Caylee Anthony Drowned In Family Pool Theory

[affinity]

I don't think it was to get an explanation for the pool ladder being up...I think it was because Cindy saw/found something that made her think Caylee was DEAD and she wanted to hear her voice RIGHT THEN.

I read this theory somewhere else--and it is logical (that something was located in the back yard to ramp up CA's concern). What kinds of things would do that? A large amound of upchuck? blood? a tooth? (so sorry to be so graphic)--but when I read it I wondered what the sluether thought. Personally, since CA is quite a lot like my own Mother--I can see simply the passage of time as being the "ramp up" factor. When my Mother wanted something--anything--she was like CA--like an armadillo that bites and does not let go until the answer is given. No need for any particular event..except her own mind thinking "WHY can't I talk to Caylee!??"

 

[Jolynna]

I can't find a transcript of Mark Fuhrman's OTR interview on 8-6-08 which talked about the calls and pool ladder. WS did have a thread about it:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68894&highlight=FURHMAN

1st post of the thread from Patty G:

Just got finish briefly watching OTR show 8/6/08 with Mark Furhman

6/15/2008 - Cindy and Casey take a swim in the pool, come out, take the ladder away.
My question: Where was Caylee when Cindy and Casey went in the pool? Was George home and watching Caylee, was Caylee in the house sleeping?

6/16/2008 - Casey and Caylee in the house. Cindy already at work.
My question: What time does Cindy start work?

6/16/08 - George sees Casey and Caylee at 12:50 PM with backpacks on their way out the door.
My question: Did George see Caylee have lunch, breakfast, use potty, bath, playing etc.? A child may get up at 7:00 AM to almost 1:00 PM that 6 hours of unaccountable time in that household. Is there a bathroom in Casey's room?

6/16/08 - George leaves for work at 2:30 PM

6/16/08 - starting at 3:00 PM and ending at 4:00 PM there are numerous phone calls from Casey to her father, mother and friends. Quick phone calls although cellphone records would show a minute because you are charged a minute even if the call is 2 seconds.

My question: How far is it from the Anthony household to George's employment? Did George really have a job at that time? (Cindy said at the bond hearing George just started a new job on July 15th.) Why didn't George have his cellphone on? Could it be because of "pings" re" his whereabouts?

Thinking out loud: All these phone calls are within 2 hours after Casey left her parents house with Caylee. I find it very odd, that Cindy and George didn't answer Casey's calls within that hour. I know they both maybe at work, but most folks working leave their cell phones on "perhaps" on vibrator mode" so they know when they get a phone call. George is suppose to be en-route to his house and Casey starts calling Cindy/George etc. at 3:00 PM.

6/16/08 - starting at 6:00 PM to 7:30 PM Casey starts calling Cindy, George and others and no connection. Just minutes phone calls which could be just a few second phone calls.

6/16/08 - No more phone calls were made after 7:30 PM.

6/17/08 - Anthony's "allegedly" notice that the ladder was back in the pool and the gate to the pool was open.
Repectfully snipped...

WFTV article from September 8 [/quote]

THEORY SUGGESTS CAYLEE ANTHONY MAY HAVE DROWNED IN FAMILY POOL
http://www.wftv.com/news/17136493/detail.html

From WFTV shortly after drowning article ran:

CINDY RESPONDS TO DROWNING THEORY
http://www.wftv.com/video/17137073/index.html

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Don't believe this is possible as CA & GA idolized Caylee, and I don't believe either so ignorant as to try to cover up an accident. Further, KC IMO, would likely have seized on the opportunity to make who ever was watching Caylee feel the guilt into perpetuity.

BBM - It seems to me that I've been watching the A's cover something up all along. Ignorant may not be the right word but they have not been honest; about what, I don't know.

Sorry USARDOG, I didn't read ahead before I responded AGAIN. I hadn't realized I already replied.

 

[Jolynna]

Cindy's calls on the 25th after getting home and (perhaps?) finding the pool ladder up and the gate open:

Brittany S. (6:04 pm, 2 min.)
JP C**** (6:13 pm, 1 min. or less)
Casey (6:29 pm left message, followed by 6:36 pm 16-min. conversation in which Casey presumably denies (a) being in Orlando, (b) leaving the pool ladder up).

