Cell Phone Activity Discussion Thread #2

[natsound]

But to try 5? Times to get on the web. When she could sit down and get on it first time. I don't get how that would make sense? Actually shouldnt she be able to use the web on her phone thru wifi on her home comp? And if so that means the phone wasn't in the house or close to it at that time right?

I assumed all five attempts were successful. Maybe they weren't.

The computer/web access thing doesn't make me bat an eye, because I know how our phones become extensions of our own hands sometimes.

 

[KsStormy]

BBM-I do too, justamommy. I try to be objective and unbiased but must admit I lean toward theories that support a happy outcome.

I do worry about the dumpster fire and the Missouri River, however.

I don't know if that dumpster fire could have completely destroyed a body or not. I doubt it.

Could Baby Lisa's body been dumped in the river? Perhaps. Bodies of water typically give up their dead, however. Everyday without a body makes me more optimistic that she's not in the river.

I just get the sense that the abductor handed the baby off to someone in the townhouse parking lot. They then stuck around for whatever reason. Perhaps to watch the mayhem. If that person didn't have the baby at that point then he/she may have felt that they could safely stick around.

All JMO.

The MO river is well known for dumping bodies. It's impossible to say where ANYTHING could be by now that was dumped in that river, last few times I've been by the river this past month it was flowing pretty darn FAST...... it eventually leads to the Mississippi in St Louis, is that correct?

 

[mck16]

But to try 5? Times to get on the web. When she could sit down and get on it first time. I don't get how that would make sense? Actually shouldnt she be able to use the web on her phone thru wifi on her home comp? And if so that means the phone wasn't in the house or close to it at that time right?

I often do that if I am checking FB. I use my phone and not my laptop. Much easier unless I am going to be on for a long period of time. Battery life and all. jmo

edited to add: I just remembered when I get a posting on FB, it send me a text message also. Does anyone know when anything was last posted to DB's FB?

 

[cindysue]

Does anyone remember if the attempted Internet use on Debs cell phone where successful or not?

 

[KsStormy]

Anyone know exactly what time JI left work? What is the probability the cell was used by the kidnapper(s) OR DB so close to him getting home, within a mile radius? How could she have successfully hid them & later discarded them? If LE were accusing her & suspicious of her from the beginning, wouldn't they have been watching her like a hawk? Of course, would have been SO easy to drive across the bridge, & toss them over into the river...

 

[askfornina]

Does anyone remember if the attempted Internet use on Debs cell phone where successful or not?

MK: And then the next phone record that evening shows that somebody attempted to call DB's voicemail at 3:17 and 3:22am?

JP: That is correct. Along with the fact that the internet browser was activated 5 times although from the records you can't tell exactly the time that the buttons were pushed to search the internet.

MK: so was the internet successfully accessed, do we know?

JP: I believe so. I don't believe that there would be a record of it.

MK: Okay, so are the feds telling you what, if anything was searched if something was searched?

JP: No, that wasn't discussed when we were there. We actually saw the phone records, we saw the ping records as well, and that part was not discussed.

crystal clear, isn't it?

 

[askfornina]

Anyone know exactly what time JI left work? What is the probability the cell was used by the kidnapper(s) OR DB so close to him getting home, within a mile radius? How could she have successfully hid them & later discarded them? If LE were accusing her & suspicious of her from the beginning, wouldn't they have been watching her like a hawk? Of course, would have been SO easy to drive across the bridge, & toss them over into the river...

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15940122/source-says-4-hour-window-for-abduction

Police have been able to verify that Irwin was at the Starbucks until about 3:30 a.m. and nothing unusual occurred.

Irwin returned to his home about 3:45 a.m.

 

[In da Middle]

Anyone know exactly what time JI left work? What is the probability the cell was used by the kidnapper(s) OR DB so close to him getting home, within a mile radius? How could she have successfully hid them & later discarded them? If LE were accusing her & suspicious of her from the beginning, wouldn't they have been watching her like a hawk? Of course, would have been SO easy to drive across the bridge, & toss them over into the river...

Driving across Chouteau bridge and tossing the phones would not be all that easy. There is a wide walkway/bicycle lane along both sides that all 3 phones would have to clear along with not being caught by casino and/or truck traffic. Plus this would have to be the driver (if by herself) throwing across the passenger side AND clearing the walk lane AND getting all 3 phones to clear all of this. Slowing down on the 435 bridge would be suicide. It is a very busy 65 mph highway.

 

[Shelby2]

Didn't she say the phones were on the counter charging? Were the chargers taken as well? If not, wouldn't there be prints somewhere on the charger?

