probably just needs a quick trip to the jail infirmary for a de-lousing

Oh my God now I'm itching all over! lol

 

[kpalma715]

I could be wrong but does anyone also hear Casey say "That's not true", when she has her face covered?

 

[BeanE]

I noticed the same thing. She couldn't leave her hair alone. Maybe it was just a nervous tic kind of thing. At any rate, it was annoying and very distracting.

It's very distracting. And that may be the point of doing it, whether consciously or not. Watching the jail videos, listening to the jail phone calls, listening to the LE interviews, KC struck me as the Queen of Distraction.

MOO

 

[BeanE]

I could be wrong but does anyone also hear Casey say "That's not true", when she has her face covered?

The only thing I've been able to hear is "make him stop" and the "I can't" response. It's driving me crazy. I want to know what everybody's saying! lol

 

[Darla]

I wonder what was going through AL mind while listening to JA and holding KC's arm. Was she worried KC was going to have an outburst (like the jail video) so she grabbed her arm quickly and held on to it? For a fleeting moment there, did she "feel" the guilt of her client? Was she thinking - Dang, this guy is good!- now what do I say?

I've watched that video at least half dozen times and finding myself paying more attention to AL and wondering what was going through her mind.

JMO

 

[logicalgirl]

Yes, I was too - and to me she didn't look like she was comforting Casey at all but more implying "If you have an outburst or a temper tantrum I will break your arm on the spot. Just be quiet!"

 

[cecybeans]

I wonder what was going through AL mind while listening to JA and holding KC's arm. Was she worried KC was going to have an outburst (like the jail video) so she grabbed her arm quickly and held on to it? For a fleeting moment there, did she "feel" the guilt of her client? Was she thinking - Dang, this guy is good!- now what do I say?

I've watched that video at least half dozen times and finding myself paying more attention to AL and wondering what was going through her mind.

JMO

Mamabear said to me that AL has the same look on her face she did in church when she had to grab one of her kids hands and hold it so they would be quiet.

 

[TallyHo]

I just watched the tape of Ashton's argument/Casey's reactions again, and if you look at it closely, what makes her mad is when the use of chemical restraint is mentioned. She looks at Jose like she is furious, but then grabs her wrist, cries, and says "make it stop" when he is describing her being physically restrained and then the rest about Caylee being able to see her killer, etc.JMO, but I think part 2 was too close for comfort to her and was causing her to relieve what she has been trying to push out of her mind. I am guessing that she really did not use chloroform, is pissed that she keeps getting accused of it, and might think that she can get away with what she really did because we have all been wrong about the chloroform issue. Just a thought.

 

[tankgirl]

I could be wrong but does anyone also hear Casey say "That's not true", when she has her face covered?

She definitely said something right after Ashton started in about "mother's face." I haven't been able to make it out.

 

[LambChop]

Interesting observation caught on the video. KC was hiding her face when confronted by JA. When CA was leaving the courtroom and out by the elevators, she was also hiding her face.

 

[kpalma715]

She definitely said something right after Ashton started in about "mother's face." I haven't been able to make it out.

Like around 25:33 mark, it almost sounds like she says "That's not true" or "It's not true".

 

[justthinkin]

I wonder what was going through AL mind while listening to JA and holding KC's arm. Was she worried KC was going to have an outburst (like the jail video) so she grabbed her arm quickly and held on to it? For a fleeting moment there, did she "feel" the guilt of her client? Was she thinking - Dang, this guy is good!- now what do I say?

I've watched that video at least half dozen times and finding myself paying more attention to AL and wondering what was going through her mind.

JMO

Darla, I saw the same thing you did. It seemed to me that when Ashton was describing Caylee's possible last moments, that AL was indeed overcome with sympathy for Caylee. The horror of Caylee's death registered with her as perhaps it never had before.

 

[Pondering Mind]

Yes, I was too - and to me she didn't look like she was comforting Casey at all but more implying "If you have an outburst or a temper tantrum I will break your arm on the spot. Just be quiet!"

That's what I saw too logicalgirl! I'll bet AL was saying a silent little prayer that KC would keep her trap shut and that JA would be finished SOON!
KC was pizzed and I swear I was waiting for her to jump up any second and scream "That's not how it happened!!" To be honest, that would be a wonderful thing...or maybe not, cause I have no idea how that would affect the trial, or even if it would. Wonder what would happen should KC decide to tell the truth now?.. not that I believe that will EVER happen, but she has to know now that she is in for the long haul and the worst is by far yet to come..I honestly don't know if she will be able to control herself, Cindy neither...it will be quite a study in human behavior for many years to come...

It's my feeling that as most have said she is finally being confronted head on with the circumstances surrounding Caylee's death and she has no where to run, no where to hide and no one to make excuses for her besides JB and the A's of course (per usual) but they sadly have all made laughing stocks of themselves and nobody believes a word they say. I wonder if they realize that by now? I don't say that to be mean I just believe that to be the absolute truth...

It's also my feeling that JA may not be exactly on target (or at least the version he gave in court at this time) regarding the details of Caylee's murder and the control freak in KC can't hardly listen without wanting to correct him or tell him one of her 'half-truths' about why his scenario isn't possible, lol. THAT'S what I think upset her so much, not hearing about Caylee...all jmho tho..