So Cindy decides it was George and waits for him to call so she can b**** at him about it.

As I have detailed in the "Cindy's Attempts to Contact Zanny" thread, IMO Cindy had Brittany's number in her address book as the number for "Juliet L," and she had JP's number in her address book as the number for "Juliet's mom." This is important because, on June 25, Cindy thought that Juliet was watching Caylee in a Tampa hotel room while Casey was at the hospital with Zanny.

If this was Pool Ladder Day, IMO there was something VERY WRONG in the back yard or house BESIDES an open gate and the pool ladder being up, because Cindy's immediate reaction was not to call George or Casey but to try to call CAYLEE--or at least the person who was supposedly watching Caylee. Under what circumstances would you be desperate to get a 2-year-old girl on the phone? I don't think it was to get an explanation for the pool ladder being up...I think it was because Cindy saw/found something that made her think Caylee was DEAD and she wanted to hear her voice RIGHT THEN.

There are no pings for Casey near the Anthonys' that day, but there are some "gaps" in the pings, in which she might have stopped by the house. The only really "safe" time for her to go that day (half an hour "buffers" between George leaving and Cindy arriving) would have been 3:30-5:00 pm. From the ping gaps, she could possibly have been there around 3:30-4:00.

I can see why Cindy would be upset if her pool ladder was moved on June 25. The day before when Casey was supposed to be in Tampa with Zanny, George and Casey had had the gas can incident. Supposedly Casey was only in town picking up insurance papers. She DIDN'T have Caylee with her. Casey picked up some clothes for herself but didn't get clothes or anything for Caylee. Then on June 25, if the pool ladder was moved, somebody had again been at the Anthony house. WTH...Casey broke the lock to the shed on June 23rd, she was back in the house on June 24 throwing gas cans at George and NOW she is sneaking back into the house again? Did Zani really have all those clothes for Caylee?

Thils was the longest Cindy had ever been away from Caylee. She had to be missing her like crazy and Casey wasn't letting her talk to Caylee. What better way was there to check up on what was going on with Casey than to go behind Casey's back and call the babysitter and ALSO TALK to Caylee? So what if Casey didn't want Cindy talking to Caylee.

When the number didn't work out, I think Cindy thought it was because of Casey's sneakiness and the rivalry between them. Cindy may have thought Casey was holed up with some man, she'd been texting and cooing lovey-dovey talk (according to Tony) into her cell phone. That would have been a big clue to a man in the bushes somewhere. Cindy could have thought this was their same old fighting with the new twist of Casey actually having found a safe-from-her-haven. After trying unsuccessfully to call the babysitter when Casey promised to come home the next day, Cindy most likely hoped it would happen and forced herself to be nice. She wouldn't have wanted to do anything to make Casey go out-of-touch while Casey had Caylee and was obviously being sheltered by somebody. Especially since Casey was promising the ordeal was almost over.

The next week, after Casey had stood Cindy up over and over and not come home with Caylee, Cindy again lost it.

 

[Baznme]

Just my take on things but, I think the timeline as to when whatever happened has been finely narrowed down by a lot of sharp websleuthers here. The when doesn't concern me so much anymore as much as to what actually happened. I do believe she drowned in the pool but I don't think it was any accident. I think she put her in the pool AFTER the chloroform was administered in whatever fashion she was accustomed. One of the last photos, if not the very last photo of Caylee taken sitting in her carseat in the back of the car with the little baseball cap on and her little doll with her haunts me over and over. She had that look on her face as is she was associating that carseat with an unwelcome anticipated experience that was going to occur although she could not describe it being so little. My guess is the chloroform. I've seen several pic's of Caylee with dark circles under her eyes. I wonder if that could be a tell-tale sign of what frequent use of the chemical would do to a person. To make a long story shorter, I feel she was given the chloroform and then put into the pool. I thought for so long this was just an accident and KC was just too afraid to admit she was negligent as a mother but now after all this time and her seeming lack of remorse, I lean very much toward a deliberate, easy means of eliminating the millstone around her neck, which was Caylee. Poor child was so precious and she had so many others that already loved her so. When I see KC now in the courtroom, I feel total disgust. Someone taught her a long time ago that she was entitled to do whatever she wanted to do without consequence for her actions or a sense of responsibility to anyone else. Not even the child she brought into this world. She used this child at every opportunity to gain the attention of others and would have done Caylee a great service had she signed custody over to CA and GA early on and skipped on out of town. She could have taken several other avenues other than the one she chose. She was encouraged to do so in the beginning of this case by the investigators to admit if it was an accident. After the case ended up breaking wide open she is still he$$ bent on running everyone around trying to find the ficticious zanny. Pathological liars tend to believe their own lies because they've never had to nor ever wanted to face the realities this world dishes out. It's amazing to witness all the energy and intellect they put into their stories, it makes you think "if they would only put that much into a productive life", how fine it could be yet, it looks like she's going to run the course of "her truth" right up to the last day at trial when a verdict may be read that could very well end her life. How ironic is that?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEbEbmG9DRs&feature=related[/ame]