 

[indepmo]

Cell phone pinging could be the best leads to solving this case.
There have been many cases where technology can solve a crime or help lead to evidence in a case, and in some situations even a victim. Most of the time, cyber related crimes are the one's solved using technology, but there have been a few cases I have seen where a cell phone ping can lead to recovering a cell phone, and even a the recovery of a person.
Three missing cell phones from the Irwin residence appear to be one of the key elements in the missing Lisa Irwin case. There are too many possible theories of who may have made a phone call, or who the intended recipient was.

One piece of evidence law enforcement has that the public does not, are the cell phone triangulation ping records. They know more about all three of the stolen cell phone’s activities between 11:57pm and 3:32am. Furthermore, by now they should be quite familiar with all of the incoming and outgoing activity on Megan Wright’s phone that night as well.
The only knowledge the general public has to date regarding the cell phone pings are from John Picerno, the local Kansas City attorney representing Jeremy Irwin and Deborah Bradley along side of their New York based attorney Joe Tacopina. In an interview with Fox News' Megyn Kelly, Picerno told Kelly that the ping records for the phone used to make a phone call at 11:57pm showed it was never more than one-fifth of a mile to one-third of a mile from the Irwin home.
Looking back at the Casey Anthony trial, cell phone records were used to track her cell phone. There are copies of the records online, and when I reviewed them some of the information I could see was latitude and longitude coordinates. Most of them were the same, but even the different one's seemed to be seconds apart from one another if not just by a minute. What I found interesting about the lat/long data when entering one of them into Google earth or Google Maps was the fact that it took you to a cell phone tower where the signal was most likely bouncing off of for that particular call or text, not to a residential area or proximity where someone would be using the phone.
Examples from the Casey Anthony data you can put into http://maps.google.com
28.5028444 -81.2863333
28.4547222 -81.2636111
28.5444 -81.2767472
28.5653389 -81.2958381
28.5993583 -81.30325
I've personally never seen a cell phone triangulation map or even know exactly how triangulation pinging works. I wish one of the news agencies covering cases involving missing persons would bring in an expert to discuss it. In the Lisa Irwin case, if these cell phones pinged all the way from the Irwin residence south to the river as Picerno stated, I have questions in regards to that. Would that mean that once the cell phones left the residence by whatever means, they went in a southern direction? Can law enforcement determine that the 11:57pm phone call was made from the residence based on previous pinging activity when someone would send or receive a call or data at that residence? Can it be determined if someone went a half block away from the home and made that phone call? Where were these phones between 11:57pm and 3:32am? Did they move?

I have compiled a list I would like to ask one of these experts.
I've even begged Kimster to see if it would be possible to find an expert on triangulation pinging to maybe slip into websleuths radio, because triangulation pinging has been a key role for some cases in the past, and probably the future.

How often does a cell phone ping, and does it require incoming or outgoing activity for a ping to take place?

Do all cell phones ping, even pre-paid phones?

With triangulation pinging, can I leave my residence and walk 1 mile to the south and there be a record indicating my direction of travel?

If I stayed at home from Friday night until Monday morning, can triangulation pinging determine I never left the residence?

Would simply removing the battery from most phones disable the ability to ping a phone?

Does removing the sim card from a phone disable the ability to ping a phone?

 

[indepmo]

Driving across Chouteau bridge and tossing the phones would not be all that easy. There is a wide walkway/bicycle lane along both sides that all 3 phones would have to clear along with not being caught by casino and/or truck traffic. Plus this would have to be the driver (if by herself) throwing across the passenger side AND clearing the walk lane AND getting all 3 phones to clear all of this. Slowing down on the 435 bridge would be suicide. It is a very busy 65 mph highway.

I'm going to test your theory late tomorrow night on 435 with three half ears of corn. I have to pick a friend up from the airport at 12:30am. Something you can see on google earth or maps when going to street view on 435 on top of the river, all that is there is a 36" tall concrete barrier and nothing else. Another important thing to remember is 435 at 3:30am is a ghost town with very light traffic. I agree with the Chouteau bridge info though. Long toss and an iron railing on top of the 36" concrete barrier + bike lane.

 

[In da Middle]

My understanding of the pings is that the phone has to be without battery (taken out or dead battery) for it NOT to ping. Simply powering the phone off is like most newer tv's. Even though it is turned "off" it is still drawing power until it is unplugged. If it is still able to draw power, it is pinging.