Mark Furhman talking to Greta on August 6, 2008 while LE was searching the Anthony home using blacklights and other methods.

At 6:09 Greta asks MF about the ladder.

He states the ladder was noticed up by the pool Tuesday morning.
The gate was open Tuesday morning.
Nobody swam since Sunday, the 15th.
CA put the ladder up Sunday, the 15.
MF says all three - CA, KC and Caylee swam Sunday which differs from what I remember CA saying. She said KC didn't swim as it was too cold so she sat at the table.

MH's version differs from what I first heard CA claim - she noticed the ladder up on a day when she returned home from work not in the morning. We can check this when we find the interviews.

 

[strawberry]

Can someone explain "the gate" to me? I never knew what that meant? A gate in a fence dividing the back yard from the front yard or a fence around the pool (which I don't recall seeing).

 

[BondJamesBond]

There is a gate in the fence beside the garage. It can be seen in pics & vids of LEO's taking K9s into the backyard 7/17. Also see the Anthony floor plans thread graphic. HTH.

 

[Skully]

There is a gate in the fence beside the garage. It can be seen in pics & vids of LEO's taking K9s into the backyard 7/17. Also see the Anthony floor plans thread graphic. HTH.

Thanks BJB for your logical thinking once again on this subject. I don't always know how to show why I believe some of the things I do :angel: I also have to wonder if Caylee was in the car, left unattended, her body could have been very hot and KC could have panicked and thought if she put her in the pool it would cool her down or bring her back. Just throwing stuff out. People don't react the way we think they should and KC has reacted so crazy this whole time, I am just trying to see if it is possible, this is what happened.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Editorial note: For folks that might just be popping into this thread, please note that the current focus is on sleuthing out the true ladder date and what THAT might tell us, if anything, about what really happened.

IOW, we have a lot of info from different souces provided at different times, and cetrainly with different motivations. I'm still catching up, but, AZ and SotS are on the path of connecting the ladder story to something objective (I.e. Phone records). Pls read back to those posts.

IOW...we're not trying to gen a buncha new posts saying that the drowning/accident is BS. OK?

Where this post falls is totally random.

Sleuth on!

BTW: Do we have George's timecards for late June handy to match up w/ AZ's dates & times for phone calls?

ETA: I updated the thread title to help focus on the ladder.

 

[sleutherontheside]

Just for reference point in the June 25-30 range.........June 24th is the date that Jesse Grund originally said he heard Caylee on the phone.

 

[treeseeker]

I might be misremembering, but didn't one of Cindy's co-workers mention the pool ladder story (that Cindy told her and/or was concerned about it) during her interview? I did a search, but don't recall her name.

 

[sleutherontheside]

Valhalls timeline shows June 17th as the day the pool ladder was discovered and the storage box moved over near the pool.

GA in his LE interview originally stated this happened AFTER the gas can incident on the 24th......but later he and CA state it was 6-17.

 

[USARDOG]

BBM - It seems to me that I've been watching the A's cover something up all along. Ignorant may not be the right word but they have not been honest; about what, I don't know.

Sorry USARDOG, I didn't read ahead before I responded AGAIN. I hadn't realized I already replied.

I agree with you 100% however, I don't think they are implicated in the death, rather, not telling what they knew to the police about the ladder, KC behavior, the smell in the car, and last but not certainly not least, getting behind KC's ridiculous, "Zanny the nanny did it," story. CA had me standing in traffic, in the hot Dallas sun passing out kidnapped Caylee posters and all the while I strongly believe she knew, or at lease strongly suspected Caylee hadn't been kidnapped at all.

 

[sleutherontheside]

Believes it was a few days before the gas can incident........My question is......GA in his interview on 7/24/08 states the pool incident was after the gas can incident. Was he trying to cover at that point??? http://www.momlogic.com/blog_content/casey_caylee_documents/witnessreport_casey.pdf

 

[BondJamesBond]

Thread title updated to help focus on the ladder now that the power has been vested in me to do so.

I deleted a few posts that made the recommendation or alluded to the need to do it.

Feel free to bump this post if we wander back onto the "Taste great! Less filling!" beaten path.

Some excellent sleuthin' goin' on! :thumb: Warms my heart.

Now...how 'bout that pesky ladder? Carry on!

 

[sleutherontheside]

Debbie Bennett Interview with LE....Pool Discussion on page 13. States that a few days before the gas can incident that CA told her that she came home and let the dogs out and was worried they would get out.
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/18974353/detail.html

 

[Woe.be.gone]

In the beginning of the case I began taking some notes because CA's TV interviews intrigued me. I didn't know about WS yet but found it by googling in August 2008. I signed in the last day of 2008. Here are my initial notes based on my first impressions as a TV viewer not a sleuther.

1. "I don't want to loose my husband." said to media by CA. (Had me :waitasec:.)

2. GA and KC knew what happened on June 16. (my opinion back then.)

3. CA was filled in later. She is protecting GA, not KC necessarily.

4. All three of them are lying and have been since July 18 (CA maybe later).
GA knew all along that Caylee was gone.

The above notes were my IMPRESSIONS as I was drawn in by the story.

On the back of the page where I wrote the notes above, I found the following paragraphs that I wrote after I joined WS and was blogging. They are:

"I remember an early report on T.V. wherein Cindy claimed she and Caylee swam in the pool the evering of June 15. She explained how they always moved the ladder away from the pool after a swim. She mentioned Casey did not swim (didn't feel like it and sat at the kitchen table).

Also I recall a report that the ladder was found up against the pool and gate open on the 17th of June when George and Cindy RETURNED HOME FROM WORK THAT EVENING."

Had I known better back then, I would have jotted down the sources - what T.V. interview? News clip? etc.
Also I believe the report about the ladder being up on the 17th was told to LE via a phone call CA initiated to them specifically to advise them that she remembers this incident.

Does anybody have the links that substantiate the above? There is a large enough time gap between June 17 and June 25 to cause one to wonder why. Also the date CA called LE to report her recall is significant. Anything discussed beyond that would be to clarify or update the earliest report I would think.

So far Mark F. reports that the pool ladder being up was noticed on June 17th in the morning. It's not clear who MF gathered that info from (obviously CA or GA but he didn't say who told him that during his report on Gretta).

I know I heard CA report that they ladder and gate incidence was noticed on June 17th in the evening.

The above is the first descrepancy I'm sure of. I can't find where GA is claiming the later ladder/gates dates.

 

[Skully]

In the beginning of the case I began taking some notes because CA's TV interviews intrigued me. I didn't know about WS yet but found it by googling in August 2008. I signed in the last day of 2008. Here are my initial notes based on my first impressions as a TV viewer not a sleuther.

1. "I don't want to loose my husband." said to media by CA. (Had me :waitasec:.)

2. GA and KC knew what happened on June 16. (my opinion back then.)

3. CA was filled in later. She is protecting GA, not KC necessarily.

4. All three of them are lying and have been since July 18 (CA maybe later).
GA knew all along that Caylee was gone.

The above notes were my IMPRESSIONS as I was drawn in by the story.

On the back of the page where I wrote the notes above, I found the following paragraphs that I wrote after I joined WS and was blogging. They are:

"I remember an early report on T.V. wherein Cindy claimed she and Caylee swam in the pool the evering of June 15. She explained how they always moved the ladder away from the pool after a swim. She mentioned Casey did not swim (didn't feel like it and sat at the kitchen table).