 

[In da Middle]

I'm going to test your theory late tomorrow night on 435 with three half ears of corn. I have to pick a friend up from the airport at 12:30am. Something you can see on google earth or maps when going to street view on 435 on top of the river, all that is there is a 36" tall concrete barrier and nothing else. Another important thing to remember is 435 at 3:30am is a ghost town with very light traffic. I agree with the Chouteau bridge info though. Long toss and an iron railing on top of the 36" concrete barrier + bike lane.

good idea!
To expand on the 435 idea, we also have to remember she only had like 15 minutes or so to make this trip. That means turning around at Front street which had major construction going on at that very intersection at the time. The bridge also has traffic cams and I believe there are also cameras at the Front street intersection.

 

[Sparklin]

The texts I can understand, but I think LE is able to get the content of vm's, since vm's are stored at a central location, not the phone itself. Also, cell records (detailed ones) would be able to tell if text messages were sent or not. You just wouldn't get the content.

We haven't heard anything about there being records of texts being sent. It may be there and not disclosed but so far, haven't heard anything, just about the call and vm attempts.

There was a rumour originally regarding a text, but that was it.

Does anyone know where the 50 seconds came from? Who told us that originally? I thought it was MW and the lawyer said it the other day when discussing with MK no?? Since MW messed up the time (or was misinformed about the time) how do we even know it was 50 seconds for sure?

 

[Sparklin]

I don't think they did an extensive search of the house those first few days though, Jaxson. They couldn't, without a search warrant. Those phones could have been hidden in that house.

but the parents gave them permission to search the house immediately.

 

[Sparklin]

Does anyone remember if the attempted Internet use on Debs cell phone where successful or not?

When asked, the lawyer said 'we believe so'....take it for what it's worth lol

 

[indepmo]

good idea!
To expand on the 435 idea, we also have to remember she only had like 15 minutes or so to make this trip. That means turning around at Front street which had major construction going on at that very intersection at the time. The bridge also has traffic cams and I believe there are also cameras at the Front street intersection.

True, but then again, what if it were "he" or multiple parties. The fact is, we don't know.

 

[Cazzie]

But that would be a really gutsy thing to do when they could have been found by JI or LE at any point before she was able to remove them permanently. And why not get rid of them when she got rid of the baby? At what point would she have realized they were potential evidence? After she got rid of Pumpkin Pie? I have been gone a few days so I am coming into this almost blind but trying to catch up so forgive me if this has been addressed in your theory already. With all the attention from LE and media watching along with JI when would she have the opportunity to be alone, unwatched and unsupervised for a long enough period to hide them so well when she can't drive?

I haven't seen any explanation about her not being able to drive.

Maybe not legally, IDK. Altho I recall reading something about a possible suspended driver's license. No link handy.

IF she "knows how" to drive, and she surely had access to the family car (keys), she may have driven somewhere that day/nite.

It's hard to imagine a stay-at-home mom of 2 (and mother-figure to 1) not driving. How did she get the kids to doctor/dentist appt's, school functions, after-school activities? I think the school may be within walking distance, but still? How did she get to pre-natal care visits before Lisa was born, and other doctor/dentist visits for herself?

It's also hard to imagine that JI took off work to be legal family chauffeur for all of that.

You do what you have to do...she may have driven illegally for much of that stuff. Just speculation.

ETA: Don't know what PN's daily availability was...perhaps he chauffered for all of that, and not just the wine/baby wipes run. Or maybe SB and other friends helped with such.

 

[RANCH]

but the parents gave them permission to search the house immediately.

Apparently it's the belief of some that LE won't do a through search without a search warrant. I think that being given permission to search by the home owner would make it easier for LE to make a through search. They wouldn't be restricted by the search warrant on what they are searching for in the house. JMO

 

[Sparklin]

I haven't seen any explanation about her not being able to drive.

Maybe not legally, IDK. Altho I recall reading something about a possible suspended driver's license. No link handy.

IF she "knows how" to drive, and she surely had access to the family car (keys), she may have driven somewhere that day/nite.

It's hard to imagine a stay-at-home mom of 2 (and mother-figure to 1) not driving. How did she get the kids to doctor/dentist appt's, school functions, after-school activities? I think the school may be within walking distance, but still? How did she get to pre-natal care visits before Lisa was born, and other doctor/dentist visits for herself?

It's also hard to imagine that JI took off work to be legal family chauffeur for all of that.

You do what you have to do...she may have driven illegally for much of that stuff. Just speculation.

I read (no link) that it had something to do with her insurance??

I know a TON of moms that don't drive and never have. My sister in law was 35 with two teen boys when I taught her to drive. I can't imagine it, but many people manage.

I can't see Deb driving anywhere that night. Driving with her baby daughters body, without a license, leaving the boys to possibly wake up and start screaming for her, Jeremy to come home, and....drunk or at least (for those that don't think she was) .. tipsy just doesn't seem to register with me at all.