Also I recall a report that the ladder was found up against the pool and gate open on the 17th of June when George and Cindy RETURNED HOME FROM WORK THAT EVENING."

Had I known better back then, I would have jotted down the sources - what T.V. interview? News clip? etc.
Also I believe the report about the ladder being up on the 17th was told to LE via a phone call CA initiated to them specifically to advise them that she remembers this incident.

Does anybody have the links that substantiate the above? There is a large enough time gap between June 17 and June 25 to cause one to wonder why. Also the date CA called LE to report her recall is significant. Anything discussed beyond that would be to clarify or update the earliest report I would think.

So far Mark F. reports that the pool ladder being up was noticed on June 17th in the morning. It's not clear who MF gathered that info from (obviously CA or GA but he didn't say who told him that during his report on Gretta).

I know I heard CA report that they ladder and gate incidence was noticed on June 17th in the evening.

The above is the first descrepancy I'm sure of. I can't find where GA is claiming the later ladder/gates dates.

BBM

I remember that statement too! Was it the GVS interview? That was one of the first interviews that showed us the house and around the pool area. I don't know where that video is now.....:waitasec:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Debbie Bennett Interview with LE....Pool Discussion on page 13. States that a few days before the gas can incident that CA told her that she came home and let the dogs out and was worried they would get out.
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/18974353/detail.html[/quote]

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/18974353/detail.html

sleutherontheside, I'm going to type out the conversation as this is significant - great find. Page 13 and 14. Yuri talking to Debbie B. who is CA's coworker at Gentiva. Interview on November 24, 2008.

Y - Did she seek counseling in June or July?

DB - says she found out when the daughter had been gone a week or so and she was missing her daughter from that point on. And then the gas can situation, where she had thought someone swimming in her pool.

DB - I think that was around Father's Day I want to say, yeah. Ah...

Y - The gas can incident was...I'll tell you that that was the 23rd of June.

DB - Oh okay.

Y - So, that was right at the end of June.

DB - Okay

Y - You mentioned something about the pool and so I want to touch on that.

DB - Yeah. Yeah.

Y - You said she, she told you. . .

DB - She came into work that day and said that she thought someone was swimming in her pool. And I looked at her and said, that's what people do is swim in the pool. And she goes no you don't understand someone's been in the pool but I haven't been home. And I said what makes you think that? And she said she came home one day and I guess the side gate was open 'cause she lets her dogs out.

Y - Un-huh (affirmative)

DB - and I guess the dogs started to go out and she was worried she was gonna lose her dogs. And then um, the ladder was off the pool and it's an above ground pool. And she said she always takes the ladder off and puts it away from the pool so that the child doesn't get in the pool.

Y - When did this conversation take place in relationship to the gas can incident? Was it before or after do you remember?

DB - Before because then I found out I want to say that was one day and then a couple of days later then she came back and said someone's been in my yard again. Someone's been in our shed George is calling the police ..


Cindy tells Debbie the morning of June 23 about the gas cans because that was the day that GA called the police. Does that mean that the gas cans were noticed missing on June 22? Or did GA call CA at work and tell her this in the AM on the 23rd? (I know this has been sleuthed because KC shows up later at the house with the gas cans on the 23rd and it is believed that CA tipped KC off which doesn't make much sense to me). Did we ever determine how CA knew that the gas cans were missing considering she leaves for work early in the morning? Or is GA building a case/trail for yard invasion? Why did GA later report to LE how he found the cans in KC's trunk later that day on the 23rd but he never called LE to tell them that when he did.

The SIGNIFICANT thing is that Debbie was able to recall that the ladder/gate story took place BEFORE June 23rd which is consistent with what CA has reported. DB doesn't confirm the day as June 17 though. Debbie would have likely heard about the ladder on June 18 if the ladder/gate observation took place on June 17 as per CA. That would be a full week earlier than gas can day.* :waitasec:

*Noting, I'm happy Debbie recalls that the ladder incident took place BEFORE the gas can incident considering she is being asked questions about her conversations with Cindy five months after they took place.


ADDING: http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/files/george_anthony_burglary.pdf
I copied the above as it appears in the Docs. The gas can report is dated June 24, 2008. Proof as per linked copy here.